SIDEBAR #8- Arias/Alexander forum

[my_tee_mouse]

I think people throw around the word "abuse" too easily. If anyone used such words on me, I would walk away or hang up and never speak to them again. It is ugly, angry and inappropriate. Travis should have simply never spoken to jodi again instead of using such language. But abuse? No.

I work with victims and perpetrators of abuse routinely, in connection with domestic violence litigation. Emotional abuse generally consists of threats, stalking, surveillance. None of what Travis has been proven to have done would get jodi a restraining order.

Of course, if he did that as part of a pattern of conduct that included some other factors, such as getting in her face while screaming in a threatening manner throwing things or breaking things while saying such horrible things, that's abuse.

But even if he talked like that on a continuous basis, which starts to get close to the actionable abuse realm, jodi would have been unable to get a restraining order against Travis without something more.

Of course I'm going by the legal definitions of abuse, not the psychological ones. But I find psychology to be very nebulous and without too many specific lines. Thus in psychology, if it "feels" abusive, it is abuse. And if you go with that definition for abuse, anything can be considered abusive: "He refused to pick up my calls after we just had sex. It made me feel uncomfortable and used." Eg.

BBM: Actually, if a client came in my door and announced he/she felt they were being abused, I would carefully examine the reasons they felt they were being abused because feeling put-upon, abused, and used can be indicative of an underlying personality disorder, schizophrenia, etc. Of course, I would also delve deeply into any specific/perceived instances of the abuse to try and determine if abuse was truly taking place.

Yes, there are psychological/counseling theories that go along the lines of, "If you feel it, it is," but they are not very popular anymore. These days counseling and psychology have turned to more practical means (thank goodness).

 

[ElleElle]

Very true about the pics
The idea that she could have swapped memory cards has been disproven. The exit info on the memory card shows exactly what camera each shot was taken with, and all the data about that photo, shutter speed, whether or not flash was used, etc. All photos were taken with Travis's camera, and at the times indicated on the timestamps

No. imo (and i'm in IT) is that she did not swap the memory cards because Travis had a Sony and they take their own specialized cards and also date/time is hard-coded.

Why were deleted and washed with bleach? That still boggles my mind as to why Jodi did that. Why didn't she take the camera with her too? Did she plant it?

I think the killing did not go according to plan A, and plan B took alot of effort and Jodi had to get out of there before the roomates came home.

She cleaned up in a haste and "lost" the camera and I bet she looked for it.

That's why she wanted go by the house during Travis' memorial. imo

 

[mollyf]

[video=youtube;Vi2TIV3rYzc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi2TIV3rYzc[/video]

 

[Tenaciousdae]

Juror 6 is going to be on DD again! I wish she could be called as an expert...just saying. I think she's demonstrated being a good voice of reason, something we haven't heard in a long time.

 

[Sleuth5]

Jeremy Hillary Boob, Ph.D.

Lord, I haven't seen that for 30 years. LOL :floorlaugh:

 

[beach]

Ok y'all I really wasn't kidding when I suggested having a devoted thread for all the juror comments. Can we get a mod to create one???

Oh Beach ........

You called? . Actually, it's been you and about 25 others. :iamashamed: So sorry, y'all. My offline life has been speeding along like a race car on the last laps of the Indy 500 and I've all but crashed. Promise to have it opened either tonight or first thing in the morning. (typing from my phone, need to get home or work on a computer)

 

[Lissa]

One would think he would not touch her with a 10 foot pole after that.
Ok. I think that!

Still shaking my head about that.

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

I know! It plagues me. Why, why did he interact with her on June 4th after everything she put him through? He was so angry and he seemed to see right through her on May 26.

 

[gngr~snap]

I am not sure she ever felt "abused". She played the victim,but not very well IMO.
I kinda think it was all a game to her and it should have been on her terms. TA broke the rules... when he refused to play along.

MOO

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ElleElle]

It really bugs me with the Foreman even considering the email had any bearing whatsoever because there was no corroborating evidence that Travis was phsyically abusive to her in any way.

For all we know they both exchanged mean words at times in emails and it could just be how they interracted when feuding verbally. We of course would not see any emails from Jodi side of things because she deleted them.

The words were mean, sure, but they are just words and for all we know she may have been due those words and much more depending on what she did to him to invoke that kind of reaction.

It is very upsetting to think the foreman even considered that email as any reason at all to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Even if Jodi deleted the emails, they can still get access to them because they can extract those files.

Remember - Jodi's hard drive on her computer got destroyed somehow before the Flores investigation I believe? Maybe someone can confirm that?
Ot, the court might have it "sealed"? Something like that anyway.

 

[TexMex]

No. imo (and i'm in IT) is that she did not swap the memory cards because Travis had a Sony and they take their own specialized cards and also date/time is hard-coded.

Why were deleted and washed with bleach? That still boggles my mind as to why Jodi did that. Why didn't she take the camera with her too? Did she plant it?

I think the killing did not go according to plan A, and plan B took alot of effort and Jodi had to get out of there before the roomates came home.

She cleaned up in a haste and "lost" the camera and I bet she looked for it.

That's why she wanted go by the house during Travis' memorial. imo

But Flores had already told her over the phone about the camera...except he told her it was too damaged to recover any pictures.

 

[daisymae]

Andrea Sneiderman clip coming up on Dr. Drew now, and probably a repeat later tonight.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

iirc, in one of the interrogation interviews, JA herself says Travis sold her a car with "like the easiest payment terms ever"....this is when she was going on and on about what a great guy he was (so, she is truthful at times)

Was this during the "I wasn't there" phase or the "ninjas did it" phase, perhaps? In other words, did she tell the truth when "showing" that she thought that Travis was a wonderful guy would "help prove" that she didn't kill him? I think Miss Arias tells the truth only when the truth helps her.

 

[seguek9]

I have seen such passion/obsession/tenacity with so many of you about the JA case...I hope some of you will use your skills as sleuthers to help on other cases as well....they may not be in the MSM but are equally important. Please take the time to explore the WS site *beyond* the scope of jodi/Travis...

Thanks!!! :seeya:

This case needs help http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209907

 

[polleypockets]

Exactly. IMO, she had mutliple motives but not the least of which was the typical "If I cant have him, then nobody would".

Once she got that email, she realized he no longer wanted her in his life, so she set out to kill him.

When she arrived at his place, I am convinced it was a complete surprise to him and I bet she brought along a copy of the tape and offered that as a token of her sinceredness for him to delete it once and for all.

That gave her the "in" to his house. Little did he know, she had another copy of it back in CA.

As far as the pictures on the camera, I often wonder if she gave him a memory card directly from her camera and showed him all the pictures on his camera to delete them in front of him to prove there was no more sex photos or tape videos. There is something about those bedroom pics that make me think they were taken much earlier and came from her camera memory card.
I am not sure if we ever saw date time stamps on those particular ones.

The dated photos of the shower scene pics could have been her just trying to document the actual murder, and I always wonder if he wasnt aware of her taking them until that very last one where he looks shocked.

it had jodis new hair color she got on her way to mesa, so they had to be taken that day imo

 

[Ammonitida]

I personally think Jodi left Travis' house after she realized that there was no getting back together and no trip to cancun and he asked her to leave. I think she went to Mesa with the plan that she was going to murder him if he didn't take her back. He didn't take her back, so she put her plan into action. I think she left the house, and then came back in the bathroom and suprised him, thus the look in his eyes in that haunting picture once he realized she was in the bathroom. Either way, first degree, premeditated murder and I'm SO thankful the jury got that verdict right as well as finding the aggravator of extreme cruelty..thank god for this as this could have gone the other way completely....(flash backs of that trial in florida 2 years ago...)

Disagree. Jodi was going to murder him and she had no intention on changing her mind. She hesitated for many reasons, one being the roommate Zack who had a day off on June 4th and his whereabouts had been unpredictable throughout the day. He in fact stayed at the house until 11:30AM and returned a few hours later, only to leave and return again in a very short time frame. I believe that during her hesitation, she gave in to sex and did not enjoy it. But she attempted to erase this mistake with the shower ruse which had Travis clean off her nasty DNA from his body and get him vulnerable for the ambush. She had only 30 minutes left before Cortez was due to pull up in that driveway and stay there for the whole night. She had to act fast and she did. Her clean-up was pretty good under the circumstances. Just the camera and hard-to-see palm print did her in.

Edit -- it is not known when Zack left the house to return his rental car, but he did come back at 3:00PM and left again at 4PM.

 

[elementary]

Yes, but why would someone call one these names and continue to string them along by having sex with them....? 'just asking, don't shoot lol

In court it came out in a text that Travis was afraid of her. It is not beyond belief that he tried to appease his abuser as the abused are wont to do.

 

[seguek9]

You called? . Actually, it's been you and about 25 others. :iamashamed: So sorry, y'all. My offline life has been speeding along like a race car on the last laps of the Indy 500 and I've all but crashed. Promise to have it opened either tonight or first thing in the morning. (typing from my phone, need to get home or work on a computer)

Thank you Beach :loveyou:

 

[Mollyandme]

I know! It plagues me. Why, why did he interact with her on June 4th after everything she put him through? He was so angry and he seemed to see right through her on May 26.

i still cannot wrap my head around this. I personally don't believe he knew she was coming but I know that's a hot topic. I think he appeased her to try to get her to leave because nothing else was working. She is a psychotic, abusive stalker and needs to be put away forever (or given the needle which would be better imo).

 

[Tenaciousdae]

No. imo (and i'm in IT) is that she did not swap the memory cards because Travis had a Sony and they take their own specialized cards and also date/time is hard-coded.

Why were deleted and washed with bleach? That still boggles my mind as to why Jodi did that. Why didn't she take the camera with her too? Did she plant it?

I think the killing did not go according to plan A, and plan B took alot of effort and Jodi had to get out of there before the roomates came home.

She cleaned up in a haste and "lost" the camera and I bet she looked for it.

That's why she wanted go by the house during Travis' memorial. imo

Somebody pointed out to mr that she most likely washed the camera to get her bloody paw prints / DNA off.:seeya:

 

[marlap]

Juror six is on Dr Drew right now by phone

She says the jurors are all e- mailing each other, making sure each other are okay, and plan to get together at some point