Sidney Moorer pretrial hearing - 18 April 2016

[Madeleine74]

She may not have known it was a payphone she was calling back. She probably just hit the 'return call' button in the call log. Then when there was no answer for some reason she thought it ok to call his cell phone (I agree this is puzzling).

 

[stillwatersc]

I'm still trying to understand why she called a pay phone thinking he didn't have his cell, then called the cell and risked TM being right there or even answering it.

She didn't know it was a payphone? I think a WS'er tested calling from a payphone and it just said AT&T or something like that. I doubt SM would have told her he was calling from a payphone. Heather waited 45 minutes between trying to call the payphone and trying SM's cell. She didn't know how else to contact him & since he "left the MRS", she risked the call. MOO

 

[bamcaan]

Okay. I haven't commented on this case since forever, but let me throw my thoughts in here. Everyone is assuming that this affair ended the end of October, when Tammy found out about it. Judging from Heather's texts, the affair WAS over, in HER mind. But what I haven't seen addressed very much is the possibility that in Sidney's mind, it wasn't over.

I think SM was still actively pursuing her whenever he got the chance. Whether in person at her job or just "running into" her, I would wager a guess that she was used to getting calls from SM in the early morning hours during their relationship, either from his cell (before TM took it) or from whatever establishment he was working that particular night. Not all calls are identified on Caller ID, and if this WAS there pattern she would have called him back at the pay phone number, perhaps not recognizing the number. Perhaps he wanted her to meet him at PTL at a certain time, after he finished that night's job. Maybe she told him she would have to think about it. Hence, the call to Bri, who told her to not give up how far she'd come and to sleep on it. Without an agreement to meet him SM went home. Obviously she changed her mind about meeting him (who knows...Closure, maybe?), thinking that SM was on his way to or already at the landing and that's what started the calls from her. First to the pay phone, then to his cell.

And enter...Tammy. Sees who's on the phone and realizes that the affair is still going on in some form or another. Maybe she really did think that it was Heather pursuing SM, not knowing that SM was the one that initiated contact. That IMO could help explain her complete rage at her. If she overheard the call that was answered at their house and heard HE tell SM she was on her way to him, I have no doubt that she forced him to follow through, with her along for the ride. When HE got to PTL and SM wasn't there, she tried contacting him over and over until the Ms arrived.

I don't think TM was having SM followed. She wouldn't put the money out for it. And she may have gone to work with him a time or two, but she's too lazy and doesn't have the discipline to do so every time. He was out alone in the wee hours when the men tried to shoot him, wasn't he? And if she really was handcuffing him, well, that wouldn't let her stop him from going to work. He had to support her, didn't he?

I don't think they were out screwing around in their vehicle that night. That's a face-saving lie from TM to try to show she was still desireable IMO. I think SM was out earning that Disney money for her and took advantage of the time to try to woo HE back. Was the timing coincidental? Was SM following HE? IDK. And unless evidence shows differently at trial, I don't think TM was with him that night.....not until that truck left for PTL.

I think SM started it that night and TM finished it. JMO

 

[jillycat]

She didn't know it was a payphone? I think a WS'er tested calling from a payphone and it just said AT&T or something like that. I doubt SM would have told her he was calling from a payphone. Heather waited 45 minutes between trying to call the payphone and trying SM's cell. She didn't know how else to contact him & since he "left the MRS", she risked the call. MOO

The point is that whether it was a pay phone or any other phone, it wasn't his phone. I can't imagine that she wouldn't have been surprised to find that he was on the other end of a phone number she didn't recognize and that she didn't ask why. And I don't think we know to what extent she believed he left TM. And suddenly needed to share that from a phone that wasn't his. At that hour. Essentially right after she returned from a date. And then they needed to meet at PTL when they were relatively close in proximity already.

 

[meinmyrtlebeach]

Some discussion as to WHY at 2am. Remember, he worked many nights on different establishments. She was 19 or 20 and kept late hours. My 19 year old will be up til 2 or 3am every night, and not wake up until noon when not working. My thoughts are that 2am was NORMAL for when they met or he called or she called. Seems rather normal to me. Plus, thats when he was safe to talk without the MRS around. Much like a usual married man might only be able to talk during the day when he's at work, SM's work occured late at night in my opinion.

Bamcaam...your thoughts mirror mine almost exactly. Well said.

 

[New2MB]

I posted this a LONG time ago, but will give my thoughts/theory again. I think SM's intent that night, wasn't to "lure" her, or anything bad. I think he had been "good" for a while since TM had his phone or at least he knew she was checking it, so he wasn't able to contact HE that night using his cell. So my theory is that he was out working and was finished and thought perhaps he'd give a quick call to HE and see if he could convince her to see him again. Probably thinking he could get laid or whatever. That's why the payphone(which would probably have been in between his work that night and his home and Heather's apt. Now, it seems to me that he called her and she said no initially. Or she said let me think. Either way, she then called Bri. Then at some point(I think it was 10 or 20 minutes after his initial call) she calls the payphone back. No answer. So she then calls his cell(not knowing that he has either arrived home now, or that TM actually has his phone)

From what I remember, it wasn't answered at first, but eventually after a call or two from her to SM's phone, it was answered and a 4 minute phone call ensued. I believe that TM MADE him answer that call, and MADE him tell her to meet at PTL. It appears from her phone pings that she then headed to PTL, as did the M's from the video evidence we've seen. She arrived first. Called him a couple times probably to say "I'm here, where are you?" etc.

Eventually, he shows up, she locks her car up and takes her keys and her phone, and jumps in the passenger side of the truck. TM is sitting in the back seat of the truck ducking down, and as soon as the door is closed she reaches up and somehow strangles hurts her neck. This won't hardly leave any DNA in the truck. No gunshot to hear. No knife to try to clean up blood/dna.

This seems the most plausible and explains the phone calls perfectly in my opinion. The only problem I have is these two don't seem bright enough to do the perfect crime, so how in the world did they then go and put her body somewhere that it couldn't be found. The only way it seems possible is that they panicked and placed her body into a dumpster that was then picked up unknowingly the following day or so and dumped at the landfill. I know there are so many trucks dumping each day there, that by the time a week or two later when they began searching, the landfill would have been completely dumped over and over again on top of previous loads.

Does any of that make sense? Or am I missing something?

This is what makes sense to me too. I can't help but think about all of the local talk of searching sewage tanks in yards- I'm guessing there would be no evidence then. A dumpster could be the answer too.

 

[cujenn81]

My opinion is TM found out he was really leaving her that night. She had locked down everything to find out what he was doing. Or they were freaks with sex and both enjoyed what was taking place. It's possible considering SM is following suit. gulp They are an odd couple with very odd tastes to me, & just their actions are odd. Hopefully, the trial will make more sense.

I agree about the oddness of both of them. And one of SM's texts to TM's sister has bothered and disturbed me since the state revealed it at their first bond hearing. I don't remember the exacting wording but he said something like... "I know I really messed up choosing someone who was so f&$*^+ up..."

His use of the word "choosing" is what has really bothered me. For what purpose was she "chosen"? To serve as his mistress? To spice up their bedroom? To be a pawn... to be kidnapped... to be murdered in some sick, twisted game?

Oh, Heather... where, oh where, are you girl?

 

[Madeleine74]

Some discussion as to WHY at 2am. Remember, he worked many nights on different establishments. She was 19 or 20 and kept late hours. My 19 year old will be up til 2 or 3am every night, and not wake up until noon when not working. My thoughts are that 2am was NORMAL for when they met or he called or she called. Seems rather normal to me. Plus, thats when he was safe to talk without the MRS around. Much like a usual married man might only be able to talk during the day when he's at work, SM's work occured late at night in my opinion.

I hope they show the phone logs for both of them at trial to show the pattern of their contact.

 

[brandalous]

I'm going to <snip> the quotes I'm responding to, for the sake of space. Just a head's up because I know it bothers some users when it's not pointed out.

Looks like the M's had a Q&A last night on the WBTW FB page. :facepalm:

I love that literally everyone not buying their story(stories) is "lying on" them. Her mother has been all over that very public post, insisting that she's defending her family. To my eyes, she's making them look much worse. They aren't doing themselves any favors, either.

His crocodile teared, "if I confess, there's still a murderer out there!" (not a direct quote) brought to mind Patsy Ramsey's, "hug your babies; there's a killer on the loose!" (also not a direct quote).

The next part of my post is in response to both of these comments:

<snipped>Even if we account for her being so frightened that she did what she was told, did she have the presence of mind to gather her purse and phone, get out, lock the car, then hop into the tool box or the cab, leaving no trace of having been in the truck? Or did one of the M's grab her possessions from the car, have the presence of mind to lock it (why?) and not leave a trace of evidence that there was an encounter at/in the car? That was one fast and smooth transition by both the M's and Heather.

I just think there's a chunk of the story that's missing and the perceived chain of events is not quite what happened. And the answer to 'Where is Heather?' is wrapped up in that somewhere. JMO

<snipped>As for where she is, she's where she'll never be found because, in my view, this was planned and they had help.

I have wondered if they did have the help of a third party; one with a boat or car waiting for her arrival... A trusted family member or a friend who would be quiet for the right amount of cash.

 

[spiritseeker31]

Do we KNOW they were doing that other than the "alibi" that they tried to offer the police by SAYING they were doing that? I didn't see if it was confirmed there were pictures, or if this was just what the TOLD LE to try to create an alibi?

Yes! This is something I've always believed!

 

[Surfside]

I believe it was that same evening that SM & TM were driving around and having sex in their car and taking photos of this. That would change the story as TM would have been around and SM wouldn't have been at work or at work late. We know Heather was on a date and learning to drive a stick shift (per her last photo & email to her father that night) and she got home right before 2am.

One of the IE charges was from Broadway at the Beach, where the Tilted Kilt was, and very near the infamous payphone. I always imagined the two were out having drunken sex and stopped into TK. Maybe there, one or both found out about Heather's date, and from that info, or SM's reaction to it, a fight ensued. Tammy abandoned Sidney in a fit of rage, so he walked to the phone to call Heather. I don't know why, but I just feel like that's what happened.

The rest, I constantly change my thoughts on. Currently, I'm thinking he genuinely decided he was done with TM. At some point, Tammy came back around, and he went home with her, since Heather didn't rush to pick him up and live happily ever after with him. I'm thinking he was handcuffed to the bed when Heather started calling his phone. TM may have even left him there, handcuffed, and taken a third party to meet Heather at the landing in SM's truck. I don't know. My head is spinning, but I'm trying to think of every possible scenario.

 

[ohiobuckeyegirl]

BBM:
HaHaHa, carnies!!! :floorlaugh:
They are the new carnies because the old carnies don't have chiclet teeth.

Carnies have jobs. The M's don't.

 

[ohiobuckeyegirl]

I think he really wanted to leave T. Look at her craziness. Who would want to stay with someone like that? He probably escaped from the handcuffs and called H. Tam somehow found him or followed him to PTL and probably had the famous gun with her. I don't think he had anything to do with a murder. I think it was all her and he was probably just as shocked as H. I believe he is scared to death of T because he knows she will kill him and or the kids. I would put nothing past her to make him pay. Especially after their day in court yesterday. I can only imagine what was said in their house after court. Can you even imagine her rage towards him with the reality now that she may really go to prison? No more Facebook, Photoshop, fashion, rock stars, or Disney days. My, oh my. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall.

 

[stillwatersc]

I think he really wanted to leave T. Look at her craziness. Who would want to stay with someone like that? He probably escaped from the handcuffs and called H. Tam somehow found him or followed him to PTL and probably had the famous gun with her. I don't think he had anything to do with a murder. I think it was all her and he was probably just as shocked as H. I believe he is scared to death of T because he knows she will kill him and or the kids. I would put nothing past her to make him pay. Especially after their day in court yesterday. I can only imagine what was said in their house after court. Can you even imagine her rage towards him with the reality now that she may really go to prison? No more Facebook, Photoshop, fashion, rock stars, or Disney days. My, oh my. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall.

I think only Sidney will go to prison - Sidney's affair; Sidney's phone call & lies to LE; Sidney's truck on video. IDK if there is any evidence against TM other than harrassing texts. On the way out of court, out of all the things TM could say in that 30 seconds - chose to discuss HER car. :underbus:

 

[lstiff]

"I know I really messed up choosing someone who was so f&$*^+ up..."

Maybe he is talking about his wife?

Some discussion as to WHY at 2am. Remember, he worked many nights on different establishments. She was 19 or 20 and kept late hours. My 19 year old will be up til 2 or 3am every night, and not wake up until noon when not working. My thoughts are that 2am was NORMAL for when they met or he called or she called. Seems rather normal to me. Plus, thats when he was safe to talk without the MRS around. Much like a usual married man might only be able to talk during the day when he's at work, SM's work occured late at night in my opinion.
Bamcaam...your thoughts mirror mine almost exactly. Well said.

Agree with all of this!!!

Okay. I haven't commented on this case since forever, but let me throw my thoughts in here. Everyone is assuming that this affair ended the end of October, when Tammy found out about it. Judging from Heather's texts, the affair WAS over, in HER mind. But what I haven't seen addressed very much is the possibility that in Sidney's mind, it wasn't over.
I think SM was still actively pursuing her whenever he got the chance. Whether in person at her job or just "running into" her, I would wager a guess that she was used to getting calls from SM in the early morning hours during their relationship, either from his cell (before TM took it) or from whatever establishment he was working that particular night. Not all calls are identified on Caller ID, and if this WAS there pattern she would have called him back at the pay phone number, perhaps not recognizing the number. Perhaps he wanted her to meet him at PTL at a certain time, after he finished that night's job. Maybe she told him she would have to think about it. Hence, the call to Bri, who told her to not give up how far she'd come and to sleep on it. Without an agreement to meet him SM went home. Obviously she changed her mind about meeting him (who knows...Closure, maybe?), thinking that SM was on his way to or already at the landing and that's what started the calls from her. First to the pay phone, then to his cell.

And enter...Tammy. Sees who's on the phone and realizes that the affair is still going on in some form or another. Maybe she really did think that it was Heather pursuing SM, not knowing that SM was the one that initiated contact. That IMO could help explain her complete rage at her. If she overheard the call that was answered at their house and heard HE tell SM she was on her way to him, I have no doubt that she forced him to follow through, with her along for the ride. When HE got to PTL and SM wasn't there, she tried contacting him over and over until the Ms arrived.

I don't think TM was having SM followed. She wouldn't put the money out for it. And she may have gone to work with him a time or two, but she's too lazy and doesn't have the discipline to do so every time. He was out alone in the wee hours when the men tried to shoot him, wasn't he? And if she really was handcuffing him, well, that wouldn't let her stop him from going to work. He had to support her, didn't he?

I don't think they were out screwing around in their vehicle that night. That's a face-saving lie from TM to try to show she was still desireable IMO. I think SM was out earning that Disney money for her and took advantage of the time to try to woo HE back. Was the timing coincidental? Was SM following HE? IDK. And unless evidence shows differently at trial, I don't think TM was with him that night.....not until that truck left for PTL.

I think SM started it that night and TM finished it. JMO

I love the BBM part, never thought of it before you said it but it makes perfect sense and I agree 100% with the rest of what you said! Good post!!!

I posted this a LONG time ago, but will give my thoughts/theory again. I think SM's intent that night, wasn't to "lure" her, or anything bad. I think he had been "good" for a while since TM had his phone or at least he knew she was checking it, so he wasn't able to contact HE that night using his cell. So my theory is that he was out working and was finished and thought perhaps he'd give a quick call to HE and see if he could convince her to see him again. Probably thinking he could get laid or whatever. That's why the payphone(which would probably have been in between his work that night and his home and Heather's apt. Now, it seems to me that he called her and she said no initially. Or she said let me think. Either way, she then called Bri. Then at some point(I think it was 10 or 20 minutes after his initial call) she calls the payphone back. No answer. So she then calls his cell(not knowing that he has either arrived home now, or that TM actually has his phone)
From what I remember, it wasn't answered at first, but eventually after a call or two from her to SM's phone, it was answered and a 4 minute phone call ensued. I believe that TM MADE him answer that call, and MADE him tell her to meet at PTL. It appears from her phone pings that she then headed to PTL, as did the M's from the video evidence we've seen. She arrived first. Called him a couple times probably to say "I'm here, where are you?" etc.

Eventually, he shows up, she locks her car up and takes her keys and her phone, and jumps in the passenger side of the truck. TM is sitting in the back seat of the truck ducking down, and as soon as the door is closed she reaches up and somehow strangles hurts her neck. This won't hardly leave any DNA in the truck. No gunshot to hear. No knife to try to clean up blood/dna.

This seems the most plausible and explains the phone calls perfectly in my opinion. The only problem I have is these two don't seem bright enough to do the perfect crime, so how in the world did they then go and put her body somewhere that it couldn't be found. The only way it seems possible is that they panicked and placed her body into a dumpster that was then picked up unknowingly the following day or so and dumped at the landfill. I know there are so many trucks dumping each day there, that by the time a week or two later when they began searching, the landfill would have been completely dumped over and over again on top of previous loads.

Does any of that make sense? Or am I missing something?

Yes it makes sense! BBM that would fit the TL very well and makes a lot more sense then some of the theories out there.

*In all of the theories we have and are out there I still ask myself-If they were meeting up for any reason (talk/sex/closure) WHY wouldn't she just have him come to the apartment? She was there alone and like someone mentioned earlier, there seemed to be a sense of urgency for them both to get to PTL. What are we missing here?

 

[Madeleine74]

I think what we're missing is that maybe Sidney wasn't the smitten kitten only wanting to be with Heather that night. If Sidney really intended to *get away* from his crazy wife he could have jumped in his truck and just left, not make plans to meet Heather at PTL, not take Tammy with him in his truck, but instead figured out where he was going to be staying for the night since he was 'leaving' the crazy wife. If he felt threatened he wouldn't want to keep Tammy at his hip as he went about his night. If he was still in love with Heather, why lead Heather and his wife to each other, where Heather was most certainly in danger from "The Mrs?" Sidney's actions don't make sense because those actions don't match those of an innocent lovestruck man just hoping to see his beloved. He helped cause that meeting between Heather and "The Mrs."

 

[LBDunes]

One of the IE charges was from Broadway at the Beach, where the Tilted Kilt was, and very near the infamous payphone. I always imagined the two were out having drunken sex and stopped into TK. Maybe there, one or both found out about Heather's date, and from that info, or SM's reaction to it, a fight ensued. Tammy abandoned Sidney in a fit of rage, so he walked to the phone to call Heather. I don't know why, but I just feel like that's what happened.

The rest, I constantly change my thoughts on. Currently, I'm thinking he genuinely decided he was done with TM. At some point, Tammy came back around, and he went home with her, since Heather didn't rush to pick him up and live happily ever after with him. I'm thinking he was handcuffed to the bed when Heather started calling his phone. TM may have even left him there, handcuffed, and taken a third party to meet Heather at the landing in SM's truck. I don't know. My head is spinning, but I'm trying to think of every possible scenario.

BBM - There are so many possibilities to make your head spin. However, I take things piece by piece and this is how I get to the 'next dot':

* Payphone call = luring to PTL. It doesn't really matter if he was leaving his wife or whatever number of reasons for her being called to go to the landing. Payphone in this day and age, when you have a cell? That = nefarious.
* Call to HE's friend Bri, that was not anticipated. One big monkey wrench in whatever the plan was.
* SM lied about having contact w/ HE - that = nefarious.
* Phone records of communication between M's cell - it doesn't matter which one had control of the phone.
* Known video introduced in hearings of vehicle travelling to and from landing at that time of night in proximity to M home and boat landing.
* HE phone off the grid after being in the PTL area.
* A social media active young woman disappears w/o a trace.

So to me it's not really that complicated. I don't even try to figure out what exactly happened. I do feel more will come out at trial. The only thing that makes my head spin is the social media on this case. If you take that away thing are pretty clear - one or both of them is responsible for this. Unfortunately, I think the best chance of the conviction will be on SM, since they have him on video making the payphone call, lying about it and the video of HIS truck heading to the landing.

 

[stillwatersc]

**Theory**
Sidney is just a serial cheater whose wife found out (some rumor basis). That is what he meant by "choosing someone" - Heather was one of many. The problem with Heather was that she really cared about Sidney and she was very vocal on Social Media about it. Tammy may have suspected affairs before but this was the first one she could read all about. Heather Elvis was messing up TM's fakey Fantasy Land perfect life pretense. Tammy is obsessed with Social Media - to her it is more reality than real life is. This is a cray cray motive for murder but what we've seen from TM goes beyond sociopathy. Can the State have someone committed based on their FB posts!?

 

[jillycat]

SM may have been talking about TM. I remember when we discussed it in the past and the context of his remark seemed to point to her, not Heather. But who knows.

 

[Madeleine74]

Someone who makes threats for bodily harm or attempts to blackmail or other illegal activity on Facebook (or any social media platform) can be arrested, depending on what it is. For example, the 17 year old son of the arrested child killer in the Gabbi Doolin murder case made a series of threats towards LE on his Facebook, after his father was arrested. He was warned not to do that but he didn't stop and was arrested and charged. In his case these were specific threats aimed toward a specific target.