Socks? Was Jon Benet wearing them?

[SunnieRN]

Colorado is a ski town. Long johns are common under pants. Tights are for dresses. What do the other mothers in Boulder think??
The other part of the story that is not fitting for me is why would the FAO gift still be in the wine cellar and not under the tree, This was Christms night not Christmas eve. I find it suspect any gifts were still in WC/ basement. No reason to be.

The size 12 undies were to be a gift for Patsy's niece. There were still extended family gifts in the basement, that had been wrapped or were waiting to be wrapped. Not sure when they were to be given out?

 

[joeskidbeck]

I believe that Patsy had intended to mail the gifts to Atlanta, but expressed that she had just run out of time and would send the gifts when they got back from their trip. Absolutely no reason for those panties to have been opened. With all the gifts that she had wrapped at FAO Swartz, you can't make me believe they didn't tag the gifts so that she would know what was inside without opening them. I've always thought it strange that she had the most famous toy store in the world wrap panties as a Christmas gift anyway. What a let-down for her niece. Seeing the paper would automatically make her believe something neat was in the package. Maybe these panties from Bloomingdales would have been a big deal to her, but somehow I don't think so!

 

[Steely]

Colorado is a ski town. Long johns are common under pants. Tights are for dresses. What do the other mothers in Boulder think??
The other part of the story that is not fitting for me is why would the FAO gift still be in the wine cellar and not under the tree, This was Christms night not Christmas eve. I find it suspect any gifts were still in WC/ basement. No reason to be.

I totally agree with you about the gifts being suspect in the basement... especially "partially wrapped" could that be "partially unwrapped"????? When were they going to see the little girl that PR bought the bloomies for? Didn't the evidence list 3 partially wrapped presents? That made me wonder if the kids had sneaked in before Christmas and then sneaked in Christmas night because they were wondering why they didn't get all the presents.

I wonder... did PR leave them wrapped and in the wine cellar to deliver later? Did JR unwrap them and put a pair on JB? I don't believe PR would put panties that huge on JR and I don't believe JR would agree to such a long ransom note so I suspect JR worked on some of the staging including the bloomies while PR worked on the ransom note. I'm not 100 percent RDI, but I keep heading that direction.

I have to argue with you on the tights point however...I've never lived in Boulder but I've lived in Colorado and I have extensive experience with elementary aged children and I can assure you kindergarten girls can and do wear tights under pants. They don't slip down into snow boots. Many girls wear those thick cotton tights with ribs by Hanna Andersson under pants because they are soft and warm and do not run. They hold up so well they often can be passed down as hand me downs. (Hanna Andersson also sells black velour pants for mother's and daughter's nearly every Christmas.) If the boots were knee length...tights would prevent rubbing on the skin and prevent the problem of socks scrunching down into the boots which is uncomfortable. Also, PR was all about appearances. Long johns peering out at the ankle would likely be unsightly in PR's eyes. Can you really see PR allowing JB to wear those long johns under black velvet (velour) pants to the party? I bet she didn't let JR or BR wear white socks with dark trousers either. PR was all about the details.

 

[Steely]

The strong odor of wet decay (putrefaction) does take longer, but there would be some odor at the point JB was found, the dried urine among them. Among others- dead people with mouths open in rigor have a distinctive odor to their "breath". It isn't actually "breath" because they aren't breathing, but if you were close to a dead body where the corpse's mouth was open, you'd know what I mean.
If you search for "forensic entomology" you'll see that the beginnings of an odor of decay can be detected by some insects within 10 minutes of death if the body is outdoors, and about an hour for a body indoors. Although most people don't realize this, many insects have an incredible sense of smell. They smell the changes in the BLOOD in a body- as lactic acid builds up (rigor mortis) among other things. Not that a human could have that sensitive a sense of smell, but after being dead for 12 hours (and JB was found at around that point) Arndt (because of her training in police work) may have been familiar with that smell. Not necessarily because she was familiar with homicides (I don't believe she was) but because in the nature of police work, there are times when you'd be called to a home where someone had died of natural causes.

Great post, DeeDee249, you are gifted at explaining things so people will understand without sounding condescending. If you aren't a teacher, I think you would be a very good one. I have been with someone with diabetes when they were close to death and there was a terrible odor from their mouth. I was also with someone else when they died and for a short time after and there was no odor at all. Of course, I wasn't there for twelve hours. I can imagine with the urine and having been dead there would be an odor but it seemed like the odor was not expected the way it was written...what was it "there was an odor about the body" Did I read too much into that?

The reason I ask is because I was reading more about intentional contact burns which essentially brand the person leaving the shape of the object used outlined in the skin and the smell of burnt flesh can linger from that and it is supposed to be a horrible smell. Also...did anyone notice the hair near the ear in the crime scene photo which shows what some think is a "stun gun" mark...the hair looks frazzled above her ear. It looks like the hair might have been burnt. Anyone see that?

 

[MurriFlower]

I totally agree with you about the gifts being suspect in the basement... especially "partially wrapped" could that be "partially unwrapped"????? When were they going to see the little girl that PR bought the bloomies for? Didn't the evidence list 3 partially wrapped presents? That made me wonder if the kids had sneaked in before Christmas and then sneaked in Christmas night because they were wondering why they didn't get all the presents.

I wonder... did PR leave them wrapped and in the wine cellar to deliver later? Did JR unwrap them and put a pair on JB? I don't believe PR would put panties that huge on JR and I don't believe JR would agree to such a long ransom note so I suspect JR worked on some of the staging including the bloomies while PR worked on the ransom note. I'm not 100 percent RDI, but I keep heading that direction.

I don't think there has ever been any information from a reliable source (or even an unreliable one) as to what was actually in the FAO parcels found in the cellar. Perhaps someone knows?? PR said she opened them a little because she had forgotten what they contained (done it myself) and they hadn't been handed out because some of them were for a birthday (BR's I think). I also wonder if she had gifts upstairs to take with her for the older children?

 

[MurriFlower]

The reason I ask is because I was reading more about intentional contact burns which essentially brand the person leaving the shape of the object used outlined in the skin and the smell of burnt flesh can linger from that and it is supposed to be a horrible smell. Also...did anyone notice the hair near the ear in the crime scene photo which shows what some think is a "stun gun" mark...the hair looks frazzled above her ear. It looks like the hair might have been burnt. Anyone see that?

Thanks for drawing my attention to this Steely. I'm not sure if I think the hair was burned or if it has been tangled/matted. The ear lobe appears bruised. There seems to be a circular patterned mark below the ear (to the left just above the shirt).

My guess on this is that her head was held down by force while she struggled, matting her hair and bruising her ear lobe. Perhaps the mark below her ear is the imprint of something on the floor that pressed hard against her jawbone. Ditto the circular pattened mark lower down on her neck.

 

[DeeDee249]

Great post, DeeDee249, you are gifted at explaining things so people will understand without sounding condescending. If you aren't a teacher, I think you would be a very good one. I have been with someone with diabetes when they were close to death and there was a terrible odor from their mouth. I was also with someone else when they died and for a short time after and there was no odor at all. Of course, I wasn't there for twelve hours. I can imagine with the urine and having been dead there would be an odor but it seemed like the odor was not expected the way it was written...what was it "there was an odor about the body" Did I read too much into that?

The reason I ask is because I was reading more about intentional contact burns which essentially brand the person leaving the shape of the object used outlined in the skin and the smell of burnt flesh can linger from that and it is supposed to be a horrible smell. Also...did anyone notice the hair near the ear in the crime scene photo which shows what some think is a "stun gun" mark...the hair looks frazzled above her ear. It looks like the hair might have been burnt. Anyone see that?

Thank you. I actually WAS a high school teacher (Fine Arts). I always had a way of explaining things, and I never talked down to my students.
Don't read too much into Arndt's comment. There WAS likely an odor, but when most people read "odor of decay" they think of something horrific. It would take about 24 more hours and no refrigeration for that to start in JB.
I have always had mixed feelings about the small circular marks, because they DO look like burns to me. It is vexing, because I feel the coroner would have known that and should have noted it if he did. However, I also realize that he possible DID think they were burns and decided against testing the skin to be certain. Why? Well, there is no good answer for that, IMO.
I also concede they could be stun gun marks and I believe there was a stun gun in the home. We know for sure there was a stun gun video manual, though no stun gun was found.
Let me just say that I think this was a R affair, start to finish. But I just cannot see the parents using a stun gun (or lit cigarette) on JB when she was alive, though they could be postmortem. And I have a hard time with that as well.

 

[Steely]

Thank you. I actually WAS a high school teacher (Fine Arts). I always had a way of explaining things, and I never talked down to my students.
Don't read too much into Arndt's comment. There WAS likely an odor, but when most people read "odor of decay" they think of something horrific. It would take about 24 more hours and no refrigeration for that to start in JB.
I have always had mixed feelings about the small circular marks, because they DO look like burns to me. It is vexing, because I feel the coroner would have known that and should have noted it if he did. However, I also realize that he possible DID think they were burns and decided against testing the skin to be certain. Why? Well, there is no good answer for that, IMO.
I also concede they could be stun gun marks and I believe there was a stun gun in the home. We know for sure there was a stun gun video manual, though no stun gun was found.
Let me just say that I think this was a R affair, start to finish. But I just cannot see the parents using a stun gun (or lit cigarette) on JB when she was alive, though they could be postmortem. And I have a hard time with that as well.

I am not surprised at all. From your posts, I thought you were a teacher. It is a real skill to be able to explain complicated issues without sounding condescending. A lack of respect for the listener usually shows through when someone feels superior to others and your posts show respect for the reader. I really appreciate that.

I agree about the small circular marks looking like burns. I don't know why the R's would need a stun gun to control JB or why they would use it on her after death (staging?). I do think a stun gun would point to IDI. The fact that the R's were against exhuming JB's body even though it might prove a stun gun was used and it might exonerate them... makes me suspicious that those "stun gun" marks could be the key to this case. Could those marks have been from a curling iron? No intruder would have attacked JB with a curling iron. Who would? Possibly BR if the curling iron was left on and both kids were fighting in the room where it was left..but wasn't that most likely in PR's bathroom? Where did PR do JB's hair?

What if PR was trying to get JB to sit still to do her hair. (I don't think those ponytails wer put there by an intruder...) It must not have been easy for PR to get JB to sit still for getting her hair done. IF PR was behind JB, trying to do her hair...she would have the iron in her right hand (PR was right handed, right? Or am I wrong?) She would be behind her...and the iron in her right hand and if she held it to her cheek and then maybe her neck...and if JB tried to grab it...she might grab with her left hand (so called heart)...and if JB's shirt had been taken off because it was wet with pineapple juice...she wouldn't have a shirt on and twisting and trying to get away, PR could have put the iron against her back (two marks...one from barrel and smaller one from clip)...and then in a rage or in a frantic effort to get away...PR could have shoved JB or JB could have lunged away and hit her head on the bathtub or toilet. I never would have suspected PR would purposely burn her daughter (especially on her FACE) until I started researching how common burning is in child abuse and branding type burns leave marks with patterned edges. If those marks aren't from a stun gun what could they be from? I think a curling iron. I've burned myself before and had a mark that looked like a scratch...it doesn't take long to get burned with a professional iron. PR probably had a professional curling iron or irons. She probably had one from her beauty pageant days so it is likely she had one without the safety tips. PR often made ringlets in JB's hair (and/or used extensions/cascades/falls.) How do you fix hair before you add hair pieces? How do you separate hair for curling layers? You might think a curling iron sounds ridiculous until you try to think like Patsy...until you watch videos of how you do pageant hair...until you see lots of photos of...curling irons.

 

[CathyR]

Curling Iron? Hmm If that is true then I agree the iron would not have a shielded tip.


I recently saw some episodes of Toddlers and Tiaras and not only are curling irons present they are used repeatedly to keep the look during changes.
BTW every parent in those shows look good for this too they are ?????????????, unexplainable. According to all accounts of JBR's behavior she was in no way close in bratty behavior as these kids and their parents. A pretty well rounded and neat kid who was interested in Science, people, animals, she loved life and it shows in her casual family moments photos and even staged photos where her personality shone.

In these shows some are doing the pageant hair by showing up in curlers worn all night and then touched and teased up. Some kids have the whole thing done on site but I don't think JBR needed pageant hair for next day. I think JBR and Daphne did her hair at the party playing. I have long hair and often wear my hair like that for sleeping as it doesn't get as tangled during the night as loose or just a pony tail does.

 

[Steely]

Curling Iron? Hmm If that is true then I agree the iron would not have a shielded tip.


I recently saw some episodes of Toddlers and Tiaras and not only are curling irons present they are used repeatedly to keep the look during changes.
BTW every parent in those shows look good for this too they are ?????????????, unexplainable. According to all accounts of JBR's behavior she was in no way close in bratty behavior as these kids and their parents. A pretty well rounded and neat kid who was interested in Science, people, animals, she loved life and it shows in her casual family moments photos and even staged photos where her personality shone.

In these shows some are doing the pageant hair by showing up in curlers worn all night and then touched and teased up. Some kids have the whole thing done on site but I don't think JBR needed pageant hair for next day. I think JBR and Daphne did her hair at the party playing. I have long hair and often wear my hair like that for sleeping as it doesn't get as tangled during the night as loose or just a pony tail does.

I've only seen you tube clips of that show but...it is a reality show. I don't think that even those girls on the show are as bratty as the show makes them appear. I think it does give insight into the world of child pageants though with the spray tanning...the flippers...the pageant hair...the expensive outfits and all.

Great post! Thanks. I don't think JB needed pageant hair for next day and it is entirely possible Daphne played with JB's hair. But putting in pageant hair for a few quick photos might have been quicker than doing all of her hair. I also think PR would have wanted JB's hair looking halfway decent for family photos the next day with JR's kids also so I wouldn't be surprised if PR was doing her hair that night.

Why did the R's jump on the hair tie thing like an intruder did it? THAT is what makes me so suspicious. Why did PR say she dyed her own hair on Christmas Day? Maybe she did. Were any hair coloring boxes found in the garbage? Any hair coloring GLOVES? Yes, I said GLOVES. There are little gloves that come in the hair coloring boxes. Did LE find gloves? Did the gloves have dye on them? I read somewhere there was a smell of peroxide in one of the bathrooms. Did PR try to account for a cleaning smell and missing gloves by saying she dyed her hair? She could have used the gloves for staging then cleaned the gloves and dumped dye on them then swished the dye down the drain making sure dye was all over the glove and then tossed them. Wouldn't hair dye over the gloves hide DNA evidence?

I've wondered if it was JR who rode that bike to make a middle of the night get rid of evidence run. I have a hard time believing with all she had to do for the trip and her love of family photos that PR would leave touching up her roots until Christmas day. I have a hard time believing she colored her hair herself. Did LE ever question her hairdresser?

 

[MalloryK]

Jonbenet’s socks on bed with her black pants after Christmas night @ the White’s.