State v Bradley Cooper 04-18-2011

[dramamama]

Let's have a "pool" to see how many days the defense will take to present their case. What is everyone's guess?

14 days....

 

[Madeleine74]

And if this is true, and uncontested, she certainly did not go running.

Fencers, what say you about this onion?

It is true and it is uncontested. The defense did not say or attempt to say that the stomach contents were anything but what the M.E. testified to. There is no opposing M.E. type witness for the defense. A dead body will not keep digesting food. What's there is there at time of death. Undigested food stays in stomach. Within 6 hrs all food is gone from stomach, maybe even within 4 to 5 hrs. If Nancy came home and got sick/vomited, then the food in her system would be gone that much faster since there would be less of it to continue digesting. 6 hrs is an absolute maximum, possibly more time than reality.

 

[SleuthSayer]

I keep going back to the M.E. testimony. That onion segment still in her stomach. Defense didn't counteract that factoid. An entire meal would be digested within 6 hrs. Every bit of food gone. Even an onion, which takes longer to digest, would be gone by then.

If you assume Nancy took her last bite of food at midnight, right before she left the party, all food in her stomach would be gone, out of her stomach, within 6 hrs.

Onion piece still in stomach at autopsy. Not contested.

Nancy was dead by 6am.

Found this info on a GI site, a study of transit time of normal meal through stomach:

- 50% of stomach contents emptied 2.5 to 3 hours
- Total emptying of the stomach 4 to 5 hours

I added in an extra hour for the onion, just to be on the safe side.

Hmm. Wonder why the M.E. didn't know that.

Butts, questioned by assistant district attorney Howard Cummings and defense attorney Robert Trenkle, said Nancy Cooper could have died shortly after midnight or she could have died shortly after 7 a.m., the time her husband told others she had left their home for a run.

Cary News

 

[ncsu95]

He first wanted to get out of the house to avoid the cops and press by looking for a Museum trip with the girls.
Next, he wanted to jet off to Canada to totally remove himself. Remember the job search too?

Come on, you can't be serious. It's not like he had a job interview where setting up flights would make sense.

 

[dramamama]

so what was the big story he told about their night/early morning, up at 4, calls for green juice, jogging, all about?

i guess that is my point, he told the wrong story for a cover-up. It would have seemed more likely that they had a huge "hate-mode" fight at the party and she never came home, or at least that he remembers, than to say everything else he did. But then again, he couldn't leave home with the kids there by themselves, unless she was there. I am just suggesting there were flaws in his initial story. At this point it is just speculation. If you believe he murdered NC as I do, then there must be a story. Trying to figure that story out and where it went wrong is a big part of his possible eventual conviction.

 

[ncsu95]

But she had plans to take them to the pool in the afternoon.

Maybe he didn't know about that. I just found out my wife is taking my kids for a playdate tomorrow.....and we actually speak to each other.

 

[Cheyenne130]

Maybe he didn't know about that. I just found out my wife is taking my kids for a playdate tomorrow.....and we actually speak to each other.

Them not speaking makes a whole lot more about his whole story unbelievable. MOO

 

[Madeleine74]

The M.E. was asked a bunch of hypothetical questions. "Assume Nancy ate her last meal at 7pm then would that be consistent with a TOD of xx:xx." Assume Nancy vomited after coming home, would that be consistent with a TOD of xx:xx." The physical condition of Nancy's body, with the level of decomp, doesn't narrow the TOD by itself. But that onion segment was there and we know the approx time she left the party to walk across the street.

We aren't trying to prove Nancy died by 1am. So in looking at the food in her stomach, assuming she didn't vomit and all else was well, what's the maximum time it would take to digest ALL the food, including the onion? Certainly within 6 hrs. Oh but there was still an onion segment left in her stomach. Undigested.

 

[Just the Fax]

The M.E. was asked a bunch of hypothetical questions. "Assume Nancy ate her last meal at 7pm then would that be consistent with a TOD of xx:xx." Assume Nancy vomited after coming home, would that be consistent with a TOD of xx:xx." The physical condition of Nancy's body, with the level of decomp, doesn't narrow the TOD by itself. But that onion segment was there and we know the approx time she left the party to walk across the street.

We aren't trying to prove Nancy died by 1am. So in looking at the food in her stomach, assuming she didn't vomit and all else was well, what's the maximum time it would take to digest ALL the food, including the onion? Certainly within 6 hrs. Oh but there was still an onion segment left in her stomach. Undigested.

The questioning of Dr Butts was one of the lowest points in the states case. Too bad for Cummings, because they really had a chance to shine.

 

[Just the Fax]

Maybe he didn't know about that. I just found out my wife is taking my kids for a playdate tomorrow.....and we actually speak to each other.

You work, right? We were talking about a Saturday.
From what we heard, Brad very rarely took extended time with the girls unless he was asked.

 

[SleuthSayer]

The M.E. was asked a bunch of hypothetical questions. "Assume Nancy ate her last meal at 7pm then would that be consistent with a TOD of xx:xx." Assume Nancy vomited after coming home, would that be consistent with a TOD of xx:xx." The physical condition of Nancy's body, with the level of decomp, doesn't narrow the TOD by itself. But that onion segment was there and we know the approx time she left the party to walk across the street.

We aren't trying to prove Nancy died by 1am. So in looking at the food in her stomach, assuming she didn't vomit and all else was well, what's the maximum time it would take to digest ALL the food, including the onion? Certainly within 6 hrs. Oh but there was still an onion segment left in her stomach. Undigested.

ok, I'm not arguing the point. You apparently have more information than the M.E. did. He testified under oath that TOD could have been as late as shortly after 7am. If he were privy to the same information that you have available to you, he could have sealed the deal on the conviction without all this drama. If she was provably dead before 6am, it's a done deal.

 

[johnfear]

That is not BCs hand, it is someone behind him.[/QUOTE
Believe it's BC's father's right hand.

It's actually a projection of the closed hand cursor file from the DC's testimony.

HC said something about: Can you enter into this google thing a question? Say, who do you think killed Nancy Cupper? And will it point to the person you think killed Mrs. Cupper?

 

[ncsu95]

And if this is true, and uncontested, she certainly did not go running.

Fencers, what say you about this onion?

Her stomach was basically empty. Maybe it was a larger piece of onion? I don't know very much about how the body digests food. The ME certainly didn't indicate that her stomach had to be 100% empty including this single piece of onion by 6:00 am.

 

[Madeleine74]

ok, I'm not arguing the point. You apparently have more information than the M.E. did. He testified under oath that TOD could have been as late as shortly after 7am. If he were privy to the same information that you have available to you, he could have sealed the deal on the conviction without all this drama. If she was provably dead before 6am, it's a done deal.

It's not that the M.E. didn't have all the info, and it's not that I or anyone have more info, it's that the state (specifically Cummings) didn't ask him enough or even the right questions to get all the info out. Cummings blew that questioning big time. It doesn't change the fact of what was in NC's stomach. Cummings was so intent on trying to prove a 1am TOD that he had the M.E. focus on things like Nancy's last meal at 7pm (note the M.E. said yes TOD could have been by 1am ...and that is 6 hrs after last bite of food). He also tried to go with a vomiting scenario as way to show an emptier stomach than would be expected if TOD is 1am.

Cummings didn't know how to question this doc. The M.E. answered what he was asked. But that max digestion time doesn't change--only the last bite of food time is variable. Move that last bite of food forward to midnight, and even with the maximum time to digest, Nancy is still dead by 6am, with a remaining segment of onion in her stomach.

 

[Just the Fax]

Her stomach was basically empty. Maybe it was a larger piece of onion? I don't know very much about how the body digests food. The ME certainly didn't indicate that her stomach had to be 100% empty including this single piece of onion by 6:00 am.

Dr. Butts answered questions, he did not offer unsolicited opinions.
Betcha Cummings would love to redo his entire line of questioning for this witness.

 

[ncsu95]

It is true and it is uncontested. The defense did not say or attempt to say that the stomach contents were anything but what the M.E. testified to. There is no opposing M.E. type witness for the defense. A dead body will not keep digesting food. What's there is there at time of death. Undigested food stays in stomach. Within 6 hrs all food is gone from stomach, maybe even within 4 to 5 hrs. If Nancy came home and got sick/vomited, then the food in her system would be gone that much faster since there would be less of it to continue digesting. 6 hrs is an absolute maximum, possibly more time than reality.

Wow, you say this like you are now a GI expert. From your own link:

The discussion above should help to explain why it is difficult to state with any precision how long ingesta remains in the stomach, small intestine and large intestine. Nonetheless, there have been many studies on GI transit, and the table below presents rough estimates for transit times in healthy humans following ingestion of a standard meal (i.e. solid, mixed foods).
50% of stomach contents emptied 2.5 to 3 hours
Total emptying of the stomach 4 to 5 hours
50% emptying of the small intestine 2.5 to 3 hours
Transit through the colon 30 to 40 hours

Remember that these are estimates of average transit times, and there is a great deal of variability among individuals and in the small person at different times and after different meals.


I guess this is why the ME didn't say she was dead by 6.

 

[SleuthSayer]

Let's have a "pool" to see how many days the defense will take to present their case. What is everyone's guess?

I am going to guess 8 calendar days.

And I'm still standing by my prediction that he'll be found guilty or possibly a hung jury with 1 or 2 holdouts. I made that prediction long before the google maps evidence and haven't wavered in my opinion. The prosecution could have rested after about a week and he would have been found guilty.

 

[ncsu95]

You work, right? We were talking about a Saturday.
From what we heard, Brad very rarely took extended time with the girls unless he was asked.

I work from home.

 

[Just the Fax]

Come on, you can't be serious. It's not like he had a job interview where setting up flights would make sense.

Very serious.
2 different events entirely

1- Flights to get the hell out of Dodge - dodge the press and cops.
2- Look for future job opportunities in Canada

 

[ncsu95]

It's not that the M.E. didn't have all the info, and it's not that I or anyone have more info, it's that the state (specifically Cummings) didn't ask him enough or even the right questions to get all the info out. Cummings blew that questioning big time. It doesn't change the fact of what was in NC's stomach. Cummings was so intent on trying to prove a 1am TOD that he had the M.E. focus on things like Nancy's last meal at 7pm (note the M.E. said yes TOD could have been by 1am ...and that is 6 hrs after last bite of food). He also tried to go with a vomiting scenario as way to show an emptier stomach than would be expected if TOD is 1am.

Cummings didn't know how to question this doc. The M.E. answered what he was asked. But that max digestion time doesn't change--only the last bite of food time is variable. Move that last bite of food forward to midnight, and even with the maximum time to digest, Nancy is still dead by 6am, with a remaining segment of onion in her stomach.

So the ME said a 1 am TOD would be consistent if she ate her last meal at 7. That is 6 hours and there was still a piece of onion. So that means your theory that it wouldn't be there after 6 hours at the latest doesn't match what the ME testified to that her stomach contents would be consistent with someone who last ate at 7 and was killed at 1.