student kills self after webcam spying UPDATE: Conviction Overturned

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This may have been previously discussed, but did Tyler's parents know he was gay? If not, can you imagine getting "outed" that way?
 
Sorry.. but how on earth can you not know your own grown child is gay...? I never could fathom that. Also, if Tyler's jumping from the bridge was a reaction to THAT (being 'outed')... then he had WAAAAYYYYY more issues going on that the other 2 had anything to do with....

I still do not agree what happened was bullying. If that is so, then anyone could sue anyone else for doing anything, anywhere that embarrassed them or made them upset....
 
reb said:
Sorry.. but how on earth can you not know your own grown child is gay...? I never could fathom that. Also, if Tyler's jumping from the bridge was a reaction to THAT (being 'outed')... then he had WAAAAYYYYY more issues going on that the other 2 had anything to do with....

I still do not agree what happened was bullying. If that is so, then anyone could sue anyone else for doing anything, anywhere that embarrassed them or made them upset....
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He may not have let his parents know he was gay. I had no clue Cat Cora was gay until I read her article today, and I watch her often!
Although, videotaping him was not the same exactly as direct taunting, it exposed him to future ongoing taunting by broadcasting to the world what should have been his privacy. Whether it be a sexual act/ gay or straight/ male or female victim/ dressing, undressing/ sleeping/ using the bathroom/ showering, bathing... they had NO right to violate his privacy- that's the bottom line, that's no harmless prank!
 
LinasK said:
Not a double standard at all.:snooty: When a person chooses to expose themself whether it be the internet, TV, movies, or photos ala Madonna or Brittney Spears, it is their right. It is noone else's right to decide to take that privacy away from those who choose not to act that way!!!
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Since I can't edit...forgot to add Janet Jackson and Lady Gaga to above said women who choose to expose themselves to the world...
 
Lucid said:
This is a fantastic quote, and I thank you for it. I really do hope the people involved are punished, if only to teach them (and others) this lesson that nobody apparently seems to know anymore.
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I didn't realize our judicial laws were in place to teach lessons.
 
"...remarkable reputation is being unjustly tarnished by uninformed and incorrect assumptions."—http://abcnews.go.com/US/rutgers-sus...ry?id=11812453
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Remarkable is as remarkable does.

P.S. I do appreciate this comment by Ravi's attorney (same link as above):

"Out of respect to Tyler Clementi's family, this is not the time for explanations of defenses or justifications to be made public by an attorney."
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I certainly agree that it was no harmless prank. But how much responsibility do these 2 have for the young man's suicide? And is the public reacting more harshly towards them because Clementi was gay? Looks that way to me. If they videotaped a young woman (or a hetero couple in bed) w/o her (or their) consent, & did the same thing,, would people still call it 'cyberbullying'? If the hetero woman or man committed suicide afterwards, would it even make the news...? I wonder.
 
And regarding bullying....... that has existed as long as humans have been on the earth. Why all of a sudden are kids jumping off bridges, shooting & hanging themselves over it.. (gay and straight)? Young people used to just deal with it, or fight back (without shooting their classmates), and move on. Why are they offing themselves in record numbers? I mean I'm glad that teachers & parents are trying to be aware ad teach the younger gen to be more humane. But I'm seeing a real slippery slope here in terms of personal responsibility (i.e., 'bully makes kid commit suicide'). When I was a kid, lots of kids got bullied or whatever you want to call it, but they didn't go kill themselves over it. It was just part of life. Most everyone pretty much got treated badly by someone somewhere, at some time.
YES we should teach kids to act right. But why the extreme reactions all of a sudden?
Either suicide- and blaming the bully-- or freaking out and shooting up the place?
 
reb said:
I certainly agree that it was no harmless prank. But how much responsibility do these 2 have for the young man's suicide? And is the public reacting more harshly towards them because Clementi was gay? Looks that way to me. If they videotaped a young woman (or a hetero couple in bed) w/o her (or their) consent, & did the same thing,, would people still call it 'cyberbullying'? If the hetero woman or man committed suicide afterwards, would it even make the news...? I wonder.
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If female jumped off the bridge after being videotaped having sex without her consent-I think it's a very good bet it would make the news.
 
Paintr said:
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/nj-senator-calls-for-anti-bully-law



NJ Senator Calls For Anti-bully Law



New Jersey's U.S. Sen. Frank Lautenberg says he'll introduce legislation requiring colleges to adopt a code of conduct that prohibits bullying and harassment following the suicide of a student whose gay sexual encounter was broadcast online.
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Rutgers already had a code of conduct prohibiting videotaping someone in a sexual situation without consent, little good that it did in this case. Somebody can introduce legislations to prohibit things all day long-what good is that gonna do?
 
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/gaysouthflorida/2010/10/campus-pride-expell-dharun-ravi-and-molly-wei-for-privacy-invasion-of-suicide-victim-tyler-clementi.html


Campus Pride Calls on Rutgers University to Immediately Expel Dharun Ravi & Molly Wei for Egregious Invasion of Privacy that led to the Suicide of Tyler Clementi


“Now is the time to act decisively and send a clear message at Rutgers and at colleges across the country that LGBT harassment and hate will not be tolerated any longer,” states Campus Pride noting it has now been two weeks since Clementi committed suicide.
 
http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2010/10/a_hasty_push_for_jail_in_rutge.html

There’s no clear evidence this was a hate crime either, at least at this stage. Under New Jersey’s “bias intimidation” statute, prosecutors would first have to prove these students chose Clementi as their victim because he was gay. That’s possible, but tough to prove.

Second, prosecutors would have to prove Ravi and Wei were not just being reckless, but purposefully trying to intimidate or harass Clementi because of his sexual orientation. No evidence has surfaced yet to support that. They may never have intended him to see the video or even know the filming occurred. They may have just cruelly and stupidly thought this would be something cool to show over the internet.

Ravi and Wei would most likely get probation for the invasion of privacy charges, if they have no prior records. But if this were upgraded to a hate crime, they would probably get at least some jail time.
 
reb said:
And regarding bullying....... that has existed as long as humans have been on the earth. Why all of a sudden are kids jumping off bridges, shooting & hanging themselves over it.. (gay and straight)? Young people used to just deal with it, or fight back (without shooting their classmates), and move on. Why are they offing themselves in record numbers? I mean I'm glad that teachers & parents are trying to be aware ad teach the younger gen to be more humane. But I'm seeing a real slippery slope here in terms of personal responsibility (i.e., 'bully makes kid commit suicide'). When I was a kid, lots of kids got bullied or whatever you want to call it, but they didn't go kill themselves over it. It was just part of life. Most everyone pretty much got treated badly by someone somewhere, at some time.
YES we should teach kids to act right. But why the extreme reactions all of a sudden?
Either suicide- and blaming the bully-- or freaking out and shooting up the place?
Click to expand...

Reb, it's because these kids were raised in a different world than we were. I hear ya trust me. If we came home and said someone bullyied us we were told to get back out there and "Go punch that lil s*it in the mouth and it won't happen again". If the person was way bigger than you then ya got told to pick something up and hit them with it. Dirty fighting allowed.

Then it came to the no fighting in the school yard or you'll get kicked out. They preached peace and understanding. If you then took it to the street after school somebody would go tell the school Principal and you were in trouble. All that did was protect the bully. Defending yourself carried consequences.

Add in the internet world. Maybe Joe Smith called my sibling a sissy. Figure maybe twenty people heard that tops. I then went after Joe Smith. He winds up apologizing. Ya shake hands. Today hundreds of people hear Joe Smith call someone a sissy via text, internet, iPhone. On and on. It never ends.

Plus add in the kid that goes by the no fighting rules. I can tell you that was my DD since second grade. My dad instructed her to go punch that lil creep in the mouth. End it. Some kids just won't fight back. My dad was right as you let one person walk on ya the others follow.

That went on until high school. Years of torture. Finally I got a call one day from a nun in my DD's high school. Some chick wrote all over the back of her blouse. My DD told her to quit it. She didn't. At that my DD stood up during the class took the bigggest and heaviest book she had and slammed the girl in the head. She knocked her out of her seat. Big girl on the basketball team too.

The teacher told me later the whole class just gasped and the beotch who wrote on her was stunned on the floor. The scary part was my DD calmly told the teacher she was sorry for interuppting, and to please continue class. Real calm. She told me "Ma, I had enough. I couldn't take it. I snapped".

This isn't our old school bullying. These kids are lethal. Plus once it got out my DD did that finally after about eight years of bullying they left her alone. She wasn't proud of it, but I was proud of her cause I was preaching that for years.

Sorry for the O/T rant. Nope we couldn't video people or record their audio. We couldn't spread nasty rumors with the click of the keyboard. New times.
 
Also, it's not that people didn't commit suicide in the past...it's that we didn't know about it.

How many suicides were hushed up? I personally know of several. My grandmother's best friend killed herself, but no one was supposed to know. (Yeah, she "accidentally" sat in the car with the garage down and the engine running for hours. They blamed it on a problem with the garage door being stuck.)

Or my cousin's friend who slit her wrists in the tub. Those parents said she fell down the stairs.

I know of three people who shot themselves; two left a note. All three were blamed on accidents while cleaning a gun.

And the young man who hung himself? He had "an accident" at home. Very vague.

Those are just the ones I was personally close enough to to hear the details!

BI (before the internet) these stories might have been told to a local paper, who would have respected their neighbors enough not to publish the speculation. Today we have all kinds of media reporting these stories (not to mention the fb suicide note, which is hard to shred and forget about) who have no connection to the family and a motive for bringing out the truth about suicide, bullying, and sexual orientation (not saying those motives are good or bad, just that there are reasons some people would rather not cover up the truth).

Honestly, I don't think there's anything new under the sun. There have been homosexuals, bullying, and suicide in the world since the Pentateuch.
 
Filly said:
Reb, it's because these kids were raised in a different world than we were. I hear ya trust me. If we came home and said someone bullyied us we were told to get back out there and "Go punch that lil s*it in the mouth and it won't happen again". If the person was way bigger than you then ya got told to pick something up and hit them with it. Dirty fighting allowed.

Then it came to the no fighting in the school yard or you'll get kicked out. They preached peace and understanding. If you then took it to the street after school somebody would go tell the school Principal and you were in trouble. All that did was protect the bully. Defending yourself carried consequences.

Add in the internet world. Maybe Joe Smith called my sibling a sissy. Figure maybe twenty people heard that tops. I then went after Joe Smith. He winds up apologizing. Ya shake hands. Today hundreds of people hear Joe Smith call someone a sissy via text, internet, iPhone. On and on. It never ends.

Plus add in the kid that goes by the no fighting rules. I can tell you that was my DD since second grade. My dad instructed her to go punch that lil creep in the mouth. End it. Some kids just won't fight back. My dad was right as you let one person walk on ya the others follow.

That went on until high school. Years of torture. Finally I got a call one day from a nun in my DD's high school. Some chick wrote all over the back of her blouse. My DD told her to quit it. She didn't. At that my DD stood up during the class took the bigggest and heaviest book she had and slammed the girl in the head. She knocked her out of her seat. Big girl on the basketball team too.

The teacher told me later the whole class just gasped and the beotch who wrote on her was stunned on the floor. The scary part was my DD calmly told the teacher she was sorry for interuppting, and to please continue class. Real calm. She told me "Ma, I had enough. I couldn't take it. I snapped".

This isn't our old school bullying. These kids are lethal. Plus once it got out my DD did that finally after about eight years of bullying they left her alone. She wasn't proud of it, but I was proud of her cause I was preaching that for years.

Sorry for the O/T rant. Nope we couldn't video people or record their audio. We couldn't spread nasty rumors with the click of the keyboard. New times.
Click to expand...

Good for your DD. Sometimes it is the only thing that stops one of these obnoxious bullys, unfortunately.
My son was bullied for 2 yrs. I found it hard to believe no adult in the school saw it going on. So, I went over there and asked to speak to an administrator and told her I wanted her to call that kid into the office and I had quite alot to say to him. She said she couldnt do that but she would call his parents. It FINALLY stopped.
My friends son was picked on for a long time by a school bully and one day lost it and broke his hand after punching him so hard lol
yes, bullying has always gone on and I sure wish someone would study them, do they have something wrong with their brains? It just doesnt make sense to me why other kids enjoy so much to make other kids lives so miserable.
 
feddup said:
Good for your DD. Sometimes it is the only thing that stops one of these obnoxious bullys, unfortunately.
My son was bullied for 2 yrs. I found it hard to believe no adult in the school saw it going on. So, I went over there and asked to speak to an administrator and told her I wanted her to call that kid into the office and I had quite alot to say to him. She said she couldnt do that but she would call his parents. It FINALLY stopped.
My friends son was picked on for a long time by a school bully and one day lost it and broke his hand after punching him so hard lol
yes, bullying has always gone on and I sure wish someone would study them, do they have something wrong with their brains? It just doesnt make sense to me why other kids enjoy so much to make other kids lives so miserable.
Click to expand...

Personally I am not sure why the situation with Tyler is called bullying. I think what is alleged here is invasion of privacy, not bullying. When Erin Andrews was videotaped I've heard no one claim that guy bullied her.
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20018868-504083.html

Prosecutors have subpoenaed Rutgers University to get a hold of e-mails concerning how the school handled complaints from freshman Tyler Clementi that his roommate used a webcam to broadcast video on the Internet of him in a sexual encounter with another man.

snip...

The Star-Ledger of Newark reports that prosecutors asked for the subpoenas after investigators felt the state university was not fully cooperating with the invasion of privacy case.
 
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