student kills self after webcam spying UPDATE: Conviction Overturned

[gxm]

I am not sure if his family knew that he was gay. His friend from high school was interviewed, and said Tyler did not date either males or females in high school, just was concentrating on playing the violin and not dating. So if he was interested in males he might have not done so out in the open while he was living in home. And if he was anonymously posting on some gay oriented website, how many parents really know all their children do on the internet? So I think that possibly his family did not know.

That's the impression that I get. Unless Tyler was not out to his family then, as horrible as this invasion of privacy is, it does not seem likely that it would produce enough distress for a suicide. I am not trying to downplay how despicable it was to film Tyler's private encounters. I just don't see his sexual preference as a suicidal issue if he was out, and his family and friends had accepted that fact. For some reason, I find myself wondering what else was going on in his life that could have prompted him to such a tragic end.

 

[Lou Cyper]

I wish it was that way, but I'm afraid it's not. The case that illustrates this best, and really stands out for me, is the one where Jeremy Strohmeyer molested and killed Sherrice Iverson while Jeremy's "friend" David Csh watched, but did not participate and did not report it - and broke no law:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,139892,00.html

Things have been changing, especially regarding crimes against children. But in general, witnesses are under no obligation to report crimes.

That's utterly appalling. Definitely a psychopath right there.

 

[jjenny]

That's the impression that I get. Unless Tyler was not out to his family then, as horrible as this invasion of privacy is, it does not seem likely that it would produce enough distress for a suicide. I am not trying to downplay how despicable it was to film Tyler's private encounters. I just don't see his sexual preference as a suicidal issue if he was out, and his family and friends had accepted that fact. For some reason, I find myself wondering what else was going on in his life that could have prompted him to such a tragic end.

Unless he left a note we will likely never know the exact reasons for suicide. We know he asked for a room change after he found out that he was spied on, so presumably he wasn't suicidal right away after finding out about the webcam, because why would someone planning to jump off a bridge need a room change? I wonder how many people actually saw this video? Was anybody making comments to him about it?

 

[i.b.nora]

2 Linked to Suicide Case Withdraw From Rutgers

New York Times
By SAM DOLNICK
Published: October 29, 2010

"The two Rutgers students charged with invading the privacy of a fellow freshman who killed himself after his romantic encounter with another man was streamed on the Internet have withdrawn from the university, their lawyers said on Friday.

A lawyer for Molly Wei, one of the students, said she had withdrawn out of concern for her safety. Rutgers officials would not say whether the university had asked the students to leave."

and

"Mr. Ravi’s lawyer, Steven D. Altman, would say only that his client had withdrawn from Rutgers. But The Asbury Park Press quoted Mr. Altman on Friday as saying that Ms. Wei and Mr. Ravi “were given the option of withdrawing, and they can reapply.”

“Realistically, they couldn’t go back, no matter what,” Mr. Altman said. He added that Mr. Ravi “definitely plans to go somewhere else.”

Rutgers officials declined to comment on the withdrawals."

 

[Missizzy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_rutge...DeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA3J1dGdlcnNzdWljaQ--

Rutgers suicide case poses test for NJ privacy law

"The case of a Rutgers University student who committed suicide after a roommate allegedly used a webcam to spy on his tryst with another man could pose the first legal test of a state privacy law passed in 2003.

Lawyers for the roommate and another student, accused of watching 18-year-old Tyler Clementi "making out with a dude" in his dorm room on the Piscataway campus, insist their clients were the only two people who saw a tame encounter and did not record it. Prosecutors said, though, that they tried to transmit a "sexual encounter" on the Internet but haven't said how widely available they believe the video was.

Therein lie the questions: What was the potential audience? What constitutes privacy? What did Clementi know, and why did he believe death was the best option? For the young suspects, the answers could mean the difference between years in prison, 18 months or no time at all...."

more at link


I don't know about anyone else but the phrase, "making out with a dude" saddens me. As if this was prurient. It's not. Would someone say, "making out with a chick"? I doubt it. My heart just aches for the young men in that room that night. Not much has been said about the Tyler's date but I worry about him.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

It's so heartbreaking that no person, regardless of who they are or what "orientation" (A word that's really beginning to p!ss me off), simply cannot have a life that is their own. In my humble opinion, this case is a sample of cyber stalking and done simply to humilate another human being. Ifg this was done to anyone else, there'd be no question of the hate crime made nor the end result of the *victim*.

Tyler Clemente may not have been a suicidal individual, but provoked by reasons only he knew. It's not easy working to be who you are in this world, to find self comfort for who you are, and can be, at such a young age. I thank God I have those in my life that have, and still work for, the strength to move beyond a label. I cherish the very existance of their being. My life is richer for them touching my heart and sharing the gift of themselves with me....

It Gets Better.

 

[LCoastMom]

Parents of Rutgers Student in Suicide Say No ‘Harsh’ Penalty Is Needed


But in the statement, released on Monday to The Star-Ledger of Newark, the Clementi family and their lawyer expressed an eagerness to see the six-month-old criminal case proceed against the ex-roommate and another former Rutgers student.

The statement is the fullest public comment to date from the parents, Jane and Joseph Clementi, of Ridgewood, N.J., who wrote that they were starting the Tyler Clementi Foundation to raise awareness of bullying, encourage research on the effects of electronic media and help vulnerable young people.

“We have done our best to deal with the grief and pain of the death of our son, Tyler, in awful circumstances,” the Clementis wrote, “while dealing with the crush of media attention, the pending criminal investigations and, of course, our own unanswered questions.”

The most serious of the existing charges carry a maximum sentence of five years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/nyregion/23rutgers.html?_r=1&WT.mc_id=NY-PS-E-OB-PS-TXT-TH-ROS-1010-NA&WT.mc_ev=click

 

[daisy7]

A New Jersey grand jury on Wednesday indicted the roommate of Tyler Clementi, the Rutgers University freshman who killed himself in September, on hate-crime charges in using a webcam to stream Mr. Clementi’s romantic encounter with another man on the Internet in the days before the suicide.

The roommate, Dharun Ravi, and another student were initially charged with invasion of privacy. In accusing Mr. Ravi of acting with antigay motives, the indictment exposes him to a potential sentence of at least 5 to 10 years in prison if convicted, as opposed to the probation that would probably have resulted if Mr. Ravi were convicted only on the earlier counts.

The grand jury also charged Mr. Ravi, 19, with a cover-up. The Middlesex County prosecutor’s office said he had deleted a Twitter post that alerted others to watch a second encounter Mr. Clementi planned with the man — identified in the indictment only as “M.B.” — and replaced it with a post “intended to mislead the investigation.” Prosecutors said Mr. Ravi had also tried to persuade witnesses not to testify.

(snip)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/n...ng-suicide.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=clementi&st=cse

 

[HMSHood]

Sounds like Dharun Ravi has issues of self-hatred. I wonder if anyone has ever profiled Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei?

 

[Paintr]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/13/nyregion/with-tyler-clementi-suicide-more-complex-picture-emerges.html?_r=1

Court papers filed this week offer a more complex picture of the Rutgers freshman who jumped to his death from the George Washington Bridge in September and of his roommate, who used a webcam days earlier to spy on him in an intimate encounter with another man.

 

[HMSHood]

Dharun Ravi turns down plea deal in Tyler Clementi webcam spy case
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/do_not_publish_--_dharun_ravi.html

Ravi could also face deportation if he is convicted because he was born in India. Altman said Ravi has a green card and "is here legally," but "deportation could be an issue."

 

[zippitydoda]

The Story of a Suicide
Two college roommates, a webcam, and a tragedy.
by Ian Parker

And outstanding, long and detailed article, which tells the story of what Ravi and Wei did before, during and after this tradegy.

So sad that Tyler could not see past this day, and what his life could have been.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker?currentPage=all

Mean/cruel people suck.

 

[kemo]

This situation is not as clear cut as it has been represented. Ravi did use a web cam to spy on his roommate while he was involved in a sexual encounter. (He did not record it or post it on the internet). Clementi was not happy about this and had reported it to the University Adm. The record of Clementi's emails, tweets and internet postings demonstrates that there were other serious stresses going on in his life and the video incident may not have been all that much of a factor in the suicide.

What Ravi and Wei did is clearly a crime; a low level felony. By making it a "Hate Crime", the penalty becomes much worse. The trouble is that up until now, the hate crime "upgrade" has only been used in crimes of violence. Then there is the question of whether it was a "hate crime" at all. In all of Ravi's tweets, emails and web postings, there doesn't seem to be any animosity towards gays. Ravi and Wei were curious of what the two gay lovers were up to.

 

[kellter]

Live coverage, trial starts today.

http://www.news12.com/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=308848&position=1&news_type=news

 

[Velouria]

Watching on TruTv now...I can understand being a bit nervous, but what is so darned funny? This witness (Mr. Chung) seems to be grinning or chuckling at nearly every question.

 

[costalpilot]

seems like PC overreaching by the state. invasion of privacy, yes. hate crime, the state wishes, for whatever reason.

no way a jury buys this, imo.

 

[Jacie Estes]

This situation is not as clear cut as it has been represented. Ravi did use a web cam to spy on his roommate while he was involved in a sexual encounter. (He did not record it or post it on the internet). Clementi was not happy about this and had reported it to the University Adm. The record of Clementi's emails, tweets and internet postings demonstrates that there were other serious stresses going on in his life and the video incident may not have been all that much of a factor in the suicide.

What Ravi and Wei did is clearly a crime; a low level felony. By making it a "Hate Crime", the penalty becomes much worse. The trouble is that up until now, the hate crime "upgrade" has only been used in crimes of violence. Then there is the question of whether it was a "hate crime" at all. In all of Ravi's tweets, emails and web postings, there doesn't seem to be any animosity towards gays. Ravi and Wei were curious of what the two gay lovers were up to.

Ravi and Wei had no right to do that; the actions of both of them were despicable. Ravi and Wei should not get a pass on this; they both acted like little snots. IMHO I have no problem with Ravi being deported. It was a privilege for him to be in this country, he abused that privilege by over stepping. As someone who has spent the last 4 out of 5 years in a university classroom; I have seen that there are some younger students who just don't get the concept of civility or responsibility. Tyler Clementi deserved better, more civil treatment from his roommate; instead he got stuck with a spoiled brat who felt he was above reproach and acted in conjunction with Wei. These two brought this on themselves and now they have to pay for their ignorance and indifference to others. As one of my professors would say, 'too bad, so sad'. There are many who are outraged by the actions against Tyler, I am one of them.

There is the Law of Unintended Consequences:

Robert K. Merton listed five possible causes of unanticipated consequences:
1.Ignorance (It is impossible to anticipate everything, thereby leading to incomplete analysis)
2.Error (Incorrect analysis of the problem or following habits that worked in the past but may not apply to the current situation)
3.Immediate interest, which may override long-term interests
4.Basic values may require or prohibit certain actions even if the long-term result might be unfavorable (these long-term consequences may eventually cause changes in basic values)
5.Self-defeating prophecy (Fear of some consequence drives people to find solutions before the problem occurs, thus the non-occurrence of the problem is unanticipated.)

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_consequences"]Unintended consequences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[sweetmop]

Ravi and Wei had no right to do that; the actions of both of them were despicable. Ravi and Wei should not get a pass on this; they both acted like little snots. IMHO I have no problem with Ravi being deported. It was a privilege for him to be in this country, he abused that privilege by over stepping. As someone who has spent the last 4 out of 5 years in a university classroom; I have seen that there are some younger students who just don't get the concept of civility or responsibility. Tyler Clementi deserved better, more civil treatment from his roommate; instead he got stuck with a spoiled brat who felt he was above reproach and acted in conjunction with Wei. These two brought this on themselves and now they have to pay for their ignorance and indifference to others. As one of my professors would say, 'too bad, so sad'. There are many who are outraged by the actions against Tyler, I am one of them.

There is the Law of Unintended Consequences:

Robert K. Merton listed five possible causes of unanticipated consequences:
1.Ignorance (It is impossible to anticipate everything, thereby leading to incomplete analysis)
2.Error (Incorrect analysis of the problem or following habits that worked in the past but may not apply to the current situation)
3.Immediate interest, which may override long-term interests
4.Basic values may require or prohibit certain actions even if the long-term result might be unfavorable (these long-term consequences may eventually cause changes in basic values)
5.Self-defeating prophecy (Fear of some consequence drives people to find solutions before the problem occurs, thus the non-occurrence of the problem is unanticipated.)

Unintended consequences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Excellent post,Jacie! I agree... and I also have no problem with Ravi being deported! In fact I feel that's a wonderful idea!
I too am outraged over the treatment that Tyler received from these two ignorant and hateful human beings. It sickens me to think of the feelings that Tyler must have felt over their cruel actions. It is a very sad realization that two snot nosed brats would feel it cute, funny or whatever, to treat someone as they did!

 

[KaraKitty]

Watching on TruTv now...I can understand being a bit nervous, but what is so darned funny? This witness (Mr. Chung) seems to be grinning or chuckling at nearly every question.

Yes, it was so uncomfortable to watch Chung … being the FIRST called to the stand and this being such a high profile case … Chung's grinning was so inappropriate. Maybe he was nervous but sheesh. I wanted someone to ask him "what is so funny" … :banghead:

 

[Jacie Estes]

Excellent post,Jacie! I agree... and I also have no problem with Ravi being deported! In fact I feel that's a wonderful idea!
I too am outraged over the treatment that Tyler received from these two ignorant and hateful human beings. It sickens me to think of the feelings that Tyler must have felt over their cruel actions. It is a very sad realization that two snot nosed brats would feel it cute, funny or whatever, to treat someone as they did!

Thanks, Tyler's death would never have happened, except for the actions of these two. Imagine having to go to classes, walk on campus and try to function with all eyes on you.
Ravi and Wei believed that they were entitled to watch someone having sex with someone else. wth That was a sophomoric action, driven by ignorance; to film him was malicious, it proves intent. It is time for these two to pull up their big people panties and take the punishment for their actions. Ignorance is no excuse in a court of law.