"Tape Recorder Man"

[thebigcookie]

I also wondered about security cameras. Were they not as commonly used at the time? You would think that would help greatly. I don't remember ever reading about there being security cameras at Wheaton Plaza at the time of the Lyon sisters disappearance or at that other mall Seminary South in Fort Worth when those three girls disappeared for that matter as well. I also forgot to point out earlier another post about another tape recorder man later. Go to page 7 of this thread and I saw a link to another site where someone who went to some school nearby called Sidwell said they were approached by a tape recorder man during gym class on a ball field. They said he looked somewhat like the sketch of the one associated with the Lyon sisters, so this obviously took place after. The coach did nothing to stop him but this person reported him to the principal and the school did an assembly on the dangers of talking to these kinds of people. I wonder who this man was, if he was the same one or a different one with that same interest. I also wonder when this incident took place. If it was during baseball season, it would have to be during the springtime. I wonder if it was in 1975, or if it was later, possibly 1976 or 1977?

I also think it wasn't tape recorder man that abducted the sisters because someone said they saw them walking home in the afternoon. Unless for some odd reason, trm knew their exact route, I think someone may have even watched them walk from home to the ma and then waited a few hours for them to come back and reached out and grabbed them. Somewhat like the Jacob Wetterling case in Minnesota many years later which I am currently reading on. Only difference there is the abductor asked the boys their ages then took only Jacob, and this one took both sisters. But I definitely believe the Welches are behind this.

 

[Richard]

Tape Recorder Man: a few comments...

I think that almost anyone who has a passion for something, like collecting, taking photos, gardening, bird watching, antique tractors, - you name it - might be seen as a bit odd by at least some folks. Cassette tape recorders had been around for a few years by 1975, and so there were probably a number of people who used them for various purposes. A man with a tape recorder and microphone, sitting on a planter at a mall, would not be all that strange or unreasonable under most circumstances. In fact, nobody had reported or complained about such a man (or men) seen at Wheaton Plaza and other area malls on previous occasions. There were some, however, who said that they felt the man was strange or acting inappropriately in retrospect - but they did not think it worth reporting to security at the time.

What puts the TRM in a position as a potential suspect or person of interest is that he was the last person reportedly seen talking to the Lyon Sisters prior to their disappearance. Additionally, he was seen leaving the area (walking toward Wards) immediately after "interviewing" the girls.

Although this person (or someone who closely resembled him) was seen on Saturday the 22nd, and Monday the 24th, and again on Tuesday the 25th with his tape recorder, he is not seen again in any of the malls after the girls disappeared. Many have suggested that he was worried about seeing the story and composite sketch and was scared off, but that was a full week later and he made no appearance in the intervening 7 days.

Any reasonable person with a legitimate explanation for their hobby or presence at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975 would have come forward to police to explain who they were and get the investigation on the right track, but that was not the case with TRM. At best, this guy was a pervert who just happened, coincidentally, to be there talking to the Lyon Sisters, while they were being stalked by a different pervert. But in my mind that explanation bends credibility too much.

TRM walking toward Wards is another indicator that he might have been involved, because the parking lot immediately behind Wards would have been a perfect location to sit in wait in a vehicle, knowing that the path most kids took into Kensington was through it. If for any reason the abduction had to be scrubbed at that place, a quick one minute drive would allow him to reposition anywhere in Kensington.

Who TRM was and what his exact purpose or role was are not certain, but he remains an integral part of the story.

 

[Rhett]

I have said this before on one of the threads that I believe TRMen were more frequent during the 1970's everywhere. I was born in 1964 so was 11 in 1975. I can remember seeing men and women with tape recorders in malls and large stores. I lived in Arkansas. This was during the time that people were asked to take part in poles and surveys, etc. I remember being questioned and recorded one time when I was young. I guess my point is that TRM could have been just a survey taker or he could have been a pervert. It just wasn't that unusual for there to have been a TRM at a mall during the 1970's. Of course Richard is correct in saying that it was strange that he didn't show up at all between the time of the kidnapping and the article about TRM.

 

[Richard]

Washington Post: First Article about TRM and first about reward for information.

Here is the article which appeared in the Washington Post newspaper on Tuesday morning, 1 April 1975. The Lyon Sisters had disappeared from Wheaton Plaza exactly one week before.

This article was accompanied by a pencil sketch of the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) which was drawn on Friday, 28 March 1975 by PFC Davis Morton of MCP. He made the sketch with help from "Jimmy" a 13 year old boy who had witnessed the girls talking to TRM on the day they went missing. It marked the first release of the TRM sketch.

Note the mention of a $7,000 reward just then being announced for the first time.

Note also that NO mention is made of any Long Haired Man - even though the LHM sketch was made earlier (on Thursday 27 March 1975) by the same police artist.
-----------------------------------------
Washington Post
Tuesday, 1 April 1975

Police Seek Man Seen Talking to Two Lyon Sisters
by Elizabeth Becker

Shortly before they disappeared from the Wheaton Plaza shopping center last Tuesday, the two missing Lyon sisters were seen talking to a 50-year-old, well dressed man who had a tape recorder and was apparently recording his conversation with them, Montgomery County police disclosed yesterday.

The police yesterday released a sketch of the man whom they said they were seeking for questioning in connection with the disappearance of Sheila Lyon, 13, and her sister, Katherine, 11. They are the daughters of John and Mary Lyon of xxxx Plyers Mill Road, Kensington.

Although police said they received the description of the man last Friday, they said they did not want to release it publicly "until the time was right ..... and all the leads were checked."

Police said they also had advised against the offering of a reward until all leads were checked. Yesterday, with police approval, WMAL and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists announced they are offering a $7,000 reward to the first person with information leading to the safe return of the girls. Lyon is an announcer for WMAL radio.

Last Friday, police said they were told that a man, described as a white male, about 6-feet tall, wearing a brown suit and carrying a brown briefcase, talked to the young girls at 1 p.m. outside the Orange Bowl Restaurant at Wheaton Plaza. The informant, police said, was a 13-year-old boy who knows the two girls well.

Police said the boy told them that he walked past the girls and the man and saw the girls speaking into a microphone attached to a cassette tape recorder inside the briefcase. After drawing up a composite sketch from the boy's description, police said they interviewed store officials and clerks in Wheaton Plaza and showed them the sketch, but did not come up with any leads. A WMAL spokesman said some people at the station also were shown the sketch before it was released, but that no one recognized the man.

"We're checking the sketch with known sex deviates and ... against everything we got," said Capt. Gabriel Lamastra, head of hte county's juvenile section "To be honest, I wouldn't tell you if we made a hit or not."

Meanwhile, police said they had abandoned their search of the immediate areas of the Lyons' home and the shopping plaza. When the two girls were reported missing, police searched the vicinity for six days looking for Katherine, who was wearing blue jeans and a red jacket, and Sheila, wearing a dark blue shirt and wheat-colored corduroys.

"We've run out of places to search ... the state police did check in the vicinity of Carksburg on a tip but nothing panned out," a police spokesman said.

Mr. and Mrs. Lyon were at home again yesterday, receiving more phone calls and visitors offering help and sympathy in the search.

"Police stopped by again today and there was a little more action. Personally, I think things are picking up," Lyon said. "There's no specific cause for my optimism ... but just because more is going on, I feel something will break."

Besides the reward announced yesterday, WMAL has printed 5,000 leaflets with photos and descriptions of the two girls and police have distributed them. Anyone with information about the girls is asked to call police at 946-xxxx.

 

[thebigcookie]

Saw this story today. It has nothing to do with the Lyon sisters but what immediately caught my attention was that the man in the sketch here somewhat resembles the sketch of TRM. I just had to throw that out here:
http://abc7news.com/news/young-girl-assaulted-in-sf-park-bathroom/407219/

 

[Mountain Mama]

First I want to thank Richard, Motherof5, Jeb, and the others who have been committed to this case. I was drawn to Websleuths after Morgan Harrington's 2009 abduction, and the Lyon Sisters is a case I became quite interested in as well. I tend not to post much, I guess at times I get freaked out because some of the other posts give me pause to think that perps are on here too, posting along side by side with those trying to help. Va. has seen its share of unsolved disappearances, but thanks to great police work in recent years we are starting to solve some of those. Anyways...

I grew up in Northern Va in the 70's and 80's. IMO Manassas is a pretty direct shot to Bedford County, VA. A perp leaving Wheaton, MD could head to Bedford via Route 28 out of Washington, D.C. For those unfamiliar with the area. Rt. 28 heads west from DC and goes through Manassas, VA and then ends at Route 29 near Culpeper. Route 29 is a popular route for urbanites traveling to central Va destinations like Charlottesville, Lynchburg, and the lesser-known Bedford. Point being, the girls may have in fact traveled through Manassas. Conversely, it seems rather brazen for an abductor to travel with the girls during daylight hours, so that is not something I would expect from an organized perpetrator. I agree with Richard that the criminal(s) involved were organized.

On a slightly different topic. After looking at photos of Debardeleben, I believe that I may have seen him doing the TRM act at Fair Oaks Mall (near Fairfax, VA) sometime in the late 80s. I had put it out of my mind, but when I saw his face it came rushing back to me. I vaguely recall being dropped off at Fair Oaks Mall with a girlfriend and there was a handsome man wearing a suit, with a tape recorder in one of the alcoves that people sit in outside the department stores. He was picking out very attractive girls to come talk into his tape recorder. Do any other sleuthers from the VA-DC area recall seeing someone who looked like Debardeleben at the Fair Oaks Mall or any other area malls? I'm just wondering if he might have been out on the prowl at Wheaton Plaza the day the girls were snatched. I think he looks like the sketch of the TRM. That nose. I've attached the sketch and a pic of M.Debardeleben for comparison purposes.

This is an excellent article, and features the sketch of TRM, as well as an argument in favor of M.D. being the TRM from the Lyons case, and hinting at his possible involvement in the case of the Missing Forth Worth 3:
http://kidnappingmurderandmayhem.blogspot.com/2010/12/who-was-tape-recorder-man.html
Pic of M.D.: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/debardeleben/evil_3.html

 

[Richard]

In this case, as in any other one, you have to sort through a lot of information. Some if it is undisputed fact, while other information is colored by word choice, assumption, conclusion, theory, comments, etc. There is also the possibility that misinformation has been intentionally introduced somewhere along the line - for what ever reason.

The hard part is to sort through it all and try to make some sense of it, or try to develop leads for further investigation.

That a Tape Recorder Man (or men) who used to go around Washington DC area malls attempting to speak with children existed is almost beyond dispute when you consider the numerous sightings by various individuals. That police considered TRM a potential suspect/person of interest is also undisputable, as evidenced by their composite drawing and 1975 press briefings on the subject. Police opinions on TRM have tended to vary over the years depending on which individual investigator is looking at the case.

But whether or not this Tape Recorder Man was responsible for or involved in the disappearance of the Lyon sisters - is what is unknown. Would his activities necessarily have indicated that he was also a child abductor, molester, or murderer? No, but his tape recorder activity would certainly rank as questionable to most people - and that questionable activity becomes even more suspect when it involves the Lyon Sisters and occurs so close in time to the last sighting of them. AND consider that it was also the last sighting of the Tape Recorder Man. All subsequent reports of sightings were reports by persons who saw him talking to children and young girls before 25 March 1975.

In considering any potential suspect or scenario in the Lyon case, one should consider whether or not the TRM fits, but his existence or description should not necessarily rule anyone or any scenario out.

Other stories/information could also be considered as leads or clues, such as the Ransom Calls or the Station Wagon Sightings. But they occurred in the days and weeks that followed the girls disappearance and at a time of heightened news reporting on the subject. This doesn't mean that they did not occur, but one has to consider alternative explanations or motives a bit more closely. Either or both could have been hoaxes. In fact, John Lyon and the police felt that the Ransom caller was perpetrating a hoax.

While the eyewitnesses who reported the Manassas station wagon may have been describing as accurately as possible exactly what they saw, it is possible that someone with a station wagon was perpetrating a cruel hoax based on what he had been seeing and hearing every day in the news.

The Manassas station wagon sighting was only one of several which resulted in tips to police. Others were determined to be mistaken identity situations. For example, a blue station wagon covered in bumper stickers was mentioned in press reports, but later it was traced to a woman who had been transporting her own two blonde daughters (similar in age to the Lyon girls) around the area.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

That's very interesting Richard, about how the TRM wasn't spotted AFTER March 25, 1975.

I don't know why, but for some reason, I haven't focused on the TRM very much.

Perhaps it is because I didn't realize the case had come back into the news in February 2014.

Since LLW was focused on so much and there was a sketch released of him, I wondered if TRM could have been an accomplice or just a coincidence of he also being there on his own.

Once RAW was mentioned, I wondered if he could've played that role.
However, IMO, I believe he used the same story that about 6 other females that have come forward and said that a security guard accused them of stealing and tried to lead them to the parking lot.

I may state my theory in that thread.

 

[Richard]

...

... Since LLW was focused on so much and there was a sketch released of him, I wondered if TRM could have been an accomplice or just a coincidence of he also being there on his own...

To be accurate, there was a sketch of an UNKNOWN Long Haired Man (LHM) made on 27 March 1975 after a description was given by a young girl to PFC Davis Morton of MCP. For some yet unexplained reason, that "LHM" sketch was not released to the public by Police until November 2013.

Later, in February 2014, MCP and the FBI conducted a joint press conference in which they named Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. as a person of interest. During that announcement, they again showed the LHM sketch and compared it side-by-side to a 1977 photo of Lloyd Welch and remarked about how much he RESEMBLED the sketch. They did not state that the sketch was of Lloyd Welch.

The sketch of The Tape Recorder Man (TRM) was also made by PFC Morton, after the description given 28 March 1975 by a 13-year-old boy who came forward to state that he had seen such a man speaking with Sheila and Kate Lyon shortly before their disappearance.

So, both sketches were made within 24 hours of each other, but only the TRM sketch was released in 1975. It is possible that the two persons (TRM and LHM) were working together, but it is also possible that they were only in the same area coincidentally - along with several thousand other people that day.

It is also possible that there may have been another person or persons involved, but not sighted or sketched. And, considering the fact that 39 years passed before the release of the LHM sketch, it is possible that other unreleased sketches might exist in MCP files.

While MCP and the FBI intentionally compared the LHM sketch with a photo of Lloyd Welch, it should be noted that several TV news teams covering the press conference also showed the origional TRM sketch (probably from their files) during the press conference.

The TRM sketch may also be connected to Lloyd Welch in a different way. It is very possible that he called in a tip to MCP in his attempt to claim a $7,000 reward for information leading to the recovery of the Lyon sisters on 1 April 1975. The same editions of the Washington Post and Washington Star newspapers that announced the reward for the first time also released the sketch of the TRM for the first time.

Could Lloyd Welch have been trying to tell MCP that he had seen the girls and TRM together? If he was indeed the Long Haired Man seen following and talking to the girls, then perhaps he did observe TRM also paying attention to them. Could he have been working with him?

 

[simplifymylife2014]

To be accurate, there was a sketch of an UNKNOWN Long Haired Man (LHM) made on 27 March 1975 after a description was given by a young girl to PFC Davis Morton of MCP. For some yet unexplained reason, that "LHM" sketch was not released to the public by Police until November 2013.

Later, in February 2014, MCP and the FBI conducted a joint press conference in which they named Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. as a person of interest. During that announcement, they again showed the LHM sketch and compared it side-by-side to a 1977 photo of Lloyd Welch and remarked about how much he RESEMBLED the sketch. They did not state that the sketch was of Lloyd Welch.

The sketch of The Tape Recorder Man (TRM) was also made by PFC Morton, after the description given 28 March 1975 by a 13-year-old boy who came forward to state that he had seen such a man speaking with Sheila and Kate Lyon shortly before their disappearance.

So, both sketches were made within 24 hours of each other, but only the TRM sketch was released in 1975. It is possible that the two persons (TRM and LHM) were working together, but it is also possible that they were only in the same area coincidentally - along with several thousand other people that day.

It is also possible that there may have been another person or persons involved, but not sighted or sketched. And, considering the fact that 39 years passed before the release of the LHM sketch, it is possible that other unreleased sketches might exist in MCP files.

While MCP and the FBI intentionally compared the LHM sketch with a photo of Lloyd Welch, it should be noted that several TV news teams covering the press conference also showed the origional TRM sketch (probably from their files) during the press conference.

The TRM sketch may also be connected to Lloyd Welch in a different way. It is very possible that he called in a tip to MCP in his attempt to claim a $7,000 reward for information leading to the recovery of the Lyon sisters on 1 April 1975. The same editions of the Washington Post and Washington Star newspapers that announced the reward for the first time also released the sketch of the TRM for the first time.

Could Lloyd Welch have been trying to tell MCP that he had seen the girls and TRM together? If he was indeed the Long Haired Man seen following and talking to the girls, then perhaps he did observe TRM also paying attention to them. Could he have been working with him?

Thanks Richard.
Let me clarify that I did not mean to say the sketch was of LLW, I meant to say the LHM sketch.

 

[Richard]

The Tape Recorder Man was probably the first publicly acknowledged "person of interest" in the Lyon case - although they did not use that term back then.

He was seen and described by at least two young boys on 25 March 1975 talking to Sheila and Kate Lyon. They reported having seen him sitting on a brick planter near the Orange Bowl Pizza take-out restaurant. He spoke with the girls and then immediately left the mall in the direction of Montgomery Wards.

On Friday, 28 March 1975, they described him to a police sketch artist who came up with the now famous sketch of the Tape Recorder Man (TRM).

Police took the sketch made of him (TRM) to Wheaton Plaza on Saturday and Sunday (29 and 30 March) and asked employees and persons there if they had seen him on 25 March, but reportedly could not find anyone who remembered seeing him. The sketch was released, along with the story about the TRM speaking to the girls, late in the day on Monday, 31 March 1975 and it appeared in all local newspapers and on TV Tuesday, 1 April 1975, exactly a week after the girls went missing.

A BIG question would be; When MCP showed the sketch (prior to public release) to mall employees, did they also show the recently released sketch of the Long Haired Man (LHM) at the same time? According to MCP, the LHM sketch was made the day before that of the Tape Recorder Man (TRM).

Why all the TRM open information to the public and press and all the comparitive secrecy about the LHM?

About 15 persons came forward to MCP following release of the TRM sketch and story to say that they had seen him at four or more other malls and on different occasions at Wheaton Plaza. Following interviews of those people, MCP artist Morton Davis made some slight changes to the origional TRM sketch.

Although nobody was identified by MCP as having seen TRM at Wheaton Plaza on Tuesday 25 March 1975 (other than the two boys), there has been a recent statement on a news site by someone who claims to have seen TRM speaking to Sheila and Kate near an escalator at the Mall that day (not near Orange Bowl). Could this be one of the two boys mentioned early on - or is it a separate sighting?

The other sketch - that of the Long Haired Man (LHM) - was made with the help of a girl about Sheila's age who claimed to have been walking around the mall with the girls. She reported to police on Thursday, 27 March 1975 that a young man in his late teens or early 20's had been following her and the Lyon sisters and "bothering" them.

Was her statement verified by MCP? Could they find anyone else at the time to substantiate that the girl was with Sheila and Kate? Did they find anyone else who had seen LHM?

None of the 10 eye witnesses (listed in an earlier post) mentioned seeing Sheila or Kate with another girl, and none of them mentioned seeing the Long Haired Man.

Is it because MCP could not verify the girl's story at the time that they did not release the sketch and story of LHM?

Or is it possible that they thought that they had already identified LHM, and determined that he was not a viable suspect?

Today, MCP and the FBI seem to think that the Long Haired Man was present and possibly involved in the girls' disappearance. Was he just a witness who had seen the girls talking to the Tape Recorder Man?

Was he working in concert with the Tape Recorder Man?

Or was it just a big coincedence that these two strange characters happened to talk to the girls shortly before they disappeared? Hard to believe.

It is even harder to believe some of the recent theories that Lloyd Welch was the LHM and that he was part of a larger conspiracy with his relatives to abduct the girls from the mall that day - and that TRM was just an innocent weird guy who happened to stumble into the middle of a big scheme - and then just as quickly stumble out of it without a trace.

 

[thebigcookie]

I'm still skeptical about TRM even being there that day. This boy Jimmy and his friend's story just seems so strange. Why didn't he report it sooner, and why was he smiling when he told it and mentioned wanting to be interviewed by TRM? Seems to me he just wanted attention and he got it. He may have seen TRM there another day or maybe at another mall that was not Wheaton Plaza and just threw it in there to make a story that would get him recognised. I still don't know if TRM was even at Wheaton Plaza that day. LHM seems like a more likely candidate to me for the disappearance of the girls and it is very possible that he is Lloyd Welch. But who knows, LHM and TRM could have been accomplices for all we know. I just hope that we can find the whole truth to this case by June.

 

[RichardLewis]

If we believe Jimmy's statement (which LE has for many decades), then TRM was at the mall the same day the sisters were. He was seen several times before, and at several other malls, but he was never seen again. Why did he never reappear? Was it just a coincidence that TRM and LHM were both at the mall the same time? Perhaps; since shopping malls are magnets for kids, and therefore also magnets for the weirdos that troll for kids for whatever purposes. Maybe impetuous Lloyd Jr. got to to the girls first. Has LE ever since stated that TRM is no longer a POI? Could Fred Coffey have been the TRM? Is there any connection between Coffey and the Welch clan or Thaxton, VA? Just for comparison sake, consider if there is any resemblance between the first TRM sketch and Fred's mugshot.

 

[Motherof5]

The Tape Recorder Man was probably the first publicly acknowledged "person of interest" in the Lyon case - although they did not use that term back then.

He was seen and described by at least two young boys on 25 March 1975 talking to Sheila and Kate Lyon. They reported having seen him sitting on a brick planter near the Orange Bowl Pizza take-out restaurant. He spoke with the girls and then immediately left the mall in the direction of Montgomery Wards.

On Friday, 28 March 1975, they described him to a police sketch artist who came up with the now famous sketch of the Tape Recorder Man (TRM).

Police took the sketch made of him (TRM) to Wheaton Plaza on Saturday and Sunday (29 and 30 March) and asked employees and persons there if they had seen him on 25 March, but reportedly could not find anyone who remembered seeing him. The sketch was released, along with the story about the TRM speaking to the girls, late in the day on Monday, 31 March 1975 and it appeared in all local newspapers and on TV Tuesday, 1 April 1975, exactly a week after the girls went missing.

A BIG question would be; When MCP showed the sketch (prior to public release) to mall employees, did they also show the recently released sketch of the Long Haired Man (LHM) at the same time? According to MCP, the LHM sketch was made the day before that of the Tape Recorder Man (TRM).

Why all the TRM open information to the public and press and all the comparitive secrecy about the LHM?

About 15 persons came forward to MCP following release of the TRM sketch and story to say that they had seen him at four or more other malls and on different occasions at Wheaton Plaza. Following interviews of those people, MCP artist Morton Davis made some slight changes to the origional TRM sketch.

Although nobody was identified by MCP as having seen TRM at Wheaton Plaza on Tuesday 25 March 1975 (other than the two boys), there has been a recent statement on a news site by someone who claims to have seen TRM speaking to Sheila and Kate near an escalator at the Mall that day (not near Orange Bowl). Could this be one of the two boys mentioned early on - or is it a separate sighting?

The other sketch - that of the Long Haired Man (LHM) - was made with the help of a girl about Sheila's age who claimed to have been walking around the mall with the girls. She reported to police on Thursday, 27 March 1975 that a young man in his late teens or early 20's had been following her and the Lyon sisters and "bothering" them.

Was her statement verified by MCP? Could they find anyone else at the time to substantiate that the girl was with Sheila and Kate? Did they find anyone else who had seen LHM?

None of the 10 eye witnesses (listed in an earlier post) mentioned seeing Sheila or Kate with another girl, and none of them mentioned seeing the Long Haired Man.

Is it because MCP could not verify the girl's story at the time that they did not release the sketch and story of LHM?

Or is it possible that they thought that they had already identified LHM, and determined that he was not a viable suspect?

Today, MCP and the FBI seem to think that the Long Haired Man was present and possibly involved in the girls' disappearance. Was he just a witness who had seen the girls talking to the Tape Recorder Man?

Was he working in concert with the Tape Recorder Man?

Or was it just a big coincedence that these two strange characters happened to talk to the girls shortly before they disappeared? Hard to believe.

It is even harder to believe some of the recent theories that Lloyd Welch was the LHM and that he was part of a larger conspiracy with his relatives to abduct the girls from the mall that day - and that TRM was just an innocent weird guy who happened to stumble into the middle of a big scheme - and then just as quickly stumble out of it without a trace.

I think LE may have put LLW with the sketch but blew it off due to his age at the time. Cold case detectives have seen murders committed by people in their teens and now it appears that LLW may have had help from his uncle. Who knows? Not sure what to make of the rest of it. Hoping for answers soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rhett]

Is there any resemblance between the sketch of TRM and RW? Could the uncle and nephew been working together that day?

 

[simplifymylife2014]

Rhett, the sketch is of a long haired guy who does resemble LLW, Jr.
RAW, Sr. was much older than that then and he probably had short hair.

There has been much discussion on this forum about their possibly working together.

 

[Rhett]

I was asking if the tape recorder man sketch could resemble RAW, Sr. Maybe RAW, Sr. and LLW, Jr. were working as a team at the mall that day to lure potential victims.

 

[winterrayne]

I was asking if the tape recorder man sketch could resemble RAW, Sr. Maybe RAW, Sr. and LLW, Jr. were working as a team at the mall that day to lure potential victims.

You can type raw sr name into Google images and one of the first pictures to come up is one from that time frame. Personally i dont see any resemblance to the trm sketch. I do see it in the post that Richard posted about Fred though.

 

[gregjrichards]

If we believe Jimmy's statement (which LE has for many decades), then TRM was at the mall the same day the sisters were. He was seen several times before, and at several other malls, but he was never seen again. Why did he never reappear? Was it just a coincidence that TRM and LHM were both at the mall the same time? Perhaps; since shopping malls are magnets for kids, and therefore also magnets for the weirdos that troll for kids for whatever purposes. Maybe impetuous Lloyd Jr. got to to the girls first. Has LE ever since stated that TRM is no longer a POI? Could Fred Coffey have been the TRM? Is there any connection between Coffey and the Welch clan or Thaxton, VA? Just for comparison sake, consider if there is any resemblance between the first TRM sketch and Fred's mugshot. View attachment 69504

I hope this monster Fred Coffey is never released he is evil looking and his mugshot gives me the creeps. It is very upsetting to think it was his face his victims last saw when they were alive. I personally don't think he killed Sheila and Katherine but I could be wrong.

 

[Richard]

TRM vs Fred Coffey...

If we believe Jimmy's statement (which LE has for many decades), then TRM was at the mall the same day the sisters were. He was seen several times before, and at several other malls, but he was never seen again. Why did he never reappear? ...

... Has LE ever since stated that TRM is no longer a POI? ...

... Could Fred Coffey have been the TRM? Is there any connection between Coffey and the Welch clan or Thaxton, VA? Just for comparison sake, consider if there is any resemblance between the first TRM sketch and Fred's mugshot.

Your point about TRM never being seen again is important. Many folks have suggested that "Of course he disappeared because of all the publicity and the sketch..." But it is significant to remember that the TRM story and sketch did not come out in public until a full week had passed since the girls' disappearance.

TRM HAD been seen by at least 15 other persons who came forward to say that they had seen him at various times at Wheaton Plaza AND at several other area malls in the days BEFORE Tuesday, 25 March 1975. And NOBODY came forward to say that he had been seen after that date. Perhaps all the previous sightings were preparations or scouting missions to his eventual goal of abduction.

A whole week (following the disappearance of the Lyon sisters) of no TRM sightings went by before the TRM story and sketch hit the news. IF - IF TRM was responsible for the girls' abduction - or actively involved in their disapearance, it would seem that his mission was complete and the TRM guise was no longer necessary to his ends.

Montgomery County Police have never stated that TRM is no longer a person of interest. Actually, they never called him by that term, but did state that they wanted him to come forward. They have never stated that they believe him to be a ficticious character or made-up story.

It was MCP investigators that first compared Fred Howard Coffey, Jr. with the Tape Recorder Man when he came to their attention in 1987. He had been arrested, tried, and convicted in North Carolina for numerous molestation charges against three children. He also had several previous convictions for child molestation. He was also the prime suspect in three child murders (one of which he was convicted for later that year).

MCP considered Coffey a potential suspect in the Lyon case and in the July 1975 murder of Kathy Lynn Beatty. In a 1987 MCP press conference, a spokesman stated that Coffey was the "best lead" they had in 12 years. Unfortunately, MCP could not positively place Coffey at either crime scene and in a few days, dropped him as an official POI/potential suspect. One case officer (referring to Coffey) said years later, "They never did let us talk to that boy down in the North Carolina prison."

There has been considerable discussion about Fred Coffey in this and other threads of this topic. It is significant to note that he was indeed a child molester who admitted to molesting over 100 children. He was convicted of the abduction and murder of a 10 year-old girl in 1979. He is a very strong suspect in other child abduction/murders.

Coffey left the Navy in September 1974 following a conviction of raping a 13 year old girl in Virginia Beach, VA. He was known to be in the Wheaton, Maryland area at least as early as 1 April 1975. He was hired and employed by VITRO laboratories and worked at their Aspen Hill, MD offices only a few hundred yard from where 14 year-old Kathy Lynn Beatty was found, violated, badly beaten, unconcious, and left for dead.

When news came out that she was in hospital still alive, Fred Coffey immediately blew town without notice to his employer. He did write to VITRO with a BS story for his abrupt departure - and a request for his last pay check immediately AFTER news that Kathy died without regaining conciousness. Of course, the timing of all this could just be a Big Coincidence - like so much of the rest of his life.

By October 1975, Fred Coffey was arrested with a 15 year-old girl in Virginia Beach, VA. Whatever his intent and actions were with her, he eventually pled guilty to "contributing to the delinquency of a minor".

One other bit of information - this regarding Fred's modus operendi: He often employed such items as metal detectors and fishing rods to attract the attention of children.

Regarding any connections between Coffey and the Bedford County Welch clan: I do not know of any specific evidence of that. However, Fred's hometown was Bristol, VA, which is not too far from Bedford County. One of his likely victims was 8 year-old Travis Shane King of Bristol, who was abducted in 1986 from Bristol, VA and whose mutilated body was eventually found in Tennessee. Fred Coffey was the last person seen with him.