The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 17th June - Trial Day 5 - Week 2

[Neuromancer]

I think his chest injuries can be explained by Allison's head rubbing and struggling against the area.

I think the facial injury is Allison breaking free from his grasp (dancers can be strong) and scratching.

Wow great illustration - thanks for that!

For what it's worth, that's how I imagined it too. Looking at the nail scratches they curve in towards his mouth, so imo they were either done by left hand while facing him, or right hand reaching behind. (Try this yourself, there's one way that feels like a natural arm movement and the other requires you to twist your wrist unnaturally. And yes, I've been sitting at my desk tonight clawing the air like an extra from Lady Gaga's Bad Romance video ;p )

But I think reaching behind is more likely, because if you were facing someone strangling you, you'd try to smash their nose or gouge their eyes instead, wouldn't you? Too hard to tell I spose, but just trying to think through it...

 

[alioop]

Snails, stop please!!

 

[they'll get you]

I was in court today. I just wanted to share with you all how broken Toni appears to be. I do not condone or approve of, or understand why she was involved with Gerard, a married man. She was under his spell, and trusted/believed everything he told her.

I do not believe that she is now under any allusion about the type of person he is. She seems to be truly sorry that she was ever involved with Gerard. She is a shell of a person.

I'm actually happy to hear that. I trust she's now experienced depression, anxiety rejection and loss.
You saw her first hand and maybe you're right but from those emails etc I think she's a covetous and relentless vixen who wanted to be Mrs Laydon clay.

 

[Neuromancer]

got a bit of catching up to do, but wanted to respond to this. She wanted to work on herslef, make herself better for him, felt like she wasn't good enough etc. I think it sounds like classic emotional abuse that Allison sustained for a long time from GBC. Told she was the problem, made to feel like somehow it was her fault he had the affairs. I feel sorry for all that she had to deal with in that marriage to him and that it/he made her feel less than what she really was.

Agree totally

 

[alioop]

If he is not there, is that a legal descion? Alioop would you have any insight as to why?
I hope he has a completely miserable week scrubbing toilets or similar locked up in Arthur Gorrie!

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I think it will be clear on Monday but unlikely to do with any witness.

 

[they'll get you]

Has anyone been think about WHY her mobile phone is missing? How could it be so incriminating that it had to be destroyed? Surely throwing it off onto her 'walking route' would have looked better for GBC.

Also, personally, I would have gone for abduction by person or persons unknown during the walk. The whole suicide theory seems to be a really hard sell, especially in terms of the distance she was found from home.

Had to go the suicide theory because of Allison scratches

JMHOO

 

[Neuromancer]

In that photo of the bed posted via the daily mail a couple of pages ago, I see what looks like a ventolin puffer beside the bed on the treadmill side. Wonder whose that is? There is also a bottle of Vicks chest rub near it. It's got me wondering about an asthma attack and denial of ventolin!

Doc would death from an asthma attack be consistent with the autopsy report and a possible cause of death?

That looked like his side of the bed to me. The other side has something pink and just looks a bit "girlier". And the phone recharger is on the Ventolin side too - somewhere in one of the statements there's something about his phone being recharged next to the bed that night.

Oops no I might be wrong - just did a google and found Allison was asthmatic -
"Dr Milne said Ms Baden-Clay’s medical history showed she had asthma "
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226950152264

 

[Jo04]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-sent-mistress-days-Allison-disappeared.html

Which side of the bed did she sleep in? Oneside looks perfect and the otherside looks as though someone has just pulled the covers up. Still catching up with today. Did I read correctly that one of the officers say that the bed was made before when he checked the rooms and then the bed was alittle disterbed before this picture was taken?

I am so happy about the gp and the psychologist testermony. Just comfirms what we have been saying all along she was not suicidal she was just stressed by the fact her husband was an adulterous, emotional abuser who had put her and her family in severe finacial distress. And toni poor little girl wanted the fantasy of this big shot realestate agent who would finally choose her over all others including the much loved Allison. Well here she is, as a witness in a murder trial. My how is your life now my darling? I think you'll think twice about getting in bed with a married man now, wont you. He is going to be spending alot more time in GAOL me thinks. The defenses suicide tatic has been shot out of the water. Sorry for my rant

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[Snails]

Snails, stop please!!

Just a subtle reminder what a razor can do. Beware!

 

[KG1]

I believe the defence goes last in the closing statements regardless of whether the accused gives evidence in his defence or not. The Judge always has the last say in his/her final directions to the jury.

The below link gives the order of closing addresses for criminal trial in Qld Ali. See the heading AT THE TRIAL.

http://www.not-guilty.com.au/

 

[KG1]

I think it will be clear on Monday but unlikely to do with any witness.

Maybe required to attend another court - bankruptcy, family court?

 

[Jo04]

The photos in the virtual tour shows the back window frames with gray/black finger print dust all over them. So I think the virtual tour was done after the police had been over the house.
In the 'tour' it also showed bags and cases on or around the bed, whereas the first reports where the bed was made with a just scarf or throw across it.
JMHOO

Ahhh I missed the virtual tour!!!!!! Where can I find the link thanks in advanced you wonderful insightful people xx

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[louisepiglet]

Not especially disagreeing with you personally here spratsmum, but your post got me thinking. Reading this made me try out my own fingernails on myself, and I have to say it would take a lot of effort to make those scratches, or more like gouges.

Any other ladies tried this? I've got mid-length strong natural sharpish nails (as opposed to thicker blunt acrylic nails) and there's no way I can scratch myself hard enough to cut the skin in an arm-extending, cat-scratch type movement. Even trying to dig my nails in hard and drag, it becomes too painful to continue long before any permanent mark is left on the skin.

Maybe I could practice on an apple or peach or something, but I think it would take quite sustained pressure and dragging to make those marks - eg clawing at someone's face while they're strangling you and won't let go (and their arms aren't free to block you). Also one of the scratches is a bit crooked, which would point to slower, sustained movement maybe?

I think that the police thinking they were scratches from fingernails speaks volumes. They would have seen many similar injuries when attending domestic violence crimes.

 

[kwash]

I went to marriage counseling with my husband after he had an affair. Our counsellor recommended just what was recommended to ABC & GBC. I was to make appointments with him to allow me to vent/ask for details about the affair. These were to be short in duration and the rules were that he had to answer my questions and listen to me without shutting down. I was to listen to him and not get angry. It is very emotional and difficult to talk about these things and this Is a technique to make it manageable for both parties.

With respect to the drawing of TMcH's apartment layout, this does not surprise me either. In the aftermath of my husband's affair I felt a need to know everything about it, even the tiniest detail. It gave me a window into it, gave me back some of the control they had taken from me by shining a light on it.

I guess my point is that for those who think the counsellor's advice was off - it wasn't. It helped me/us tremendously. If you haven't been through it it is very difficult to understand.

 

[kiwijayne]

I went to marriage counseling with my husband after he had an affair. Our counsellor recommended just what was recommended to ABC & GBC. I was to make appointments with him to allow me to vent/ask for details about the affair. These were to be short in duration and the rules were that he had to answer my questions and listen to me without shutting down. I was to listen to him and not get angry. It is very emotional and difficult to talk about these things and this Is a technique to make it manageable for both parties.

With respect to the drawing of TMcH's apartment layout, this does not surprise me either. In the aftermath of my husband's affair I felt a need to know everything about it, even the tiniest detail. It gave me a window into it, gave me back some of the control they had taken from me by shining a light on it.

I guess my point is that for those who think the counsellor's advice was off - it wasn't. It helped me/us tremendously. If you haven't been through it it is very difficult to understand.

Thanks for your courage in speaking up

 

[whitechapel]

Just a subtle reminder what a razor can do. Beware!

You mean like this?

 

[they'll get you]

Closer still. Mmmmm

NOT HAPPY JAN!

:truce::truce::truce::truce:
:truce::truce::truce::truce:
:tantrum:

 

[DrWatson]

I don't know why, but I always get a feeling that Flegg didn't hear anything and just wanted to be a part of things to get his face and name in the media.

I'm still intrigued, and a bit suss, about Fleggy's role in this. I mean - of all the people who live a couple of Km away who just happened to hear "blood-curdling screams" - it just HAPPENS to be Fleggy: he who was a friend of GBC's, and who had just knocked him back for a $400,000 loan, and who subsequently gives him a loaner iPhone that also happened to have surreptitiously recorded material on it that Fleggy was planning on using for political leverage.

Verrrry interessssting...!

And as for that roundabout - bring it on!

 

[Fuskier]

Did she threaten to go to Toni's house to have it out with her? Maybe to the BCs to cause a scene? He might have been desperate to stop her doing or seeing someone or someones. He seemed to think none knew about his not so very secret affair.. Totally dumb.

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We learned that Allison was a conflict avoider, so most unlikely would she attempt to 'confront' TM or the BC's IMO.

 

[Jo04]

Another thought is that he drew that picture and said we did it there, we did there ect. Rubbing her face in it. One comment in the diary that struck me was "you smell" what an ultra mean thing to say. The pic to me is him rubbing her nose in it and probably in detail telling her that toni did things to him that allison didnt or couldnt do to him.

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