The Doe Network, Part 3: Who is Princess Blue?

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Have a great day, all. Lanie, I hope things are better in your area re: the flooding...are you and your home and family okay?

Well, I didn't realize it until the second rain came through, but water did seep in underneath my bathroom carpet. We vacuumed it as best as we could, and I have a box fan going in there nonstop. Other than that, we are all doing great.
I've sent my girls to Gainesville today to volunteer, and tomorrow my son and I go. (One of my daughters works with me, and we are trading out the work/volunteer stuff.)
Anyway...if I can quit dilly-dallying at this website, and get my work work done, lol, I can probably get to cracking on my block. My ability to procrastinate is astounding.
Lanie
 
Hi Sloane,

First off let me say it is wonderful that you identified one of your UIDs. Have you figured out if he has any family? I sure hope we can figure out who Princess Blue is. I am happy to hear that LE are receiving a number of calls and hopefully they will lead to Princess Blue's identity. The letter we have been sending out to class alumni is on the SKM site and we have sent out probably a total of close to 150 letters so far. I am getting 20 more ready to go. They will hopefully go out tomorrow (6/26). I wish my printer would be more cooperatative. I have to feed each sheet of paper in individually and then flip over. If not the printer either jams or picks up a piece of paper it's not supposed to and the it messes up the whole process :cool: But I'm getting close to having 20 more going out. Wahooo!

We have all worked together wonderfully on this project and hopefully there will be more projects like this one down the road. I would like to thank you for all the input and help you have put into helping US find out who Princess Blue is. Please let us know if you find out any new information on her. Thanks!

OT: Has anyone seen our Lion around in the last few days?? I'm getting worried about her.


Good morning all-
Sorry I've been away for awhile...the good news is one of my UIDs was identified recently!! :eek: The bad news is that it was likely a "criminal" ending to his life, so that opens a whole other branch of questions and investigations...I'm tired, but so happy he has his identity and many questions have been answered.
Now if only we could get to that point with our Princess Blue...I think we are well on our way, in great part due to dedicated sleuthers like you guys! Kudos to all of you who are working so diligently on the spreadsheets. I'm so happy so many letters are ready to go out! THANK YOU, THANK YOU! I haven't been to SKM in awhile...is the letter to the alums finalized??
:blushing: I'm embarrassed to say that I had not really considered the finanacial dedication some of you are putting into this until I read that RKnowley's sisters are donating stamps to her. That's a great idea...and so kind of them. With all the work she has put in, it's nice she won't have to use her money on top of that. I don't know how else to express it, RKnowley, Lion, Jaded, Lanie, Sable, rich, MrsG, MissieMt, teons, jules and anyone else I failed to mention off the top of my head....but, THANK YOU!!!! :clap:

Have a great day, all. Lanie, I hope things are better in your area re: the flooding...are you and your home and family okay?
 
Hello friends:blowkiss:. Sorry for the absenteeism, but my internet has been down since last Thursday, and it just came back up about an hour ago! Yahoo! I am sorry I haven't been here, and I would have if I could have. Thank you for asking about me sloane and RKnowley:).

Congratulations times many sloane! I am so glad to hear that you had a match on a Prince Doe you probably worked very hard on. I am sorry to hear that there may have been foul play, yet your match may help solve it. Best to you in all of the wonderful things you do for humanity.

Great job RKnowley with your letters! I am still behind, and I need to catch up big time!

I think it is a good sign that people are calling in tips to Sgt. Coffman. It shows that Princess' story has reached some people, and eventually a good tip or two may come in. I am hoping and praying!

Oh, and sloane I love the way you described the GSD at the Starbucks. I bring my dogs there all the time for training and socialization. Well, the coffee is great and I get to use high speed internet, too!



Lion
 
Hi sleuther friends:). Dr. Cecil Wingo has joined WS just today, and I posted on a thread that he posted on in Cold Cases, I invited him to check out Princess's threads, and that we would love for him to give us ideas and suggestions. Dr. Wingo is a retired Harris County doctor from the ME's office, although he was not the doctor for our Princess' case as I understand it.

Lion
 
Hi all-
Well, I have much info. to post, although, at the end of the day I don't know that it brings us any closer to PBlue's ID. BUT, I wanted to follow up though, on some info. I said I would look into.

First of all, may I say WELCOME!! to Dr. Wingo, should he be reading this. He would be a valuable voice, not only from the past, but from the particular area this case is based in. Great! He helped to retrieve P.Blue's remains from the scene, but did not actually examine her at the ME's offc., at least not on record. Pls. correct me if I am wrong, Wingo. I'm sure everyone would like to ask you about the rings found w/ her. Namely, which fingers were they all on? I would imagine it would be difficult to recall unless you retained photos, and I know you were involved in SOOO many cases over the years! But we appreciate your input. We already understand that her death is most likely going to be attributed to one of the known serial killers of that area, perhaps a certain man who is already serving life in prison for similar charges. But that doesn't help to determine WHO SHE WAS, unless he decides to reveal that, if he even knew, could remember, or cares.
That is the main focus here, if I may speak for everyone, to find out her identity, no matter how sordid her story may be. We all understand it is very likely she was a prostitute. That doesn't matter... Ppl. have worked very hard and long to think through this case and take action in ways they believe to be helpful, non-intrusive and caring. Hopefully it will all pay off. So...Wingo, please join us!

BRB,
 
Rknowley and Lion,
Thank you for your kind words re: my recent case that was ID'd. :blushing: I was only a small part of the whole story, but it still affects me and his photo is up on my pegboard so I won't forget as time goes by. It is turning into a pretty nasty case, with ties to several others, so this won't be going away anytime soon. Yes, RKnowley, unfortunately he had family...many children and at least one parent that we know of. He did not live a stellar life and was not a great example for his kids, but many times tried to straighten out and possibly could have...if he had had more time.

Anyway, this has nothing to do w/ THIS case except to validate once again the value of DNA and the need of family members of the missing to submit, so that there can be a comparison to UIDs. I know it must be a horrible, incomprehensible thought for some, to think they have to give something to some LE person so that in the future it can be checked against to see whether or not their loved one is deceased...my thoughts and sympathy go out to all of you reading who have been personally affected by such a situation. But it IS an important step, and can provide answers...
 
Well, what I wanted to post earlier, but something came up (imagine that, I got interrupted...sarcasm icon!), is that I heard back from not only one, but two forensic anthropologists and an ME re: some of our questions. Basically Lion was probabaly correct (no surprise there :p ) in that it is logical to surmise that the PMI (time since death) for P. Blue was much more likely to have been at most two years, and more likely w/in one year. This is still an ASSUMPTION bec. it was never stated forensically and it is much too late to have it looked at now, but this is based on IF there was viable bone marrow for the drug testing. I say IF, because they (the dr's.) brought up a good point:
because the opiates test came back negative could very well mean it was because the marrow was not viable enough for a proper analysis for the drugs to show up. They could have pulled the marrow and run it for certain drugs, and have it say,"negative" but not bec. there WEREN'T drugs at one point in her system, but rather, bec. the marrow sample was "weak." All also agreed that it seemed strange that there was only an "opiates" test run, not a complete toxicology test. Which may suggest they had reason to suspect an opiate or opiate-derivative (heroin, codeine, morphine,methoadone) may be there...for example, syringes near the remains. Or...it could mean that there WAS a complete tox screen run, and we just don't know about it!:silenced:

All the professionals also agreed w/ the previous for. anth. with whom I spoke about this subject, in that there is no documentation to show how bone marrow breaks down (like a rate), but they say there IS less of it in older ppl., overweight ppl., and persons w/ certain illnesses. Interesting...of course, we don't know how much was there in P.Blue's bones, anyway. But we do know she wasn't old!

Hope this answers some of our inquisitiveness,
 
Well, what I wanted to post earlier, but something came up (imagine that, I got interrupted...sarcasm icon!), is that I heard back from not only one, but two forensic anthropologists and an ME re: some of our questions. Basically Lion was probabaly correct (no surprise there :p ) in that it is logical to surmise that the PMI (time since death) for P. Blue was much more likely to have been at most two years, and more likely w/in one year. This is still an ASSUMPTION bec. it was never stated forensically and it is much too late to have it looked at now, but this is based on IF there was viable bone marrow for the drug testing. I say IF, because they (the dr's.) brought up a good point:
because the opiates test came back negative could very well mean it was because the marrow was not viable enough for a proper analysis for the drugs to show up. They could have pulled the marrow and run it for certain drugs, and have it say,"negative" but not bec. there WEREN'T drugs at one point in her system, but rather, bec. the marrow sample was "weak." All also agreed that it seemed strange that there was only an "opiates" test run, not a complete toxicology test. Which may suggest they had reason to suspect an opiate or opiate-derivative (heroin, codeine, morphine,methoadone) may be there...for example, syringes near the remains. Or...it could mean that there WAS a complete tox screen run, and we just don't know about it!:silenced:

All the professionals also agreed w/ the previous for. anth. with whom I spoke about this subject, in that there is no documentation to show how bone marrow breaks down (like a rate), but they say there IS less of it in older ppl., overweight ppl., and persons w/ certain illnesses. Interesting...of course, we don't know how much was there in P.Blue's bones, anyway. But we do know she wasn't old!

Hope this answers some of our inquisitiveness,

Thank you sloane:). I am also thinking that if it had been as long as the 70's that Princess was out there there may have been NO bone marrow left, viable or not, for testing. Bodies left out in the open in hot, humid climates like the Houston area decompose very fast. Their teeth fall out in a shorter period of time as well, yet Princess has dentals on file.

Although, in a hot, dry climate bodies can mummify, and if buried in the cold will stay preserved for many years, that should not be the case here. But, because we do not know for sure, I will look at missing cases as old as the mid 70's. But, there will need other factors(height, ring, location missing from, etc..) for me to give it serious thought for a missing case from the mid 70's.

Sloane, I notice that you stated that Princess was very likely a prostitute. I know you don't care, and I sure don't care. Each unidentified Princess or Prince Doe deserves to be identified no matter what. But, I am wondering why you suggested that. Is it because prostitutes are more likely in general to be murdered by serial killers? Is it because a high number of the missing and murdered in the Houston area were prostitutes? Or is there something you know specifically that we don't know? You've got me thinking, friend:).

Lion
 
Hi all. Just wanted you to know that I have spent the last few hours addressing and licking envelopes. *ick* LOL But I am more than glad to do this for our Princess Blue. I'm going to the post office today to mail the next batch of letters and to check our post office box for any replies. Cross your fingers that today will be the day we receive positive information. :)
 
Hi all. Just wanted you to know that I have spent the last few hours addressing and licking envelopes. *ick* LOL But I am more than glad to do this for our Princess Blue. I'm going to the post office today to mail the next batch of letters and to check our post office box for any replies. Cross your fingers that today will be the day we receive positive information. :)

Try glue sticks, they are cheap, easy, and less messy than those water sponge thingys.

I'm so far behind in all the stuff I wanted to do. I leave on Monday, so I will do my very best to get as much done as I can before I go. My daughter is trying to register to this site as we speak, (well, as I type, lol), so I might get as many addresses as I can, then have her mail them out. She's signing up to a google email account, I will give you all her email addy, so you will know where this stuff is coming from.
 
Try glue sticks, they are cheap, easy, and less messy than those water sponge thingys.

I'm so far behind in all the stuff I wanted to do. I leave on Monday, so I will do my very best to get as much done as I can before I go. My daughter is trying to register to this site as we speak, (well, as I type, lol), so I might get as many addresses as I can, then have her mail them out. She's signing up to a google email account, I will give you all her email addy, so you will know where this stuff is coming from.

I just use a damp washcloth
 
Jaded, thank you for the work you've completed on the letters...would you like an Altoid? :p So...even one response yet? Even if it's not really anything to go on, will you let us know if ppl. write or call and tell us what they say? Even if they really have nothinjg to add, just knowing they responded is nice...sort of makes the attempt to "reach out" to them seem worthwhile. At least then we know some of them are actually opening the letters and taking it seriously.

And thanks again to everyone for spending your personal time and resources on this project. Someone mentioned a little while back (RKnowley, maybe??) that they hope this is one of many projects
"we" can work on together... maybe that would work out! I can think of at least a dozen that I know of that need more eyes...
warmly,
 
Thank you sloane:). I am also thinking that if it had been as long as the 70's that Princess was out there there may have been NO bone marrow left, viable or not, for testing. Bodies left out in the open in hot, humid climates like the Houston area decompose very fast. Their teeth fall out in a shorter period of time as well, yet Princess has dentals on file.

Although, in a hot, dry climate bodies can mummify, and if buried in the cold will stay preserved for many years, that should not be the case here. But, because we do not know for sure, I will look at missing cases as old as the mid 70's. But, there will need other factors(height, ring, location missing from, etc..) for me to give it serious thought for a missing case from the mid 70's.

Sloane, I notice that you stated that Princess was very likely a prostitute. I know you don't care, and I sure don't care. Each unidentified Princess or Prince Doe deserves to be identified no matter what. But, I am wondering why you suggested that. Is it because prostitutes are more likely in general to be murdered by serial killers? Is it because a high number of the missing and murdered in the Houston area were prostitutes? Or is there something you know specifically that we don't know? You've got me thinking, friend:).

Lion
Well, I was also told by my dr. contacts that when marrow is "all dried up" that they can still do bone scrapings to attempt to retrieve info. from what is clinging to the inside of the bone. I would think this would work more in searches for something that can withstand time and degradation like that, maybe not drugs or alcohol...that is only a supposition. I did not ask them that directly.

As far as thinking she was a prostitute, no that's not based on anything factual that I know, just experience (precedence). Prostitutes, unfortunately are "easy" targets, as are homeless persons, for violence, theft, abuse, intolerance, lack of patience/resources being exercised when there is a legal issue involving them, and yes, murder. Sorry to be so direct, but darn it, it is true. And yes, many victims/UIDs who are unclaimed, and seemingly not in the system are persons with such a life of crime...not only does it make it hard for ppl. to keep up w/ their whereabouts, but it makes it less noticeable when they have been gone from somwhere for awhile. And yes, there are many prostitutes in that particular region that have been victims of foul play. (In part, bec. Houston and its suburbs are so MASSIVE!!) Of course, this doesn't mean at all that she is any less impt. and that she in any way deserved this kind of inexcuseable ending to her young life. I can easily separate the two.

And..I could be wrong, of course. It could be nothing like this at all. Just don't want to get anyone's hopes up that this will be some beautiful story with a tragic end. If it turns out that she was a drug-user prostitute criminal who ran away from home as a teenager, many might think...why did she put herself in such a dangerous position in the first place? Well, I don't know if that is for us to question, even though it is natural. Our focus here seems to be staying on track of ID'ing her, so that's good.

Sorry, all, to have to be so blunt...:(
 
Well, I was also told by my dr. contacts that when marrow is "all dried up" that they can still do bone scrapings to attempt to retrieve info. from what is clinging to the inside of the bone. I would think this would work more in searches for something that can withstand time and degradation like that, maybe not drugs or alcohol...that is only a supposition. I did not ask them that directly.

As far as thinking she was a prostitute, no that's not based on anything factual that I know, just experience (precedence). Prostitutes, unfortunately are "easy" targets, as are homeless persons, for violence, theft, abuse, intolerance, lack of patience/resources being exercised when there is a legal issue involving them, and yes, murder. Sorry to be so direct, but darn it, it is true. And yes, many victims/UIDs who are unclaimed, and seemingly not in the system are persons with such a life of crime...not only does it make it hard for ppl. to keep up w/ their whereabouts, but it makes it less noticeable when they have been gone from somwhere for awhile. And yes, there are many prostitutes in that particular region that have been victims of foul play. (In part, bec. Houston and its suburbs are so MASSIVE!!) Of course, this doesn't mean at all that she is any less impt. and that she in any way deserved this kind of inexcuseable ending to her young life. I can easily separate the two.

And..I could be wrong, of course. It could be nothing like this at all. Just don't want to get anyone's hopes up that this will be some beautiful story with a tragic end. If it turns out that she was a drug-user prostitute criminal who ran away from home as a teenager, many might think...why did she put herself in such a dangerous position in the first place? Well, I don't know if that is for us to question, even though it is natural. Our focus here seems to be staying on track of ID'ing her, so that's good.

Sorry, all, to have to be so blunt...:(

Thank you sloane for being blunt:). I like the facts, and I like it told like it is. I think it is more helpful that way. I fully understand that prostitutes, drug users and such are easy targets for rape and/or murder. I was just wondering if there was something found with Princess or what ever that may have indicated she may have been a prostitute. And, I only wanted to know that to see if we could check that angle and get a lead. I would care no less about her and ID'ng her if I knew she was a prostitute. I imagine others here who care about her probably feel as you and I do.

Lion
 
Do we know for sure that the class ring came from Houston's Robert E. Lee High School? I only ask because I grew up in San Antonio (which is only three hours from Houston) and there's a Robert E. Lee High Schoool there as well.
 
Hi Jesstexas,
Yes, we are very certain the class ring came from Robert E Lee High School in Houston.
Here is a link with a photo of the ring:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/public_information/pr060707photos.htm
It shows clearly that the ring is from the REL HS in Houston, Texas.

Do we know for sure that the class ring came from Houston's Robert E. Lee High School? I only ask because I grew up in San Antonio (which is only three hours from Houston) and there's a Robert E. Lee High Schoool there as well.
 
Yes, indeed it does, RKnowley - thanks! It's so hard to believe that they haven't been able to figure out who she is yet - that ring is such a good clue.
 
Jess, that is for sure. She sure is a mystery girl. I hope we are able to figure out who she is. That would be wonderful. If you run across any possibilities on who Princess Blue may be please let us know. :)

Yes, indeed it does, RKnowley - thanks! It's so hard to believe that they haven't been able to figure out who she is yet - that ring is such a good clue.
 
Jaded, thank you for the work you've completed on the letters...would you like an Altoid? :p So...even one response yet? Even if it's not really anything to go on, will you let us know if ppl. write or call and tell us what they say? Even if they really have nothinjg to add, just knowing they responded is nice...sort of makes the attempt to "reach out" to them seem worthwhile. At least then we know some of them are actually opening the letters and taking it seriously.

And thanks again to everyone for spending your personal time and resources on this project. Someone mentioned a little while back (RKnowley, maybe??) that they hope this is one of many projects
"we" can work on together... maybe that would work out! I can think of at least a dozen that I know of that need more eyes...
warmly,

An Altoid would have been lovely. LOL I was glad to do it. A few seconds of *ick* will be worthwhile if we can find the identity of Princess Blue. I also went through the other blocks of the list and added addresses when I found them. Hope no one minds that I reached outside of the block that I was working on. I was motivated this morning.
I just use a damp washcloth
Good idea!!
Try glue sticks, they are cheap, easy, and less messy than those water sponge thingys.

I'm so far behind in all the stuff I wanted to do. I leave on Monday, so I will do my very best to get as much done as I can before I go. My daughter is trying to register to this site as we speak, (well, as I type, lol), so I might get as many addresses as I can, then have her mail them out. She's signing up to a google email account, I will give you all her email addy, so you will know where this stuff is coming from.
Lanie, is she applying here or over at someoneknowsme.com where she will have access to the spreadsheet? Let me know. We do accept free email accounts. All of our new registrations are not validated, but we do check to make sure it's not the forum spammers who have been driving us nuts lately. We just felt that it would be easier for us to not have validation if someone who got a letter wanted to register - they wouldn't have to wait. We can deal with the spammer problem one internet gnat at a time. LOL

Well, I was also told by my dr. contacts that when marrow is "all dried up" that they can still do bone scrapings to attempt to retrieve info. from what is clinging to the inside of the bone. I would think this would work more in searches for something that can withstand time and degradation like that, maybe not drugs or alcohol...that is only a supposition. I did not ask them that directly.

As far as thinking she was a prostitute, no that's not based on anything factual that I know, just experience (precedence). Prostitutes, unfortunately are "easy" targets, as are homeless persons, for violence, theft, abuse, intolerance, lack of patience/resources being exercised when there is a legal issue involving them, and yes, murder. Sorry to be so direct, but darn it, it is true. And yes, many victims/UIDs who are unclaimed, and seemingly not in the system are persons with such a life of crime...not only does it make it hard for ppl. to keep up w/ their whereabouts, but it makes it less noticeable when they have been gone from somwhere for awhile. And yes, there are many prostitutes in that particular region that have been victims of foul play. (In part, bec. Houston and its suburbs are so MASSIVE!!) Of course, this doesn't mean at all that she is any less impt. and that she in any way deserved this kind of inexcuseable ending to her young life. I can easily separate the two.

And..I could be wrong, of course. It could be nothing like this at all. Just don't want to get anyone's hopes up that this will be some beautiful story with a tragic end. If it turns out that she was a drug-user prostitute criminal who ran away from home as a teenager, many might think...why did she put herself in such a dangerous position in the first place? Well, I don't know if that is for us to question, even though it is natural. Our focus here seems to be staying on track of ID'ing her, so that's good.

Sorry, all, to have to be so blunt...:(
Thank you for being blunt. It doesn't matter to me what Princess Blue's past may have been. In my mind she was a human being. Someone that had a personality and whether she had to prostitute or thieve to survive, that doesn't change the core person. Someone, somewhere loved her because she was "family". Families can look past social immorality because sometimes family is all ya' got. I think of Princess Blue as family. She's ours now to love and care about until we can give her back to the people that loved her before us.
 
I will most certainly let everyone know if we get any responses. There were four returned envelopes for insufficient address. IMO, that's GREAT considering the amount of letters that have been sent out. Great sleuthing, friends!!
 
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