The Girlfriend's Statement

[Dr.Fessel]

I have real feelings about the tragic loss of Trayvon's life. My heart breaks for Sybrina, in particular. She is a gentle soul. I have enormous admiration and respect for her. I also was a single parent and raised 3 teens. I identify with her to a great degree and my heart hurts that she lost her son.




This simply isn't fair - no need to paint with such a broad brush here.

This case is different because it is a self-defense case. Very few websleuthers are accustomed to following a self-defense case. I am disturbed by the number of people who just seem willing to totally disregard the US Constitution - seemingly without a second thought just throw the presumption of innocence out the window. This has been happening since the very beginning of this case. It is downright frightening to see this happening. And I don't just mean here at WS. Another poster used the phrase today "emotional hysteria". At some point, we ALL have a responsibility to control the emotions and stop the "right fighting".

I hate the labeling - pro-TM or pro-GZ. I can be both and it is not a conflict. I simply want to know the FACTS. All the noise makes it hard. I want to keep an open mind and understand the truth. I don't really care where that leads me. Just because I am not screaming from the rooftops for GZ's head, doesn't mean the evidence won't lead me there eventually. I just haven't seen it yet. And it isn't cool to assume that those same people are racists or victim-bashers. I'm a paralegal, so I am sure my perspective is a bit different in that sense. I'm nearly always considered pro-prosecution in most every case I follow here, however this is a self-defense case and I know that the SYG law is going to be THE issue here.


okay, off my soapbox now.

BBM

That is not true. This is a charged murder case. The defendant has plead not guilty to it.

In every case like this here on WS people choose sides and because we are not a jury or part of the court system we are not held to the presumed innocent under the constitution. We do not met out punishment or grant immunity. We make assumptions, we argue points and look at evidence and let our thoughts be known as to guilty or not guilty.

Nobody has disregarded the constitution on here because they can't. IMO

 

[pcrum12]

Imo, the defense has quite a lot to work with, and girlfriend's story is just the beginning. That's what happens when you set someone up and people get interested.

I honestly didn't expect the medical records or the photos to verify George's injuries to the extent that they did. I am more thoroughly convinced then ever that this was exactly what I thought -- a pc, race-baiting railroading. The fact that George had to be, and was, turned white before he could be villified is just sickening. I'm contributing to his defense fund.

amen! me too!

 

[Lovelymountains]

BBM

That is not true. This is a charged murder case. The defendant has plead not guilty to it.

In every case like this here on WS people choose sides and because we are not a jury or part of the court system we are not held to the presumed innocent under the constitution. We do not met out punishment or grant immunity. We make assumptions, we argue points and look at evidence and let our thoughts be known as to guilty or not guilty.

Nobody has disregarded the constitution on here because they can't. IMO

Quite right. While the Constitution must be obeyed in a court of law, since we have no power to convict or absolve GZ, it makes no difference what we conclude insofar as a verdict is concerned. Again you are right.This is a murder case and GZ has been indicted for Second Degree Murder. I believe he has pled "Not Guilty." The trial will determine whether or not he is guilty of that charge. So far, some of us think he is and some think not. We seem to see the evidence from different viewpoints. IMO, though, that's what an internet crime forum is for. That's what we do.

 

[rossva]

BBM and yet, until very recently, we had very little to no access to what evidence there is, and do not know what evidence there still is to be revealed, but many have declared GZ guilty based on what the media has reported.

BBM

That is not true. This is a charged murder case. The defendant has plead not guilty to it.

In every case like this here on WS people choose sides and because we are not a jury or part of the court system we are not held to the presumed innocent under the constitution. We do not met out punishment or grant immunity. We make assumptions, we argue points and look at evidence and let our thoughts be known as to guilty or not guilty.

Nobody has disregarded the constitution on here because they can't. IMO

 

[pcrum12]

Well,IMO that's the problem ,some posts in this thread seem to have no feelings and I just wonder what makes posters in a victim friendly forum post with no empathy whatsoever towards the victim and the victims family.
What makes this case different that some people are indifferent to this hardcore loss of a human life???? A 17 year old,still a child? Yet you talk about "no feeling"What makes some posters have "no feeling" towards Trayvon,his girlfriend,his parents? What is it? I would really like to know.

In my POV/Opinion, everyone here hates that this young 17 yr old has died. However, some of us tend to also look at the other victim in this case as well, GZ. From my prospective, this case is not cut and dry. Most of the evidence thus far is pointing to a self defense case. And this has with no doubt in my mind ruined this man's life. I just see no evidence at this point that he did anything wrong. IMO, he did not racially profile this young man, and he shot only after screaming for help to no avail. It is clear he was beaten. And, on top of that, he did call police to report this stranger in the community.

As far as the family, they must be devastated. I truly feel for them having lost their son. However, their actions after the fact has raised a lot of questions as to their intentions. Maybe they too are a victim, not only for losing their son, which is a given, but also having been taken advantage of by these race baiting "advocates". I think IMO it's quite clear what their motivation is.

The "g/f", IMO has put herself in the position she's in. Not reporting what she heard is very troublesome. Not only did she not immediately report, it was weeks. And like it or not, her tweeter and fb does not one iota show that she was in the least bit concerned.

JMO and all that jazz.

 

[Maxim]

I just want the facts and the truth about BOTH of them. Both have a past that is less than perfect. Neither is a martyr or saint. I believe both played a part in events that night and I will wait for the trial for the truth to come out.

BBM
Excellent post! Pardon me for pulling out only one part, but this expresses my view, too.

If you change the scenario, make GZ equally black, could the very same thing have happened? My response is "oh, yes!"

 

[mdana]

BBM

That is not true. The is a charged murder case. The defendant has plead not guilty to it.

In every case like this here on WS people choose sides and because we are not a jury or part of the court system we are not held to the presumed innocent under the constitution. We do not met out punishment or grant immunity. We make assumptions, we argue points and look at evidence and let our thoughts be known as to guilty or not guilty.

Nobody has disregarded the constitution on here because they can't. IMO

Yes, but how many are self-defense cases? It is a whole different dynamic, which I don't think websleuths is capable of handling well (in terms of a reasoned thoughtful debate) due to the victim advocacy ethos. My only long-term exposure in any case here was the Meredith Kercher murder case. I thought the misleading propaganda, and sometimes slanderous accusations that were leveled at the accused (eventually acquitted) RS and AK were disgraceful.

The problem is too many times the assumptions have no bearing on the actual facts, sometimes not even on reality as most people would know it. Too often, I have read speculation that reads more like someone's idea of an episode of the Mentalist or a Lifetime movie, than informed conjecture on this specific case. I have noticed this other cases I have just perused and not commented. -JMO

 

[claudicici]

The problem for me is that some people have concluded that they know her identity and have written things based on that. I am not at all convinced that they are right. We won't know for sure until the trial because her name is not going to be released.

ITA,that's another thing,I always felt the person who Tray talked to and is the witness is not the one we assume.There is someone I really think is her but of course we can't discuss it.

 

[SwampMama]

There's plenty of hostility to go around in this case, from both sides. Personal attacks have been dealt with quickly by the ever wonderful, but highly overworked mods. It just seem a little disingenuous to talk about being open minded when your post pretty much slams the "pro TM" posters and you have fear of posting an opinion. I'm confused.

The "pro Trayvon" supporters that I supposedly "slammed" are the ones who are overzealous, aggressive and hostile. Did I not mention that? I believe I said "some", not ALL and I gave an example (the TB myspace name) as an example of how far reaching some of the TM supporters are in their quest to paint George as evil and how that hurts their case. I have seen more people who are overly zealous on the TM side, not the GZ side. I would be just as turned off about it if there were GZ supporters on here acting that way but I have not seen that very much, but perhaps I missed that because I have not read every thread and post.

Anyway, my post was OT and I apologize for that. I hope i was able to clear up some of your confusion. But I stand behind what I said 100% and support your right to your opinion. let's just leave it at that.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Yes, but how many are self-defense cases? It is a whole different dynamic, which I don't think websleuths is capable of handling well (in terms of a reasoned thoughtful debate) due to the victim advocacy ethos. My only long-term exposure in any case here was the Meredith Kercher murder case. I thought the misleading propaganda, and sometimes slanderous accusations that were leveled at the accused (eventually acquitted) RS and AK were disgraceful.

The problem is too many times the assumptions have no bearing on the actual facts, sometimes not even on reality as most people would know it. Too often, I have read speculation that reads more like someone's idea of an episode of the Mentalist or a Lifetime movie, than informed conjecture on this specific case. I have noticed this other cases I have just perused and not commented. -JMO

This is not a self defense case. This might be a case where the defendant declares he did it in self defense but he has not done that in the court yet and still it will be a murder trial unless he claims SYG before a judge and wins before the trial.. I am sure we have covered a lot of cases here at WS where someone claims self defense.

Now it appears he has claimed SYG in his confessions (and yes they are considered confessions now and that is why they have not been released) but at this point and in the future it will be a murder case.

There is nothing wrong here at WS with speculation that reads like a lifetime movie or the mentalist as long as they follow the rules and it can be very eye opening and thought provoking. I commend all Websluthers that take the time to truly think about a case and enjoy doing so myself. IMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

BBM and yet, until very recently, we had very little to no access to what evidence there is, and do not know what evidence there still is to be revealed, but many have declared GZ guilty based on what the media has reported.

That might be true and it is alright here. I admit I formed an opinion as soon as I heard the 911 tapes and read the police reports.

 

[stmarysmead]

I'm still reading the doc dump but on page 16-17 the SPD is trying to unlock the phone. First they had been hampered by the phone not working (possibly from getting wet on 2/26) and then later they can't get past the swipe code without the PIN number for the account. They contact TM's father on March 5th asking for the PIN and TM's father tells the SPD that they he is going to talk to his lawyer before giving the investigators that information. I've seen no further mention of the phone after that date. It looks to me like SPD took the proper steps to find out if there had been a useful phone/ear witness and they were blocked by Crump.

Has there ever been a reason given why TM's Dad had to speak to a lawyer before giving them TM's pin? No disrespect but puzzlement as to why he and Crump wouldn't want police to have EVERYTHING they need to make a case? Has this been explained? What could be a potential problem from their standpoint that might be discovered on that cell? I can't think why they would object.

 

[Omachka]

BBM and yet, until very recently, we had very little to no access to what evidence there is, and do not know what evidence there still is to be revealed, but many have declared GZ guilty based on what the media has reported.

...and yet we are each entitled to our own opinion by the TOS of this wonderful forum. I truly don't understand why there is so much back and forth and quibbling over semantics and personal opinion with this case. Sometimes I have to look at the top of the page and make sure I'm still on Websleuths. In fact on one thread opposing opinions were not welcome to discuss that subject.

Ok now I will step off my soapbox too.

This is a tough case and I think it is quite likely that both were fighting. My opinion is that TM was defending himself from a man he thought meant him harm. GZ was the only one of them who had a chance to change the outcome. It was a situation he instigated by not letting LE do their own job.

I think the girlfriend is doing the best she can to tell the truth based on her own perceptions of what she heard that night. It did not appear to me that she was embellishing. Did she make some errors in how she handled what she heard? IMO yes she did but they were based on fear, immaturity and shock. Please remember she is a 16 year old girl who has gone through a huge tragedy.

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm going to share something, while not the same type of experience this young lady had, that happened to me years ago while I was in high school. I had a close friend that I had known for only a year. We were in one class together as he was a senior and I was a junior. We were lab partners in that class and talked about plans for the future, problems with girlfriends/boyfriends, etc. One weekend he, his best friend, and his best friends little brother decided to go camping on one of the islands on one of our lakes. I, along with other mutual friends, tried to talk him out of it as the weather was predicted to be rather rough that weekend. They decided to take a chance and go anyway. Sure enough, on that Saturday we had a bad storm and the lake waters were extremely rough. The only way out to the island was by boat and they only had a "john boat" to use. I was worried all weekend but did not know his parents so I could not call them to find out if he was ok or if they had talked to him. On Monday morning, as soon as I walked into school, two of my closest girlfriends pulled me aside to a quiet corner to tell me the horrible news they had heard while watching tv. All three had not made it home. A search was taking place. The little brother was found first, he was tied to the boat with a life jacket on. The best friend was found later that same day not to far from the boat also with a life jacket on. My friend was not found for another couple of days. During that time I told my parents very little about what I was feeling, I kept it to myself. I wanted my dad to take me out on the lake in his boat to go look for my friend. Fortunately, he being the more mature person, told me no, to let the authorities handle it. I felt tremendous guilt. I blamed myself. If only I could have tried harder to talk my friend into not going. Did it make sense to blame myself? Not really but I did.

My point in sharing this is that I am personally very tired of seeing posts that attempt to place some sort of blame on this young lady. We have no idea what she is going through, what she is feeling. I wish that others would put themselves in her position. Think about how it would feel to know that someone you care about died shortly after you last spoke with them. Then think about how it would feel to have complete strangers question your actions, your thoughts, your grief and wonder, heck even debate, if you were correct in the way you handled yourself.

MOO

 

[jjenny]

Even if she wasn't a g/f, as a friend, I don't doubt she is very upset by what happened to Trayvon. But in my opinion, friends and relatives are not exactly "independent" witnesses, so I interpret whatever she heard over the phone with that in mind. And to me, her story doesn't seem to be all that different from Zimmerman's. Trayvon asked Zimmerman why Zimmerman followed him.
Zimmerman responded with what Trayvon was doing there (which appears to be what Zimmerman wanted to know all alone). Then she heard some sort of noise and the head set fell off. I do think that scenario is similar in both version, even if there are differences on what exactly was said. She obviously didn't witness Zimmerman hitting or pushing Trayvon, so she is speculating to that. But there are no injuries to Trayvon to support the idea Zimmerman ever hit him.

 

[chefmom]

Let me preface this post by first saying that I lubz all my fellow WS posters, regardless of whether we agree on cases or not.



However, I have to say, I find it somewhat odd that I am seeing some posters on here who are berating this alleged girlfriend for not reporting what she heard to anyone or for allegedly waiting so long to report it to anyone, because I recall many of these same posters defending these same actions in another recent Florida case where a young mother failed to report her daughter missing for 31 days. In that case, many felt that we could not assume she was guilty because she didn't report because everyone dealt with grief differently, or she may have been afraid. Yet, now, this young woman isn't afforded the same.



Just something to think about. IMO

 

[Just K]

That might be true and it is alright here. I admit I formed an opinion as soon as I heard the 911 tapes and read the police reports.

Dr F, I too started at the beginning. I listened to the NEN call from GZ, then the 911 tapes and read the initial bulletins and updates from the SPD. I specifically looked for unedited recordings with no timestamps and no commentary. This was either the day of the bond hearing or the night before. I posted the very first link, in the WS's MEdia Thread, to the picture of GZ's head, that ABC News exclusely released, the morning of the bond hearing. One half hour later, I watched the entire uninterrupted CCTV video (LIVE) and that is where I first began to form my opinions as to the character of the defendant George Michael Zimmerman.

(On my local news the day before the bond hearing I heard a snippet about SF not wanting an apology from GZ...in summary it was reported that she felt the apology was too late in coming...)

I listened carefully to GZ go against the explicit wishes of the family and even though he went to the stand to address the court, he spoke directly to TM's parents. In a very matter of fact way he gave condolences and never apologized for his actions...for shooting their son and causing him to die. I watched the prosecutor question GZ and listened to his convoluted answers about his many and varied statements to SPD.

BY NOW; I was beginning to see some major character flaws re: GZ.

Within three days of the bond hearing, M O'M comes on TV and tells us that after trying to claim indigent status for a reduced bond where neither M' O'M nor anyone in GZ's family nor GZ himself thought it wise to either check the balance of the donation site or to tell the court that GZ had a balance of over $204,000 and had already withdrawn some $50,000+ from that account.

Then, I went to the VA Court Records to research GZ's criminal and civil history and finally to the Florida records in reference to his Florida court criminal & civil records.

I researched his College and further determined that GZ has misrepresented his Degree plan. He was a General Studies Major in a yet to be completed two year Associates of Arts Degree (AA) as opposed to the Associates of Science Degree (AS)In Criminal Justice.

I read the NW guidelines and put all of this into context with GZ's call to the SPD NEN and compared all of that to his actions.

With all of these facts, as opposed to opinion and commentary, I formed my basic opinion as to the character of GZ. And stated that opinion on 4/20/2012.


Then, on April 30, 2012, a member found his MySpace Page from 2005...not the controversial one, which to this day I have never seen. M'OM confirmed this to be that of the defendant.

Just last week I watched one interview with Geraldo Rivera, Sabrina F, Tracy M & B Crump. (That was the first time I listened to anything from the family members.) I have yet to listen to any comment by JO or FT. I do not have cable, direct or satellite TV and the first National Network News that I saw re: the case was last night re: the doc dump.

I have watched a couple news stories in the past ten days that have been linked here by posters. And now, I read every page of the doc dump, looked at the pictures of where evidence landed and how far TM's body is from that evidence. I have also listened to the released audio of witness reports.

I am reasonably certain that there are a vast number of people who like some of the WS members, represented in this forum, have been equally diligent in their patient observations of this case and the manner in which events have unfolded.

I am confident that I came to this process of elimination through unbiased research and observation and that many others have as well.

 

[rossva]

BBM IIRC that young mother was found not guilty in a court of law later, even though many assumed she was guilkty from day 1.

Let me preface this post by first saying that I lubz all my fellow WS posters, regardless of whether we agree on cases or not.



However, I have to say, I find it somewhat odd that I am seeing some posters on here who are berating this alleged girlfriend for not reporting what she heard to anyone or for allegedly waiting so long to report it to anyone, because I recall many of these same posters defending these same actions in another recent Florida case where a young mother failed to report her daughter missing for 31 days. In that case, many felt that we could not assume she was guilty because she didn't report because everyone dealt with grief differently, or she may have been afraid. Yet, now, this young woman isn't afforded the same.



Just something to think about. IMO

 

[wowitsdark]

\

My point in sharing this is that I am personally very tired of seeing posts that attempt to place some sort of blame on this young lady. We have no idea what she is going through, what she is feeling. I wish that others would put themselves in her position. Think about how it would feel to know that someone you care about died shortly after you last spoke with them. Then think about how it would feel to have complete strangers question your actions, your thoughts, your grief and wonder, heck even debate, if you were correct in the way you handled yourself.

MOO

While I understand what you are saying, one thing that is significantly different is that the situation with your friends had to do with an accident. In TM's situation, the possibility existed that someone was solely responsible for *murdering* him.

I certainly understand that she's young and her emotions and actions lack the maturity we would expect from an adult. But if I had heard something that gave me the impression that one of my closest friends - possibly a boyfriend - had been murdered and the murderer was accusing my friend of starting it... and I knew differently based on what I had heard... and his parents, people I had possibly known since kindergarten, well... I have to think I would say something.

 

[tehcloser]

She may have been trying to say something. Perhaps her parents didn't want to hear it for whatever reason and tried to keep her out of it. We just don't know.