The Girlfriend's Statement

[TorisMom003]

No, she never says that. But she does have Trayvon asking the first question. So that suggests to me that at the very least Trayvon stopped and faced Zimmerman.

And that question was? If we are going to use the fact that Trayvon asked the first question then we have to look at what that question was. A person being followed by a stranger does have the right to ask why that stranger is following them. It does not indicate that Trayvon started the fight, simply that he questioned why he was being followed. If we want to look at it as Trayvon instigating the fight or altercation then I say that we have to go further back than that. If Zimmerman had not followed Trayvon then the question would not have been asked in the first place. There again it leads to Zimmerman being the instigator and not Trayvon.

MOO

 

[jjenny]

Thank you. But GZ said he stopped following TM and was returning to his truck when TM jumped him. So her statement IMO certainly does not support GZ's. TM may well have, and IMO probably did, stop and faced Zimmerman. But that is nowhere near the same thing as following him and jumping him from behind as GZ supposedly stated.

Again not directed at you, just jumping off from your post.

I don't think Zimmerman ever claimed Trayvon jumped him from behind. My understanding of the story is that Zimmerman claims Trayvon approached him and they exchanged words.
Of course we don't have the actual statement from Zimmerman yet.

 

[wowitsdark]

In the sworn interview recorded on April 2, which runs more than 22 minutes, the unidentified 16-year-old said Mr. Martin described a man who was "crazy and creepy" and on the phone, watching him from a vehicle before he started to follow him on foot.

Link: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...-creepy-man-following-him-friend-says-636631/

So for her story to support Zimmerman's, she also has to say at some point that TM turned around and followed Zimmerman back.

Did she? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

It has been stated here that since it was dark and raining that GZ wouldn't have been able to see TM well enough to characterize him as 'on drugs or something..."

But if TM said GZ, sitting in his vehicle, was acting "crazy and creepy", well... wasn't the weather the same for both of them?

 

[TorisMom003]

No, she never says that. But she does have Trayvon asking the first question. So that suggests to me that at the very least Trayvon stopped and faced Zimmerman.

While reading through the documents that have been released the other day I ran across something that backs up that Zimmerman continued after Trayvon. I wanted to make sure of what I had read, get a correct copy of what I read and also make note of the page number of it for others to look at. While most, if not all, of what Zimmerman claimed to SPD that night has been redacted there is a section that still stands. In the autopsy report there is the case summary that has a statement by Inv. Serino. Obviously Inv. Serino received the information from Zimmerman and then passed that information on to the proper person dealing with the autopsy of Trayvon. What I am referring to follows:

Pg 138 of 183
Medical Examiner Case Report
Case Summary:
ECC contacted Fl Malphurs of an apparent death in Sanford in the courtyard behind 2861 Retreat View Circle. Person of contact (POC) was SPD Inv. Serino. POC advised of an unknown B/M who had been shot by a resident of the complex. POC stated the following:

At approximately 1910 hours on 02/26/2012, 911 dispatchers received a call from a resident of the complex. That resident advised of a B/M who was at the complex between the townhomes. The caller stated that the male should not have been in the area and he observed the male while walking his neighborhood watch. Shortly after the call the resident confronted the male and the two began to physically fight. Witnesses observed the two fighting in the yard and then the resident fired a handgun at the male striking him in the chest. The male fell to the ground. SPD and SFD arrived on scene. The male was pronounced dead at 1930 hours. The identity of the male was unknown.

Link for the above:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor


The bolded above is the part that may cause Zimmerman problems and more than likely is part of the reason why A Corey filed charges against Zimmerman.

MOO

 

[saguaro]

Oops, posted in wrong place.

 

[CathyinTexas]

And I believe that the Martin's family lawyer didn't mention it either. Doesn't appear like anything about "get off" came out until the interviewer kept on probing and probing.

We learned about the "body talk" in Tammi Smith's trial. That could be what happened here. She recalled something she hadn't before because of the discussion about the incident. It is used all the time to help witnesses recall events.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Zimmerman doesn't have a deep voice. He has a kind of high pitched voice that we all heard on him calling 911.

I suspect that Zimmerman intentionally spoke in a menacing tone, which would mean he lowered his tone and raised his voice. I think he intended to be intimidating, jmo. Too a teenager, at least to her, she said he sounded old. Maybe she meant older, what difference does it make. Do you think it was someone other than GZ or do you think she is lying. I am sure that all the GZ supporters are quite upset the state has a star witness to the events shortly before GZ murdered Trayvon. jmo

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

But I do have an idea, in fact, I know, from witness statements, who hit the ground and started yelling for help, George. IMO, it's grasping at straws and a practice in futility to continue to carry on the charade. But that's JMO.

George made several very bad decisions that got a young man killed. He got out of his truck armed and hunted a young man down and killed him and now a young girl is being raked the coals in how she is or not reacting to her boyfriend death.,

I think the young man had a choice of fight or flight when George confronted him with a gun. His only thought would of been the chance of being shot right then and there or being shot in the back if he ran. His only thought may of been to get the gun and save himself. The only way he could gain control of that gun was to fight for it.

George was the aggressor and had someone he was trying to bully and intimidate fight back. I don't think George had plans on killing Trayvon, but by his bad decisions and action he killed a young boy.

I'm not saying he should fry. I'm just saying the punishment should fit the crime. He should have some alone time to rethink what he should or shouldn't of done in a prison cell. I'm not talking about a life sentence but a just punishment for his action that led to someones death.,

In 1992 my fifteen year old daughter was to go with her best friend and mother to the horse races on a nice Sunday during one of her mom's visitation weekend. They never showed up. My daughter called several times and never reached them. She called the next day trying to reach her again.

On Tuesday morning I was watching the early morning news and saw that two women had been found shot in the back of the head and dumped on dirt farm road two counties away. They showed a man handcuffed and being led to a police car. The reporter asked if he had killed his girlfriend and her fourteen year old daughter. I didn't think any more about it.,

A few hours later my husband called and said that T's step-mom had called and that T and her mother had been killed. They had been shot and dumped on a dirt road. I was stunned. All I could think of was my daughter and what if she had been with them. I called back and asked my husband to go and take her phone of the hook so no one would call and tell her. It was one of the hardest things I had to do in my life to go in and wake her up to tell her.

She watched the news clip of her best friend being carried in a body bag to the ME van. I was expecting screaming and hysterics ,but she never did. I was more upset than what I could see she was. She video taped the news clip later that evening and didn't really say much about anything.

The only thing she said that bothered her what that her friend was in a pink coffin and she knew that she would of hated it. It also bothered her the minister kept pronouncing her name wrong. Many teens react much differently then we or expect them to do.

I cringe at "like" and "you know" every time they say it. It's just the way some speak. Don't be to hard on her. She's a young girl. She will have a lifetime of guilt.

 

[suzihawk]

It has been stated here that since it was dark and raining that GZ wouldn't have been able to see TM well enough to characterize him as 'on drugs or something..."

But if TM said GZ, sitting in his vehicle, was acting "crazy and creepy", well... wasn't the weather the same for both of them?

I've been in and out (mostly out) for the day so pardon the late reply.

Yes, the weather, distance between the two and all other conditions were the same for both Trayvon and Zimmerman. However, if Zimmerman was following Trayvon, first slowly in his vehicle and then on foot, I would certainly consider that 'crazy and creepy' behavior. IMO

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

No, she never says that. But she does have Trayvon asking the first question. So that suggests to me that at the very least Trayvon stopped and faced Zimmerman.

Put yourself in Trayvon's situation. What would you do if some creepy man was following you? Would you keep on walking, hoping he'd go away on his own? or would you stop and ask why he was following you?

 

[CathyinTexas]

I wouldn't doubt that she didn't tell them, just as I wouldn't doubt that they had no clue that she was "distraught" over it.

What does being African American have to do with doing the right thing? It's called integrity and the last time I looked up the word it didn't have segregated definitions.

If Ms. Genovese is who I think it is (Genovese was a HUGE name back when the mob ran everything) I don't doubt that people wouldn't talk about it. The mafia was a pretty scary thing at one point in time.

I am surprised at the number of people who put blame of some kind on a friend of Trayvon for she did or didn't do. It is the GZ himself who stalked and killed Trayvon that should be the focus of ire, imo.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Maybe she assumed he was punched. Maybe he was grabbed. She obviously knew something was happening.

As for probing, if you check witness reports, some of them too, were probed. People may report but LE may need more details. Sounds reasonable to me.

Not only probed but told what to think and say, unbelievable.

 

[Nova]

My speculation is that she felt guilty only AFTER she was told the same story Crump sold to the media about how Trayvon had been hunted down like an animal by a "white" racist vigilante. Notice how she said that Trayvon had concluded that George was "white" when he saw George in his car...really? He concluded that a "latino-looking" guy was white even though the guy was in his car, in the dark, at a distance. Not buyin' that at all even assuming that you could conclude, visually, that George is white under ANY circumstances. Even the officers on the scene described him as latino....

With respect, you're imposing your own racial constructions on the witness. Some people see race in terms of black and white (particularly in areas where Asian Americans are less common). Even the government sees "Latino" as an ethnicity that can include any race.

There's nothing particularly incredible about the idea that TM saw GZ as a "white man."

(I know you know this, Karmody, but to be clear to other readers: different cultures and different individuals have different ways of defining race. That's what I'm talking about above. There's nothing in my remarks that accuses Karmody of being "racist" and that is certainly not my intent. I'm just saying the witness or TM may not have defined race as Karmody does.)

 

[sleonardelli]

Put yourself in Trayvon's situation. What would you do if some creepy man was following you? Would you keep on walking, hoping he'd go away on his own? or would you stop and ask why he was following you?

Per the GF, Trayvon said "He's getting close" before Trayvon asked GZ "Why are you following me" and GZ asked "What are you doing here". http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...nd-on-what-she-heard-on-the-phone#pl-68832490 (1:42)

IMO, GZ continued following TM or at least looking for him. When he got close, Trayvon asked why he was following. At that point, running home may not have been an option in his mind since BG's 13-year-old was home alone. He may have tried "manning up" instead of potentially putting the boy in harm's way. That's pure speculation and after talking to my near 15-year-old, is likely the same thing he would've done. God help me, I'd prefer my kid to run knowing what I know about this case.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Thank you for getting on your soapbox. You should do it as often as you feel the need. Personally, I hesitate to post on the TM/GZ threads because some of the posters get so very hostile if it is insinuated that TM was anything less than an completely innocent, angelic, scholar who was never in trouble who was stalked and killed in a vicious hate crime by a racist.

I just want the facts and the truth about BOTH of them. Both have a past that is less than perfect. Neither is a martyr or saint. I believe both played a part in events that night and I will wait for the trial for the truth to come out.

People who are overly zealous about any cause whether it is TM, religion, miracle cures, lifestyles, etc turn me off. People who are overly zealous and jumping to huge conclusions about this case are not doing TM a favor by being that way. They are simply reducing their integrity by blowing things out of proportion before the facts are known. They are also turning people to support GZ because they can be so extreme, aggressive and abrasive in their crusade to destroy GZ and turn TM into a saint.

An example is the rumor that the "TB" in GZ MySpace name stood for Trayvon Benjamin. How ridiculous is that? The TB name happened years before he ever laid eyes on TM. But there are people who insist that it stands for Travon Benjamin. If you believe that then I wonder about the validity of anything else you have to say or believe.

I keep an open mind about things and am waiting for the truth. But I have to say that I have avoided posting my feelings and theories on this case because I don't want to get caught up in the ugliness or be attacked for posing a legitimate question or concern.

Frankly, the ugliness that I have seen over this subject has sickened me. We are ALL here for justice for victims and I hate seeing people torn apart into two groups over this case. I will be glad when justice is done and I am glad to see that some of the evidence is coming out to support what George has said.

I don't think George was stalking him with the intent to kill TM. If he was, then he could have just followed him, shot him and slipped off into the darkness and it would just be another unsolved murder.

Trayvon Martin was a seventeen year old boy. He had made a few bad choices. He had a lifetime to change directions.

George Zimmerman is a twenty eight year old man. He has a past of being a bully and a history of bad decisions. It's the bad decisions he made that night that will follow him till the day he dies. He lost control of a situation he created. Sad isn't it?

 

[krimekat]

Trayvon Martin was a seventeen year old boy. He had made a few bad choices. He had a lifetime to change directions.

George Zimmerman is a twenty eight year old man. He has a past of being a bully and a history of bad decisions. It's the bad decisions he made that night that will follow him till the day he dies. He lost control of a situation he created. Sad isn't it?

BBM respectfully, only if he was not fighting for his life . . . IMHO of course

It's apparent now that some type of "fight" occurred.

 

[Karmady]

With respect, you're imposing your own racial constructions on the witness. Some people see race in terms of black and white (particularly in areas where Asian Americans are less common). Even the government sees "Latino" as an ethnicity that can include any race.

There's nothing particularly incredible about the idea that TM saw GZ as a "white man."

(I know you know this, Karmody, but to be clear to other readers: different cultures and different individuals have different ways of defining race. That's what I'm talking about above. There's nothing in my remarks that accuses Karmody of being "racist" and that is certainly not my intent. I'm just saying the witness or TM may not have defined race as Karmody does.)

You may be right about that. But maybe not. Idk. This Pew study suggests that blacks identify hispanics as hispanics and view them favorably, in general. I thought it was interesting, so I linked it.

Nonetheless, my point was that the girl, imo, was responding to Crump's characterizations of race, not her own and not Trayvon's. There's no doubt in my mind that Crump's characterization of George as "white" was entirely deliberate and not based on his own racial construct -- whatever that might be in his non-professional life.

and thanks, again, for the respectful post.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2008/01/31/do-blacks-and-hispanics-get-along/

 

[Karmady]

I am surprised at the number of people who put blame of some kind on a friend of Trayvon for she did or didn't do. It is the GZ himself who stalked and killed Trayvon that should be the focus of ire, imo.

Speaking only for myself, I don't *blame* her for anything. My perspective has strictly to do with her credibility as a witness and my perception of Crump's actions which are, imo, extremely despicable and not at all consistent with his ethical obligations. jmo

 

[wowitsdark]

Put yourself in Trayvon's situation. What would you do if some creepy man was following you? Would you keep on walking, hoping he'd go away on his own? or would you stop and ask why he was following you?

IMO, what anyone would do is really just anecdotal. Personally, I would go home as fast as possible, walking with something sharp protruding from between my fingers (like my car keys) so I could poke their eyes out if they approached me and tried anything. I'd shut the door to my house as quickly as possible, and lock it. I would turn out the lights inside, and peer out from between the curtains to see if they stuck around or left my neighborhood.

No way would I walk up to them and initiate a conversation.

 

[stmarysmead]

George made several very bad decisions that got a young man killed. He got out of his truck armed and hunted a young man down and killed him and now a young girl is being raked the coals in how she is or not reacting to her boyfriend death.,

I think the young man had a choice of fight or flight when George confronted him with a gun. His only thought would of been the chance of being shot right then and there or being shot in the back if he ran. His only thought may of been to get the gun and save himself. The only way he could gain control of that gun was to fight for it.

George was the aggressor and had someone he was trying to bully and intimidate fight back. I don't think George had plans on killing Trayvon, but by his bad decisions and action he killed a young boy.

I'm not saying he should fry. I'm just saying the punishment should fit the crime. He should have some alone time to rethink what he should or shouldn't of done in a prison cell. I'm not talking about a life sentence but a just punishment for his action that led to someones death.,

In 1992 my fifteen year old daughter was to go with her best friend and mother to the horse races on a nice Sunday during one of her mom's visitation weekend. They never showed up. My daughter called several times and never reached them. She called the next day trying to reach her again.

On Tuesday morning I was watching the early morning news and saw that two women had been found shot in the back of the head and dumped on dirt farm road two counties away. They showed a man handcuffed and being led to a police car. The reporter asked if he had killed his girlfriend and her fourteen year old daughter. I didn't think any more about it.,

A few hours later my husband called and said that T's step-mom had called and that T and her mother had been killed. They had been shot and dumped on a dirt road. I was stunned. All I could think of was my daughter and what if she had been with them. I called back and asked my husband to go and take her phone of the hook so no one would call and tell her. It was one of the hardest things I had to do in my life to go in and wake her up to tell her.

She watched the news clip of her best friend being carried in a body bag to the ME van. I was expecting screaming and hysterics ,but she never did. I was more upset than what I could see she was. She video taped the news clip later that evening and didn't really say much about anything.

The only thing she said that bothered her what that her friend was in a pink coffin and she knew that she would of hated it. It also bothered her the minister kept pronouncing her name wrong. Many teens react much differently then we or expect them to do.

I cringe at "like" and "you know" every time they say it. It's just the way some speak. Don't be to hard on her. She's a young girl. She will have a lifetime of guilt.

There is no evidence that GZ 'hunted TM down." He watched him. There is no evidence anywhere that his gun was drawn or he "confronted" TM with a gun. We do not even know if TM knew GZ had a gun. This is all opinion based on no evidence to date.

There is no evidence that suggests that TM was looking at a gun pointed at him and decding whether to flee and get shot in the back. How did GZ get a broken nose and witnesses see him having his head smashed into concrete if TM was being detained at gunpoint? That makes no sense. From what evidence do you postulate that TM tried to get the gun to save himself? Please, please link to evidence in the Doc dump that shows evidence that TM was held at gunpoint. This kind of speculation is so far off the mark and so unfair.

Do you want people making up stories with no evidence to attach to TM or his family? Then please lets stick to facts in evidence.