The Sidebar - Harris Trial #2

[monkeypants]

Totally, absolutely not the case that only "wackidoodles" get charged, though it is the case that pilllar of the community types are less likely to be charged, but that depends on what state they're in too.

Everyone, but everyone, gets investigated.

I phrased that poorly...I just meant these things seem to happen to people with convoluted secretive lives....a lot.

 

[katydid23]

Well there you go. Unlikely he'd plan to murder his son and attract the attention of law enforcement while he's got all that incriminating evidence on his phone.

No wait...that was my original point. And you are doing it again---trying to think logically and rationally and applying that to the way Ross thinks.

My original point was that Ross did not take rational precautions against being caught sending pictures of his stuff to a minor. He used a regular account that could be easily traced by LE. Not to mention how stupid he was not to think she was an undercover cop. Hasn't he ever seen 'to catch a predator?' He took zero precautions against being caught doing that crapola. So why would we assume he would suddenly be all cautious and rational with faking an accidental death?

 

[monkeypants]

I think that's because in many cases the person who left the kid in the car did so to go sit in a bar and drink, or visit their dealer to make a purchase. The ones who leave the kid and go to work or school or wherever may be charged but are usually not found guilty of an intentional act. And I have to wonder how many of those that appear so innocent are actually intentional acts. If a person really looks at these cases and how they come out in the end, it could actually be quite a fool-proof way to do away with an unwanted burden. It could look like an accident even when it isn't because the death is not hands-on.

Winner winner chicken dinner

 

[Hope4More]

I remember reading in the minutes from that trial day that the prosecution stated in trial that Ross had posted a comment under the you tube video (where you can make comments): "It would be terrible if my son was in that car." The date he posted this was on Friday, June 13th, 2014.

I wonder if that comment has been deleted per this investigation, or if that comment is still up there!!!

Ugh. Comments don't load for me. But...making note of the mindlessness of a man who plans to murder his son posting on YouTube , in the comments section of a video with over 2 million views (at that time), that he can't imagine his son dying in the way he plans on killing him. Within days.

Onto my heaping pile this goes.

 

[monkeypants]

For those who think he's guilty: could you please just briefly post when it is you believe Ross began thinking about killing Cooper and/or actually planning to kill him, and/or decided to kill him for sure?

1. Sometime in May, probably late May
2. When he stopped taking pics of Cooper arriving at daycare
3. When he watched the YouTube video on June 13
4. On June 17.
5. Morning of June 18, when he received Meadows text, when he replied
6. Morning of 18, before he left home
7. Morning of 18, after responding to Whisper, while at CFA.
8. Morning of 18, heading to Uturn, or by the time he reached the intersection.

Some other time.

This hard to answer because for me I'd say 1-3 was the startit was like a snowball at the top of the hill at 1 but gained speed all the way down your list.for the record I don't think Janie is herself a factor...just the idea of her...such as she wasn't like the rest. I do think he could see himself with her in another life...I think he wanted someone other than LH but Janie was only a symbol of that.
His life was very quickly unraveling...it was a perfect storm with limited planning, if any

The time period is so few weeks here too btw...it's not like it had been months and years...it was starting to crash and burn.

 

[Hope4More]

No wait...that was my original point. And you are doing it again---trying to think logically and rationally and applying that to the way Ross thinks.

My original point was that Ross did not take rational precautions against being caught sending pictures of his stuff to a minor. He used a regular account that could be easily traced by LE. Not to mention how stupid he was not to think she was an undercover cop. Hasn't he ever seen 'to catch a predator?' He took zero precautions against being caught doing that crapola. So why would we assume he would suddenly be all cautious and rational with faking an accidental death?

Because the secret sex stuff was thrilling to him, his words, and the more forbidden, the greater his thrill.

Faking his son's death, even if that's what he did , wasn't about the thrill, right? It was about escaping?

 

[katydid23]

Ugh. Comments don't load for me. But...making note of the mindlessness of a man who plans to murder his son posting on YouTube , in the comments section of a video with over 2 million views (at that time), that he can't imagine his son dying in the way he plans on killing him. Within days.

Onto my heaping pile this goes.

Why do you assume he was planning it back then? Maybe that video gave him the idea?

 

[katydid23]

Because the secret sex stuff was thrilling to him, his words, and the more forbidden, the greater his thrill.

Faking his son's death, even if that's what he did , wasn't about the thrill, right? It was about escaping?

It was all interconnected, imo. "Accidentally' forgetting his son was his extreme method of making a new life for himself... A way towards freedom from a job and marriage that he hated. From a life that he was bored with and felt trapped by.

If he was a sociopath, and I believe he might be, then being a grieving single father, traveling around giving speeches about child safety , and being an expert sharing his tragic experiences, would be an ideal life. :sigh:

 

[monkeypants]

If I go really all evil and deep and ross hating I would say the ultimate was to kill cooper with LH biggest fear. That his being emasculated and controlled, stuck and miserable in a sexless marriage pushed him over the edge. But it's not lost on me that cooper died by his hand from her biggest fear.

 

[Hope4More]

No wait...that was my original point. And you are doing it again---trying to think logically and rationally and applying that to the way Ross thinks.

My original point was that Ross did not take rational precautions against being caught sending pictures of his stuff to a minor. He used a regular account that could be easily traced by LE. Not to mention how stupid he was not to think she was an undercover cop. Hasn't he ever seen 'to catch a predator?' He took zero precautions against being caught doing that crapola. So why would we assume he would suddenly be all cautious and rational with faking an accidental death?

Why do you assume he was planning it back then? Maybe that video gave him the idea?

I'm not assuming anything here, really. That he posted that comment on that day has been advanced as evidence of his guilt. Just making a note of that for my list-pile I am slooooowly working on.

 

[Winter67]

I've been with you for a lot of years. Don't post much but check in daily for all of your knowledge. You guys are wonderful, smart and so caring. My heart breaking today because even though I felt he did it on purpose from day 1, today really hit home re-watching it all. He let his baby suffer the worst possible death on purpose. I watched him throw that receipt away and not mention the stop at lunch, the hesitation. It was only the lunch receipt, but I think he was unsure if it was the light bulb receipt. Why would you ever try to hide anything if it was truly an accident. He killed Cooper because he loved himself more and I believe those 30 seconds were spent telling Cooper that and saying goodbye because I believe he did love Cooper but he was in the way of how Ross wanted to live. Heart breaking if Cooper was alive at lunch and thought Daddy's here, I'm ok and he shut the door and walked away.

 

[Hatfield]

I think I still have ptsd from the CA trial. The hatred runs deep.

Me too.

The one thing I learned from that trial is Prosecuters need to not spend days and days going over minute details of chemical analysis. They need to get their points across in a more summarized fashion so they dont go over a juries head. That jury was ridiculous but even in other trials i have watched they typically decide the cases in relatively short fashion. Days or at most a week or two in complex cases.

So prosecuters need to keep that mind that whatever they present needs to be rememberable and to not get so much technical stuff that they throw it all away.

The CA jury was just ridiculous though and not a good example because they flat out failed in even the basics of the case.

The prosecution lost me quite a few times when they spent endless days with some of their expert chemical analysis studies. I remember trying to figure out the main point they were trying to get across and couldnt do it. LOL

 

[LyndyLoo]

Does hyperthermia slow the rate of digestion? How come the ME couldn't get a ballpark figure about the time of death based on the rate of digestion of the Chik-fil-A breakfast?

Nope~~ Increases it..

BUT not to gain any excuses for what Ross did.. Cooper was only 22 months old .His metabolism is already much higher than any teen/ adult..not to mention his loss of fluid the urination and sweating, due to "Greenhouse affect"..would have risen temps+++ ..and his little body ( 21 pounds) would have resulted in enormous fluid loss.. Between breathing..urinating and sweating..Cooper had absolutely NO chance to survive :facepalm:

I come from a practical side of HC..I dealt with children//dehydration cases..also kids with diabetes..and kids with flu or any other causes for fluid loss... Most kids with fevers and much fluid loss un-replaced..often never got to us in ER..WHY..Because Kids would never survive prolonged fluid deprivation ..

Cooper was only 21 lbs..he couldn't have survived more than a few hours..never mind 6-8 hours!! in that "HOT CAR", that had no windows cracked.. Temp. inside was no doubt much+ higher than outside!!

I'm actually tired of trying to explain this ..as it seems many want to twist into pretzels to excuse this Idiot.. IF lay people do NOT want to accept actual real life proof of things..and make excuses..I give up!!

I've seen too many real life exhibits in my life as front line HC provider..to KNOW some things!! I post links..but obviously disregarded..due to need to S'plain away Sex addicted idiot!! ..There was no way he didn't do this..and there were so many red flags..It's not a wonder LE.. arrested him immediately..and Investigated!!

If people have a personal vendetta against LE/Detectives..that's really personal..and in this case..there's no way..Ross didn't do this on purpose..and due to his weirdness..and verbiage..and even LeANNE was weird too..I don't blame LE for looking deeper. Meanwhile a beautiful 21 month old boy perished at the hands of a father!! A father who played the "DADDY" but actually believed..Cooper was a necessary consequence ti moving on.. Ross could not have actually had a connection to Cooper..or could never even contemplate this..let alone do it!! Any parent who loves their family (kids) would give up their own life for them. Ross has no conception of what love is..It's all a GAME TO HIM!!

 

[NCTeacher]

Ugh. Comments don't load for me. But...making note of the mindlessness of a man who plans to murder his son posting on YouTube , in the comments section of a video with over 2 million views (at that time), that he can't imagine his son dying in the way he plans on killing him. Within days.

Onto my heaping pile this goes.

And for me, this was the smoking gun. I literally gasped and drew my hand to my mouth. I'm a language arts teacher, I have a penchant for foreshadowing.

It's amazing how perceptions vary. My thoughts are with the jurors as they continue to slug it out next week.

 

[monkeypants]

Ugh. Comments don't load for me. But...making note of the mindlessness of a man who plans to murder his son posting on YouTube , in the comments section of a video with over 2 million views (at that time), that he can't imagine his son dying in the way he plans on killing him. Within days.

Onto my heaping pile this goes.

Ok...2 million views..that's gotta be a bazillion comments written in there. What I want to know is out of that bazillion comments:
1. How many people made comments referencing the VET video for dogs to their Kids?
2. OK out of those comments, how many of those referenced kids actually died in a hot car death?
3. OK, out of ALL those who correlated their kid to the dog, whose kids did die from a hot car death after viewing this video...how many died within 5 days of viewing it?

Betcha a ton, right...out of 2 million views?

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[Hope4More]

It was all interconnected, imo. "Accidentally' forgetting his son was his extreme method of making a new life for himself... A way towards freedom from a job and marriage that he hated. From a life that he was bored with and felt trapped by.

If he was a sociopath, and I believe he might be, then being a grieving single father, traveling around giving speeches about child safety , and being an expert sharing his tragic experiences, would be an ideal life. :sigh:

Bouncing off just one part of that, whether or not he'd a sociopath, etc.

I don't think he is that. I don't believe he killed Cooper on purpose. But there is this, when I insist on intellectual honesty, which I do.

I've rewatched the part of his LE interview, multiple times now, when he is recounting his day to Stoddsrd and he says I went to lunch and...LONG pause.

It IS a long pause. There aren't any other pauses like it in the interview. What was he thinking?

I believe he would have been highly unlikely to pause had he intended to kill Cooper and/or hadn't intended to, but realized before noon that he'd forgotten Cooper, and arranged a lightbulb trip to check.

That moment of checking would have been the very moment he would have known he'd have to account for, convincingly. I can't be convinced RH didn't think it was at least possible, if not absolutely probable, that LE would speak to his lunch time friends.

So why did he hesitate, then omit the lightbulb trip? IMO, it's because his telling of the chronology was the first time he realized Cooper was in the car then, and for all he knew (right?) , was still alive, or at least, might have been, because he had no way of knowing for sure, because he in fact didn't look, didn't check, and worse, wasn't prompted to remember Cooper, even standing there near the car.

That's what I think may have run through his mind in the brief pause, that and just as quickly, better not tell LE about that because it looks bad and they'll use it against me, and I need to get out of here, not give them any reason at all to hold onto that phone which, if they search it , will send me to prison.

So, here's the thing about that pause and how he responded. I find it almost impossible to believe he could have been so deeply in shock that he'd show no emotional response to suddenly realizing he was right there at the car, perhaps could have saved him, but in any case could have prevented his dead son from being alone in the car, abandoned, for hours longer.

What kind of person, realizing that, pauses, then goes on, matter of factly describing the rest of his day, in an effort to save his own arse?

Not a sociopath, necessarily, and not a murderer, necessarily, but for a fact, necessarily, if that's what the pause was about, a man who couldn't possibly have loved his son in any definition of the word I can understand.

 

[monkeypants]

Bouncing off just one part of that, whether or not he'd a sociopath, etc.

I don't think he is that. I don't believe he killed Cooper on purpose. But there is this, when I insist on intellectual honesty, which I do.

I've rewatched the part of his LE interview, multiple times now, when he is recounting his day to Stoddsrd and he says I went to lunch and...LONG pause.

It IS a long pause. There aren't any other pauses like it in the interview. What was he thinking?

I believe he would have been highly unlikely to pause had he intended to kill Cooper and/or hadn't intended to, but realized before noon that he'd forgotten Cooper, and arranged a lightbulb trip to check.

That moment of checking would have been the very moment he would have known he'd have to account for, convincingly. I can't be convinced RH didn't think it was at least possible, if not absolutely probable, that LE would speak to his lunch time friends.

So why did he hesitate, then omit the lightbulb trip? IMO, it's because his telling of the chronology was the first time he realized Cooper was in the car then, and for all he knew (right?) , was still alive, or at least, might have been, because he had no way of knowing for sure, because he in fact didn't look, didn't check, and worse, wasn't prompted to remember Cooper, even standing there near the car.

That's what I think may have run through his mind in the brief pause, that and just as quickly, better not tell LE about that because it looks bad and they'll use it against me, and I need to get out of here, not give them any reason at all to hold onto that phone which, if they search it , will send me to prison.

So, here's the thing about that pause and how he responded. I find it almost impossible to believe he could have been so deeply in shock that he'd show no emotional response to suddenly realizing he was right there at the car, perhaps could have saved him, but in any case could have prevented his dead son from being alone in the car, abandoned, for hours longer.

What kind of person, realizing that, pauses, then goes on, matter of factly describing the rest of his day, in an effort to save his own arse?

Not a sociopath, necessarily, and not a murderer, necessarily, but for a fact, necessarily, if that's what the pause was about, a man who couldn't possibly have loved his son in any definition of the word I can understand.

We have cookies.

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[SuperTmo]

Because he thought he would get sympathy.

I'm SUPER far behind again, but this post made me think about who he would want sympathy from. IIRC (and I may have the days wrong on this but still) Jayne Meadows didn't respond to messages from him the day of and the day before Cooper died, correct? It made him sad. He clearly thought he'd be taking his phone and leaving jail. Maybe he was feeling so desperate for her to talk to him that he hoped if she saw on the news that his kid died, or he messaged her and said his son died, that she'd respond. I don't think he killed Cooper simply to get a response from her, but I wouldn't be surprised if as he was weighing the decision he considered that she'd feel very sorry for him.

 

[NCTeacher]

Nope~~ Increases it..

BUT not to gain any excuses for what Ross did.. Cooper was only 22 months old .His metabolism is already much higher than any teen/ adult..not to mention his loss of fluid the urination and sweating, due to "Greenhouse affect"..would have risen temps+++ ..and his little body ( 21 pounds) would have resulted in enormous fluid loss.. Between breathing..urinating and sweating..Cooper had absolutely NO chance to survive :facepalm:

I come from a practical side of HC..I dealt with children//dehydration cases..also kids with diabetes..and kids with flu or any other causes for fluid loss... Most kids with fevers and much fluid loss un-replaced..often never got to us in ER..WHY..Because Kids would never survive prolonged fluid deprivation ..

Cooper was only 21 lbs..he couldn't have survived more than a few hours..never mind 6-8 hours!! in that "HOT CAR", that had no windows cracked.. Temp. inside was no doubt much+ higher than outside!!

I'm actually tired of trying to explain this ..as it seems many want to twist into pretzels to excuse this Idiot.. IF lay people do NOT want to accept actual real life proof of things..and make excuses..I give up!!

I've seen too many real life exhibits in my life as front line HC provider..to KNOW some things!! I post links..but obviously disregarded..due to need to S'plain away Sex addicted idiot!! ..There was no way he didn't do this..and there were so many red flags..It's not a wonder LE.. arrested him immediately..and Investigated!!

If people have a personal vendetta against LE/Detectives..that's really personal..and in this case..there's no way..Ross didn't do this on purpose..and due to his weirdness..and verbiage..and even LeANNE was weird too..I don't blame LE for looking deeper. Meanwhile a beautiful 21 month old boy perished at the hands of a father!! A father who played the "DADDY" but actually believed..Cooper was a necessary consequence ti moving on.. Ross could not have actually had a connection to Cooper..or could never even contemplate this..let alone do it!! Any parent who loves their family (kids) would give up their own life for them. Ross has no conception of what love is..It's all a GAME TO HIM!!

All of that is incredibly fascinating---and it certainly makes sense in hindsight that hyperthermia would increase digestion. I'm trying to figure in my own mind how likely it was that Cooper was alive at 12:40 when he opened that door. His small size, as you described, must've allowed for the actual dying stages to be less prolonged than I thought (thank goodness), but when he died would be contingent upon when the car became hot enough to commence sweating. I know this evidence was presented, but can't exactly recall--I want to say the temps were nearing 90 in the 11 o'clock hour--that certainly would've caused perspiration.
I was thinking he was alive at 12:40, and probably died between1 and 2, but I hadn't factored in the fluid loss he would've experienced prior to hyperthermic conditions setting in.

:

 

[FinallyRegistered]

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