The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #5

[former central time]

It isn't a far stretch to me because I have actually done the same thing many times What you do is go to the bathroom, take off your suit, put your clothes on that you wore there and get into the car and go home. No need for different clothes if you're just riding to a water slide and back home in a car. Sounds like she had her make up and meds in her purse...so she was set. I can't remember how long it takes to get to home to Springfield from Branson, but isn't it less than an hour? As for the wet swimsuit...that would be put in a plastic grocery bag (even if an overnight bag was brought).

It certainly is possible, without question. But, the 'reasonable person standard' could be argued. Myself, a male and in h/s close to this time, I ALWAYS wanted a change of clothes from a sleep over and particularly involving a swimsuit. I also feel the same about having my 'own ride' whenever I went anywhere, so I was free to arrive and leave at my will and time. But, I know for kids in h/s this might not be the norm. But, in Stacy's case, being an aspiring model, and very sensitive to image, might not bow to casualness as such, so I can see a case for a change of clothes being expected.

However, there appears no public evidence of a bag/change of clothes Stacy had, so it's all speculation.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Well, if we try to think outside the box and if we can imagine that she did have an overnight bag but it wasn't found at the crime scene, what might it tell us? Is it not at all unreasonable to think that the police might hold back such information because they were thinking that if they found her overnight bag in the possession of the abductor(s) that it would be almost certain proof of their guilt?

That has really been the thrust of my argument all along.

As an aside, I am a male. I don't wear wet swim trunks away from a swimming pool. I put on clean, dry clothes because I don't like to have the moisture next to my body. In fact, when I went to the Y where I used to live I arrived in street clothes, changed into gym shorts, worked out and the mere workout caused me to be so thoroughly soaked in perspiration such that if I were to put my street clothes over my wet underwear I was very uncomfortable. I changed my underwear and then I always put on clean dry street clothes -- always. I just can't imagine that anyone would go to a water park clad only in the previous days clothing with a swim suit in a Wal-Mart plastic bag. And I certainly don't think Stacy did either.

 

[Luzer]

It certainly is possible, without question. But, the 'reasonable person standard' could be argued. Myself, a male and in h/s close to this time, I ALWAYS wanted a change of clothes from a sleep over and particularly involving a swimsuit. I also feel the same about having my 'own ride' whenever I went anywhere, so I was free to arrive and leave at my will and time. But, I know for kids in h/s this might not be the norm. But, in Stacy's case, being an aspiring model, and very sensitive to image, might not bow to casualness as such, so I can see a case for a change of clothes being expected.

However, there appears no public evidence of a bag/change of clothes Stacy had, so it's all speculation.

Well, if we try to think outside the box and if we can imagine that she did have an overnight bag but it wasn't found at the crime scene, what might it tell us? Is it not at all unreasonable to think that the police might hold back such information because they were thinking that if they found her overnight bag in the possession of the abductor(s) that it would be almost certain proof of their guilt?

That has really been the thrust of my argument all along.

I just can't imagine that anyone would go to a water park clad only in the previous days clothing with a swim suit in a Wal-Mart plastic bag. And I certainly don't think Stacy did either.

On the surface, it does seem there should have been a packed overnight bag for Stacy's overnighter. But with Mrs. McCall making the statement Stacy would have been in her underwear and then her clothes, swim suit, et al being left at the Delmar home lessens the possibility (to me) that Stacy had packed a bag for this weekend.

What gets me is the thought of Stacy not having a nightie of some kind to sleep in. I guess if she doesn't pack a change of clothes for the next morning, she wouldn't pack pajamas, either.

What would LE gain if they knew Stacy had a missing overnight bag but kept it secret? It seems to me that letting the public know there was a missing bag would increase tips from the public to report finding abandoned bags. The bag would possibly hold fibers, hair, etc that could help identify a perp. I have to believe the police would want a bag found with the purported lack of evidence at Delmar.

 

[CaliMama]

Well, if we try to think outside the box and if we can imagine that she did have an overnight bag but it wasn't found at the crime scene, what might it tell us? Is it not at all unreasonable to think that the police might hold back such information because they were thinking that if they found her overnight bag in the possession of the abductor(s) that it would be almost certain proof of their guilt?

That has really been the thrust of my argument all along.

As an aside, I am a male. I don't wear wet swim trunks away from a swimming pool. I put on clean, dry clothes because I don't like to have the moisture next to my body. In fact, when I went to the Y where I used to live I arrived in street clothes, changed into gym shorts, worked out and the mere workout caused me to be so thoroughly soaked in perspiration such that if I were to put my street clothes over my wet underwear I was very uncomfortable. I changed my underwear and then I always put on clean dry street clothes -- always. I just can't imagine that anyone would go to a water park clad only in the previous days clothing with a swim suit in a Wal-Mart plastic bag. And I certainly don't think Stacy did either.

My point was: why wasn't the swimsuit in the overnight bag if there was one?

I never suggested that Stacy intended to wear her wet swimsuit home from the water slide. I suggested that she intended to change back into her dry clothing. There is nothing odd about this whatsoever.

I go to the beach and the pool all the time, but I don't bring fresh new clothes to put on afterward just to go home in. Why would I?

Stacy wore a t-shirt and shorts to the party the night before. Perfect attire for a day at the water slide. In fact, her shorts were found neatly folded and, in my opinion, they were neatly folded (with her jewelry in the pockets) so that they would be ready for her to put on in the morning.

If there was an overnight bag, why wouldn't she have put her shorts in there. Why wouldn't she have put her jewelry in there?

I have horrible migraines. I mean, they are so bad that they last for 2 - 3 days, but I don't walk around carrying my migraine meds with me everywhere. I only have them on my person when I am going on a trip or when I might be far away from my home. I suspect that she packed her necessities; make up and migraine meds in her purse.

When I was a teenager, I cared a lot about my looks, but I learned to be flexible and go with the flow in my later teen years. I'm sure she learned to be the same way, aspiring model or not. If she had her make up, meds, a swimsuit and dry clothes...she was set and ready to go. Her shorts were barely worn. I mean, she probably JUST put them on before she went out and she was just going with a group of close friends and probably not trying to impress anyone...furthermore, there's not much you can do about your image after you've become soaking wet

Take from me, if girls want to have fun, we don't care so much about our image that we can't be flexible and go with the flow.

I believe these are a reasonable explanations.

Can anyone give me a reasonable explanation for why the swimsuit, shorts & jewelry weren't in the overnight bag if there was an overnight bag?

 

[CaliMama]

On the surface, it does seem there should have been a packed overnight bag for Stacy's overnighter. But with Mrs. McCall making the statement Stacy would have been in her underwear and then her clothes, swim suit, et al being left at the Delmar home lessens the possibility (to me) that Stacy had packed a bag for this weekend.

What gets me is the thought of Stacy not having a nightie of some kind to sleep in. I guess if she doesn't pack a change of clothes for the next morning, she wouldn't pack pajamas, either.

What would LE gain if they knew Stacy had a missing overnight bag but kept it secret? It seems to me that letting the public know there was a missing bag would increase tips from the public to report finding abandoned bags. The bag would possibly hold fibers, hair, etc that could help identify a perp. I have to believe the police would want a bag found with the purported lack of evidence at Delmar.

Back in high school in the late 80's, all of my friends and I always just slept in t-shirts when we slept at each other's houses (if there weren't any brothers or fathers around of course...well unless the brother was cute...lol just kidding)

 

[CaliMama]

I'd also like to add that it has been speculated that the girls knew that they would not be going to Branson that night before they left home and that Stacy had planned to spend the night at Janelle's. It really seems like the plan was to "crash" at Janelle's or whoever's house. Usually when you crash at someone's house, you don't bring an overnight bag. You pack "light" and go with the flow the next day. Am I the only one who remembers high school and college? lol

 

[Missouri Mule]

On the surface, it does seem there should have been a packed overnight bag for Stacy's overnighter. But with Mrs. McCall making the statement Stacy would have been in her underwear and then her clothes, swim suit, et al being left at the Delmar home lessens the possibility (to me) that Stacy had packed a bag for this weekend.

What gets me is the thought of Stacy not having a nightie of some kind to sleep in. I guess if she doesn't pack a change of clothes for the next morning, she wouldn't pack pajamas, either.

What would LE gain if they knew Stacy had a missing overnight bag but kept it secret? It seems to me that letting the public know there was a missing bag would increase tips from the public to report finding abandoned bags. The bag would possibly hold fibers, hair, etc that could help identify a perp. I have to believe the police would want a bag found with the purported lack of evidence at Delmar.

I can see a very good reason not to mention the overnight bag. I thought I had addressed this before but let me reiterate it for emphasis. If, as has been suggested, we are looking at some kind of sexual deviant, it is altogether possible that that the overnight bag was the kind of souvenir that would be kept, just as the BTK killer and Ted Bundy would have to revisit their warped fantasies. If such a bag was found in the possession of this person it would be virtually a slam dunk case to conviction.

 

[Luzer]

I can see a very good reason not to mention the overnight bag. I thought I had addressed this before but let me reiterate it for emphasis. If, as has been suggested, we are looking at some kind of sexual deviant, it is altogether possible that that the overnight bag was the kind of souvenir that would be kept, just as the BTK killer and Ted Bundy would have to revisit their warped fantasies. If such a bag was found in the possession of this person it would be virtually a slam dunk case to conviction.

I understand your point of the bag being a trophy or souvenir, but it is seems an extreme example. Trophies and souvenirs kept by a perp are almost always something worn by the victim, or a body part such as a lock of hair. To me, the bag would be more of a valuables item. Here is a link that helps categorize items: http://books.google.com/books?id=Og...v=onepage&q=trophy items from victims&f=false

There is a very small possibility that Stacy had a bag and it went missing. I will keep my belief that if a bag had been missing, police would have made the public aware in hopes someone would see and report such bag. Someone as in a girlfriend noticing a boyfriend having an overnight bag that was obviously more of a feminine type bag.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I understand your point of the bag being a trophy or souvenir, but it is seems an extreme example. Trophies and souvenirs kept by a perp are almost always something worn by the victim, or a body part such as a lock of hair. To me, the bag would be more of a valuables item. Here is a link that helps categorize items: http://books.google.com/books?id=Oge7LFaN5xYC&pg=PA214&lpg=PA214&dq=trophy+items+from+victims&source=bl&ots=h0UbUuN5S0&sig=jhu7o8uomhn3UfyICeJKVRmT-jI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xmdjT4eHFIba0QHlhdiyCA&ved=0CHEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=trophy%20items%20from%20victims&f=false

There is a very small possibility that Stacy had a bag and it went missing. I will keep my belief that if a bag had been missing, police would have made the public aware in hopes someone would see and report such bag. Someone as in a girlfriend noticing a boyfriend having an overnight bag that was obviously more of a feminine type bag.

Let me suggest that if, as suggested, by two close followers of this case that a "deviant" (whatever that might mean) was potentially involved. That being the case he would have a logical reason to want to have in his possession a woman's piece of luggage.

On balance, you are probably correct. But since we know so little about the actual facts, even though this case has been beat to death many times, when I started rolling this around in my head, I kept coming back to this overnight bag (if it existed) and what it might portend. I think we can make the following deductions on what probably is factual.

1) She did not have such a bag and only had her bathing suit which could fit inside her purse along with her other necessary items. The corollary would be that this would suggest she didn't intend to stay the night in Branson and intended to return to Springfield later on in the day.

2) She did have such a bag and intended to stay overnight. If that were the case, she would almost certainly have needed a change of clothing and other essentials.

As can be seen, these two alternative explanations are mutually exclusive. Stated differently, either explanation could be possible, but not both. And we cannot assume that what was published was what was factual information and we can be virtually certain that the perp(s) would be reading these reports. At that point in time, and if the police did not want to reveal that the overnight bag was missing, and if the perp(s) were rounded up, the advantage of surprise would be extremely important that the police would be looking for this item. Finding such an item in his/their possession would have resulted in a slam dunk prosecutorial case.

 

[CaliMama]

Let me suggest that if, as suggested, by two close followers of this case that a "deviant" (whatever that might mean) was potentially involved. That being the case he would have a logical reason to want to have in his possession a woman's piece of luggage.

On balance, you are probably correct. But since we know so little about the actual facts, even though this case has been beat to death many times, when I started rolling this around in my head, I kept coming back to this overnight bag (if it existed) and what it might portend. I think we can make the following deductions on what probably is factual.

1) She did not have such a bag and only had her bathing suit which could fit inside her purse along with her other necessary items. The corollary would be that this would suggest she didn't intend to stay the night in Branson and intended to return to Springfield later on in the day.

2) She did have such a bag and intended to stay overnight. If that were the case, she would almost certainly have needed a change of clothing and other essentials.

As can be seen, these two alternative explanations are mutually exclusive. Stated differently, either explanation could be possible, but not both. And we cannot assume that what was published was what was factual information and we can be virtually certain that the perp(s) would be reading these reports. At that point in time, and if the police did not want to reveal that the overnight bag was missing, and if the perp(s) were rounded up, the advantage of surprise would be extremely important that the police would be looking for this item. Finding such an item in his/their possession would have resulted in a slam dunk prosecutorial case.

Thanks. I don't understand what the logical reason would be for a perp to want to have a woman's piece of luggage.

My overnight bag in high school was usually a tote bag or a duffle bag. How are we for certain that her overnight bag of choice on that night (if it did exist) was anything more than a duffle bag, backpack or large tote bag?

 

[Missouri Mule]

Thanks. I don't understand what the logical reason would be for a perp to want to have a woman's piece of luggage.

My overnight bag in high school was usually a tote bag or a duffle bag. How are we for certain that her overnight bag of choice on that night (if it did exist) was anything more than a duffle bag, backpack or large tote bag?

We don't; only that if something belonging to her were found in the perp(s) possession it would be tantamount to a indictment and probable conviction. A very strong circumstantial case could be made on that evidence alone. Certainly it would eliminate most other people who could not be argued would have had reason to have it.

 

[Hippy Chick]

I'd also like to add that it has been speculated that the girls knew that they would not be going to Branson that night before they left home and that Stacy had planned to spend the night at Janelle's. It really seems like the plan was to "crash" at Janelle's or whoever's house. Usually when you crash at someone's house, you don't bring an overnight bag. You pack "light" and go with the flow the next day. Am I the only one who remembers high school and college? lol

No, I'm alot older than u and I remember and having a daughter that graduated hs in 2002 I know girls habits. I agree with you she was planning on a trip to the water park not out on a date, so the clothes she had on would have worked for the next day. I also wonder like you about a beach towel. If I am going to the pool I always take my own towel and a big one to lay out on, I think those girls would too. Another thing that bothers me is Jannel's house being to full of relatives for the girls to stay there, they had to have known all theese people were coming for the graduation and staying there would't they have known beforehand that there would not be room for the girls to stay there. That has always made me think maybe they were going to stay elsewhere. Stacy may have told her parents she was staying at Jannel's so they wouldn't worry about her but intended to stay somewhere else. Girls will do that sometimes. I know I did and I am sure my daughter did too. Thats one reason I always let my daughter host the major parties at my house ( prom, graduation, homecoming, etc)so I could keep a eye on all of the girls. I can't imagine Jannel's mother not making sure the girls stayed there if that was the intended plans There is no way I would have let my daughters friends leave my house in the middle of the night, and a night that I am sure they had a few drinks more than likely. Something about that dosen't set well with me. IMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

You make a lot of sense, Hippy Chick. After midnight, kids are always better off where they are, although I suppose it's possible that Janelle's parents weren't like you and everyone figured that Suzi and stacy were going straight to Suz's house.

As far as Stacy's belonging go, I had never seen the reference to the bathing suit, so that clears the mystery up for me. She may have had the suit in her car and brought it in the house so that in the morning she could put it on under the shorts. she could sleep inpanties and a t-shirt, so long as she could borrow one or was willing to wear the one she slept in to the water park. No need for clean underwear that way. I still would have wanted shampoo and xa toothbrush, though, as well as a towel. I still think there are some small details we don't know be ause they were not made public, probably for good reason.

This aspect of the story raises issues for me about the quality of communication among the 3 girls--if Stacy did not have a bag, that suggests the overnight trip to a hotel/motel was never in her plans, or was seen not as a sleeping location but as a party spot. Wonder who all was part of that plan?

 

[Indianagirl]

I'm in agreement with others and think there is a huge possibility that Stacy brought her swimsuit into the house with her that night so she could put it on under her clothes in the morning. I also agree about the towel issue, so I'm thinking she very likely had a towel in her car and left it there b/c she didnt need it the next morning during her "getting ready" stage of the day. She then would just grab the towel out of her car on their way out. The towel could have even been in a beach bag, for instance, I always take a somewhat small beach bag with me that only has a towel, lotions and sometimes magazines.

P.S. I graduated hs in 01 and I wouldn't have brought an extra change of clean clothing either just to wear for the short drive home. I sometimes even just drive home in my coverup over my somewhat damp bathing suit that i've let air dry while laying out in the sun.

Also, Janelle showed up at the Delamr house that Sunday night in damp clothing after being at a waterpark that afternoon, so would it be unheard of for Stacy to have done the same?

Just my opinion...

 

[CaliMama]

No, I'm alot older than u and I remember and having a daughter that graduated hs in 2002 I know girls habits. I agree with you she was planning on a trip to the water park not out on a date, so the clothes she had on would have worked for the next day. I also wonder like you about a beach towel. If I am going to the pool I always take my own towel and a big one to lay out on, I think those girls would too. Another thing that bothers me is Jannel's house being to full of relatives for the girls to stay there, they had to have known all theese people were coming for the graduation and staying there would't they have known beforehand that there would not be room for the girls to stay there. That has always made me think maybe they were going to stay elsewhere. Stacy may have told her parents she was staying at Jannel's so they wouldn't worry about her but intended to stay somewhere else. Girls will do that sometimes. I know I did and I am sure my daughter did too. Thats one reason I always let my daughter host the major parties at my house ( prom, graduation, homecoming, etc)so I could keep a eye on all of the girls. I can't imagine Jannel's mother not making sure the girls stayed there if that was the intended plans There is no way I would have let my daughters friends leave my house in the middle of the night, and a night that I am sure they had a few drinks more than likely. Something about that dosen't set well with me. IMO

I recently read an article (I think it was the 10 years later article printed in the Springfield News Leader) that stated that pallets were already made up on the living room floor for Stacy & Suzie and Janelle was set up to sleep on the couch. This article stated that Stacy & Suzie decided that they would rather sleep at Suzie's house. Hmmm. Maybe they didn't feel comfortable sleeping in a house full of relatives of Janelle's and thought it would be less intrusive to just go to Suzie's house. I don't know. This is speculation, but if it were me, I wouldn't want to be around in the morning half asleep on the living room floor when all of these people I don't know are getting up to eat breakfast.

Let me find the link and I will edit to add it.

Ok I found the link. Here is a copied and pasted portion of the 10 years later article and the link:

LIFELONG FRIENDS

Janelle and Stacy had been friends since they were toddlers. The McCall and Kirby families lived near each other in Battlefield. Janelle's mom had watched Stacy when she was three or four.
The two girls became best friends, playing in the neighborhood and preparing for kindergarten at the same time. Pictures in Janelle's photo album show the two at a birthday party, big grins etched across their faces.
In second grade, Stacy and Janelle met Suzie, a tall blonde who had a small tumor on her chin. Suzie had been held back in second grade and was a year older. But the three connected, sometimes spending the night together.
The McCalls moved out of state when Stacy was 11, and it was just Janelle and Suzie. When Stacy moved back a couple of years later, things were different.
"From then on, it wasn't the same," Janelle Kirby says. Instead of three, it was typically two. Sometimes Janelle and Stacy. Sometimes Janelle and Suzie.
And as high school approached, Stacy migrated toward the popular crowd and Suzie tilted toward a more rowdy bunch. Janelle was the glue for the three.
But a couple of months before graduation, the three rekindled the closeness of childhood. Janelle and Stacy remained close, like sisters. They took the ACT together, celebrated their 18th birthdays. Went to prom.
"It was a big month for us," Janelle says.
Suzie was back in the picture, too. Especially on graduation.
The girls were happy, headed for an uncertain but promising future.
Stacy and Janelle would go to Southwest Missouri State, and they were thinking about pledging a sorority.
Suzie was headed for cosmetology school, following in the footsteps of her mother Sherrill, who had more than 250 clients at New Attitudes Hair Salon.
But before all that, they would have a few days of fun. And it would start on graduation night.
Before the three left the graduation ceremony at SMS, they intended to meet at Janelle's around 8 p.m., go to a party next door, then to another across town and finally drive to a hotel in Branson and hit White Water the following morning.


LAST-MINUTE DECISION

Stacy knew her parents were worried about the girls driving to Branson late at night. All Janis and Stu McCall could think about was the night of their own graduation, when two friends were killed in a traffic accident.
Stacy called home about 10:30 p.m. with a change of plans. The girls had decided to play it safe.
"We're not going to leave tonight," Stacy told her mom over the phone. "We're going to White Water in the morning, and I'm going to stay here at Janelle's."
"Call me before you leave for White Water," Janis told her daughter.
"All right, I will," Stacy answered. "Good night."
Janis felt assured. She went to bed. A long, happy day had ended.

The girls loaded up and went to another party at friend Michelle Elder's house. Stacy and Michelle agreed that they should do more together.
But the party on East Hanover street got a little loud, and a neighbor called police. An officer showed up about 1:40 a.m., shooing partyers away.

Suzie and Stacy went to their cars parked at Janelle's. Her mom, Kathy Kirby, had a pallet laid out on her living room floor for Suzie and Stacy. Janelle would sleep on the couch because family members from out of town were sleeping in her bedroom.
Suzie and Stacy decided they would be more comfortable sleeping on Suzie's new waterbed, and told Janelle they'd see her in the morning.
Kathy Kirby woke up when her daughter came in the front door. She heard the girls outside.
"Follow me to my house," Suzie told her friend.
"OK," Stacy answered. "I will."

http://streeterfamilyblogg.blogspot.com/p/ten-years.html

 

[CaliMama]

I'm in agreement with others and think there is a huge possibility that Stacy brought her swimsuit into the house with her that night so she could put it on under her clothes in the morning. I also agree about the towel issue, so I'm thinking she very likely had a towel in her car and left it there b/c she didnt need it the next morning during her "getting ready" stage of the day. She then would just grab the towel out of her car on their way out. The towel could have even been in a beach bag, for instance, I always take a somewhat small beach bag with me that only has a towel, lotions and sometimes magazines.

P.S. I graduated hs in 01 and I wouldn't have brought an extra change of clean clothing either just to wear for the short drive home. I sometimes even just drive home in my coverup over my somewhat damp bathing suit that i've let air dry while laying out in the sun.

Also, Janelle showed up at the Delamr house that Sunday night in damp clothing after being at a waterpark that afternoon, so would it be unheard of for Stacy to have done the same?

Just my opinion...

At the risk of grossing everyone out, when I was a teen, I never changed out of my suit after being in the water right away. It usually dried pretty quickly on its own in the Missouri heat. Also, swimsuits dry more quickly than the shorts that end up getting wet as a result of wearing a wet swimsuit underneath. I think this is because I grew up going to the river and the lake and there were no bathrooms to change in and was told to let myself air dry I can't stand being in a wet swimming suit for very long as adult though...

 

[former central time]

To come to a mutual understanding, I think we have to summarize that most of our h/s experiences were different. Many approach this case, appearing that 'that's how everybody celebrated h/s graduation.' Not me and my close friends, but I do know plenty who did, everyone was different. High school was not a big event in my life, it appears very influential to these girls. College was the transcendental moment for me. I graduated h/s in 1985, with a graduating class of 535 (to be precise). I attended a handful of 'parties,' mostly by adult friends and family. That's the only place where alcohol was involved. A few student parties, only during the day and non alcoholic. Had I spent the night at a house my parents didn't know about, there would be hell to pay the next morning. In that era of my life, as it would be today, I would have had an overnight bag if I wasn't returning home, but I know of those who didn't. One of the things I find interesting is all these separate cars. Often, when groups of folks went out to parties, there were established 'rides' and they picked everyone up at their house. Even with constant changing plans, group rides are not unusual.

To jump to the bag issue, we don't know if one existed or not, just that it has been made public IF it did exist. I can see Mule's point about a bag as such being a trophy, and that would be damming to the defense. But, it could be argued as circumstantial. Say Scumball took part in the crime and has the bag...years later he gives it to Sleezebag with other papers or stuff for 'keeping,' Sleezebag never took part in the crime. Scumball is dead, or somehow out of the picture/out of reach, and the bag is found in Sleezebag's possession, he contests his innocents. This is reminiscent of the so called 'Fish Story' of the Lindbergh Kidnapping case, although in this case, Stacy's bag probably didn't have a shoe box of gold certificates in it.

As to why LE would withhold this information is very understandable and it probably wouldn't be the only bit. While it's great and all to summon the public's help, information not known to the 'other side' is the most valuable information of all. And, just because the media hasn't exposed something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Without being too cynical, this boils down to one thing, that is vogue with the kids, and attorneys on both sides have told me this in my travels...'WINNING.'

 

[CaliMama]

Yes, I agree on all parts MOMule's scenario is an interesting one and I can also see his point as well.

It feels like to me that the van (yes I believe there was a van) and everything that was ever in it will never be found.

Can I ask a question? Of all of the suspects, who's in prison right now? Who has a reason to talk and who doesn't?

P.S. Also, I put my pic as my avatar a couple of times then took it down for security reasons. Am I being too paranoid?

 

[CaliMama]

To come to a mutual understanding, I think we have to summarize that most of our h/s experiences were different. Many approach this case, appearing that 'that's how everybody celebrated h/s graduation.' Not me and my close friends, but I do know plenty who did, everyone was different. High school was not a big event in my life, it appears very influential to these girls. College was the transcendental moment for me. I graduated h/s in 1985, with a graduating class of 535 (to be precise). I attended a handful of 'parties,' mostly by adult friends and family. That's the only place where alcohol was involved. A few student parties, only during the day and non alcoholic. Had I spent the night at a house my parents didn't know about, there would be hell to pay the next morning. In that era of my life, as it would be today, I would have had an overnight bag if I wasn't returning home, but I know of those who didn't. One of the things I find interesting is all these separate cars. Often, when groups of folks went out to parties, there were established 'rides' and they picked everyone up at their house. Even with constant changing plans, group rides are not unusual.

To jump to the bag issue, we don't know if one existed or not, just that it has been made public IF it did exist. I can see Mule's point about a bag as such being a trophy, and that would be damming to the defense. But, it could be argued as circumstantial. Say Scumball took part in the crime and has the bag...years later he gives it to Sleezebag with other papers or stuff for 'keeping,' Sleezebag never took part in the crime. Scumball is dead, or somehow out of the picture/out of reach, and the bag is found in Sleezebag's possession, he contests his innocents. This is reminiscent of the so called 'Fish Story' of the Lindbergh Kidnapping case, although in this case, Stacy's bag probably didn't have a shoe box of gold certificates in it.

As to why LE would withhold this information is very understandable and it probably wouldn't be the only bit. While it's great and all to summon the public's help, information not known to the 'other side' is the most valuable information of all. And, just because the media hasn't exposed something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Without being too cynical, this boils down to one thing, that is vogue with the kids, and attorneys on both sides have told me this in my travels...'WINNING.'

This was what I was alluding to before when I made someone mad and he has never come back. I think that winning needs to be taken out of the picture. It has been 20 years. At this point, something is better than nothing

Oh and my hs grad class was 314 Why do I remember these things!!!??? Anyway, we also had a project graduation like the girls did. I went to it but we had graduation parties before and after it that included alcohol. We never dressed up for parties. We wore what looked best on us and our favorite jeans/shorts and hung out and had a great time. Parties were all always very casual. I graduated in 1989 and the only time we got dressed up was for prom and dances.

AH..you have stumbled upon something. Separate cars. We never took separate cars UNLESS we had no idea what the plans were going to be that night!!! Otherwise, we always piled into one car (usually the coolest car) and headed out for our adventures.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Yes, I agree on all parts MOMule's scenario is an interesting one and I can also see his point as well.

It feels like to me that the van (yes I believe there was a van) and everything that was ever in it will never be found.

Can I ask a question? Of all of the suspects, who's in prison right now? Who has a reason to talk and who doesn't?

P.S. Also, I put my pic as my avatar a couple of times then took it down for security reasons. Am I being too paranoid?

Well we know that Cox and Garrison are in the slammer for sure. Carnahan has been mentioned but I don't know that he is a genuine suspect although frequently mentioned. Garrison is in for life and only eligible for parole when he is 109 years sold. Cox could be paroled in 2025 and many people believe he knows where the bodies/remains are buried, but not necessarily involved. I doubt that Garrison really knows anything. I wouldn't put anything past Carnahan if he is involved.

We don't know who the GJ3 were although there are suspicions. Among those individuals (two who are are potentially on the street), may be the person who was one of the perps.

What I have labored to find out is what the motive was. Therein lies the key. Some believe that only a confession will solve this case. I am coming around to that view myself.