Jolynna
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They haven't been released AFAIK.Do we have the text messges between tony and casey on the 15th of June?
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They haven't been released AFAIK.Do we have the text messges between tony and casey on the 15th of June?
I am curious why would GA be home at 10:18pm on the 16th if he worked 3 to 11pm? Are we for sure he worked that day?
In the latest document dump, Tony did say he believed he drove to Blockbuster.
The 7:45 a.m. on 6-16 was Casey picking up her voice mail. She picked up her messages twice that day. Once at 7:45 a.m. and then again just after 8 p.m.
:waitasec: Makes me wonder if FBI or SA is still holding on the the contents of the owner profile. I know there was SOMETHING there if it showed heavy activity between 2 -3 PM.
I am ready to see that in a doc dump.
SNIPPED: " ... The last piece of computer evidence we have is from her photobucket account. In this case a single picture of Fusian was uploaded to her Photobucket at 10:27 AM...."
I'm confused. I thought that the Fusian photo was uploaded around 9:27 a.m.
Did you read his transcript that was in the last release?
I found there to be more information than the previous release.
He states that the night chats on June 15/16th were "lovey-dovey" stuff.
They had no real set plans for the next day.
He said she did not go out and check on her car during the movie. That nothing seemed unusual.
They slept in and he skipped a day of school on the 17th to have sex until late morning.
IIRC, Sunday (Father's day) they just hung out at the apartment.
Ah...the confusion is that the Photobucket time stamps are all Central Time. I converted to Eastern Time.
I thought for sure that I did, but now it seems hard to remember. I need to go back and relook.Did you read his transcript that was in the last release?
I found there to be more information than the previous release.
He states that the night chats on June 15/16th were "lovey-dovey" stuff.
They had no real set plans for the next day.
He said she did not go out and check on her car during the movie. That nothing seemed unusual.
They slept in and he skipped a day of school on the 17th to have sex until late morning.
IIRC, Sunday (Father's day) they just hung out at the apartment.
This does make sense with what we have heard from Casey's friends, Amy, about Cindy calling Casey everytime they went out. It is curious that the A's have left this out of any discussions, I am sure Caylee was a wonderful child, but all children that age (or many of them) have difficulty going to sleep if they are not in familar surroundings, ie; Caylee was used to sleeping with Casey. We know that Amy said that Caylee wouldn't even let her hold her and cried if Casey left the room to go to the bathroom. This supports the theory, IMO, that there were issues and I'll bet this lead to MANY fights between Cindy and Casey. Cindy has to get up early for work, Casey is not home and Caylee won't go to sleep. I am starting to lean towards the fight on the 15th being a,... you need to grow up and mother your daughter talk from Cindy, with I'm not babysitting anymore thrown in for good measure. On the 16th the "flurry" of phone calls from KC to Cindy, I agree, looks like she's wanting a babysitter. One of Cindy's co workers said that Cindy had complained about having to watch Caylee too much, if I remember correctly.I'm unable to source it...but, thinking lately that the co-sleeping arrangement w/ Caylee & Casey I'm hearing more about may have been at the core of the dynamic fueling Casey's actions, and Caylee's demise 6/16PM.
If accurate, Caylee not able/willing to go to sleep w/o Casey was perhaps...
- the reason she shared the bed w/ Casey & Ricardo.
- the reason it may have been difficult for Cindy to keep Caylee w/o Casey @ home @ bedtime - creating a tie that binds - and a directly compelling reason for Cindy to want Casey on a short leash...totally crashing any evening-out plans Casey might want to make...ever
- the reason Tony represented such a self-serving symbol of 'freedom'. His postion that his apt. was not a good place for Caylee - while it created an issue - also created a dream-come-true excuse for Casey to jettison the ball-and-chain responsiblity that was her daughter :furious: if only for a few hours at a time...
Interesting that we haven't heard anything from G or C about this dynamic and ZFG. :waitasec: IOW...if Cindy had difficulty getting Caylee to go down...she was willing to believe that ZFG got her down w/o issue...OR...she was curious about it and discussed it w/ Casey and we aren't hearing about this detail.
This may have also been a spark for the 6/15PM fight, with Casey wanting to escape back to Tony's..(esp. if Nate was outta town) and Cindy needing to go to work 6/16AM...not wanting to deal w/ an inevitablely tearful and protracted bedtime that night.
Under the circumstances of the evening, 6/16, I can easily envision a Casey blow-up 6/16PM whilst she tried to get Caylee down so she could escape to Blockbuster & Tony...perhaps in the Pontiac w/ some OTC/Rx assistance....not working fast enough...duct tape employed Casey thought...She TRIED to get Cindy to let her drop Caylee off @ Gentiva! She TRIED to get Amy! It'll just be a few hours...right?!?!
This does make sense with what we have heard from Casey's friends, Amy, about Cindy calling Casey everytime they went out. It is curious that the A's have left this out of any discussions, I am sure Caylee was a wonderful child, but all children that age (or many of them) have difficulty going to sleep if they are not in familar surroundings, ie; Caylee was used to sleeping with Casey. We know that Amy said that Caylee wouldn't even let her hold her and cried if Casey left the room to go to the bathroom. This supports the theory, IMO, that there were issues and I'll bet this lead to MANY fights between Cindy and Casey. Cindy has to get up early for work, Casey is not home and Caylee won't go to sleep. I am starting to lean towards the fight on the 15th being a,... you need to grow up and mother your daughter talk from Cindy, with I'm not babysitting anymore thrown in for good measure. On the 16th the "flurry" of phone calls from KC to Cindy, I agree, looks like she's wanting a babysitter. One of Cindy's co workers said that Cindy had complained about having to watch Caylee too much, if I remember correctly.
Good question, there are some things that we have not heard yet. Most of it, in my mind, is from Tony...so many questions they must have asked him and he must have answered. Like at Blockbuster, who picked out the movies, if it was Casey did she stand there for awhile reading about the movie ? Were there any conversations in BB about the movie they were picking ? The conversations they had on the night of the 15th, morning of 16th...did he hear Caylee during any of those calls ? If so, which ones and what time was it ? Also, did he talk to Casey on the 15th about her needing to find someone to watch Caylee ? I would like to hear if Tony remembers Caylee carrying her doll "mama" everywhere with her, during the last times that he saw her alive, did Caylee insist on having it when he saw her ?I'd like to know if Casey asked Jesse or Amy to watch Caylee when she talked to them on 6-16.
I've read what Jesse says Casey talked to him about, but I don't know what Casey said to Amy.
I appreciate you sharing your experience LB, and I read your post early in the thread (stayed up all night last night reading the whole thread), it was wonderful. I am sorry you had to endure such pain, but I am so glad you survived it. You provide much needed insight to those of us that can't relate to the A's. I guess there are different kinds and different levels of "dysfunction" and my childhood would qualify, but where it fits according to other people's "dysfunction", I am not sure. I have a mother, also, that selectively remembers the good things, there were not that many, so I guess it's pretty easy. I mainly wanted to thank you for sharing your experience with me, sorry for the long way around..I have problems "getting to the point". Hopefully you get my drift.I do not know what in the holy heck went on in that household...I am just guessing from my own experience. I shared a little bit of it earlier in the thread. One of my worst memories was right before I was hospitalized for jaundice. At the time, I was 8 and my liver almost failed me. I was yellow...big bird yellow. My dad had no patience. He drank. An after 5 drinker. Anyway, right before I was in the hospital...I couldn't keep anything down. Literally. I threw up at the dinner table. My dad and mother began screaming at me. My dad, pulled my hair back like in a really tight pony tail hold and made me eat my own vomit. I say this only because something obviously went down in that house. I know it had to have. I don't care if KC was a prostitute and stealing money. The night before Caylee was murdered, KC was literally almost choked to death by her mother. I don't think that is something that anyone can just file away. I chose to be the best person I could be. To continue to better myself no matter what. I still love my parents. Heck, my mom, was in the kitchen for that incident and yet doesn't recall it. I understand this kind of household. I understand that KC and Lee probably went through the worst kind of hell in their minds...but I don't understand how lack of sympathy/empathy for the people tormenting you leads you to harm a child. I wouldn't harm a bee and I am allergic to their stings. I think that the fight was all that KC needed to lash out at her parents. Sorry for the overshare. I just feel reallly strongly about these kinds of households. It looks perfect from the outside. But inside...there is just nowhere to hide. I am not at all excusing Casey. Not at all.
The above post is incorrect. Casey was not at TL's all day June 15 until around 7 p.m.
See Pings for June 15 (from Case Calendar for June, http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?month=6&year=2008&c=4&do=displaymonth)
here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=243&day=2008-6-15&c=4
and from June 14:
here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=242&day=2008-6-14&c=4
So, to the contrary, Casey was at her parents' home from approx. 3:48 p.m. on Saturday, June 14, until 3:46 p.m. the next day, Father's Day, Sunday, June 15, THEN she left for Tony's, was gone almost 4 hours to the dot, arriving back at the Anthony home around 7:46 p.m.
I'm a firm believer that the argument began when Cindy arrived at the Anthony home with Caylee that afternoon, prompting Casey to flee for a few hours to TonyL's, only to return later, whereupon the fight continued escalating. There was no swimming going on after Casey left the Anthony home for those 4 hours on Father's Day Sunday.
I'm going to go over the data again to make sure I've not made an error. As I re-do all my research, I will type it here in real time, then go back and check my calendar entries. SNIPPED
*respectfully snipped*I do not know what in the holy heck went on in that household...I am just guessing from my own experience.
I have been working off of a printed copy of the discovery documents, not an Excel file. My post above matches my calendar entries. PM me if desired.
Sunday 6/15
-pings near home until 9:15 AM when cell pings near TL
-then no activity until almost 2PM; pings start again from TL at that time
-pings near TL until 7:10 PM; then pings from home rest of evening and past midnight
Monday 6/16
-pings near home until 4:14 PM; then pings in travel
-pings near TL from 4:25 PM until 11:17 PM; then no cellular activity until 6/17 at 10:52 AM near TL
...meanwhile...back @ the theory ranch...:cow: :bud: :cow:
After staying up until at least 3:22AM texting w/ Tony...
@ 7:45AM 6/16 we have the call from G&C's home phone to Casey's phone. Speculation that this call served one of two purposes
(a) Casey attempting to locate the phone itself, or,
(b) Cindy attempting to locate Casey
FWIW, I'm not clear on Cindy's start-time @ Gentiva, but, since it is located in the vicinity of Tony's apt. we can approximate the travel time to be ~20mins. I'm also not sure 'bout everyone else's experience, but, my little girl thinks 'sleeping in' means getting up <6:30AM :sleep:...so...just for grins...perhaps well-rested Caylee was up & at'em around the time Cindy was leaving for work 6/16 and one or both of them roused Casey (no offense to murdered overnight theorists) since Cindy was leaving and George was prolly still snoozin' after his evening-shift too - sleepy Casey was faced w/ entertaining Caylee. After Cindy left Casey emerged from the bedroom for food/bathroom, whatever, and wanted to see if she had any messages/texts from Tony so she called her phone herself to locate it. "Found it"...no messages (OK...it was initially beyond me how Casey wouldn't have known where her phone was after having it in her hands all night...:waitasec:...unless maybe it was lost in the sheets...or had fallen down behind/under the bed...OK...workable).
@ 8:46AM Casey sent a text to Tony...waited...no response
@ 10:27AM, IIRC, we have computer forensics showing Casey uploaded Fusian pics to photobucket (lil' help w/ the time here?)
@ 11:47AM after 3 hours passed since her text to Tony...he called her
By somewhere around this time George is up & about.
IF we pause here for a moment...is there anything we can conclude?
- Did Casey apply the duct tape & heart to Caylee to keep her quiet until Cindy left after the possible fight between the 2 as the last event of 6/15 that ended w/ Casey going into the bedroom and closing/slamming/locking the door?
It seems to me that there's room to consider this...since Casey was certainly tired from lack of sleep, since she prolly didn't wanna see Cindy, and it would've continued the dig @ Cindy by keeping Caylee from her (take that!). The no-shoes-on-Caylee's body camp would like this I'm sure.However...if Casey had a dead Caylee in the house whilst the only other person @ home, George, was asleep...wouldn't it seem the ripe opportunity to get-the-helloutta-Dodge? :waitasec: Instead, Casey sat down and uploaded pics to Photobucket....nline:
- That Casey received the call from Tony @ 11:47 after 3 hours of inactivity allows us to consider that she may have employed the duct tape to enable her to catch some z's after she uploaded the Photobucket pics.
:waitasec: That's possible. That option woulda left Casey with discovering a dead Caylee whilst George was up and about and before he left for work. Casey woulda been doing whatever she had to in order to keep George at bay. Can't rule this out entirely. George's call home @ 3:03PM coulda been to check on an allegedly 'sick' Caylee that was 'resting' in bed...not to be disturbed. FWIW, the ADD on this option doesn't give a stellar bagging date & time (mid-morning 6/19 whilst near Tony's apt.).
Consider also, during this timeframe Casey has two phone conversations w/ Tony (19 & 14mins each) and @ 1:44PM (before George woulda left for work) Casey placed a call to Amy and talked for 36mins before Casey switched over to take an incoming call from Jesse - aparrently the result of a text exchange the two had before Casey called Amy. While its possible Casey did all of this from her bedroom, it does seem she was pretty otherwise occuppied if keeping George @ bay was paramount.
IIRC, computer forensics show some surfing that afternoon ~3PM, which might be worth another look. If we look @ all of the above, once George FINALLY left the house...if Casey knew she had a dead Caylee on her hands, IMHO, it seems highly unlikely her first George-free hour to act would be spent surfing, etc. nline: Worth another look...:sleuth:...what was she interested in that afternoon?
Since I think we can now (post release of the home phone & George's cell records) consider that Casey was @ home w/ Caylee when George left 6/16, it opens up the door to how Caylee might've gotten into the car w/o shoes...since Caylee woulda likely been napping still when George left for work. Whether Caylee was alive or not when she was placed in the car...well...carry on...
Quoting myself...bad form and all.
I was REAALLLLY hoping to get some discussion on the above. Somebody start poking away at this stuff already...oke:...please.