Trial Discussion Thread #3 - 14.03.08-09, Weekend

[FrancesB]

Hi everyone, phew, I've been reading this board for ages and wanted to join, now I'm finally in! There are so many interesting points of view here, some of which I have been thinking of for many months. Have to say, I think Pistorius was in a rage, argued with Reeva, terrorized her and finally fired 4 shots and hit her 3 times, all while she was screaming, as testified by 5 witnesses.

So many holes in his story, I didn't believe him from the start.

I look forward to contributing and reading and learning!

 

[shane13]

Pajama set or not pajama set? Why? I would like to know the reason of questioning. fftobed:

Blood?

 

[sorrell skye]

Hi everyone, phew, I've been reading this board for ages and wanted to join, now I'm finally in! There are so many interesting points of view here, some of which I have been thinking of for many months. Have to say, I think Pistorius was in a rage, argued with Reeva, terrorized her and finally fired 4 shots and hit her 3 times, all while she was screaming, as testified by 5 witnesses.

So many holes in his story, I didn't believe him from the start.

I look forward to contributing and reading and learning!

:welcome: FrancesB! It's great to have you!

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I wouldn't underestimate him. I believe that in certain instances where it appears that he is trying to get the witnesses to change their testimony, his actual purpose is to lock them in to their version and also to demonstrate their bias and refusal to consider possibilities that do not align with their beliefs about Oscar's guilt.

I agree he is in his element - he has a presence that suggests he is in command, even with the judge. He is aggravating for sure.

ETA: He has pretty well established that a cricket bat hitting the door can sound like gunshots, as Stipp said they sounded identical. Roux knew this would be Stipp's testimony, and I believe this is why he really got Burger to twist herself in knots over her certainty that she heard gunshots and it could not possibly be the cricket bat hitting the door -- her dogmatic insistence and refusal to admit even the possibility paints her as unreasonable and biased.

What is dogmatic insistence in the witness's testimony? A gunshot sounds like a gunshot and a bat hit sounds like a bat. The witness well knows what she heard.
Knowing what exactly she heard and telling that under oath doesn't make her biased . There is zero possibility that they sound the same . So she is very reasonable imo.

 

[aa9511]

Ok, I just responded to a post of yours that chastised me for saying the evidence established anything because we've only heard limited evidence. Now you're saying it has been "established" that Oscar is lying in his version of events. You even go so far as to predict a guilty verdict.

Would you mind laying out what evidence we've heard so far that "establishes" that Oscar is lying in his version?

ALL of the witnesses, who say they heard a woman screaming!!

 

[aa9511]

Hi everyone, phew, I've been reading this board for ages and wanted to join, now I'm finally in! There are so many interesting points of view here, some of which I have been thinking of for many months. Have to say, I think Pistorius was in a rage, argued with Reeva, terrorized her and finally fired 4 shots and hit her 3 times, all while she was screaming, as testified by 5 witnesses.

So many holes in his story, I didn't believe him from the start.

I look forward to contributing and reading and learning!

Welcome welcome!!

 

[Lyra500]

ALL of the witnesses, who say they heard a woman screaming!!

You obviously missed the memo which states that all of these people were misguided, foolish, stubborn in sticking to what they heard or a combination of all those things. They cannot possibly be right, because if they were, Oscar would be lying and that simply isn't possible. Why? Because he is Oscar Pistorius and under no circumstances can he be called a liar.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Hi everyone, phew, I've been reading this board for ages and wanted to join, now I'm finally in! There are so many interesting points of view here, some of which I have been thinking of for many months. Have to say, I think Pistorius was in a rage, argued with Reeva, terrorized her and finally fired 4 shots and hit her 3 times, all while she was screaming, as testified by 5 witnesses.

So many holes in his story, I didn't believe him from the start.

I look forward to contributing and reading and learning!

:welcome6:

 

[Interested Bystander]

Why are the phone records incorrect and could it matter?

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Shout-tests-done-at-Pistorius-house-20140307

He questioned Stipp on whether he was sure about his testimony that he had twice tried to call the security at the complex.

Stipp agreed, adding that he could not get through the first time around.

Roux said the State had provided phone records of the security company and those showed that Stipp's first call did not go through, but the second call went unanswered.

Stipp maintained he was able to get through to security on his second try.

 

[sorrell skye]

From The Telegraph:

In his affidavit, Pistorius says he called two numbers after realising he shot Steenkamp: Johan Stander, who was involved in the administration of the gated community where he lived and private medical service Netcare.

The prosecution is expected to probe his relationship with Stander and why Pistorius allegedly dismissed security guards who rang his house after hearing gun shots, telling them everything was fine.

The prosecution could attempt to prove Pistorius killed Steenkamp and then attempted to cover up evidence.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-trial-Three-key-questions-for-the-judge.html

The more I think about it, the more suspicious I'm becoming about OP phoning Stander (who is an administrator of Silver Woods), while shunning the phone call from Pieter Baba, who was the lead security officer on duty that night, by telling him "Security, everything is fine."

I hope the prosecution DOES probe OP's relationship with Stander, as the above article has suggested.

 

[Lyra500]

I have wondered if at times Roux is making this confusing on purpose.

It seems easy enough to just produce the phone records and get the timeline down pat - I guess that will happen during the defense case.

I think muddying the water is exactly what Roux is doing. He neds to introduce enough confusion to argue that OP cannot be found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt

Hence the attempts to catch the witnesses out or browbeat them into changing their testimony or admit they were mistaken; to cause huge confusion about what happened when and who made what phonecalls.

 

[Interested Bystander]

ALL of the witnesses, who say they heard a woman screaming!!

I think Minor 4th may think that Oscar can scream like a woman but I am sure she will let you know. The Defence Team think they can prove it. They say they have a recording.

I would like to hear him be made to scream in court. He could easily have been coached whilst out on bail to make his screaming voice sound authentic. Actors do it all the time. Now, am I saying Oscar could have been acting on the recording, yes I am. I doubt whether he got it right for the recording on the first time of trying.

 

[Lyra500]

Hi everyone, phew, I've been reading this board for ages and wanted to join, now I'm finally in! There are so many interesting points of view here, some of which I have been thinking of for many months. Have to say, I think Pistorius was in a rage, argued with Reeva, terrorized her and finally fired 4 shots and hit her 3 times, all while she was screaming, as testified by 5 witnesses.

So many holes in his story, I didn't believe him from the start.

I look forward to contributing and reading and learning!

Hi Frances. Welcome. I think we are probably of like mind as far as this case goes.:seeya:

 

[atthelake]

I think that part of the confusion on this timeline is because we are getting some of our time stamps from Roux. It appears that the lawyers in SA can bluff or lie to a witness, correct?

Agree, upthread I was stating it would have been beneficial for the prosecutor to lay out the timeline with phone records FIRST so this obfuscation/confusion didn't get a handle. :banghead:

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I think Minor 4th may think that Oscar can scream like a woman but I am sure he will let you know. The Defence Team think they can prove it. They say they have a recording.

I would like to hear him be made to scream in court. He could easily have been coached whilst out on bail to make his screaming voice sound authentic. Actors do it all the time. Now, am I saying Oscar could have been acting on the recording, yes I am. I doubt whether he got it right for the recording on the first time of trying.

Probably he is practicing that in case required to perform at court live..

 

[Cherwell]

I wouldn't underestimate him. I believe that in certain instances where it appears that he is trying to get the witnesses to change their testimony, his actual purpose is to lock them in to their version and also to demonstrate their bias and refusal to consider possibilities that do not align with their beliefs about Oscar's guilt.

I agree he is in his element - he has a presence that suggests he is in command, even with the judge. He is aggravating for sure.

ETA: He has pretty well established that a cricket bat hitting the door can sound like gunshots, as Stipp said they sounded identical. Roux knew this would be Stipp's testimony, and I believe this is why he really got Burger to twist herself in knots over her certainty that she heard gunshots and it could not possibly be the cricket bat hitting the door -- her dogmatic insistence and refusal to admit even the possibility paints her as unreasonable and biased.

I think muddying the water is exactly what Roux is doing. He neds to introduce enough confusion to argue that OP cannot be found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt

Hence the attempts to catch the witnesses out or browbeat them into changing their testimony or admit they were mistaken; to cause huge confusion about what happened when and who made what phonecalls.

These tactics might work with a jury, but I'm not so sure when there's only a judge, who will likely be wise to such ploys.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Probably he is practicing that in case required to perform at court live..

Oh dear you could be right.

 

[Lyra500]

These tactics might work with a jury, but I'm not so sure when there's only a judge, who will likely be wise to such ploys.

I am certainly hoping that turns out to be the case.

 

[kittychi]

What is the story of the 5th phone? I haven't heard of this

"Det Botha said four mobile phones were seized at the property, but none was used to call police or paramedics.

Mr Roux said there was another phone which the defendant had used to call for medical help at 03:20. He had also called a security guard. Det Botha said he had not been told about the other phone."

http://zambianeye.com/archives/18901

Minor4th: To my knowledge, it has never been established that this 5th phone was given up. It was taken from the scene and Botha was chastised for not asking for it. (Not sure how you would expect to recover 5 cell phones from a one-person household with one guest.)

LE may very well have gotten that 5th phone, but I have not seen anything to indicate that.

BTW: Why didn't you call yourself Major3rd?

 

[kittychi]

I wonder what was that 'noise ' like supposedly coming from his own loo just a few meters away that made him ' scream ' before shooting so wild and bloodcurdling that even neighbors from long away heard and
jumped out of their beds ..Frightened and terrified screams of Oscar and indeed sounding as a woman to an unknown intruder tearing up the night and making almost the whole estate alert and vigilant.. ending up a dead girlfriend in the loo. Makes no sense ..

One wonders whether he screamed the same way when he heard the washing machine sound :banghead:

...and simultaneously screaming in two voices...a woman's and a man's.



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