TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #2

[indicolite22]

So….I have semi-retired since the LVD trial and thought I would be able to follow this one more closely but I seem to be as busy in my semi-retirement as I was when I was working 24/7 as a hotel manager! I don’t have time to view everything I’ve missed and that includes most of yesterday and today so I just wanted to say thank you to those of you who are keeping us up to date here.

Can one of you clarify something for me? Several posters have mentioned that Chad said his authority came from the Church of the Firstborn. Was this something he said in the blessing he gave Alex? I’ve heard that blessing before or at least heard of it but from What WSers have said here it’s very long and I’m not going to have the time to listen to it now…but is that where he said it?

Also, can anyone explain why JP was asking a LE witness about the Church of the Firstborn and LDS? Wouldn’t it make more sense to call an LDS leader to explain what if any connection there is between the two? I’m not sure who was on the stand when they were talking about this but from what I’ve read here it sounded like a law enforcement officer who was raised in the LDS church - but it didn’t make sense to me that JP was questioning him about this. Was he some kind of religious expert for law enforcement? If not, why did the prosecution not object - if not for grounds that he wasn’t an expert at least that it was outside the scope of direct exam?

Yes, The Church of First Born was mentioned in Chad's blessing. JP is insinuating that Chad's doctrine was part of the mainstream LDS beliefs, so it couldn't possibly have been a cult. If it's not a cult, then Chad is not its leader. Of course asking a random police witness for confirmation won't suffice. The second spin was that Alex received Chad's blessing because he was of ill health.

 

[nodamselindistress]

So….I have semi-retired since the LVD trial and thought I would be able to follow this one more closely but I seem to be as busy in my semi-retirement as I was when I was working 24/7 as a hotel manager! I don’t have time to view everything I’ve missed and that includes most of yesterday and today so I just wanted to say thank you to those of you who are keeping us up to date here.

Can one of you clarify something for me? Several posters have mentioned that Chad said his authority came from the Church of the Firstborn. Was this something he said in the blessing he gave Alex? I’ve heard that blessing before or at least heard of it but from What WSers have said here it’s very long and I’m not going to have the time to listen to it now…but is that where he said it?

Also, can anyone explain why JP was asking a LE witness about the Church of the Firstborn and LDS? Wouldn’t it make more sense to call an LDS leader to explain what if any connection there is between the two? I’m not sure who was on the stand when they were talking about this but from what I’ve read here it sounded like a law enforcement officer who was raised in the LDS church - but it didn’t make sense to me that JP was questioning him about this. Was he some kind of religious expert for law enforcement? If not, why did the prosecution not object - if not for grounds that he wasn’t an expert at least that it was outside the scope of direct exam?

Congrats on the semi-retirement, hope your hours even out. I retired last year just in time for the LVD trial, which of course was not televised, but I kept up with all the tweets and stuff posted here.

In the Blessing Chad did state he had authority as such and such position (did not catch what that was) of the Church of the Firstborn to bless Alex. It seemed very long and Chad looked grim during the whole thing, kind of a down turned mouth. I have heard about the Blessing before but never heard all of it. I think it was over the phone as both CD and LVD were in Kauai at the time. You can hear tears and sniffing from someone on the call (guessing Alex or Lori). Lori's voice can also be heard on the call.

As to the Detective who was asked about the LDS doctrines, etc., it was an Arizona detective on the Charles Vallow murder case who was opining on all that. He grew up LDS but has since changed religions. He did not profess to be an expert and said he had also spoken with other LDS members in the department about their beliefs. I can't answer your questions about why no objections, the State seemed to take his word about LDS too.

 

[TMcgee]

Chad: “quick, let me think of a super secret code name that won’t be traced back to me”
“Chad… Dabal.”

A perfect example of his level of creativity and original thought.

ETA: was that audio played in the other trial? This is the first I’m hearing it.

 

[nodamselindistress]

I think I have heard that audio before about Chad inquiring about cremating CV and shipping his "cremains" to Louisiana. I specifically remember that word "cremains" for some reason.

The other hilarious moment when he did not know his own phone number!

I am unclear exactly what happened with CV's body though. I seem to recall Kay and Larry Woodcock very upset because LV would not allow JJ to attend the funeral or memorial or whatever.

 

[Ruminations]

Who understands what happened today regarding the unsealed motion?

I'm going to process at the keyboard, and hungrily search for a learned summary to make corrections or fill in gaps.

1) the State filed to block as an exhibit hundreds of text communications between Melanie Gibb and Ron Wood. The state felt it was a back door attempt to put Wood on the stand. (How so?)

2) The defense countered that these communications might be necessary to refresh Melanie Gibb's recollection while she testifies, and the exhibit might not be necessary if her memory does not need refreshing. The defense claimed there was not any illicit agenda to get Wood on the stand. (Sounds like something messy is going down when Prior questions Melanie Gibb.)

3) The judge said he does not have any intention to read the hundreds of communications. He will take them up as they come up or if they come up. He said that he stood by not seeing a need for Wood being a witness and thinks that changing is very unlikely. The judge acknowledged a recent attempt by the defense to call Wood.

So I guess, Prior "won," he can refresh Melanie Gibb's memory with a transcript if necessary. And the State got some reassurance that the judge is aware and not on board with efforts to call Wood as a witness, although not by suppressing this document.

It's all very cryptic to me.

MOO

Edit: mixed up names

 

[indicolite22]

Chad: “quick, let me think of a super secret code name that won’t be traced back to me”
“Chad… Dabal.”

A perfect example of his level of creativity and original thought.

ETA: was that audio played in the other trial? This is the first I’m hearing it.

Give him some credit. He changed Idaho to Iowa. Also, his middle name was Myron.

 

[mickey2942]

He realized that the witness was LDS and he isn't. It's probably a handicap in this case.

Interesting. Prior is not LDS. I guess that I assumed he was, but, maybe CD didn't want an LDS attorney. Or maybe he was turned down by several before he went to Prior. Bartholick dropped LVD and CD almost immediately after he knew what he was getting into.

I grew up LDS, seminary graduation. And the more in the weeds Prior goes into how CD went into his own interpretation of the LDS gospel, the more LDS people, if any are on the jury, will be inclined to believe that CD did in fact use religious beliefs to justify killing Tylee and JJ. But, that does not mean he is not guilty. He definitely is guilty. He knew it was wrong.

But Tammy's death, was purely for cash.

And my own opinion, is that LVD wanted JJ dead, to hurt and punish Kaye Woodcock, because she got the insurance money from Charles Vallow's death. And she wanted the Social Security money.

 

[Pipersand]

I think in arguing the state's motion, JP seemingly forgot that the rules of evidence actually control what he can ask on cross - and the Judge has the right to limit that cross based on the Idaho rules, and relevance. It seems JP wants to damage MG's credibility by showing her story evolved because of (in response to) the communications with the prosecutor. If she doesn't agree to that evolution on the stand, he will show the texts to "refresh her memory" - and this may possibly open the door to a need for the prosecutor to testify about their discussions and to what MG actually said at different times (so the impeachment is of MG).

 

[Ruminations]

I think in arguing the state's motion, JP seemingly forgot that the rules of evidence actually control what he can ask on cross - and the Judge has the right to limit that cross based on the Idaho rules, and relevance. It seems JP wants to damage MG's credibility by showing her story evolved because of (in response to) the communications with the prosecutor. If she doesn't agree to that evolution on the stand, he will show the texts to "refresh her memory" - and this may possibly open the door to a need for the prosecutor to testify about their discussions and to what MG actually said at different times (so the impeachment is of MG).

I went back to Chad's preliminary hearing and noticed that even then, Prior was 100% driven to conflate all of the beliefs that many would consider fringe with mainstream LDS.

I don't get the purpose, but wanted to do so then, and appears to want to now.

I am inclined to think that the debate is irrelevant to the murder trial for the most part. Murder is murder is murder. It doesn't matter if the murderers were fringe firstborns or mainstream firstborns.

Iindicolite had a point up threading that Chad couldn't be accused of leading the mainstream church but could be accused of leading a fringe group. It's a good point. But still, Chad did have influence over his circle in any case, as a cult leader or just a righteous church guy. So I don't see how disavowing the cult by making it all mainstream is super helpful.

Yet, conflating Chad's beliefs and the LDS church are very important to Prior. I wonder if the reason is as simple as Indico suggested.

I tried to quickly review Melanie Gibbs past court testimonies. Prior wanted to conflate the LDS church and other groups, while Melanie drew a distinction. Prior and Lori's attorneys said or insinuated that Melanie is a liar. Lori's attorneys attempted to get all of Melanie's testimony stricken from the case because she had some prosecution prep document leftover from the preliminary hearings that the defense felt they should have had before the trial. For some reason, paper about witness preparation between Melanie Gibb and Wood really is valuable to the defense. I'm not getting something....

MOO

 

[887sMtreme]

Chad: “quick, let me think of a super secret code name that won’t be traced back to me”
“Chad… Dabal.”

A perfect example of his level of creativity and original thought.

ETA: was that audio played in the other trial? This is the first I’m hearing it.

Every time I hear him speak, I wonder if he suffers from an intellectual deficiency of some sort.

 

[887sMtreme]

So….I have semi-retired since the LVD trial

<snipped for focus>
Semi-congratulations! I hope you’ll have more time to tear into life.

 

[watergirl62]

I went back to Chad's preliminary hearing and noticed that even then, Prior was 100% driven to conflate all of the beliefs that many would consider fringe with mainstream LDS.

I don't get the purpose, but wanted to do so then, and appears to want to now.

I am inclined to think that the debate is irrelevant to the murder trial for the most part. Murder is murder is murder. It doesn't matter if the murderers were fringe firstborns or mainstream firstborns.

Iindicolite had a point up threading that Chad couldn't be accused of leading the mainstream church but could be accused of leading a fringe group. It's a good point. But still, Chad did have influence over his circle in any case, as a cult leader or just a righteous church guy. So I don't see how disavowing the cult by making it all mainstream is super helpful.

Yet, conflating Chad's beliefs and the LDS church are very important to Prior. I wonder if the reason is as simple as Indico suggested.

I tried to quickly review Melanie Gibbs past court testimonies. Prior wanted to conflate the LDS church and other groups, while Melanie drew a distinction. Prior and Lori's attorneys said or insinuated that Melanie is a liar. Lori's attorneys attempted to get all of Melanie's testimony stricken from the case because she had some prosecution prep document leftover from the preliminary hearings that the defense felt they should have had before the trial. For some reason, paper about witness preparation between Melanie Gibb and Wood really is valuable to the defense. I'm not getting something....

MOO

Nate discusses this starting around 43:00 (right after the funeral home calls).

 

[887sMtreme]

I think it's an act. Like someone said several days ago, he is trying to project how difficult this all is for him in a David vs Goliath contest.

This is exactly the kind of thing I was worried about when I recently re-introduced the topic of LDS Church membership among the jury. There is a lot of doctrinal underpinning to this case. I expect non-LDS people, wanting to be gracious, would try not to think it’s all just whackadoodle. LDS folk might get the nuances or they might not. In the end, does it matter? Murder is murder is murder. I hope the prosecution will emphasize the hard evidence they have. Because really, does Chad’s belief system matter if his phone pings and DNA are all over these crimes?

 

[Riverdoc]

Websleuth friends, do you think Audrey Barritarrio (sp?) will be testifying?

 

[Love Never Fails]

I went back to Chad's preliminary hearing and noticed that even then, Prior was 100% driven to conflate all of the beliefs that many would consider fringe with mainstream LDS.

I don't get the purpose, but wanted to do so then, and appears to want to now.

I am inclined to think that the debate is irrelevant to the murder trial for the most part. Murder is murder is murder. It doesn't matter if the murderers were fringe firstborns or mainstream firstborns.

Iindicolite had a point up threading that Chad couldn't be accused of leading the mainstream church but could be accused of leading a fringe group. It's a good point. But still, Chad did have influence over his circle in any case, as a cult leader or just a righteous church guy. So I don't see how disavowing the cult by making it all mainstream is super helpful.

Yet, conflating Chad's beliefs and the LDS church are very important to Prior. I wonder if the reason is as simple as Indico suggested.

I tried to quickly review Melanie Gibbs past court testimonies. Prior wanted to conflate the LDS church and other groups, while Melanie drew a distinction. Prior and Lori's attorneys said or insinuated that Melanie is a liar. Lori's attorneys attempted to get all of Melanie's testimony stricken from the case because she had some prosecution prep document leftover from the preliminary hearings that the defense felt they should have had before the trial. For some reason, paper about witness preparation between Melanie Gibb and Wood really is valuable to the defense. I'm not getting something....

MOO

My own opinion is that MG as a witness is like calling a convict (snitch) to help convict someone. She can help sure, but she should have been charged as a conspirator also. So should Melanie Pawlowski. Zero respect from me. They could have saved all those lives.
I also dislike both Melani(e)s for giving up their children and husbands because Chad and Lori told them to. (Melani Gibb even has an autistic son.). Then she married David Warwick and they either divorced or are living separately. Those people should be rounded up and put away for the safety of others. You can’t just kill people because you think you are part of Chad’s 144K. That should have rang a bell for anyone with half a brain.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Websleuth friends, do you think Audrey Barritarrio (sp?) will be testifying?

I think she helped put Lori away but i do not think the prosecution will call her. She would only bolster the defense (as in Lori is the evil one).

 

[Love Never Fails]

Yes, The Church of First Born was mentioned in Chad's blessing. JP is insinuating that Chad's doctrine was part of the mainstream LDS beliefs, so it couldn't possibly have been a cult. If it's not a cult, then Chad is not its leader. Of course asking a random police witness for confirmation won't suffice. The second spin was that Alex received Chad's blessing because he was of ill health.

Remember what Chad said to Alex in his “blessing”? It was that Alex would know “when” to lay down his life. Well, that blessing was around Thanksgiving. Tammy Daybell was exhumed the very first part of December. The VERY NEXT DAY Alex conveniently laid his life down. Couldn’t be more convenient for Chad, Lori, or Zulema, could it?

 

[Riverdoc]

I think she helped put Lori away but i do not think the prosecution will call her. She would only bolster the defense (as in Lori is the evil one).

I was reviewing her testimony and Chad had plenty of conversation with her. He told her Tammy would die a good 9 months before she did. She was told about Tammy being possessed by viola, and also heard conversations about how Tammy’s body wouldn’t die which she found disturbing.

 

[aafromaa]

<snipped for focus>
Semi-congratulations! I hope you’ll have more time to tear into life.

Thanks 887! I seem to be tearing into things I didn’t realize I’d put off for the past decade! But still working part time and it seems that’s been busier since this trial started than it’s supposed to be lol. But thank goodness I have WS to catch me up on what I miss!

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780405127502795243