TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #2

[MTW2011]

I saw elsewhere on social media and was curious to look this up more myself and see if it was true. A user had posted that the attorney hired to replace Smith was previously suspended & disciplined for taking money from clients and doing no work in exchange, failing to disclose to his clients that he was having a “nonlawyer” assistant do work on their cases, failing to keep them updated about their cases, and billing his clients for work his he had a nonlawyer do. Beyond the allegations made to the Bar, he admitted to all of the above and that he violated the Rules of Professional Conduct.

I’m a bit surprised that they’d choose someone who had their law license suspended, especially considering all the flack around Attorney Means & how they wanted to disqualify him. Was there really no other attorney who hasn’t lost their license that could’ve joined the team? The way Prior throws around some allegations I won’t be surprised if some comments somehow comes out about Prosecutor Wixom’s past. It would be inappropriate but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t try. Just seems ironic with how harshly they criticized Means for allegedly breaking the Rules and here you have an attorney who admitted to doing so for several years. JMOO though. Also the disciplinary record that I found online is attached

 

[ReadySet]

I saw elsewhere on social media and was curious to look this up more myself and see if it was true. A user had posted that the attorney hired to replace Smith was previously suspended & disciplined for taking money from clients and doing no work in exchange, failing to disclose to his clients that he was having a “nonlawyer” assistant do work on their cases, failing to keep them updated about their cases, and billing his clients for work his he had a nonlawyer do. Beyond the allegations made to the Bar, he admitted to all of the above and that he violated the Rules of Professional Conduct.

I’m a bit surprised that they’d choose someone who had their law license suspended, especially considering all the flack around Attorney Means & how they wanted to disqualify him. Was there really no other attorney who hasn’t lost their license that could’ve joined the team? The way Prior throws around some allegations I won’t be surprised if some comments somehow comes out about Prosecutor Wixom’s past. It would be inappropriate but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t try. Just seems ironic with how harshly they criticized Means for allegedly breaking the Rules and here you have an attorney who admitted to doing so for several years. JMOO though. Also the disciplinary record that I found online is attached

It does say his suspension was withheld and he continued to practice under probation. So did he actually lose his license?
It also speaks of mitigating reasons. And, this was 11 years ago.

Speaking of Mark Means, I wonder if he is still seething that he was taken off the case.

 

[indicolite22]

It does say his suspension was withheld and he continued to practice under probation. So did he actually lose his license?
It also speaks of mitigating reasons. And, this was 11 years ago.

Speaking of Mark Means, I wonder if he is still seething that he was taken off the case.

IMO there was no other choice. He did represent both Chad and Lori at one time. He also caused a scandal by employing a youtuber to aid in Lori's defense, which might have cost him his license. Of course he's blaming the system.

 

[aafromaa]

Ya know Melani had interest in Chad before he hooked up with Lori. She left her husband and four children for his beliefs. I don’t know the timeline of when he met those two women but he even told Melani they too were married in a past life. If you are raised in LDS, the idea of being married to a prophet must be exciting (I guess). Didn’t Chad tell Melani she should grow close to Lori? Several women were interested in Chad. (Eek!) There are rumors of other women. So bottom line, I wonder if Chad may have slept with Melani. He knows she knows a lot. He must hate her for not lying for Lori about JJ.
As for David, it is my understanding Melani and David split a long time ago. Don’t know if they ever divorced.
ETA: Chad also told Zulema they were married in a past life.

Hmmm…well this is first I’ve heard that MG was interested in CD before LVD. I’m not trying to be MG’s defender here but I like details… Can you tell me where that came from? I do believe CD pursued JR before LVD and perhaps others but had not heard anything about him & MG other than yes, he told her they were married in a previous life - but it appears he told many women that. As for her leaving her 4 kids for CD’s beliefs, I don’t recall that either. MG remained in Gilbert, AZ even after her divorce from BG in 2019- whether he had custody of the 3 minor children at the time or she did or they shared it, I do not know - but it does not appear that she left just left them. I’ve heard before that she & DW split and they may have by now - I haven’t heard anything about her since LVD’s trial ended last year. But at that time (2023) both she & DW said they were still married and still together but logistically it was odd because MG had children and a home in Gilbert and he lived in Utah I think. They both testified at trial last year that the were still married and together - though I do not recall if they were still maintaining residences in both states - nor do I know how old her children are now - only that in 2019 three of them were still minors.

Also, it was AB that CD asked to grow close to LVD not MG. LVD & MG were already friends when CD met LVD - MG says it only took a few weeks for them to become close friends.

As I said, I’m not trying to defend MG but I do think that sometimes things are said about her that might not actually be correct when it comes to her relationship and communication with CD. I also think part of that she did herself because she often said that CD said something to her but then would later clarify that it was actually LVD that said it but it came from CD. Not saying they didn’t have any communication but just don’t think it was as much as most people think.

She lived in AZ and he lived in ID and yes CD had several trips to AZ after meeting LVD but even if he was there a couple of times a month it was still a limited amount of times. LVD & MG met in Oct and LVD left for almost 2 months (Feb/Mar I think) when she left CV & JJ for 58 days - part of that time she was in Hawaii with Tylee but part of it I don’t know where she was or if MG saw her during that time. Then she came back to AZ briefly but then went to Houston where CV & JJ were - most of April or into early May I believe. Then she was back in AZ until moving to Rexburg in early Sept. My point is that even MG & LVD didn’t spend that much time together so I don’t think CD was directly telling MG very much at all - I think she was getting almost all of her knowledge of CD from LVD.

Now, she did know CD longer than she knew LVD. Although I am not certain when she met CD. I think that MG said it was July 2018 in interviews - can’t remember what she said at LVD trial but pretty sure she said 2017 at CD preliminary hearing. And CD sent text to LVD about a camp in 2019 that was the same camp he had met MG at 2 years earlier which would have been 2017. SLB said 2018 but later said whenever MG said she did which at the time I think she was saying only a few weeks before meeting LVD so fall of 2018? Media reported early on that family said LVD met CD in 2017 too and I never figured out where they got that either. I am convinced that none of these people can keep the years straight so who really knows whether MG knew CD for a few months before LVD or a couple of years. But nothing I’ve seen has suggested to me that CD & MG ever had a thing or indicated that either one of them was interested in the other - except perhaps for CD’s statement that he & MG had also been married in a previous life.

So if you can point me in the direction of where you got that she had an interest in CD or why you think she left her kids for CD’s beliefs, please let me know because I must have missed something. I’ve really thought all along that her involvement was because of her friendship with LVD not CD and if I’m wrong about that I’d like to know more.

 

[SteveS]

AFAIK none of these evil people (Lori, Alex, Chad) are known to have ever said "Let's kill people, and work on it together." In place of that, we have the light and dark ratings conversations, and the idea they were about killing people (rather than just a spiritual evaluation of sorts).

Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but in the LVD trial, imo there was a lot of hearsay and pure speculation used to create the now-accepted interpretation of what "dark" means, and her attorneys didn't offer challenges or objections or aggressive cross-examination to such testimony, and were incredibly passive when that lingo was just assumed to be insider-speak for a murder scheme. So to me it will be interesting - and very pivotal - to see if this defense offers aggressive, smart cross-examination and challenges to that narrative in this trial, and if so, if it will stand up. I think that's the biggest hurdle to get past, in order to see Chad getting what he has earned by his evil acts.

 

[indicolite22]

Media reported early on that family said LVD met CD in 2017 too and I never figured out where they got that either.

SBM. Soon after Lori's children were reported missing, there was an older couple who claimed that both Chad and Lori were present at a prepper meeting in Utah in 2017. The husband was a speaker and he stated that Tylee asked for his autograph. Lori supposedly had her own presentation there about the miracle properties of water. I find it hard to believe that Lori attended.

ETA: This was first brought up on the LDS Freedom Forum by the couple in question.

 

[indicolite22]

AFAIK none of these evil people (Lori, Alex, Chad) are known to have ever said "Let's kill people, and work on it together." In place of that, we have the light and dark ratings conversations, and the idea they were about killing people (rather than just a spiritual evaluation of sorts).

Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but in the LVD trial, imo there was a lot of hearsay and pure speculation used to create the now-accepted interpretation of what "dark" means, and her attorneys didn't offer challenges or objections or aggressive cross-examination to such testimony, and were incredibly passive when that lingo was just assumed to be insider-speak for a murder scheme. So to me it will be interesting - and very pivotal - to see if this defense offers aggressive, smart cross-examination and challenges to that narrative in this trial, and if so, if it will stand up. I think that's the biggest hurdle to get past, in order to see Chad getting what he has earned by his evil acts.

Zombie doctrine was spelled out in a document that was given to police by Ian Pawlowski's ex-wife. We'll see in what format it will be entered into evidence at Chad's trial. IP is Lori's nephew-in-law.

 

[aafromaa]

Chad probably used his "Goddess" and "married in past lives" lines on several women and none fell for it as hard as Lori did. She was uprooting her whole life in a matter of 2-3 months! She wanted or needed to be important in the church. I guess she was just bored with her life with Charles. All JMO.

I think LVD really started going off the tracks when she started reading JR books - CD’s too according to ZC as far back as 2017. She & AC were obviously a bit off already when she tried to get AC to pick a fight with JR back in 2007 and used the stun gun…well actually I think LVD has been a bit off since high school. But really started going off track in her religious beliefs when she started reading about JRs energy work and CD’s nonsense and when she actually met CD she already had him on a pedestal because his books had already fed her twisted beliefs. ZC said that even though she’d been reading JR & CD books for a couple of years, she & CV were still happy until she met CD in Oct.

Even in that weird testimony she gave on the podcast a week or two before meeting CD in late Oct she joked about her current husband and gave no indication of trouble in her marriage. And yet by the end of the year CV was a zombie who had to go.

She was already well on her way to being one of the silly women laden with sin the Bible mentions in Chapter 3 of 2nd Timothy and it was easy for CD to creep in and lead her even further down that dark path and CV knew it and couldn’t stop it.

 

[aafromaa]

I recall someone - probably MG or ZP - saying LVD referred to AC as a “first timer” early on - meaning he had not lived previous lives. He also wasn’t attending the earlier castings meetings but then in June he was suddenly an “exhausted” being and according to LVD that also mean not accountable for deeds done in this life and he was attending at least some of the casting meetings and then in July one or both of them killed CV.

Oops I meant exalted lol

 

[Ruminations]

If it's speculation, then it shouldn't be stated as fact. DW probably saved MG from even greater embarrassment. IMO she finally took her blinkers off when Lori threw her under the bus.

It's a process, to remove blinders.

If you listen to her convo with SD in January of 2020, she was already thrown hard under the bus, but not out of a mindset where having murdering friends was okay.

FWIW, I am NOT in the "arrest MG," club. But it is not speculation that she was unmoved by murder at that time. Her thought was, "Lori was stupid to tell Charles about her powers and that he was Ned." Not, "Lori was a murderer telling Alex to shoot is self-defense." MG was way indoctrinated. I can understand the anger towards her.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

It's a process, to remove blinders.

If you listen to her convo with SD in January of 2020, she was already thrown hard under the bus, but not out of a mindset where having murdering friends was okay.

FWIW, I am NOT in the "arrest MG," club. But it is not speculation that she was unmoved by murder at that time. Her thought was, "Lori was stupid to tell Charles about her powers and that he was Ned." Not, "Lori was a murderer telling Alex to shoot is self-defense." MG was way indoctrinated. I can understand the anger towards her.

MOO

At the time of the recorded conversation with SD, MG had already spilled the beans to police and the FBI. I doubt she was on Lori's side. People also say to this day that Chad was stupid to bury the children in his back yard (or even suggest "better" options). That doesn't mean that they support him or condone his actions.

 

[MTW2011]

It does say his suspension was withheld and he continued to practice under probation. So did he actually lose his license?
It also speaks of mitigating reasons. And, this was 11 years ago.

Speaking of Mark Means, I wonder if he is still seething that he was taken off the case.

I’m sure one can contact the Bar to find out if they consider that a temporary “loss” of license even when the suspension is “withheld”.

And yes, I did see that mitigating factor. I’m sure some criminal defendants would love to argue successfully that their sick family members are a mitigating factor for their criminal behavior/reason as to why they should face some less than typical consequence(s). Maybe Chad can argue that, if he’s convicted, for some of the financial related crimes. I doubt it would be as successful as it was for Wixom though JMO.

 

[aafromaa]

AFAIK none of these evil people (Lori, Alex, Chad) are known to have ever said "Let's kill people, and work on it together." In place of that, we have the light and dark ratings conversations, and the idea they were about killing people (rather than just a spiritual evaluation of sorts).

Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but in the LVD trial, imo there was a lot of hearsay and pure speculation used to create the now-accepted interpretation of what "dark" means, and her attorneys didn't offer challenges or objections or aggressive cross-examination to such testimony, and were incredibly passive when that lingo was just assumed to be insider-speak for a murder scheme. So to me it will be interesting - and very pivotal - to see if this defense offers aggressive, smart cross-examination and challenges to that narrative in this trial, and if so, if it will stand up. I think that's the biggest hurdle to get past, in order to see Chad getting what he has earned by his evil acts.

You have just nailed my chief concern in this trial. Many people believe in the power of prayer regarding casting out evil spirits but they don’t go killing the bodies to get rid of the evil spirits - in fact they don’t believe the body has to die at all to evict the evil spirit. It is a spiritual battle for most and often involves prayer and spiritual warfare but not murder as the person is expected to live on after the spirit is forced out. JP will continue to try to show that CD had no idea that LVD & AC were going to take it into the physical realm and actually kill Tylee and JJ - that he thought thy were just praying for the spirits to flee.

If JP can convince the jury there is room for reasonable doubt whether CD knew they were physically going to kill the kids, it may not be so far fetched for him to also convince them that CD didn’t know that AC buried the bodies on his property or that perhaps he found out about the deaths after the crime and was only helping them cover it up after the fact. That would still show him guilty of a crime but not the crime of murder - still conspiracy but not conspiracy to commit murder.

Thankfully, they have the racoon and fire text from CD to TD within 15 minutes of AC leaving his property the day Tylee’s remains were put there And I don’t see any way for JP to explain how CD could have shot the racoon and burned the limbs in that 15 minutes after AC left so at the very least he had to have been at the fire pit with AC when Tylee’s remains were put there.

And hopefully none of the jurors will believe that TD died of natural causes and that CD had to have been the one to take her life whether he conspired with LVD & AC to do it or not.

I don’t think there’s any way CD will NOT be convicted but I do hope they tie up the conspiracy a bit better and that they show the jury how the leap was made from castings and prayer to murder and burial.

 

[MTW2011]

The Show Cause hearing tomorrow should be interesting. I hope they’ll allow livestream of it

 

[Cedars]

I do hope they tie up the conspiracy a bit better and that they show the jury how the leap was made from castings and prayer to murder and burial.

RSBM

However, didn't that happen first with CV? (Yet another trial we're waiting on.)...

IMO, what happened with CV established the pattern.

JMO
ETA: edited to avoid bringing in CV.

 

[Cedars]

Zombie doctrine was spelled out in a document that was given to police by Ian Pawlowski's ex-wife. We'll see in what format it will be entered into evidence at Chad's trial. IP is Lori's nephew-in-law.

I don't know, that seems to me hearsay, several times removed from an actual witness.

JMO

 

[887sMtreme]

snipped for focus

. Instead, she was asphyxiated, and the bruising shows the force used, the struggle for life.

I think all of them, money was a motivator/bonus, too.

MOO

Do we have a COD for Tylee? I didn’t know that.

 

[LinasK]

You look like a drug dealer with all those phones mom. Tylee called it like she saw it. God love her.

I think once it was decided that JJ would die, Tylee was no longer useful to Lori.

Also, Tylee took on the parental role with Lori. Remember the AZ police interview when Tylee reached out and pressed her mom's hand when she was starting to escalate? It makes me tear up just thinking about it. With Chad in the picture, Lori didn't need Tylee to look out for her anymore. Only room for one "caretaker" in this scenario.


In 2020, Rexburg police detective Ron Ball said in an affidavit that Vallow Daybell's close friend Melanie Gibb described hearing her say that Tylee had become a zombie — a concept Vallow Daybell had picked up from Daybell. Gibb heard Vallow Daybell call Tylee a zombie — after Tylee had refused to babysit JJ — to which Tylee replied, "Not me, mom."

https://www.npr.org/2023/04/12/1169298124/lori-vallow-zombie-murder-trial

Justice for Tylee!

Tylee also would have been killed because she'd question where JJ was once he was killed.

 

[887sMtreme]

What I have noticed SO FAR is how early it seems LVD started preparing for her new life. Seems like Loin Fire launched early in their relationship and she was gung ho to get started. No wonder she got impatient when Chad started dragging his feet.

Imagine being eager to get it going on with…THAT.

 

[aafromaa]

RSBM

However, didn't that happen first with CV? (Yet another trial we're waiting on.)...

IMO, what happened with CV established the pattern.

JMO
ETA: edited to avoid bringing in CV.

No doubt the leap happened and no doubt it happened first with CV…but…are they doing enough to show CD is conspiring with AC & LVD regarding the kids in this trial? So far, I think they are leaving some room that allows JP to argue that CD did not know they were taking him literally and were going to kill the kids.