TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #2

[alexwood]

Camera is wonky on the courtroom view of Chad and defense table, leaving him as just a silhouette, a shadow. And that's what he is now, imo, just a shadow, a ghost in the courtroom, already dead. The State and witnesses and the victims' loved ones in the courtroom bring Tammy and JJ and Tylee alive, they are more alive now than ghost Chad.

Apparently the blinds are open today at the jury's request, accounting for the "dark" view of Chad. It is a particularly bright and sunny day in the Valley today, and cold, only about 45 degrees. Let the sun shine on the truth.

Very well said, @ReadySet!

 

[Ruminations]

I’m watching Nate and a few minutes ago he played the part where JP is asking MG when she first heard CD say TD would die young. I don’t think I’d heard before that he had said it while speaking at a conference before he ever met LVD. But JP seemed quite happy to hear that so I’m guessing he will spin it to say see CD had been talking about TD’s early death for years and nothing happened to her. But I think the Jury might see it more along the lines of CD was making these plans even before he met LVD when JP has been trying so hard to show LVD was to blame for everything.

I’d like to know your thoughts on whether it will help the state or the defense that CD was saying this before meeting LVD.

Also…I still find it unbelievable that no one ever told TD or the Daybell children what CD was saying about this. I thought that when I thought he had just told LVD & the casting group and the Gilberts but even more so if he actually said it during one of his teaching times at a conference. Maybe not so much MG because she never even met TD but some of these people at these meetings knew TD too. How do you go to one of these camp meetings and hear CD say his wife is going to die soon but it’s ok because he’ll have a 2nd life or later see CD running around with some woman at these camps and not talk to TD?

I’d like your thoughts on that as well. If you knew them both, would you have gone to TD? Would you at least have called CD aside and told him if he didn’t talk to TD then you would? Or would you have just kept that knowledge to yourself until after TD is dead and CD is accused of killing her and you can go on someone’s podcast and say you knew it all along?

I think Prior is very good at using his condescending tone to imply victory when it is a wash or worse.

One spin is that Tammy didn't die for years based on Chad's "premonition," but another spin is Chad has had murder on the brain since before meeting "Miss Vallow," and thus did not break bad when he met her. It's a wash.

<modsnip: unnecessary/name calling>

MOO

 

[alexwood]

In connection with the hearing yesterday on the Motion to Intervene and Continue the trial filed by Ratliff, this comment I read is hilarious. I am paraphrasing, "It seems that there are two additional intervenors: Mr. Jack Daniels and Mr. Jim Beam."

 

[Ruminations]

Since Ratliff seems to be DP certified, it's not unusual that JP called him. Perhaps JP is now glad that Ratliff didn't join the defense team.

Or, Prior asked him to make that motion on the, "nothing to lose," theory.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Or, Prior asked him to make that motion on the, "nothing to lose," theory.

MOO

Nothing except his credibility and reputation. This was not subtle and not quiet. People all over the world know exactly what went down, and none of it was in any way a credit to him.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Yeah. Totally agree with everything you have said here. Melanie Gibb just testified, on cross-exam by John Prior, that she and David Warwick have now been married for 3.5 years. She said that during the course of their marriage they have lived together for 10 months. She lives in Arizona; he resides in Utah. She didn't volunteer "why" that was the situation, but she did acknowledge when asked by Prior that it was "by choice."

Well, for some crimes, the only witnesses are going to be "snitches" who probably shouldn't go without punish,ent or with so little punishment, but prosecutors decide to make such a testimony deal because otherwise everyone is under-punished.

For this crime, the people who are witnesses are going to have cult-brain. And that means, they, too, quite likely, will have done things unethical or illegal because of their own flaws. But the prosecution might find it better to leave them under-punished for their testimony.

FWIW, I think Melanie Gibb made horrific mistakes, but I'm not sure she made criminal ones. There would have to be a misdeed that I don't know about for me to agree she is legally (in contrast with morally) culpable.

But my point is, criminals are not surrounded by law-abiding upstanding ethical friends, and their friends are usually the witnesses that are available.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I agree! In listening to the testimony of Audrey Barattiero (from LVD trial), she stated that Chad had asked her to be Lori's friend -- that Lori needed a friend. He said she needed a friend because he could not [take the time she apparently needed] talk to her all the time and suggested that Audrey might be able to "uplift" [Lori]. That tells me that Lori was the aggressor at the onset of their relationship -- when they initially met. Although the Loin Fires were burning for Chad, too, the "home fire" where his wife Tammy resided was the fire he felt he needed to tend. I think he was conflicted -- at first. But Lori persisted. (IMO!)

There is also an element of trying to control and reel in Lori by Chad. I think Lori was in a new kind of relationship with Chad. She sought out a man on a higher spiritual plane, believed Chad to be that man, and he heaped on the spiritual abuse and control.

MOO

 

[lightofmine99]

I’m wondering why Blake did not question Melanie about the pool party Lori had at the home the same night Charles was killed. Colby has talked about this Chad spent the night in Lori’s house!

I don't think we'll ever get to find out who attended that dang pool party...

Could someone explain why MG's emails with Wood are a problem; is Prior actually trying to get to Wood, because he is also LDS, and Prior is saying Wood is trying to protect LDS church? How is this defending Chad?

Struggle to see how Wood trying to put Chad, who has been excommunicated from the LDS church and espouses fringe beliefs, is "protecting" the mainstream LDS church. Yeah sure some of these beliefs are inspired by church teachings (or old church teachings) but most of this BS is not.

 

[wnk]

Struggle to see how Wood trying to put Chad, who has been excommunicated from the LDS church and espouses fringe beliefs, is "protecting" the mainstream LDS church. Yeah sure some of these beliefs are inspired by church teachings (or old church teachings) but most of this BS is not.

I've been listening to a very long and in-depth 2-part podcast from MormonStories about "Visions of Glory" (the book Lori was reading when she was served papers in Hawaii). The book includes all sorts of the "strange" beliefs (portals, dark/light ratings, multiple probations, near-death experiences "opening the veil," "translated beings" leading people during the End Times, "castings," "zombies," etc. It also discusses some of the other recent LDS crime connections (Ruby Franke, Jodi Hildebrand, Tim Ballard) and how this "neo-fundamentalism" may not be taught from the pulpit, but it's nonetheless gaining a stronghold within the mainstream LDS church.

 

[aafromaa]

Sick. So out respect for of their “belief” system, they stay married. But…don’t spend time together. <modsnip>

I hope you realize I’m not trying to argue but truly want to know if I’m missing something here. Can you share how you reach the conclusion that they stay married for their belief system? Love Never Fails is not the only one saying similar things so everyone please feel free to chime in…

The only testimony I recall on this was from DW during LVD trial a year ago - when they were asking him about listening to the first 45 minutes of MG’s testimony. DW said that Melanie lived (& worked) in AZ and he lived in Utah and explained that it was due to family commitments. I took this to mean that she had to stay in AZ because of her kids and am puzzled to see so many think she deserted her kids to be with DW or now think that them living apart means their marriage is over but they just haven’t divorced.

It may be - I don’t know - but it doesn’t seem their situation has changed in the year since DW testified at LVD’s trial - they’re still married and still living in separate states. I realize that is not how most of us think of the typical marriage but it’s not unheard of either.

So DW’s testimony is how I reach my conclusion that MG lives in AZ to continue to be there for her children but that their marriage to DW is still in tact. But if my conclusion is wrong, I’d like to know so for those of you who disagree, please share how you reach your conclusion.

TIA

 

[aafromaa]

I've been listening to a very long and in-depth 2-part podcast from MormonStories about "Visions of Glory" (the book Lori was reading when she was served papers in Hawaii). The book includes all sorts of the "strange" beliefs (portals, dark/light ratings, multiple probations, near-death experiences "opening the veil," "translated beings" leading people during the End Times, "castings," "zombies," etc. It also discusses some of the other recent LDS crime connections (Ruby Franke, Jodi Hildebrand, Tim Ballard) and how this "neo-fundamentalism" may not be taught from the pulpit, but it's nonetheless gaining a stronghold within the mainstream LDS church.

Did you know that while “Visions of Glory” was originally published in 2012 but they put out a 5 year anniversary edition in 2017? Yes, 2017, the same year that ZC says LVD started reading books by JR & CD & listening to podcasts. IMHO it was this book - and more specifically the release of the 2017 edition - that primed LVD & CD to meet each other and then to feed off one another’s needs to be “somebody” in their religious circles and together they got so far off track that they were able to first justify their affair and then murder.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I've been listening to a very long and in-depth 2-part podcast from MormonStories about "Visions of Glory" (the book Lori was reading when she was served papers in Hawaii). The book includes all sorts of the "strange" beliefs (portals, dark/light ratings, multiple probations, near-death experiences "opening the veil," "translated beings" leading people during the End Times, "castings," "zombies," etc. It also discusses some of the other recent LDS crime connections (Ruby Franke, Jodi Hildebrand, Tim Ballard) and how this "neo-fundamentalism" may not be taught from the pulpit, but it's nonetheless gaining a stronghold within the mainstream LDS church.

Well stated.
In my opinion, The number of LDS induced criminal behaviors is noteworthy of late.

 

[lightofmine99]

"Rob Wood is trying to protect the LDS church by prosecuting Chad for his weirdo beliefs that are totally sanctioned by the mainstream LDS church."

Yeah and I suppose Brock Belnap was doing the same when he told Warren Jeffs to go pound prison sand.

 

[indicolite22]

Or, Prior asked him to make that motion on the, "nothing to lose," theory.

MOO

I think Ratliff might have something to lose after this stunt. We still don't know if the content of the motion is as clownish as his conduct yesterday.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Well, for some crimes, the only witnesses are going to be "snitches" who probably shouldn't go without punish,ent or with so little punishment, but prosecutors decide to make such a testimony deal because otherwise everyone is under-punished.

For this crime, the people who are witnesses are going to have cult-brain. And that means, they, too, quite likely, will have done things unethical or illegal because of their own flaws. But the prosecution might find it better to leave them under-punished for their testimony.

FWIW, I think Melanie Gibb made horrific mistakes, but I'm not sure she made criminal ones. There would have to be a misdeed that I don't know about for me to agree she is legally (in contrast with morally) culpable.

But my point is, criminals are not surrounded by law-abiding upstanding ethical friends, and their friends are usually the witnesses that are available.

MOO

I wish I could agree. I get your logic but MG could have saved lives and two of them children. Children, including her own, were in the way and dispensable. Imo, I would love to see her ex-husband, the father of her children, write a book about the real MG. I would buy it.

 

[indicolite22]

Did you know that while “Visions of Glory” was originally published in 2012 but they put out a 5 year anniversary edition in 2017? Yes, 2017, the same year that ZC says LVD started reading books by JR & CD & listening to podcasts. IMHO it was this book - and more specifically the release of the 2017 edition - that primed LVD & CD to meet each other and then to feed off one another’s needs to be “somebody” in their religious circles and together they got so far off track that they were able to first justify their affair and then murder.

IMO the podcasts were also influential, starting with Julie Rowe's. Lori was a fan. IIRC, even Alex was listening to them while trucking. He offered money to his nephew (Adam's son) for reading one of the doomsday books.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I don't think we'll ever get to find out who attended that dang pool party...

Struggle to see how Wood trying to put Chad, who has been excommunicated from the LDS church and espouses fringe beliefs, is "protecting" the mainstream LDS church. Yeah sure some of these beliefs are inspired by church teachings (or old church teachings) but most of this BS is not.

Re the pool party after Charles was murdered, at their home, I know Chad was there as was MG. Colby went too just to tell his mother off but then he left. I wonder if the cops who didn’t bother to investigate were invited. (Snark)

 

[887sMtreme]

Yep. So if Lori did somehow trick him as well, he better find some evidence of that - because otherwise it's implausible as hell. He knew they were gone, so he must have believed they were somwhere. So where did he believe they were, if not in a hole in the ground?

Mentally deficient, “slow,” whatever. Is that why LV fingered him? So easy to manipulate. But who manipulated whom?

 

[887sMtreme]

Re the pool party after Charles was murdered, at their home, I know Chad was there as was MG. Colby went too just to tell his mother off but then he left. I wonder if the cops who didn’t bother to investigate were invited. (Snark)

CD was there? I thought it was just Lori, Tylee, maybe Alex, and random neighbors.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I hope you realize I’m not trying to argue but truly want to know if I’m missing something here. Can you share how you reach the conclusion that they stay married for their belief system? Love Never Fails is not the only one saying similar things so everyone please feel free to chime in…

The only testimony I recall on this was from DW during LVD trial a year ago - when they were asking him about listening to the first 45 minutes of MG’s testimony. DW said that Melanie lived (& worked) in AZ and he lived in Utah and explained that it was due to family commitments. I took this to mean that she had to stay in AZ because of her kids and am puzzled to see so many think she deserted her kids to be with DW or now think that them living apart means their marriage is over but they just haven’t divorced.

It may be - I don’t know - but it doesn’t seem their situation has changed in the year since DW testified at LVD’s trial - they’re still married and still living in separate states. I realize that is not how most of us think of the typical marriage but it’s not unheard of either.

So DW’s testimony is how I reach my conclusion that MG lives in AZ to continue to be there for her children but that their marriage to DW is still in tact. But if my conclusion is wrong, I’d like to know so for those of you who disagree, please share how you reach your conclusion.

TIA

I don’t know much about Mormon theology but I do know you can’t stay temple qualified if you get a divorce. There are rituals to follow,etc, so I hear.
My guess though is MG and DW didn’t want to be called to testify against one another regarding the night JJ died so they remained married until Chads trial is over.
I look for a divorce within months.