TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #5

[aafromaa]

Good question, I bet @aafromaa knows, she is great with historical aspects of this case.

I think he did, I think Tammy quit college and got a job to support them so he could graduate to become .... a sexton/grave digger?

Thanks nodamselindistress! I do have a spreadsheet I created before & during the LVD trial and have a lot of info on it that I’ve shared in this post.

CD graduated from BYU in 1992 shortly before Garth was born. CD & TD met at BYU the summer after her freshman year and they married in March 1990. Yes she quit college and took a job at the parks department to support them while CD finished school. When he graduated and went to work and Garth was born she became a full time homemaker but I do not know whether TD ever went back to school and finished or not. She taught computers at an elementary school for a while so it’s possible she finished her degree - I don’t know if you had to have graduated college to teach computers or be a librarian - but it is possible she completed it at some point - just isn’t something I have in my notes lol.

 

[Artis]

I absolutely, 100%, believe that Charles Vallow would still be alive today if LV had never met Chad Daybell. She wanted him, didn't want to be married to Charles Vallow anymore -- but wanted his life insurance money -- did not want Tylee or JJ any longer. CD gave her the perfect "excuse" to get rid of all of them -- including Alex Cox.

I didn't see Lori's trial but did they have any psych eval on her, as we saw with Amber Turd?

 

[mickey2942]

Cult mentality requires someone be highly suggestible and I don't think IQ or education factor into that. I know some very intelligent people who were in a cult. Ironically, it was also a spinoff from LDS, which is weird because I live in a place where there are no Mormons.

No. You completely misunderstood me. We are NOT talking about cults in general. We are specifically talking about the followers of Chad Daybell. Melanie Gibb, Zulema P, Melani, LVD.

 

[Artis]

I became physically ill when she described what happened to her pelvic area. There is something really weird there and I do not want to know what it was.

I didn't see the testimony (sounds awful) but it's possible that since he was trying to disintegrate her, the pelvic bone was especially focused on because it's the largest bone in the body. Jeez, I hate even writing that. It takes a special kind of ghoul to deface a dead body.

 

[aafromaa]

What is the criteria for whether or not a witness is subject to that rule?

Those considered victims - including certain family members of those who were murdered (therefore the Daybell children can watch because their mother was murdered) - are exempt from the rule not to watch the trial. Also I think I understood the judge to say that experts were exempt from that rule too - though I never actually did understand the reason for that.

 

[Artis]

I think Alex did, but I think he did it at Chad's behest. I think the two of them took part in the macabre' burning/hacking stuff. I just feel as though Alex was so inundated in the cult-think that he truly believed he was doing what was right.

I also think they off'd Alex. That's just way too convenient by far. But, no evidence.

Chad is evil. Chad is the base of all of it. His poorly written books and disgusting loin fire fantasies are a sidenote. The man is pure evil. Plus, he might be the ugliest man I've ever seen.

How could anyone have given Alex blood clots? I agree it seems all to convenient that he died.

 

[Artis]

Exclusive 3D model offers unique view of Daybell crime scene


Applying evidence to 3D model of Chad Daybell's property

The last few days of testimony have shown still photos of CD’s property. Our very talented @vislaw has made 3D models of these areas in conjunction with the Cold Podcast team.

These are older articles with imbedded videos, but they are timely considering the recent testimonies. It’s interesting to view the house and “pasture” with dimension. If you haven’t seen these, they are worth watching.

Very impressive. It reminds me LiDAR, a type of laser radar which has been used in archaeological discoveries. @vislaw is probably familiar with it and that combined with what he's doing sounds like it could revolutionize locating victims and evidence.

 

[aafromaa]

Those of us who have followed this case from the early days when LE first announced that Tylee & JJ were missing and LVD was not cooperating know so much more now than we knew back then. Most of us knew from the very first time we heard of Tylee & JJ that they were no longer alive - long before LVD’s arrest & extradition and long before the remains were discovered & CD was arrested - we just knew. Every detail that came out confirmed our suspicions and we knew that LVD & her new husband were responsible even before we knew any details or knew about AC or CV or TD or BB or Joe Ryan. We’ve learned a lot about the doomsday prophet and doomsday mom in the past several years and about their family and friends and Julie Rowe and visions of glory and zombies and dark ratings and portals and multiple probations.

We know so much more than we did in the beginning. But there is still so much we don’t know….

1) Who killed JR? Natural causes? AC? LVD?
2) Who killed CV? AC? Or did LVD fire at least one of those shots?
3) Who killed Tylee? AC? LVD? CD?
4) Where was Tylee killed? AC’s apt? LVD’s apt? CD’s property? On the way home from Yellowstone?
5) How was Tylee killed?
5) Who did all those despicable things to Tylee’s body? AC? CD? Combination of AC & CD?
6) Who killed JJ? AC? LVD?
7) Where was JJ killed? AC’s apt? LVD’s apt?
8 Who buried JJ? AC? CD? Combination of AC & CD?
9) Who killed TD? AC? CD? Combination of AC & CD?
10) What really happened to AC? Murder? Suicide? Natural causes?

We know that all three - AC & CD & LVD are equally responsible under conspiracy laws and if I was on the jury would have no problem voting guilty, but we can still only speculate on the list above. I’m disappointed that we don’t know definite answers to these questions and probably never will.

Do you think the jury will have any problem voting guilty without knowing the answers definitively? Do you think they will be able to give him the death penalty without those answers? Do you think they should?

 

[mickey2942]

Those of us who have followed this case from the early days when LE first announced that Tylee & JJ were missing and LVD was not cooperating know so much more now than we knew back then. Most of us knew from the very first time we heard of Tylee & JJ that they were no longer alive - long before LVD’s arrest & extradition and long before the remains were discovered & CD was arrested - we just knew. Every detail that came out confirmed our suspicions and we knew that LVD & her new husband were responsible even before we knew any details or knew about AC or CV or TD or BB or Joe Ryan. We’ve learned a lot about the doomsday prophet and doomsday mom in the past several years and about their family and friends and Julie Rowe and visions of glory and zombies and dark ratings and portals and multiple probations.

We know so much more than we did in the beginning. But there is still so much we don’t know….

1) Who killed JR? Natural causes? AC? LVD?
2) Who killed CV? AC? Or did LVD fire at least one of those shots?
3) Who killed Tylee? AC? LVD? CD?
4) Where was Tylee killed? AC’s apt? LVD’s apt? CD’s property? On the way home from Yellowstone?
5) How was Tylee killed?
5) Who did all those despicable things to Tylee’s body? AC? CD? Combination of AC & CD?
6) Who killed JJ? AC? LVD?
7) Where was JJ killed? AC’s apt? LVD’s apt?
8 Who buried JJ? AC? CD? Combination of AC & CD?
9) Who killed TD? AC? CD? Combination of AC & CD?
10) What really happened to AC? Murder? Suicide? Natural causes?

We know that all three - AC & CD & LVD are equally responsible under conspiracy laws and if I was on the jury would have no problem voting guilty, but we can still only speculate on the list above. I’m disappointed that we don’t know definite answers to these questions and probably never will.

Do you think the jury will have any problem voting guilty without knowing the answers definitively? Do you think they will be able to give him the death penalty without those answers? Do you think they should?

I was surprised that LVD was found guilty of conspiracy to murder Tammy Daybell. There was far less evidence that LVD was involved with Tammy's death. Of course, she has filed an appeal on her conviction. But INMO, she isn't going to go anywhere but a jail cell for decades.

That being said, I believe that there is more than enough evidence to convict CD of the same charges as LVD. Including insurance fraud. We have yet to hear from the primary health insurance company. As for the DP? I don't care, he can get LWOP. As long as he never gets out.

 

[ReadySet]

Do you know the poem, "Still I Rise" by Maya Angelou?
I thought of that poem all day today, as Tylee was being discussed. The poem is on the face of it about Black Slaves, but I think many can relate to it, and I don't know if Tylee ever read it, but I think she would like it. I think it could be an anthem for her.

When they were talking about all the ways they killed Tylee and tried to disappear every inch of her, I thought, nope, you failed. You did not kill her soul, her spirit, her energy, her essence. And she was more alive in that courtroom today than Chad, who sat at the table, already dead.

You rise, Tylee. You rise.

Still I Rise​

BY MAYA ANGELOU
You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.

Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
’Cause I walk like I've got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.

Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise.

Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops,
Weakened by my soulful cries?

Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don't you take it awful hard
’Cause I laugh like I've got gold mines
Diggin’ in my own backyard.

You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I’ll rise.

Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I've got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?

Out of the huts of history’s shame
I rise
Up from a past that’s rooted in pain
I rise
I'm a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.

Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that’s wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise.

 

[KonaHonu]

I've been reading the daily updates from Nate/IAN but have not listened to every minute.

I am completely convinced that Alex killed Charles, Tylee, JJ, and Tammy. I think each murder was most likely planned but I find the evidence for that weak. That's not to say I expect Chad to be acquitted and I am good with that.

But I would love to know what really happened. Today we learned that Tylee was likely stabbed in the pelvis and maybe with an icepick. Who would do that? An icepick seems like an unlikely murder weapon, especially since there was apparently only one wound.

I can totally see Tylee being killed because she knew the true story about Charles. There is just so much that makes no sense here.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I do find it unbelievable that both Tammy and Alex died of NATURAL pulmonary edema. Apparently there are some drugs that can cause it and possibly some natural substances.

 

[KonaHonu]

Those of us who have followed this case from the early days when LE first announced that Tylee & JJ were missing and LVD was not cooperating know so much more now than we knew back then. Most of us knew from the very first time we heard of Tylee & JJ that they were no longer alive - long before LVD’s arrest & extradition and long before the remains were discovered & CD was arrested - we just knew. Every detail that came out confirmed our suspicions and we knew that LVD & her new husband were responsible even before we knew any details or knew about AC or CV or TD or BB or Joe Ryan. We’ve learned a lot about the doomsday prophet and doomsday mom in the past several years and about their family and friends and Julie Rowe and visions of glory and zombies and dark ratings and portals and multiple probations.

We know so much more than we did in the beginning. But there is still so much we don’t know….

1) Who killed JR? Natural causes? AC? LVD?
2) Who killed CV? AC? Or did LVD fire at least one of those shots?
3) Who killed Tylee? AC? LVD? CD?
4) Where was Tylee killed? AC’s apt? LVD’s apt? CD’s property? On the way home from Yellowstone?
5) How was Tylee killed?
5) Who did all those despicable things to Tylee’s body? AC? CD? Combination of AC & CD?
6) Who killed JJ? AC? LVD?
7) Where was JJ killed? AC’s apt? LVD’s apt?
8 Who buried JJ? AC? CD? Combination of AC & CD?
9) Who killed TD? AC? CD? Combination of AC & CD?
10) What really happened to AC? Murder? Suicide? Natural causes?

We know that all three - AC & CD & LVD are equally responsible under conspiracy laws and if I was on the jury would have no problem voting guilty, but we can still only speculate on the list above. I’m disappointed that we don’t know definite answers to these questions and probably never will.

Do you think the jury will have any problem voting guilty without knowing the answers definitively? Do you think they will be able to give him the death penalty without those answers? Do you think they should?

Going to address your points in my personal opinion:

1) JR is hard to form an opinion. Lori benefited but no indication she was looking to get away from Charles at the time. I think she had been married to Charles not to get Ryan's SS at the time of Ryan's death. If money were the goal he would have died earlier.

2) I think AC killed Charles but it was planned and Lori took part in the plan.

3) I think AC killed Tylee. The only why I can think of is that she was a loose end who knew what really happened to Charles.

4) Not sure where Tylee was killed. If she was stabbed it seems like there would have been a lot of blood which we have not heard about. I suspect she was strangled and the wounds we are hearing about are post mortem.

5) Both 5s mostly answered in 4. I think attributable to AC and CD being inexperienced at disposing of bodies

6) JJ killed by AC. No conclusion on details or whether it was planned.

7) JJ killed in AC's apartment

8) AC buried JJ, just my opinion with no evidence.

9) AC killed TD, just my opinion with no evidence. I don't think Chad has the gonads to actually kill anyone.

10) AC's death was very convenient. I think he was murdered in the same way as Tammy. But this goes against the medical evidence and the likely murderers were thousands of mile away so very little confidence in this.

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, May 14th:
*Trial continues (Day 23) (@ 8:30am MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) & Tamara “Tammy” Michelle Douglas Daybell (49) (died on Oct. 19, 2019 at her residence in Salem, ID; dob 5/4/70). – *Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 55) arrested (6/9/20) & indicted (5/25/21) & charged (5/26/21) & arraigned (6/9/21) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4 (for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy, 49, died 10/19/19): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6 (for Tammy): 1st degree murder. Count 8 & 9: Insurance Fraud (Two counts of insurance fraud related to 2 different life insurance policies he had on Tammy). Plead not guilty. No bond. DA will seek DP. (Judge denied removing DP 3/14/24). Fremont County
Trial began on 4/1/24 with final jury selection & ended on 4/8/24. Jurors: 12 jurors & 6 alternates. [10 men & 8 women]. 5/2/24: Juror dismissed due to illness. Now: 12 jurors & 5 alternates.
Jury will be sequestered during deliberations in the guilt phase thru the penalty phase.
Trial began on 4/10/24. (approx. 8 weeks) Court hours are 8:30am to 3pm Monday-Friday. Trial is being held in Ada County.
Judge Steven W. Boyce presiding. Prosecutors: Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake, Madison County Prosecuting Attorney Rob Wood, Special Attorney General Prosecutor Ingrid Batey & Fremont County Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Rocky Wixom & defense attorney John Prior.
Court info from 6/10/20 thru 3/29/24 & Jury Selection Days 1-6 (4/1-4/6/24) & thru 4/9/24 & Trial Days 1-21 (4/10-5/10/24) reference post #8 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...vallow-tylee-ryan-and-tammy-daybell-5.712515/
5/13/24 Monday, Trial Day 22: *State witnesses: FBI Tactical Specialist Nicole Heideman back on stand. Dr. Angl Christensen [FBI Forensics Anthropologist; examination of Tylee’s bones]. Ashlynn Rynd, Tylee's best friend in high school. David Sincerbeaux, Idaho State Police; analytical chemist, fire debris analysi. Rexburg Police Detective Chuck Kunsaitis recalled to stand. Douglas Halepaska, FBI Forensics Examiner [firearms & tool marks div]. FBI CAST Agent Nick Ballance recalled.
For more info on direct see post #25 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...-tylee-ryan-and-tammy-daybell-5.712515/page-2
Trial continues on Tuesday, 5/14/24.

 

[Ruminations]

What is the Audrey problem? Was Audrey Lori's friend who met up with her in Hawaii? Sorry, it's been a long time since saw all that and have forgotten some of the names.

Sorry, that wasn't clear. Audrey was a friend of some sort of Chad's. He inserted her into the Arizona crowd to keep Lori company while Tammy was still alive. She became involved in castings, and was likely more sucked in and excited about her powers and being jetted around to HI, etc. than she let on, having decided on retrospect she was in a very bad crowd. She enjoyed a perfect "trust level" assigned by Chad.

The Audrey problem was that Audrey testified at Lori's trial that Lori stated she had watched a murder in the past and threatened to kill her, but Audrey had not said the same in her grand jury testimony.

Lori's attorneys did not offer much of a defense or cross examine many witnesses, but they went hard on Audrey. They explicitly accused her of just making that up for Lori's trial. They said she was not credible because she had sworn or affirmed to give the whole truth at the GJ testimony.

I don't know how much all that mattered to Lori's jury, because there was so much evidence about the crimes she was accused of, and determining the truth of Audrey's testimony may not have even been of interest to them since it was not an element of any crime. The only relevance was that she testified that Lori was not averse to murder and Lori could rattle off some murder kit items. It wasn't essential to conviction at all.

Clearly, either Audrey didn't tell "the whole truth" at GJ, or embellished at Lori's trial. Personally, I don't think the law would be nearly as hard on her if it were that she didn't tell all with the GJ, but told the truth at Lori's trial. (And this is what I believe to be the case.) It would be believable that she couldn't face up to all her memories, or had been terrified into lying in the past and became more realistic and less afraid with time.

If Garth left things out in his GJ testimony, he could have a hard time on the stand, too, with his credibility questioned. However, it is awkward for the defense being the defense claimed him as a defense witness.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

What trauma are you talking about - being raised Mormons?

No.

I'm talking about the trauma of being raised in Chad's very controlling family.

The children grew up in a family that believed in ghosts, and that only their father could protect them from them. They were not allowed to express anger. They are expected to fear outsiders. They moved from Utah to Idaho because they believed that Utah would be swallowed up in an earthquake and Rexburg would be Zion---and they believed that their father and Julie Rowe had "seen" this. Emma and Seth voiced the audio versions of Julie Rowe and Chad's books, thinking them non-fiction.

This is hardly a typical church-going LDS family. It is traumatic because the family gets more and more isolated and internally loyal as outsiders can't be told all the extreme family beliefs---they will get too many weird stares or lose temple recommends if they go too public. The children HAD to become good at keeping secrets.

Then, it turns out the secrets hide murder and infidelity/polygamy.

That is the trauma.

MOO

 

[alexwood]

I have a suspicion that Tylee was a victim of Munchousen by Proxy. The reason I say this, is that she was always ill, with pancreatitis (?), people have mentioned this. She had been pulled out of school, and I may be guessing here, but that was to support LVD pursuing disability for Tylee, so she would not "age out" of Joe Ryan's Social Security at age 18.

Thus, continuing to receive Social Security under him, as a disabled adult "child'. Unemployable.
Although, Tylee did have a job, apparently.

That way, LVD would continue to receive her money.

Yeah. At one point, Tylee worked for her uncle -- the husband of Summer Shiflett (LV's sister).

 

[Love Never Fails]

So many thousands of hospice workers, morticians, grave-diggers, medical examiners, and others who deal with death all the time — yet so few sadistic serial killers among them. It’s something else.

Isn’t it rather weird, for lack of a better word, that Chad got a degree in Communications and instead became a grave digger? Did he talk to the dead? I don’t know. But he sure isn’t a communicator in the real world.

 

[alexwood]

I think that both Tylee and JJ were drugged before they were murdered. It would have made the killing more manageable. Drugged with an over-the-counter sleep aid, into a milkshake or a McFlurry.

 

[indicolite22]

Sorry, that wasn't clear. Audrey was a friend of some sort of Chad's. He inserted her into the Arizona crowd to keep Lori company while Tammy was still alive. She became involved in castings, and was likely more sucked in and excited about her powers and being jetted around to HI, etc. than she let on, having decided on retrospect she was in a very bad crowd. She enjoyed a perfect "trust level" assigned by Chad.

The Audrey problem was that Audrey testified at Lori's trial that Lori stated she had watched a murder in the past and threatened to kill her, but Audrey had not said the same in her grand jury testimony.

Lori's attorneys did not offer much of a defense or cross examine many witnesses, but they went hard on Audrey. They explicitly accused her of just making that up for Lori's trial. They said she was not credible because she had sworn or affirmed to give the whole truth at the GJ testimony.

I don't know how much all that mattered to Lori's jury, because there was so much evidence about the crimes she was accused of, and determining the truth of Audrey's testimony may not have even been of interest to them since it was not an element of any crime. The only relevance was that she testified that Lori was not averse to murder and Lori could rattle off some murder kit items. It wasn't essential to conviction at all.

Clearly, either Audrey didn't tell "the whole truth" at GJ, or embellished at Lori's trial. Personally, I don't think the law would be nearly as hard on her if it were that she didn't tell all with the GJ, but told the truth at Lori's trial. (And this is what I believe to be the case.) It would be believable that she couldn't face up to all her memories, or had been terrified into lying in the past and became more realistic and less afraid with time.

If Garth left things out in his GJ testimony, he could have a hard time on the stand, too, with his credibility questioned. However, it is awkward for the defense being the defense claimed him as a defense witness.

MOO

IIRC, Audrey B wasn't part of the casting group. Those were all women from Arizona plus Sarena, who moved to Arizona later. AB lived in another state. She knew Chad from PAP and was friends with another PAP speaker and his wife. According to him, AB spoke to Chad on a weekly basis. It's likely tha she could tell a lot about his teachings (but ZP already did). According to Chad, AB was Jesus' wife in a past life.

As far as AB's testimony at Lori's trial, Lori Hellis was in the courtroom on that day and saw her sobbing uncontrollably while leaving. She might well have been telling the thruh, which JP would spin to portray Lori as bloodthirsty and Chad an innocent lamb.

When it comes to Garth, most people who know him believe that he would tell the truth in court. Leaving things out technically isn't lying.

 

[BreadnLumpit]

Isn’t it rather weird, for lack of a better word, that Chad got a degree in Communications and instead became a grave digger? Did he talk to the dead? I don’t know. But he sure isn’t a communicator in the real world.

I don't know about in the US, but here in the UK grave digging is pretty well paid - a freelance digger will earn around £600 (approx $750) per grave and the use of backhoes would allow for plenty of spare time for writing incredibly bad sex scenes.