TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #5

[iamshadow21]

I suspect I'm in a small minority, but the clerical error didn't really alarm me, because I'm about seeing CD be suitably rewarded for what He has done. And the charges are so numerous that having one less doesn't feel like it would even make a ripple of a difference, ultimately. Just my 2c.

I do see how it would hurt the heart of the Woodcocks, however, and can't imagine the grief they have endured. Grandkids own your heart, and you sure want to do right for them.

But when it comes down to practical terms, how many times can he be executed? It sure feels like he'll end up on death row with the state having an inability to dispense it for each and all of the many sentences he'll get. Or if he gets LWOP like Lori (a possibility I don't expect), how many lifetimes does he have to serve consecutive sentences? Isn't Lori working on her 1st of 3?

Oh, I agree, those other charges, if he is found guilty of them, can put him away forever. When it became clear that the other charges were not in jeopardy, I calmed down a lot.

But it does give some loved ones a measure of peace to know it has been officially declared in a court of law that a person has been found responsible. I want that for Kay and Larry and the other family and friends of JJ.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

This is from yesterday May 15th

https://twitter.com/x/status/1790781566630625464

View attachment 504131

Cathy's so right!

I believe Lori was angry at Alex for not knowing by his own timelines to do his projects. I bet she was extra peeved when the contractor failed to mention tomorrow's excavation task.

Before this trial, and since his autopsy came out, I had had the rare belief that Alex's death was indeed natural causes. In this trial, the prosecution is hinting otherwise. It has made me change my mind.

You can't induce bilateral pulmonary embolisms; the things you can do to help bring them on can't time them. They do kill, and the death is sudden. Pink foam is consistent. It is possible to have one coincidentally around the time you get a blessing from a patriarch-wanna-be that sounds a bit like, "Thank you and buh-bye."

But I suppose it's possible to have a sudden pulmonary embolism while busy ending your life which you decided to do near hearing "Thank you and buh-bye!" I'm beginning to think that is what happened. Alex did tell Zulema to shoot him in the face if he were a zombie. It might be, he took to heart his exaltation, and decided earthly consequences were not his thing, especially when he had no spiritual consequences to face. Besides, Lori and Chad were being such AH leaving him in Arizona while they were on a tropical island. And besides that, if it's all a big lie and you die and turn to dust, he wouldn't miss much but more jail for the foreseeable future.

I don't think Alex was murdered by Lori and Chad. They seemed rather perturbed their contractor was not around. I think it's more likely he ended his life, as he discussed with Zulema, as an f-u to Chad and Lori, and coincidentally while having a pulmonary embolism.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I suspect I'm in a small minority, but the clerical error didn't really alarm me, because I'm about seeing CD be suitably rewarded for what He has done. And the charges are so numerous that having one less doesn't feel like it would even make a ripple of a difference, ultimately. Just my 2c.

I do see how it would hurt the heart of the Woodcocks, however, and can't imagine the grief they have endured. Grandkids own your heart, and you sure want to do right for them.

But when it comes down to practical terms, how many times can he be executed? It sure feels like he'll end up on death row with the state having an inability to dispense it for each and all of the many sentences he'll get. Or if he gets LWOP like Lori (a possibility I don't expect), how many lifetimes does he have to serve consecutive sentences? Isn't Lori working on her 1st of 3?

Yeah- it wouldn't change things for you or Chad.

But it would change things for the living victims. That's what the angst and heartbreak was about.

MOO

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Air bubbles can cause a pulmonary embolism yes? So when Alex went to shop in Mexico before his death according to Zeluma could he have purchased a needle a deliberately shot air into his vein??????????

 

[iamshadow21]

Air bubbles can cause a pulmonary embolism yes? So when Alex went to shop in Mexico before his death according to Zeluma could he have purchased a needle a deliberately shot air into his vein??????????

I am not a doctor, but I do know that an embolism caused by air and an embolism caused by blood clots are different, and would have been noted by a pathologist. I believe Alex had the latter.

New details released on what happened the day Alex Cox died - East Idaho News

GILBERT, Arizona — Authorities released new information Monday regarding the investigation into the death of Lori Vallow Daybell’s brother, Alex Cox. The 59 pages of heavily redacted reports provide more insight about Cox, his death and what those close to him had to say about his life...

www.eastidahonews.com

Pulmonary embolism - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

Both air and clots can cause pulmonary embolism, it's true, but an air embolism would have been noted by the pathologist. Instead, they* found clots in both lungs.


MOO

* EDIT: Changing pronoun to gender neutral because the ME's first name is Lesley, which is given to children of both binary sexes, and I have no idea of their gender identity.

 

[vislaw]

Imo it won't. But it will give Prior fodder for appeals which will last for years but be unsuccessful. MOO.

This ruling is virtually impossible to overturn. Yes, it gives the defense one more appellate count but will not in any way affect the timing of appellate decisions. Trust me, this is now a nothing burger issue. I see no credible claim of error in the case. The judge did a masterful job of running a fair trial.

 

[BreadnLumpit]

I am not a doctor, but I do know that an embolism caused by air and an embolism caused by blood clots are different, and would have been noted by a pathologist. I believe Alex had the latter.

New details released on what happened the day Alex Cox died - East Idaho News

GILBERT, Arizona — Authorities released new information Monday regarding the investigation into the death of Lori Vallow Daybell’s brother, Alex Cox. The 59 pages of heavily redacted reports provide more insight about Cox, his death and what those close to him had to say about his life...

www.eastidahonews.com

Pulmonary embolism - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

Both air and clots can cause pulmonary embolism, it's true, but an air embolism would have been noted by the pathologist. Instead, they* found clots in both lungs.


MOO

* EDIT: Changing pronoun to gender neutral because the ME's first name is Lesley, which is given to children of both binary sexes, and I have no idea of their gender identity.

It may be different Stateside but here gender can be generally determined by the spelling of some names: Leslie (male version) and Lesley (female version).

Another example for a different homophonic name would be Francis (male) and Frances (female).

I'm a name geek

 

[iamshadow21]

It may be different Stateside but here gender can be generally determined by the spelling of some names: Leslie (male version) and Lesley (female version).

Another example for a different homophonic name would be Francis (male) and Frances (female).

I'm a name geek

Google hits suggest to me Lesley trends more female, but not exclusively, and Leslie seems to be an equal split. So I think it's down to personal preference, which can have regional trends, or can be a family naming whim.

I grew up with a male Shannon for a friend, though that name can go either way and often trends female in places, too. I just wanted to cover my bases. Neutral is better than misgendering someone, I believe.

MOO

 

[lightofmine99]

Pondering the police car interaction between Chad and Emma. It opens with the following exchange (transcribed by me):

EMMA: Hi, dad. They said I could come talk with you, and I didn't want you to be alone. I love you so much.
CHAD: I love you. I'm glad you came over.
EMMA: I thought they had taken you downtown already...
CHAD: No, I got about to the Fremont County line.

The BBM statement implies that Chad was trying to flee (which we already know to be true based on his driving). But I find it interesting he would say that to Emma. I'm assuming by "taken you downtown" she means going to the police station, as that is a very old euphemism for getting arrested. But the way he says it almost sounds like she knew he would try to flee. Chad also apparently doesn't understand that jumping counties doesn't impede LEO like it used to, or in the movies. Not sure where I am going with this, I just find it odd. MOO.

 

[indicolite22]

Pondering the police car interaction between Chad and Emma. It opens with the following exchange (transcribed by me):

The BBM statement implies that Chad was trying to flee (which we already know to be true based on his driving). But I find it interesting he would say that to Emma. I'm assuming by "taken you downtown" she means going to the police station, as that is a very old euphemism for getting arrested. But the way he says it almost sounds like she knew he would try to flee. Chad also apparently doesn't understand that jumping counties doesn't impede LEO like it used to, or in the movies. Not sure where I am going with this, I just find it odd. MOO.

I wonder what Chad told Emma in the hour he spent at her house that morning (after the police descended on his property). She was not surprised at his arrest. In the video he tells her to cooperate as much as she wants to. Did JP tell Chad's children not to talk to police?

 

[BreadnLumpit]

Neutral is better than misgendering someone, I believe.

MOO

Fair point.

 

[aafromaa]

I wonder what Chad told Emma in the hour he spent at her house that morning (after the police descended on his property). She was not surprised at his arrest. In the video he tells her to cooperate as much as she wants to. Did JP tell Chad's children not to talk to police?

I wonder what was discussed during that time too. I wonder something else too…

Do you recall ED’s statements in the 48 Hours interview about how CD was dazed and confused and didn’t know why he was being arrested and she had to tell him that it was because they found human remains on the property?

I saw nothing even remotely along those lines in the police car video. So when was that supposed to have happened? He seemed pretty aware of what was going on when he was headed to the county line - whether that was to flee or head to his attorney’s office as JP suggests. He seemed pretty aware of what was going on when he said he wasn’t coming back.

I know that some are looking forward to JP calling some of the Daybell siblings to the stand so that the state can cross examine and I wish I thought it would shed any light on anything but the state will be limited on what they can ask about by the scope of JP’s direct and he will likely limit that to what they have to say about TD’s health or perhaps what they recall as a happy home life with CD & TD. Unfortunately, we won’t get to hear anything about what CD said that day or why the kids refused to talk to LE. JP will object to any questions outside the scope of his direct and rightfully so.

I believe the state wants to ask those questions as much as we want to hear the answers. But I also believe that they did not call any of the kids in their case in chief because they didn’t need to do so to prove their case and wanted to spare the kids having anything to do with their father’s conviction and possible death sentence.

I’m still not sure that JP will actually call the 3 or 4 he mentioned in his opening - perhaps ED to speak to TD’s health and GD to speak to finding TD deceased that night but I think he won’t keep either on the stand for long.

And our curiosity for all things Daybell children will have to wait for some media interview down the road or one of them to write a book or something. I still feel bad for all of them but I so wish at least one of them would step up and acknowledge CD’s involvement in TD’s death and the deaths of Tylee & JJ as well.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I'm so pleased! We've known this judge is sharp and fair. His reasoning was very cogent and what I expected from a fair jurist.

He is a good judge and ready to step up at any time to keep both sides on their toes.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I wonder what was discussed during that time too. I wonder something else too…

Do you recall ED’s statements in the 48 Hours interview about how CD was dazed and confused and didn’t know why he was being arrested and she had to tell him that it was because they found human remains on the property?

I saw nothing even remotely along those lines in the police car video. So when was that supposed to have happened? He seemed pretty aware of what was going on when he was headed to the county line - whether that was to flee or head to his attorney’s office as JP suggests. He seemed pretty aware of what was going on when he said he wasn’t coming back.

I know that some are looking forward to JP calling some of the Daybell siblings to the stand so that the state can cross examine and I wish I thought it would shed any light on anything but the state will be limited on what they can ask about by the scope of JP’s direct and he will likely limit that to what they have to say about TD’s health or perhaps what they recall as a happy home life with CD & TD. Unfortunately, we won’t get to hear anything about what CD said that day or why the kids refused to talk to LE. JP will object to any questions outside the scope of his direct and rightfully so.

I believe the state wants to ask those questions as much as we want to hear the answers. But I also believe that they did not call any of the kids in their case in chief because they didn’t need to do so to prove their case and wanted to spare the kids having anything to do with their father’s conviction and possible death sentence.

I’m still not sure that JP will actually call the 3 or 4 he mentioned in his opening - perhaps ED to speak to TD’s health and GD to speak to finding TD deceased that night but I think he won’t keep either on the stand for long.

And our curiosity for all things Daybell children will have to wait for some media interview down the road or one of them to write a book or something. I still feel bad for all of them but I so wish at least one of them would step up and acknowledge CD’s involvement in TD’s death and the deaths of Tylee & JJ as well.

I don’t think JP would risk putting the Daybells up to testify unless it’s merely to say dad and mom loved each other and he’s a good dad. Blah blah blah.
And I can just imagine Lindsey Blake very politely and firmly asking, in the way she does, “So is having an affair with another woman make him a good husband?”
“Does running around the country pretending to be a prophet while your mother is the bread winner and she is taking care of your needs make him a good dad?”
“Were JJ and Tylee found dead in Chad’s back yard?”

 

[Love Never Fails]

I will reiterate my view that JP is a great defense attorney. Do I like his style? No. Definitely not.
But here is a guy trying to defend his client against the death penalty, ALL BY HIMSELF. He has shown that he is generally on top of things; disrupts a bit of the prosection's case; and, can put forth legal arguments on the spot.

I think Chad is guilty as he**. He's an absolutely terrible human being. But Prior is doing his job. I think he has no chance of winning, but he's giving it his all. I can't imagine being in his position.

I'm stressing about the prosecution and whether they can win. But they have an entire team working on this. I hope they come through in the end and I'm pretty sure they will. (although that was a disconcerting hiccup today!)

I agree about Prior.
I also believe there are a couple excellent attorneys on the prosecution. Blake especially.
I’m sure they all want this to be over.
Chad will be found guilty of all charges.

 

[lightofmine99]

One of Prior's experts (medical examiner I think) he plans to call is someone that has worked with a prosecution expert in the past, and has already stated in open court that she and Prior's expert have more or less the same findings.

So how does that work out? MOO.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I just watched Nate's Courtroom Insider for the last day's events, and I feel reassured about Larry and Kay. He described Larry being upset at first, but then later they were calm and sure it was going to be okay, and then afterwards, when the judge ruled against dismissal, they were in good spirits as they were rushing away to fly out for a family event. So they've weathered it better than I feared they might. Certainly better than I would have, under the circumstances.

MOO

I think they weathered it better than I did.
I just couldn’t imagine how four attorneys and four paralegals didn’t catch this. I hope it never has to be brought up in front of the jury. I trust Judge Boyce will do what is correct and we will see what happens.
We can all agree Chad needs to be locked away from humanity.

 

[indicolite22]

In yesterday's Courtroom Insider Nate Eaton said that in the negotiations about a possible plea agreement Chad would not budge on Tammy. He refused to plead guilty to killing her. IMO, he chose going to trial to try to save face with his children.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Cathy's so right!

I believe Lori was angry at Alex for not knowing by his own timelines to do his projects. I bet she was extra peeved when the contractor failed to mention tomorrow's excavation task.

Before this trial, and since his autopsy came out, I had had the rare belief that Alex's death was indeed natural causes. In this trial, the prosecution is hinting otherwise. It has made me change my mind.

You can't induce bilateral pulmonary embolisms; the things you can do to help bring them on can't time them. They do kill, and the death is sudden. Pink foam is consistent. It is possible to have one coincidentally around the time you get a blessing from a patriarch-wanna-be that sounds a bit like, "Thank you and buh-bye."

But I suppose it's possible to have a sudden pulmonary embolism while busy ending your life which you decided to do near hearing "Thank you and buh-bye!" I'm beginning to think that is what happened. Alex did tell Zulema to shoot him in the face if he were a zombie. It might be, he took to heart his exaltation, and decided earthly consequences were not his thing, especially when he had no spiritual consequences to face. Besides, Lori and Chad were being such AH leaving him in Arizona while they were on a tropical island. And besides that, if it's all a big lie and you die and turn to dust, he wouldn't miss much but more jail for the foreseeable future.

I don't think Alex was murdered by Lori and Chad. They seemed rather perturbed their contractor was not around. I think it's more likely he ended his life, as he discussed with Zulema, as an f-u to Chad and Lori, and coincidentally while having a pulmonary embolism.

MOO

Agree! Always believed that.

 

[mickey2942]

You know your life is dull when you wonder what to do all day, when there is no trial to watch.