TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #5

[indicolite22]

Hidden True Crime is going live with discussion about recent jail call recordings

There is some promise of interesting takes on the coded conversation between incarcerated Lori and soon to incarcerated Chad, about their deceased "contractor" Alex, and possibly about the building project on Chad's property.

MOO

Dr Matthias' suggests that the "five problems" Lori mentions to Chad in the June 8 jail phone call were the four murders (Charles, Tylee, JJ, and Tammy) and one attempted murder (BB). IMO they could have been referring to the five related investigations. Alternatively, they needed to eliminate five more people who they blamed for the investigations. Luckily their contractor (Alex) was no longer available to do the job.

 

[Artis]

I believe that would be one of the prosecutors - Ron Wood.

Thank you. I don't use initials because I can't keep them all straight and there's an RW in the Veronica Butler & Jilian Kelley murder case.

 

[Artis]

Dr Matthias' suggests that the "five problems" Lori mentions to Chad in the June 8 jail phone call were the four murders (Charles, Tylee, JJ, and Tammy) and one attempted murder (BB). IMO they could have been referring to the five related investigations. Alternatively, they needed to eliminate five more people who they blamed for the investigations. Luckily their contractor (Alex) was no longer available to do the job.

I'm listening to him talking about Audrey, right now. He believed her and so do I. That side of Lori hasn't been talked about much but it makes me think of Lori being so furious when Alex missed his chance to shoot Tammy.

 

[Artis]

Was it just Alex's fingerprints found on the trash bag with JJ? Was there also a hair from Lori?

 

[indicolite22]

Since Chad is indigent, I wonder who is paying for the defense witnesses' expenses? Lori Hellis speculates that MG likely won't be called by JP because of the associated cost. LH expects an expert to dispute CAST data analysis.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I didn't listen to Lori's trial. Can't remember why because I was diligent in following everything before. Maybe my attention was on something else (wars, politics, etc) at the time because it took so long to go to trial. I just caught occasional TV updates. Now, getting back into all this, I decided to start checking it and I just went and listened to Audrey's testimony. OMG!!!!!!! Wow. My head is spinning. Do you guys think what she said was true about that insane and scary threat she said Lori made? Holy s.... That sounded like something out of the Exorcist. Like a, uh, demon or a ZOMBIE. The laughing at Audrey was especially chilling. Man, oh, man. Audrey's also pretty weird (no surprise in this saga) though as gullible as she is, she had the sense to know something wasn't right and got the hell out of there. I really, really liked Archibald. I laughed when he was questioning her about Chad's grandiose incarnations and how he never said anything like he had a life where he was he was a loser in the 1700s. Now, I'm gonna have to listen to the whole thing. What a bummer that video tape wasn't allowed. I would have loved to see Lori's face when Audrey gave that testimony.

I believed Audrey. I watched Juror number 4 being interview by Nate Eaton on Saturday night. She said Audrey didn’t sway her. She thought the defense made a good point that Audrey didn’t tell the grand jury. I was surprised but that’s ok. I guess in my gut I could totally see Lori doing that. She laughed about killing her children and while discussing it with Chad she said “you make me hot” or something like that. She disgusts me.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Who is RW? I would agree with him about a Mormon conspiracy to protect the reputation of that cult. It's not like this is first spin off cult of that church, either. Nevertheless, Lori is guilty as hell and responsible for her own actions, delusional or not. When you say white knight syndrome I think of Ian. Perhaps they're similar personalities.

Rob Wood, prosecutor.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Chad told Audrey that she was Jesus' wife in a previous probation, so yes, she was naive. When she visited Lori in Rexburg in November (when Lori allegedly threatened her), she must have noticed the absence of Lori's children. There's a chance she knew why they were gone. She never testified about asking her.

You can check old tweets for description of Lori's reaction. When her old friends were on the stand, Lori was lunged forward in her seat, giving them an evil stare.

I thought Audrey, Lori and another friend were in Hawaii when she was threatened.

 

[wnk]

As we await Monday morning, I'm presenting here my list of...

Never-Gonna-Happen Witnesses That Would Make for the Most Off-the-Wall, "Must-Watch" Defense Arguments
- Lori Vallow
- Julie Rowe
- Russell Nelson, the current LDS prophet, to testify as to whether CD's teachings were orthodox, historical, or otherwise
- Thom Harrison, author of "Visions of Glory," the book from which CD stole a lot of his more "unique" ideas
- The contractor who built the Cozy Cone, to testify as to whether there are stairs
- McDonald's cashier, to testify that Garth bought Tammy a Big Mac the night she died
- Expert raccoon hunter, to testify about Rexburg's local raccoon population and the feasibility of killing one
- Expert gravedigger, to testify that no gravedigger worth his salt would dig such shoddy graves
- BYU-I librarian, to testify that CD spent all his time writing at the library
- All those people who claimed to see Tylee or JJ in various places early on in the missing persons cases, before their remains were uncovered

 

[aafromaa]

As we await Monday morning, I'm presenting here my list of...

Never-Gonna-Happen Witnesses That Would Make for the Most Off-the-Wall, "Must-Watch" Defense Arguments
- Lori Vallow
- Julie Rowe
- Russell Nelson, the current LDS prophet, to testify as to whether CD's teachings were orthodox, historical, or otherwise
- Thom Harrison, author of "Visions of Glory," the book from which CD stole a lot of his more "unique" ideas
- The contractor who built the Cozy Cone, to testify as to whether there are stairs
- McDonald's cashier, to testify that Garth bought Tammy a Big Mac the night she died
- Expert raccoon hunter, to testify about Rexburg's local raccoon population and the feasibility of killing one
- Expert gravedigger, to testify that no gravedigger worth his salt would dig such shoddy graves
- BYU-I librarian, to testify that CD spent all his time writing at the library
- All those people who claimed to see Tylee or JJ in various places early on in the missing persons cases, before their remains were uncovered

Wnk, I think maybe this 3 day weekend with no testimony to talk about has been a bit too long for you.

 

[indicolite22]

As we await Monday morning, I'm presenting here my list of...

Never-Gonna-Happen Witnesses That Would Make for the Most Off-the-Wall, "Must-Watch" Defense Arguments
- Lori Vallow
- Julie Rowe
- Russell Nelson, the current LDS prophet, to testify as to whether CD's teachings were orthodox, historical, or otherwise
- Thom Harrison, author of "Visions of Glory," the book from which CD stole a lot of his more "unique" ideas
- The contractor who built the Cozy Cone, to testify as to whether there are stairs
- McDonald's cashier, to testify that Garth bought Tammy a Big Mac the night she died
- Expert raccoon hunter, to testify about Rexburg's local raccoon population and the feasibility of killing one
- Expert gravedigger, to testify that no gravedigger worth his salt would dig such shoddy graves
- BYU-I librarian, to testify that CD spent all his time writing at the library
- All those people who claimed to see Tylee or JJ in various places early on in the missing persons cases, before their remains were uncovered

I'd add Eric Smith, who introduced some of the doctrinal concepts to Chad an Julie Rowe.
For the unhinged factor, the psychic who claims that she solved the children's case before anyone else.

 

[indicolite22]

I thought Audrey, Lori and another friend were in Hawaii when she was threatened.

As you would expect, Lori's threat ended their friendship. The trip to Hawaii happened before Audrey's Rexburg visit.

 

[Love Never Fails]

As we await Monday morning, I'm presenting here my list of...

Never-Gonna-Happen Witnesses That Would Make for the Most Off-the-Wall, "Must-Watch" Defense Arguments
- Lori Vallow
- Julie Rowe
- Russell Nelson, the current LDS prophet, to testify as to whether CD's teachings were orthodox, historical, or otherwise
- Thom Harrison, author of "Visions of Glory," the book from which CD stole a lot of his more "unique" ideas
- The contractor who built the Cozy Cone, to testify as to whether there are stairs
- McDonald's cashier, to testify that Garth bought Tammy a Big Mac the night she died
- Expert raccoon hunter, to testify about Rexburg's local raccoon population and the feasibility of killing one
- Expert gravedigger, to testify that no gravedigger worth his salt would dig such shoddy graves
- BYU-I librarian, to testify that CD spent all his time writing at the library
- All those people who claimed to see Tylee or JJ in various places early on in the missing persons cases, before their remains were uncovered

I would love it. But I am not sure an expert raccoon hunter would testify how we would want him to.

I live in an area in Indiana that is very much like the countryside where Chads home is.
Raccoons do come out at night but every once in a while you can see one crossing the road or someone’s yard here during the day.

I grew up in Texas and lived in the country. It was not unusual at all to see a large raccoon come up to our glass door in back and look inside. They are cute but they are pesky critters and I wouldn’t have minded if someone would have shot it for me.

 

[Artis]

I would love it. But I am not sure an expert raccoon hunter would testify how we would want him to.

I live in an area in Indiana that is very much like the countryside where Chads home is.
Raccoons do come out at night but every once in a while you can see one crossing the road or someone’s yard here during the day.

I grew up in Texas and lived in the country. It was not unusual at all to see a large raccoon come up to our glass door in back and look inside. They are cute but they are pesky critters and I wouldn’t have minded if someone would have shot it for me.

I like raccoons.

 

[Artis]

Chad already has distanced himself from her.

SBM

Has he and in what way?

 

[Artis]

We can only only guess what type of psych diagnoses any of these people would have but it doesn't take a professional to get acquainted with the criteria for the various personality disorders. With Lori I would say (IMOO) she has psychopathic traits, in addition to delusions, narc traits and borderline. I think it was Chad's demonic framework of reality that really gelled for her and allowed her to justify her murderous nature which I believe was fully present before meeting him. With Chad's ideology, everything she wanted to do (kill people and steal their money) became God's will. The mindset isn't much different from other fanatics, like ISIS.

 

[Ruminations]

Since Chad is indigent, I wonder who is paying for the defense witnesses' expenses? Lori Hellis speculates that MG likely won't be called by JP because of the associated cost. LH expects an expert to dispute CAST data analysis.

How can MG be called? As I understand it, she has successfully dodged being subpoenaed.

But the way the trial has been run, Prior has been allowed to go beyond the prosecution's scope to save time spent recalling witnesses.

It just occurred to me that I don't know if that has only been true for witnesses for which Prior also had a subpoena, but I guess the answer is no, since Prior did bring in things like that 4:00 AM text, which was beyond the scope.

It also occurs to me, does this mean the prosecution can go beyond the defense's scope- particularly in the case of (if) the daybell children get called? I assume the kids will be unhelpful defense witnesses, but that is more true if the prosecution can cross examine and go beyond the scope.

Speculatively answering my own question, perhaps the same latitude will not be given to the prosecution, being that the rested their case already. But given that they have their rebuttal- who knows.

I can't wait to see the daybell children, although I feel very bad for them in that position and hope for them that they are not called. If they are, I hope they don't lie on the stand.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I thought Audrey, Lori and another friend were in Hawaii when she was threatened.

They had returned to Idaho; that scene (that I also believe) occurred in Lori's condo.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I'd add Eric Smith, who introduced some of the doctrinal concepts to Chad an Julie Rowe.
For the unhinged factor, the psychic who claims that she solved the children's case before anyone else.

That psychic!

She was probably one of countless people who were right, and not one of countless others who were wrong.

It doesn't prove anything that a person had a feeling about the outcome of a case that turned out to be right; it would prove something if we knew about all of the right and wrong "solutions" and could compare the outcomes with statistical expectations, and there were a statistically significant higher success rate.

MOO

 

[Love Never Fails]

We can only only guess what type of psych diagnoses any of these people would have but it doesn't take a professional to get acquainted with the criteria for the various personality disorders. With Lori I would say (IMOO) she has psychopathic traits, in addition to delusions, narc traits and borderline. I think it was Chad's demonic framework of reality that really gelled for her and allowed her to justify her murderous nature which I believe was fully present before meeting him. With Chad's ideology, everything she wanted to do (kill people and steal their money) became God's will. The mindset isn't much different from other fanatics, like ISIS.

This is a good post and I agree with you. That is why I believed Audrey. She had no reason to add to her testimony except that seeing Lori triggered real fear in her.
Of course, I hope she has learned from this and can spot a scam and con artist miles away. She likely needs professional help.