TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #2

[TheHiredGun]

Now.... to give you a layout of the scene.... Look at the ariel view in the link I've provided and find where it says E Seminary Dr. Just above that you can see what looks like a small roundabout or circle type drive. That is the current bus stop for the mall.

Just to the north of the current bus roundabout is the mall loop road that goes around the entire mall. Also, the building just to the north of the roundabout is Sears. At the right east end of the sears building is a parking lot (inside of the look road) It is much lower than the lot in front of the building. That was the lower Garden Shop basement entrance to Sears. The Garden Shop was outdoors and covered with security bars, similar to a Walmart. There was a lower parking lot entrance to the Garden Shop. It was "well-known' shortcut into the mall. You went through the Garden Shop into the basement of Sears. Just inside the doors were the Layaway Dept, then toys, sporting goods and finally hardware. The escalator to the main level and all the clothing depts was in the middle of the basement. When you got to the main level on the escalator, you walked straight ahead, out the west doors and into the open mall.

Now, as to where the car was parked.........

Look at the parking lot just outside the Garden Shop and go across the mall loop road to the outer parking area. That is the lot where the car was found. In the ariel photo, you can see what looks like a big white van or truck sitting all by itself at the east far end of the lot, near the freeway service road. The best that I can tell from the news footage, the car was found on the next isle north of where that van is, in a parking space facing NE and apx 10 spots in from the outer end of the lot. Thats a long way from the bulidings.

In answer to your question, as you can tell from the news footage from the day after. The parking lot where the car was found was full. They were probably in a hurry as most kids always are, the lot was packed and they just found the first spot that was empty.... even it meant hoofing it a little further to get their shopping done and home for the party.

As to where the stand alone mail kiosk was....

I don't believe its been there in years.... and I can't remember the EXACT spot but.... from Sears go west all the way across the mall. It was in that first west side lot, away from the building and just inside the mall loop road. The glass doors to the mall security offices were just a few steps away at that end of the building.

Making a little for sense now, isn't it?

I'm thinking now that it is indeed possible, again although not probable, that the girls might have been detained in the basement of the mall somewhere. Its possible that there was an rogue security guard on duty that day that was hired as an extra for the holidays. If he'd had them locked in a room say for suspicion of shoplifting, claiming they were being held until their parents were contacted. He went on about his rounds driving around the mall up until closing. He then comes upon the families and finds out from them that FWPD has aleady left and isn't going to do anything for at least 24 hours. He then plays the sympathetic security guard, getting got Tommy's (THOMAS'S) information (phone # and address) telling them he'll do what he can for them.

Now, he knows the mall isn't crawling with FWPD and they're not even gonna be looking for them for 24 hours. Its now near the end of his shift. He goes back to where he has the girls held at the other end of the mall. Perhaps, he tells them... "OK, I shouldn't BUT since its Xmas, I'm gonna give you a break and let you go. C'mon I'll drive you to where your car's parked".

At this point the girls are calmed down, thinking they're going home. This works in his favor, because they won't be fighting him in public. The families are on the other side of the mall. There aren't gonna be any cops around. He now KNOWS the FWPD currently considers them runaways. So he gets an envelope, scribbles down the the runaway note in a hurry (which explains Rachel name being goofed up) takes a few steps up the the mail kiosk and drops the letter. He then goes and get the girls (who are now calm because he's claims he's sending them home) walks back up to the parking lot, away from the families and hurry them into his own personal truck. Somewhere during this point he runs into Mr. Hutchins, whom he knows.

As I recall, right near the security doors to the basemant was a Buddies/Wynn Dixie supermarket that was open late. Perhaps, Mr. Hutchins had stopped by there to pick up something on his way home and spotted the mall guard in HIS truck with as he was trying to slip away.

Perhaps, the Rachel or one of the girls were getting a little mouthy and protesting something like "You just wait Mr... when Tommy hears about this" EVEN THOUGH they THOUGHT they were being taken to there car.

Mr. Hutchins observes this from across the lot and yells "Hey.... what the Hell's goin on with you and these girls at this time of night, Bobby"? and walks towards the truck.

The mall guard tell the girls to shut up and explains that he thought they had been shoplifting but realized he was wrong and is talking them to their car at the other side of the mall.

Mr. Hutchins stated in the article that "AT THAT POINT" the girls appeared to be with him willingly. Well.... of course they did! They THOUGHT they were being driven to their car.

Mr Hutchins went on to say.... "When I apologized for my language, they laughed, you know, everybody was happy. We just exchanged a few comments, then he rolled up his window and drove off"........... NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN!

A couple of days later... When Mr. Hutchins realized WHAT he had seen it was too late.... He realized that the mall guard was an extra for the holidays and wouldn't be coming back. IF he inquired further about him to mall security or reported it to the PD, maybe he felt that he'd be publicly ridiculed for NOT stepping in a little further that night. After all..... these were YOUNG girls and after thinking about it later.... "I should've thought something more of it than I did..... after all it was almost midnight. Those girls shouldn't have been with mall security that late.... no matter what. I BLEW IT!!! Those girls are probably dead now.... and I had a chance to stop it. People will blame me.... I'll lose my job"!

This could plausible and maybe the reason he FINALLY came forward 25 years later.

I still want to know:

WHAT WAS THE RUN IN ABOUT???
WHAT PART OF THE MALL PARKING LOT DID THIS HAPPEN IN???
WAS THE MALL GUARD IN THE MALL SECURITY TRUCK OR HIS OWN PERSONAL TRUCK???

If he was in HIS OWN truck..... then I believe Mr. Hutchins story is most likely somewhat true.....

 

[TheHiredGun]

One last thing........ IF it was DeBardeleben???

Apx 10-15 seconds from the parking lot were the security office were located, was the SW exit to the mall. Now.... check this out. DeBardeleben was a known MASTER of ruses. He had to think quick a lot of times......

Think about this for a moment......

Back then, I don't think even security guards were background checked. And I can't recall if they even had more than just a badge and PRINTED ID. Don't recall if they had a picture ID. However, I didn't see one on the one armed mall security in the new footage.

OK.... DeBardeleben was also a MASTER of alias' and fake ID's. Let's say for a moment that he WAS part-time mall security for the holidays.

I CAN tell you this for a fact..... there were LOTS out of the way rooms / conference rooms, etc in the basement area of that mall that those girls could have been placed in. Me and the neigborhood kids used to sneak around down there all the time. Security never checked them. They were either in their offices, which were at the bottom of the steps or they were up top in the mall on patrol. They would've never been heard. This place was MASSIVE underground. Think of something like Texas stadium. It was THAT big. And during the holidays.... the other guards would've been "up top" in the mall most of the time.

Think about..... He's on his way out with the girls. Gets confronted by Hutchins. Maybe because Rachel "doth protest a little too much" as they're getting in his pickup, even though she's supposed to be on her way back to the car. Hutchins hears her raised voice. Now.... the abductor has been ID'd because of her. Now has an even bigger problem due to her protests.

And forgive me..... I CAN absolutely see a 17 year old like Rachel getting mouthy in a situation like this..... especially if she thought she was going home and knew Tommy would be angry about the mall guard. Yeah, she was probably spouting off a few remarks like "You just wait til I get home, Buddy! You're really gonna..... "CATCH IT"! Wow....... Maybe that where the abductor got the phrase???

What if.... the abductor turned to her AFTER Hutchins has driven away and says "You know.... I've changed my mind.... I think I'm just gonna take you girls home to your parents and tell them about how I caught you shoplifting".

I'm sure he KNEW where they all lived by that point because he'd probably got that info from them by then. He had already goteb Tommy and Rachel's address from Tommy. And guess what.... he also pretty much KNEW right where it was. Right on the way to his mother's house.

Remember.... I told you the nearest mall exit to the security offices was perhaps 15 seconds away. Bam...... you're now outta away from all the commotion at the mall and on E Seminary Dr. The girls aren't pannicking too much as of yet, because he's heading right in the direction of ALL of their homes.... just a couple of minutes away..... literally. At this point they realistcally might think thats where they're going. And it apx midnight.... in the cold winter.... the streets are practically empty. Now.... let me show you something..... thats REALLY scary!

http://www.whitepages.com/maps/dire...treet=4200+South+freeway&where=Fort+Worth,+TX

Take this link that is the address for the mall and in the start direction box, type in 4824 Gordon Ave which is not dead on but within a couple of blocks or so to one of the girl's homes.

Now, clear the start direction box and enter 3905 W Spurgeon St. Which again is not exact but within a block or two of where DeBardeleben had been staying in recent months.

Pretty startling...... he'd only need to pull a pistol on the for maybe 2-3 minutes once the realized they WEREN'T going home and he'd have the pulled inside the garage where he was staying.

Just a thought...

It all depends on exactly WHAT Mr. Hutchins said really happened that night.

 

[TheHiredGun]

Actually, I told you wrong for the 2nd entry.... Leave the Gordon Ave address in the start box and put the W Spurgeon address in the end box.

As you can see. They would thought he was doing as he said and taking them home up until the last 2-3 minutes. There homes were RIGHT IN THE PATH and just a couple of minutes away from HIS mother's house, where he'd been staying recently. Thats MORE than just a little spooky.

 

[justthinkin]

justthinkin.....

Here's an ariel view of the mall to give you an idea of just how vast it was/is.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&ss=La...yOTk5OTk5OTl+LTk3LjMyNTg1MyZsdmw9MTcmc3R5PWg=

Can you make a circle in red on that map showing where Rachel's car was parked?

 

[justthinkin]

You know, HG, it is possible that he held the girls in his house, bound and gagged and unconscious, and went back to the mall, and dropped the letter in the slot.

Last minute mail, Christmas time. Do you really think anyone would be paying attention?

There was no reason for anyone to keep an eye on that mailbox.

I'll have more comments, but at the moment, I'm still reading.

 

[justthinkin]

So let me get this straight. The Sears security guard is out in the parking lot at 11:30PM. Why is he not inside the building? Was he going home at that time, a shift change perhaps? Was another guard present inside Sears while this guy was doing a walkaround on the outside?

This guy was ex-FWPD? And he left word with a secretary? Pure BS! He didn't see it in the paper. Sure he didn't. This guy is lying. The question is--why is he lying?
He felt the sudden urge to feel important?
He wanted to impress someone?
He had something to do with it, but thought he was clever enough to come forward, and tell this tall tale X number of years later?

Is reward money still on the table?

 

[TheHiredGun]

justthinkin...

Not sure how to circle the parking spot. However, in the following post I gave pretty detailed info on how to locate it within 1-2 spaces.

I believe your theory is possible but on the high side of improbable. Whether the abductor was the mall guard or a total stranger, they would know that there's a possibility that they might have been seen. Besides Mr. Hutchins, there were two other witnesses that claimed they saw a disturbance and/or a possible abduction of 1-3 young girls in the mall parking lot that day. However, from what I've read, none of the three statements matched in any way, including the times. Mr. Hutchins' statement appears to be only one placing all 3 girls, including their proper age ranges, all together at the same time. That's why I'm leaning towards believing at least PART of his story. Albeit extremely strange that it took 25 years for FWPD to finally get that story, he certainly appears to have some motivation behind him getting it told. I've previously stated my opinion on what may have prompted him to withhold what he know.

IMO, I just don't think that whoever abducted them would've came back to the mall later. Even though no one would've been watching the mailbox, it was just too risky for them. Besides, they could have pulled the letter scam off from ANY mailbox or post office. It didn't have to be the mall.

No, I believe that regardless of who or how, the letter was dropped BEFORE that person left the mall and that they had also somehow gained knowledge that the FWPD had written the girls off as runaways, at least for the first 24 hours. That info probably wasn't circulated between FWPD, family, friends and mall security until sometime after 6:00 PM the night of the disappearance. They had to find that info out first hand because it wasn't made public or in the media until the letter came the next day. Having that knowledge gave them the idea for the letter.

Again..... thats just my opinion...

 

[TheHiredGun]

I'm thinking with mall security, Sear's probably didn't have an overnight security guard. However, I say that for sure.

From what I remember personally, the mall stores normally closed at 9:00 PM, but always stayed open until 10:00 PM during the holidays. So, when you think about it, it probably took apx 1.5 hours for all of the depts @ Sear's to get the customes out, do their normal close procedures, count their registers, turn their money into the main office upstairs, let the employees out and lock up. Security would have been the last to leave, so that would've indeed put Mr. Hutchins in the parking lot sometime around 11:30 PM as he was heading home for the night.

I'm pretty sure that store security handled only the inside of their respective stores and mall security patroled and handled all the outside areas and parking lots.

I'm telling you.... IMO, the Sears guard came forward due to age and conscience. I don't think that he was the abductor. He either saw what he said he saw, kept quite because he felt like he would be blamed and possibly fired for NOT being more proactive and investigating what he observed a little further. Or, the mall guard was someone he knew somewhat, enough so that he looked the other way, never imagining the outcome would unfold as it did. Same thing.... knowing that he could've possibly prevented it, he kept quiet out of guilt, fear of ridicule and termination.

I think there may possibly be a Crimestoppers reward, but not enough that I'd think would be a motivation for him putting himself on the line after all this time. He's an ex-cop. He had to know that he was going to raise at lot of eyebrows by coming forward after 25 years. I don't think he was after the reward, if there was any.

Also, I believe early on Tommy Trlica put up a pretty good sized reward. Somewhere between $5-20k as I recall. I believe that I saw it somewhere in this thread. That was a lot of money for back then. However, from what I read he had an inheritance comeing his way when he turned 25. Perhaps, he was allowed to go into for reward moneyu if the girls were found. I also seem to remember reading that he later pulled down the reward.

 

[thefirstman]

I hope to illustrate some things in some posts to help people see that James Mitchell DeBardeleben was a sociopath or psychopath and a sexual sadist. What does that mean?

One of the most important aspects of a sociopath to understand is that they do not feel empathy or compassion for other people, or they have the ability to place a huge empathic wall up inside of them and switch off any feelings, especially compassionate or empathic ones for another human being. This makes them almost subhuman. One of the most important aspects of being human is the capacity to feel empathy for others.

The twist for sociopaths, unlike narcissistic personality disorder is that the sociopath naturally comes to study relevant social, political, moral and legal codes of the society so as learn how to maximally work around them. They watch and imitate what works in social discourse as a way to maximally manipulate and coerce potential victims.

Add to the fact that DeBardeleben was a sexual sadist or a person who drives to deliver pleasure from other people's suffering and you have an lethal admixture of personality traits.

One of the biggest pieces of evidence that we can glean from both the Missing Trio and Lyon sister cases respectively was NO EVIDENCE. This is SO extraordinary. With people, especially the Lyon sisters case, where law enforcement, news media, the national guard, families, church, essential an entire community searching for any piece of relevant information for years and years and the only evidence was NO EVIDENCE!

This speaks to the highly sophisticated and extremely well thought out plan of the kidnapper.

In the case of the Missing Trio I find it very unlikely that DeBardeleben worked for any security unit. He more then likely studied the uniforms and either ripped one off, or simply recreated it. If he was seen at 11:30 PM then he hid the girls underground until making a break for it. More then likely our sears guard mixed up the time at which he thought he saw the girls.

This was a crowded and hectic day and evening at the mall. Information or sighting of the girls was not linked with any suspicion at the moment of sighting by the Sears Security Guard. When information arises later about missing children the Sears Security Guard could easily get sequencing confused.

Also I take at face value the reporting of the sighting 2 days later to the police and the massively irresponsible response he may have received. He may or may not have believed the case was "solved", but he may have also believed he did what he needed to and the police simply knew more about the case so they were handling his reported sighting within a context.

I could see how 25 years later he may want to push again.

Again an eerily similar thing occurred in the Lyon sister's case where an IBM employee and another spotted the girls gagged and bound in the back seat of a car in Northern VA some 7 or 8 days after the initial disappearance. This eye witness was reporting on the Websleuth page his sense of torture that the police so disregarded his reported eye witness accounts.

Please see MDietz47 postings http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81752&page=4

DeBardeleben likely did not confront the girls with anything threatening but more likely used the ruse of needing their help. This is so much more disarming. He could claim an urgent security matter that he thinks they may help him with and state that their help is absolutely imperative.

I believe that DeBardeleben delivered the mail directly to Tommy's home. In fact there were questions about if mail was actually delivered on Christmas Eve day. And Rusty reported hearing the "mailman" outside the door, but only this one letter arrived (I believe these were the facts). DeBardeleben would likely have had a passion for getting that close to the pain and mayhem of the immediate family following a kidnapping.

I theorize that DeBardeleben mailed letters to himself, addressed in pencil led, in the days or weeks prior to the kidnapping so as to be able to create a post marked envelope that he could change and manipulate in order to fit his sadistic plan.

A note was also reported to have appeared in the Lyon sister's case according to other WebSleuthers - (again Mdietz47). In the Lyon sister's case I have a vague recollection of a public statement that a note appeared when fisherman found it down stream from a favorite fishing area. It was a note in a bottle and the police reportedly validated that the handwriting was in fact one of the Lyon sister's. (The note in the Lyon case was something that has not been widely publicized so it may be more difficult to verify).

For those of you out there who may want to explore more about whether DeBardeleben committed the missing trio crimes then studying up on the Lyon sister's case is an absolute must.

Two crimes committed at two outdoor malls.

Both were committed at peak holiday times - just before Christmas Dec 23, 1974 and just before Easter March 25, 1975.

Both involved multiple kidnappings of girls in "broad daylight".

Both involved sudden and unexplained disappearances without a trace - NO EVIDENCE ever to this day.

Both places, Fort Worth and Wheaton Maryland, were home bases for a life of crime for a known kidnapper, rapist, psycho-sexual sadist who was well known for using police ruses to capture his victims - James Mitchell DeBardeleben.

DeBardeleben had a passion for committing crimes at malls - especially crowded malls - for a reason that I will explain in more detail later.

Both crimes likely involved a note written for the sake of creating maximum chaos and as a means to deepening the wounds to the family and the community by the perpetrator.

Both sets of victims were likely seen in the vehicle of the perpetrator shortly after the kidnapping (Missing Trio the evening of the kidnapping - the Lyon sisters approximately one week later after having gone missing).

DeBardeleben's mother died in the Spring of 74 and his wife reportedly left him in the fall of 74 and went into hiding near her parents in Northern Virginia. It has been well documented that his wife's escape from his psychopathic clutches sent DeBardeleben into a rageful frenzy.

 

[TheHiredGun]

@ thefirstman........

Thanks so much for your insight into the two cases. I've found it to be most enlightening and look forward to more.

One thing though.... if DeBardeleben was the man seen @ the mall that night.... then he was taking a huge risk.... hours after the girls had been considered missing. No one is pefect all of the time. If by chance he kept the FW girls alive for some period of time, then perhaps he left the area and headed out of state with them. I don't recall ever seeing any coverage of the Missing Trio disappearance outside of local news. If so, then my next post will make sense to everyone.

 

[TheHiredGun]

Tonight, I emailed this below to Daniel Slepian @ Dateline NBC. I intend to forward it to as many national news segment show as possible. Don't think the story has ever been told on the air nationwide. All it takes is ONE good tip that leads to a patch of ground somewhere. I think the families deserve that much if possible.

Daniel,

Below is a link to the Missing Trio website..... a case that you may already be familiar with.

http://www.missingtrio.com

This is a 37 year old missing persons case of 3 young girls ages 17, 14 and 9. The trio disappeared from a Fort Worth, Texas shopping mall just two days before Christmas in 1974

Besides being a tragic story that has never had a resolution for the families, it has many twists and turns that I feel would make a very interesting story for Dateline. A car left behind at the mall with Xmas presents still inside. A suspiciously worded letter mailed to the family the next day claiming the girls had ran away together. A suspicious suicide by the private investigator who was working on the the case. A department store security guard strangely coming forward 25 years later claiming that he saw the girls in a pickup with a mall security guard after closing. The fact that the infamous convicted serial rapist and suspected murderer Mike DeBardeleben was known to have been living within 5 minutes of the mall and the girl's homes just weeks before. Finally, the fact that the security guard implication perfectly matched DeBardeleben's known MO.... impersonating security / law enforcement.

This case has haunted myself and the residents of Fort Worth for over a 1/3 of a century. Although every so often, the local news will do a small memorial piece during the holidays, I've never once seen any national media attention given to it. The girl's families are getting up in years and I would like nothing more than to see them have some closure in this before they pass on.

I sincerely believe that this case deserves at least ONE national segment after 37 years. Mainly because DeBardeleben crisscrossed the country back and forth constantly for years before his final arrest by the secret service in TN in the 1980's. At the of his arrest he was living in the DC area. So, as you can see, he was constantly moving all over the country. However, local authorities here also considered him as a prime suspect "years after the fact" in this as well as several other unsolved cases while he was living in Fort Worth during the 1970's. Due to his crimes all across the US for many, many years, perhaps airing a story nationally would open up some leads or produce some witnesses on this case that have never come to light before.

I realize that you get many, many requests to do stories of this nature, but I sincerely hope that you will look into this one a bit further and consider doing a story for the benefit of the 3 families who've lost their children.

I will be more than happy to assist in directing you and your staff to more research information upon request.

Respectfully yours,

 

[justthinkin]

If Debardeleben had abducted the girls while wearing a uniform and cap, then no one would have seen his hair or at least not his hairline and the texture of it, so all he would have to do is go back dressed in street clothes.

firstman, I do believe it was stated on here in an earlier thread that the letter TT received did have a postmark on it, but I could be mistaken.

 

[thefirstman]

DeBardeleben was known to have been extremely bright. He hated police and he hated jail. He was determined to not get caught. But he was also more determined to feed his insatiable psycho-sexual appetite.

All of his criminal activity were geared toward stealing money so he could feed his torturing scenarios of women.

DeBardeleben had endless aliases. He worked hard to create alternative ID's and disguises to fly beneath the radar.

He did crimes in stages. The most potentially incriminating acts were always the last stage.

So in the case of the Missing Trio IF DeBardeleben stowed them away underneath the mall and was later caught with the girls while making a break for it, he would have lied and said he was mall security. He would have said he had NO IDEA police were looking for the girls as he was simply taking them through routine security procedures for the girl's sake or for the girl's misconduct.

He must have figured that even if he were caught at that moment and charged with kidnapping, he still had not raped anyone in this crime scene. So these girls and the police would have to really want to nail a guy who has a police record but has never been convicted of crime that even approximates the kind of criminal activity that includes kidnapping, raping, photographing, tape-recording and murdering his victims. Searches of his home may not have produced meaningful evidence as he was known for using his alias to rent and create safe houses.

DeBardeleben may have even offered the older girls cocaine or other drugs once underground. A simple statement to the older girls like, "man we just caught a guy with all these drugs on him - check this out...You guys are free to use the bathroom while I go back up to the store and talk to the manager for a minute. I won't say anything if some of these confiscated drugs are missing - wink, wink."

Now if he is caught a few hours later emerging from the basement of the mall these girls have NO experience of themselves as being kidnapping victims. These are just some girls who willingly went along with a security guard who befriended them and allowed them to party a bit.

All of this said I have a very difficult time believing the Sears Security Guard's timeline. I think DeBardeleben got them in his pickup truck upon contact with them and took them down to the "security headquarters" away from the mall. Once on the highway they were his.

@ thefirstman........

Thanks so much for your insight into the two cases. I've found it to be most enlightening and look forward to more.

One thing though.... if DeBardeleben was the man seen @ the mall that night.... then he was taking a huge risk.... hours after the girls had been considered missing. No one is pefect all of the time. If by chance he kept the FW girls alive for some period of time, then perhaps he left the area and headed out of state with them. I don't recall ever seeing any coverage of the Missing Trio disappearance outside of local news. If so, then my next post will make sense to everyone.

 

[TheHiredGun]

@ thefirstman....

I still have to believe somewhat that the Sears guard was right about the time. Would have been just about the time he would have left the store if they closed @ 10:00 PM. Takes an hour or so for all the depts to get closed out, final register count in the upper offices, etc. 11:30 PM would have been just about the right time for him to be going home.

Also, I just can't see DeBardeleben hanging around in the mall lot @ 11:30 PM if he wasn't actually acting in a part-time mall capacity. Thats just far too risky. Remember, the girls were supposed to be home before 4:00 PM..... 7-1/2 hrs hours earlier. There's no way he'd still be hanging around that long and by that point the girls wouldn't have been acting calm as the Sears guard stated.

I think he actually was a part-time holiday mall guard who worked under an alias anme for maybe no more than a week or so. Since no one even connected him until years later, no one would've still been able to ID him after all that time. He looks quite different in his different mug shots.

He later was obsessed with law enforement and security. Perhaps he did it for the training and inside knowlege that he apparently used quite proficiently in later years.

 

[TheHiredGun]

Deige confirmed the letter was postmarked on the 24th and received that same morning. PM came from the mall. PO kiosk at mall had its own ZIP. PO sub-station was two locks away. Again, I lived in that neighborhood at it could've made it to their home the next morning bause they lived in the SAME ZIP. I saw it happen many times in those days.

I'll give you.... Rachel could've been forced to write the note. But, I'm convinced it was mailed that night from the mall.

If we can get someone like Dateline or A&E to pickup on the story and go nationwide, they'll do some research and get some answers. Like more information from Hutchins regarding the entire circumstances of the encounter. Was he just getting off work? Where in the mall did the encounter take place? What drew his attention to them? Was he sure that he was a mall guard? Did he know him personally? Was he just a part-timer for the holidays? Was he in a mall security pickup or an unmarked pickup? That was never made clear.... report just said a PICKUP.

 

[TheHiredGun]

At this point.... the BEST lead thats ever been made PUBLIC is Hutchins. There were other supposed witnesses, but none ever said they saw the THREE girls together. Hutchins is ONLY one to have claimed seeing 3 GIRLS fitting their ages TOGETHER at the mall which involved an ALTERCATION of some kind.

Outside of Hutchins.... you have the letter and THATS IT.

You have to start with best KNOWN lead.

 

[TheHiredGun]

I have to say this.... I had to type my butt off this weekend but it has paid off. I'm seeing this thread moving again.... and it WAS dying.

Mission accomplished!!!!

 

[justthinkin]

At this point.... the BEST lead thats ever been made PUBLIC is Hutchins. There were other supposed witnesses, but none ever said they saw the THREE girls together. Hutchins is ONLY one to have claimed seeing 3 GIRLS fitting their ages TOGETHER at the mall which involved an ALTERCATION of some kind.

Outside of Hutchins.... you have the letter and THATS IT.

You have to start with best KNOWN lead.

I guess I'm having trouble believing his story. If he'd worked for FWPD, and even if he'd worked for some other PD, wouldn't he have contacted a detective rather than a secretary? That just doesn't sit well with me.

I would like to know the source of the stories about other people who supposedly heard some altercation or loud arguing that same evening. Can we pin that down? Was it in the Star-Telegram?

It was my understanding that family members watched Rachel's car all night. If so, wouldn't they have also heard or seen something that looked out of the ordinary?

If the Sears guy really did see anything, it had to be very near Sears I would think. He's not going to park a zillion miles from the door he entered to go to work.

The thing is he could also be confused. Maybe he didn't read the newspapers or watch TV. Hard to believe back then, but it's possible. So maybe when he finally did read something about it, it jogged his memory to an event that he mistook for the night the girls disappeared. Memory becomes less reliable as time goes by.

Yep, HG, you sure got this going again. Thanks! Nothing like new blood to reinvigorate a case. Oh, and before I forget, welcome to Websleuths. :wagon:

 

[TheHiredGun]

Thanks for the welcome.

You could be right. Maybe the old man's confused. And I agree completely. He was ex-FWPD. He had to know ways to circumvent around the secretary. Hell, all he had to do was tell her "Listen lady.... My name's Bill Hutchins.... and I'm former FWPD... I've got pertinent info regarding the mall disappearces... get me though to the detective in charge RIGHT NOW". He could have got through if he wanted to. As an ex-cop, he wouldn't have just dismissed it and "blew it off" as he said. He'd have checked into it further.

However, I'd still like to know the entire story the guy gave. The newspaper article gave no specific details of the encounter. Think I may see if I can get through to the Tv reporter that the paper quoted from.

I'll let you know what I find out.

 

[TheHiredGun]

justthinkin....

I have emailed the TV reporter who supposedly interviewed Mr. Hutchins and am awaiting his reply.