UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

[Maryanna]

9 minutes ago

Parents deny private investigators were trailing Marten when she went on the run​

In agreed facts read to the jury on Thursday, they were told Marten’s parents had made statements to the police about their use of private investigators.
The court heard that Marten’s mother employed a private investigator for two weeks in October 2016 because she was worried about her daughter.
Her father told police he had hired investigators to find her in 2017 and 2021.
However both deny any private investigator was instructed to find her in 2022 or in 2023 – when she went on the run with Gordon and baby Victoria.

Constance Marten trial: Aristocrat accused of killing baby back in court - live

It's hard to say anything about this evidence without knowing the exact wording and what exactly they are denying. For example, if they knew where she was in 2022 or early 2023 they wouldn't have needed to "find" her but they may have been trying to discover what she was doing.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Expert challenged on study into babies in tents​

Continuing his cross examination, Mr Little KC challenged Professor Fleming over a study he had written into babies raised in tents – called gers - in cold conditions in Mongolia.
Mr Little pointed out a ger is large enough for families to walk around in, often insulated with wool and heated by a fire.
He said it was “not helpful” to compare it to the “flimsy” tent Gordon and Marten were staying in on the South Downs.
“I was not comparing the tent with a ger I was comparing the environmental temperature around the baby,” Professor Fleming told the court.

Surely if you are in a Ger with a fire in it then the environmental temperature around a baby is going to be significantly warmer than when surrounded by a sheet of nylon. I mean, I'm no scientist but this doesn't seem to be Prof Flemming's finest hour! JMO!

I'm shocked Fleming has been given precious and expensive court time to submit his IMO rogue ideas.

Ideally, he could have made legitimate comparisons with other couples who successfully raised babies in flimsy Argos tents on the South Downs during a bitterly cold UK winter whilst in financial deprivation and on the run. No wonder that he didn't because he couldn't.

He's made himself look like a clown IMO and extremely unprofessional and disrespectful to the other cultures and lifestyles he has mentioned.

 

[Alyce]

Prosecutor Tom Little, KC, said: 'If the baby had been born preterm is what you're saying that that is the sort of baby that would need care and assistance in hospital- let alone being taken out into the cold?'

Professor Fleming replied: 'Babies born prior to term are more vulnerable to a whole range of probabilities and babies born even a week or two early may have breathing difficulties.'

He earlier said the ductus arteriosus, a hole in the heart which connects baby to placenta, was still open in Victoria but would normally be 'functionally closed' within seven days for 99 per cent of full term babies.

He earlier said: 'I can't say the baby could not have been eight weeks but I think it's very unlikely because all the pointers suggest to me she was much younger.'

Professor Fleming today admitted it was possible that it may have been due to the decomposition of baby Victoria that the probe was able to go through the ductus arteriosus, rather than it having not functionally sealed before death.

Constance Marten's parents 'hired private investigators to find her'

The parents of aristocrat Constance Marten (pictured), 36, hired private investigators to find their daughter, a court heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Scorpiette]

https://www.bmj.com/content/355/bmj.i5724.

I found the above link interesting reading. (If the link doesn't work,Google Peter Fleming: Instigator of "Back to sleep" BMJ).

 

[Telltale]

Tbh I don't understand all this 'can babies live in tents' bollocks.

It doesn't really matter if a kid born in a refugee camp can survive without medical care. If you fail to get your kid medical care when medical care is available to you, then it's still abuse/neglect.

 

[Alyce]

Independent has a live link which I cant copy at the moment

They have reported that Prosecution will begin their closing speech today.

 

[DianaWW]

Independent has a live link which I cant copy at the moment

They have reported that Prosecution will begin their closing speech today.

Thank you for letting us know, just found the link:

Constance Marten trial: Aristocrat accused of killing newborn baby due back in court

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before retiring to consider verdicts next week

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	constance marten mark alton gordon​
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 10:25 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 11:45 - 11:06 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 11:57 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 12:30 - 12:03 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 12:36 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:00 - 12:54 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 14:11 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 15:05 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 00:00 - 15:33

www.thelawpages.com

 

[BreadnLumpit]

This case is never going to come to an end, is it?

We will all still be here, waiting for closing arguments, two years hence. Glaciers move faster than this!

 

[bobbymkii]

​

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	constance marten mark alton gordon​
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 10:25 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 11:45 - 11:06 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 11:57 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 12:30 - 12:03 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 12:36 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:00 - 12:54 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 14:11 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 15:05 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 00:00 - 15:33

www.thelawpages.com

another very productive and informative day in court!

 

[JennieM]

https://www.bmj.com/content/355/bmj.i5724.

I found the above link interesting reading. (If the link doesn't work,Google Peter Fleming: Instigator of "Back to sleep" BMJ).

If you delete the last full stop, then your link works.

 

[Alyce]

Back at 10am Monday. Maybe. Hopefully. Perhaps.





The Crown Court
at Central Criminal Court

Daily Courtroom List for Monday 15 April 2024​

FINAL 1​

---

Court 5 - sitting at 10:00 am

THE RECORDER OF LONDON​

Trial (Part Heard)

T20237104	GORDON Mark A	01MP1072723	SUSWM	CPS
	MARTEN Constance	01MP1072723

DTA, Order made under Contempt of Court Act 1981

www.courtserve.net

 

[CaptainNancy]

Tbh I don't understand all this 'can babies live in tents' bollocks.

It doesn't really matter if a kid born in a refugee camp can survive without medical care. If you fail to get your kid medical care when medical care is available to you, then it's still abuse/neglect.

And how many women live and give birth in tents by choice? If other options were available?

And what effect does it have in infant mortality?

Trying to compare the infant mortality rates amongst women giving birth in tents I came across a study of Nenet women in the Northern Russian Tundra. The study looked at women from the same people, who had had the same nomadic upbringing themselves (so similar genes and health base level) and the results on infant mortality were:
Women giving birth in nomadic settlements 6.8 %
Women giving birth while living nomadically in the tundra: 24.4%
Women who had moved into non nomadic Russian healthcare: 2.4%

This compares with 3.7% across all births in England and Wales (2021)

Not a great indication of a baby’s chances in a tent.

 

[bobbymkii]

Back at 10am Monday. Maybe. Hopefully. Perhaps.





The Crown Court
at Central Criminal Court

Daily Courtroom List for Monday 15 April 2024​

FINAL 1​

---

Court 5 - sitting at 10:00 am

THE RECORDER OF LONDON​

Trial (Part Heard)

T20237104	GORDON Mark A	01MP1072723	SUSWM	CPS
	MARTEN Constance	01MP1072723

DTA, Order made under Contempt of Court Act 1981

www.courtserve.net

God knows! It's one of the most frustrating things about being a trial ghoul in a jurisdiction with very little transparency, are you actually going to see a trial today?

It looked that way with another case I've been following recently which had its' sentencing hearing today which had very few updates all day on its' live updates page. Then suddenly, without any warning whatsoever a judge appeared on my screen live from Truro Crown Court to sentence three people live on the interwebs!

 

[Alyce]

58 minutes ago

Good morning​

We’re restarting updates on our blog this morning as we expectthe prosecution to begin summing up its evidence today in its case against Constance Marten and Mark Gordon.

Marten, 36, and her partner Mark Gordon, 49, have been accused of manslaughter after their daughter Victoria died while they were camping on the South Downs in sub-zero temperatures last January.

We’ll bring you the latest from the Old Bailey.

Constance Marten trial: Baby died at centre of ‘toxic relationship’ jury told - live

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they are expected to retire to consider their verdict this week

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

Finally.

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	Constance Marten Mark Alton Gordon​
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Summing Up - 11:39

https://www.thelawpages.com/court-hearings-lists/Central-Criminal-Court.php

 

[Henrymoggington]

I don’t know about anyone else, but despite the length of this trial, it seems somewhat vague in substance. I wonder if a lot more has been disclosed but can’t be reported until after the case? Or maybe this is just my stupidity in thinking the trail would explain more about why they lived such chaotic lives

 

[Legally Bland]

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	Constance Marten Mark Alton Gordon​
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Summing Up - 11:39 Trial (Part Heard) - Prosecution Closing Speech - 12:24

https://www.thelawpages.com/court-hearings-lists/Central-Criminal-Court.php

 

[Alyce]

Marten is an ‘utterly unreliable’ witness, prosecutor tells jury​

We’re in today’s hearing and just hearing the start of the closing remarks of prosecutor Tom Little KC.

He tells the jury he will reveal “the lies, inconsistencies and fabrications that lie at the heart of the shadow and sham defences” put forward during the trial.
Referring to Constance Marten’s evidence, he told the Old Bailey: “Lies fell from her mouth like confetti in the wind as she gave evidence.
“We suggest that the notion that she is a reliable, let alone honest, witness is risible.
“Her evidence comes with a monumental health warning. She was and is an utterly unreliable witness.”

Constance Marten trial: Baby died at centre of ‘toxic relationship’ jury told - live

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they are expected to retire to consider their verdict this week

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Maryanna]

I don’t know about anyone else, but despite the length of this trial, it seems somewhat vague in substance. I wonder if a lot more has been disclosed but can’t be reported until after the case? Or maybe this is just my stupidity in thinking the trail would explain more about why they lived such chaotic lives

If anything has been disclosed to the jury that they will find highly relevant, the reason it hasn't been reported is more likely to be that journalists weren't paying much attention, or didn't want to cover it, than a reporting ban.

To judge from what's been in the media, ISTM the crown's case is weak on all three harm charges and the perversion of the course of justice too.