UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

[iamshadow21]

John Femi-Ola KC, defending Gordon, will now deliver his closing remarks.
Mr Femi-Ola has criticised the cross examination of Dr Peter Fleming as "brutal, nasty and downright rude".
Mr Femi-Ola is now speaking about Constance Marten and her "deep, deep love for her children".

He added: "She is a strong woman. She is not a person to be pushed around by any man - she has a strong mind of her own."

Source Argus

Having a strong mind of her own resulted in the death of her child. I think that the jury won't be impressed by her strong mind.

MOO

 

[kittythehare]

Having a strong mind of her own resulted in the death of her child. I think that the jury won't be impressed by her strong mind.

MOO

Leaving that one to the jury.
The truth is that we do not know.

 

[Alyce]

From The Argus link, provided by @Nikynoo earlier

12:35pm

'This cannot be the accident suggested by Constance Marten'​

Mr Little has suggested that baby Victoria's death "cannot be the accident suggested by Constance Marten".
He added: "That is why the cramped conditions matter so much. There are hazards everywhere for that baby.






12. 38 hrs

Mr Little has finished his closing remarks.
John Femi-Ola KC, defending Gordon, will now deliver his closing remarks.

Live: Closing arguments continue in Constance Marten baby death trial

Closing arguments are set to continue in the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon today

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

12.42 hrs

Mr Femi-Ola has criticised the cross examination of Dr Peter Fleming as "brutal, nasty and downright rude".


Mr Femi-Ola is now speaking about Constance Marten and her "deep, deep love for her children".
He added: "She is a strong woman. She is not a person to be pushed around by any man - she has a strong mind of her own."

Live: Closing arguments continue in Constance Marten baby death trial

Closing arguments are set to continue in the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon today

www.theargus.co.uk

why is it that, every time FemiOla speaks, he sounds more like CMs Counsel than MGs - MOO only of course

 

[Alyce]

Baby Victoria was carried in a Lidl bag when she was still alive - prosecution​

Mr Little urges the jury not to “fall” for the defendant’s claims that they never carried the infant in a shopping bag.
He reminded the jury of two CCTV clips in which the prosecution claims Victoria must have been concealed in the bag.
This includes the moment the couple arrived in Newhaven on 8 January last year when they were captured carrying bags.

“We suggest that the baby is in the bag for life, covered just as it had been earlier,” he told the court.
Victoria’s decomposed remains were eventually found in the shopping bag by police in a disused shed.

Constance Marten trial: Aristocrat and Gordon carried baby in bag ‘while still alive’

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they retire to consider their verdict in manslaughter trial

www.independent.co.uk

 

[NWay]

38 minutes ago

What we expect to happen today​

Lead prosecutor Tom Little KC will continue his closing speech for the crown, started yesterday, before lawyers representing Constance Marten and Mark Gordon will begin to provide their own closing remarks on the defence evidence provided to the jury.


2 minutes ago

Proceedings today have just started​

We’ll bring you updates as we get them from our crime correspondent Amy-Clare Martin at the Old Bailey

Constance Marten trial: Aristocrat and Gordon carried baby in bag ‘while still alive’

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they retire to consider their verdict in manslaughter trial

www.independent.co.uk

The pair appear absolutely disconnected from reality and their children sadly pay the price. Lying is just one of the tools in their bag of tricks it seems.

Quote from yesterday's proceedings blog in above posted article:

Marten admitted she was happy to lie​

Lead prosecutor Tom Little KC reminded the jury that Marten had admitted in evidence that she was willing to lie.
During the six days of her giving evidence during the trial, she said she thought lying was OK on two occasions.
“Twice in evidence she suggested she was happy to lie to protect herself and her family and that’s precisely what she’s doing in this trial,” he told the court.
“She’s told you sometimes you have to lie.”

MOO

 

[Scorpiette]

12.42 hrs

Mr Femi-Ola has criticised the cross examination of Dr Peter Fleming as "brutal, nasty and downright rude".


Mr Femi-Ola is now speaking about Constance Marten and her "deep, deep love for her children".
He added: "She is a strong woman. She is not a person to be pushed around by any man - she has a strong mind of her own."

Live: Closing arguments continue in Constance Marten baby death trial

Closing arguments are set to continue in the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon today

www.theargus.co.uk

why is it that, every time FemiOla speaks, he sounds more like CMs Counsel than MGs - MOO only of course

I'm wondering if Femiola is making out MG was dominated by CM and just went along with her actions. This is trying to shift the blame totally onto CM and lesson the impact of possible sentencing for his client (MG)?

 

[OrangeCash]

Having a strong mind of her own resulted in the death of her child. I think that the jury won't be impressed by her strong mind.

MOO

But she has a "deep, deep love for her children" so all is forgiven, right??
A Mother's love trumps warmth, food, safety, medical care and stability... right?!
No.

MOO

 

[kittythehare]

I'm wondering if Femiola is making out MG was dominated by CM and just went along with her actions. This is trying to shift the blame totally onto CM and lesson the impact of possible sentencing for his client (MG)?

Could be.
Or it could be the truth...
Or both.

 

[Nikynoo]

why is it that, every time FemiOla speaks, he sounds more like CMs Counsel than MGs - MOO only of course

SBM - I was thinking the same.

 

[kittythehare]

But she has a "deep, deep love for her children" so all is forgiven, right??
A Mother's love trumps warmth, food, safety, medical care and stability... right?!
No.

MOO

That is not what he said.
here's the link. Live: Closing arguments continue in Constance Marten baby death trial
From the sketchy description it appears he is making a quick general statement about her.
I don't know why.
He is not representing her.

 

[missmargot]

I'm wondering if Femiola is making out MG was dominated by CM and just went along with her actions. This is trying to shift the blame totally onto CM and lesson the impact of possible sentencing for his client (MG)?

That is how I interpreted it. MG keeping quiet means the spotlight is firmly on CM and IMO Femiola is trying to ensure nobody thinks MG was pulling the strings here. MOO

 

[Alyce]

Just adding these posts from The Independent, obv from before lunch



35 minutes ago

Prosecution claims Marten lied about the date of baby’s death​

Mr Little claims that Marten had lied about the date of baby Victoria’s death.
He reminded the jury of evidence from a witness who claimed she saw the couple on a coastal path near her home in Seaford, East Sussex, between 16 and 27 January.
The same witness claimed she had heard a baby crying overnight a few days earlier.
This is at odds with the couple’s version of events – in which they allege Victoria died on 9 January and they never travelled to Seaford.
“Not only has Marten lied on practically every issue in this case but she has lied about going to Seaford and about the date of death,” he told the jury


25 minutes ago

Baby Victoria died of hypothermia, prosecution claims​

Concluding his case, Mr Little invited the jury to find the parents guilty of gross negligence manslaughter.
He said the prosecution’s primary case is that Victoria died as result of hypothermia.
He insisted Marten and Gordon’s four other children had been lawfully taken into care by a family court judge, adding: “What happened on the South Downs proves that judge right on the conduct of those parents.”
He later added: “She didn’t have enough clothing to keep herself warm and baby Victoria died as a result.”

Constance Marten trial: Aristocrat and Gordon carried baby in bag ‘while still alive’

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they retire to consider their verdict in manslaughter trial

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

13 minutes ago

Defence describes Marten as a “lioness” with deep love for her children​

Now the prosecution has ended its closing speeches, it’s the turn of the defence with John Femi-Ola KC – for Gordon – going first.
He characterised Marten as a lioness whose love for her children “overflowed”.
He admitted the pair may be described as an “unlikely couple” but challenged the prosecution’s description of Marten in their opening as “callous”.
He said the mother was a “headstrong woman” who was “steadfast” under cross examination and resolute in her “deep, deep love” for her children.
“As you watched and listened to her you may think that she’s a lioness,” he said, later referring to her children as her “cubs”.

Constance Marten trial: Aristocrat and Gordon carried baby in bag ‘while still alive’

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they retire to consider their verdict in manslaughter trial

www.independent.co.uk

 

[CaptainNancy]

It could be reasonable for someone to assume, given that private investigators have been used previously, that the persons who hired them could use them again at any time, whether they were subsequently hired or not. JMO.

Yes, but CM also said / implied in court that she thought her family were behind their numerous car breakdowns. Implying that these PIs were tampering with her vehicles!

 

[CaptainNancy]

John Femi-Ola KC, defending Gordon, will now deliver his closing remarks.
Mr Femi-Ola has criticised the cross examination of Dr Peter Fleming as "brutal, nasty and downright rude".
Mr Femi-Ola is now speaking about Constance Marten and her "deep, deep love for her children".

He added: "She is a strong woman. She is not a person to be pushed around by any man - she has a strong mind of her own."

Source Argus

However brutal, nasty etc MG's Defence found the cross examination of Fleming (who was in any case a witness called by CM's defence if I rightly recall?) it was nevertheless allowed by the judge - who allowed the Crown to ask for the jury to be removed while the parameters of Fleming's admissible opinion were sorted out.
Judges often intervene if witnesses are being treated unreasonably, and Lucraft is hardly inexperienced.

 

[kittythehare]

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon carried their baby in a Lidl bag before she died in their care, a jury at their manslaughter trial was told at the Old Bailey today.
No proof supplied to the court , no forensics, no witnesses, nothing much at all.

He said the prosecution’s primary case is that Victoria died as result of hypothermia.

No proof of this provided either.

He insisted Marten and Gordon’s four other children had been lawfully taken into care by a family court judge, adding: “What happened on the South Downs proves that judge right on the conduct of those parents.”

Cruel and unnecessary.

The same witness claimed she had heard a baby crying overnight a few days earlier.

That was a very weak witnessing IMO

Newborns are tiny..

I kept waiting for him to pull a big one out of the bag..
It never happened.

But we're just getting the tiniest of snips..

Very poor show.
I expected a loaded with excellent forensic proof presentation.

jMO

 

[kittythehare]

However brutal, nasty etc MG's Defence found the cross examination of Fleming (who was in any case a witness called by CM's defence if I rightly recall?) it was nevertheless allowed by the judge - who allowed the Crown to ask for the jury to be removed while the parameters of Fleming's admissible opinion were sorted out.
Judges often intervene if witnesses are being treated unreasonably, and Lucraft is hardly inexperienced.

That was strange, okay.

 

[Alyce]

Mr Femi-Ola says a woman can choose not to have medical care while pregnant.
"A woman can choose not to register her pregnancy, she can choose not to have antenatal care, she can choose where she gives birth," he said.
"It is her choice, it is not unlawful.

Live: Closing arguments continue in Constance Marten baby death trial

Closing arguments are set to continue in the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon today

www.theargus.co.uk

What is his point here ? CM isn't on trial for any of this.

Also wondering if he's going to get round to defending his own client at some point

 

[Alyce]

2.37 pm

Couple "fled in fear"​

Mr Femi-Ola is now talking about when the couple's car "exploded" on the M61 in January last year.
He says the couple fled in "fear" leaving £2,000 in cash, all their clothing and possessions and their cat because they were "scared" their baby would be taken away.
He says they wanted to "protect" their baby and be with her.

Live: Closing arguments continue in Constance Marten baby death trial

Closing arguments are set to continue in the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon today

www.theargus.co.uk