UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[WestLondoner]

I think the names may have been mentioned in AS, but not a lot more thaj that. DV was reported as having travelled to New Zealand for his book, but nobody from there appears as an interviewee therein. ISTR that SF was from Down Under, so it may be she went back, he found her and what she recalled didn't lead him anywhere?

 

[Eastend Eagle]

I think the names may have been mentioned in AS, but not a lot more thaj that. DV was reported as having travelled to New Zealand for his book, but nobody from there appears as an interviewee therein. ISTR that SF was from Down Under, so it may be she went back, he found her and what she recalled didn't lead him anywhere?

As I understand it, the temporary secretary was also said to be from Australia her initials said to be KR.

 

[Terryb808]

The name Kipper could hint at a targeted attack deliberately undertaken for vengeance - ie 'done up like a Kipper' or 'stitched up like a Kipper', someone who had such a personal hatred and need for overt and public revenge executed a demonic plan with no care of the consequences.

Maybe even assumed they'd get caught and didn't care such was their rage or someone without capacity to link action and consequence and disregarded the possibility of being caught?

Maybe someone who felt SJL had shafted them or double crossed them one time too many in property deals or betrayals - not saying she did any of that, just a suggestion of motive. JMO MOO

Also, re the road that IIRC was being dug up near where her car was located, did anyone actually check she wasn't in there?

That’s a good point and very probably the very reason she disappeared. Her lifestyle must have created a few suspects that fit this profile.
It’s been said previously that JC had no money to fund the purchase of top quality Suits etc and to splash out of wining & dining SJL in the way she expected.
However, that’s not true, in early 1985 his father died leaving him £2000 & and another distant relative (who I can’t name) left him £5000. Both with the idea that it would put him back on his feet.
He’s just one that perfectly fits the description you make above. He has a killer streak in him once he feels he’s been wronged.

 

[WestLondoner]

Five thousand quid was a lot of lolly in 1985. I sold a house in 1988, was able to buy another without using all the proceeds and kept back £6000. I felt seriously rich. It would be about 18 or 20 thousand today I guess.

 

[Terryb808]

Five thousand quid was a lot of lolly in 1985. I sold a house in 1988, was able to buy another without using all the proceeds and kept back £6000. I felt seriously rich. It would be about 18 or 20 thousand today I guess.

Exactly, the bulk of the money came from a Company CEO, JC must have made a very good impression on him.
The info is in the public domain if you look for it.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

JC is a perfect candidate for the kind of person who would have/could have done it, and at the same time there seems to be little or no evidence pointing solidly to him. His other attacks seem to have been much more "messy," so if he did abduct and kill Suzy he seems to have really lucked out. Which is of course possible.

Short of him confessing and leading to Suzy's body, I fear we'll never truly know.

I watched the Channel5 documentary which mentioned a Belgian "Mr. Kiper," whose dark BMW was abandoned in London at around the time of Suzy's disappearance. He had a solid alibi and was cleared of involvement, but it seems a little odd his car was abandoned like that.

Probably far-fetched, but is it at all possible someone else (JC?) was using Mr. Kiper's identity? Perhaps even his vehicle?

 

[Terryb808]

JC is a perfect candidate for the kind of person who would have/could have done it, and at the same time there seems to be little or no evidence pointing solidly to him. His other attacks seem to have been much more "messy," so if he did abduct and kill Suzy he seems to have really lucked out. Which is of course possible.

Short of him confessing and leading to Suzy's body, I fear we'll never truly know.

I watched the Channel5 documentary which mentioned a Belgian "Mr. Kiper," whose dark BMW was abandoned in London at around the time of Suzy's disappearance. He had a solid alibi and was cleared of involvement, but it seems a little odd his car was abandoned like that.

Probably far-fetched, but is it at all possible someone else (JC?) was using Mr. Kiper's identity? Perhaps even his vehicle?

Excellent point, take a look at the Oct 86 Crimewatch episode, don’t stop watching after the Suzy section, keep watching. I understand the police sometimes put two separate crime back to back when they think there might be a link.
I’ll not say anymore, let us know what you think.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Excellent point, take a look at the Oct 86 Crimewatch episode, don’t stop watching after the Suzy section, keep watching. I understand the police sometimes put two separate crime back to back when they think there might be a link.
I’ll not say anymore, let us know what you think.

The only (tenuous) link I can come up with is that the man who owned the abandoned BMW was a diamond dealer, JC was a store robber, and the episode of Crimewatch you're referring to featured the robbery of a jewellery store by a well-spoken man in a suit--just three days after Suzy's disappearance.

If the jogger who claimed to have seen Suzy on Stevenage Road in a left-hand drive BMW was telling the truth, that's notable. Most cars in the UK are right-hand drive, and BMWs were readily available in right-hand drive at the time. A left-hand drive vehicle presumably had to be either an unusual import, or originally the property of someone from mainland Europe where left-hand drive is much more common.

 

[Gravity Well]

With regards to the BMW, the first generation of the BMW M3, the E30, had just been released in March of 1986.

Importantly they were all left hand drive, even those sold officially in the UK.

Expensive and exclusive but if you’d likely to see one it would be in London.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

With regards to the BMW, the first generation of the BMW M3, the E30, had just been released in March of 1986.

Importantly they were all left hand drive, even those sold officially in the UK.

Expensive and exclusive but if you’d likely to see one it would be in London.

That's good to know. I won't even pretend to be an expert on cars, but I think the original M3 would qualify for what I called "an unusual import"? Even today M3s are pretty specialised, and I imagine they were even more specialised in 1986--bearing in mind my car knowledge is mostly taken from Top Gear.

Though JC did later own a BMW, wiki (if it can be trusted) says he owned a standard right-hand drive model E30 (not an M3). So that can't be the car Suzy was reportedly seen in, even if JC had owned it as early as July 1986.

Presumably the sightings were too vague for us to know exactly which model of BMW Suzy was seen in?

 

[Terryb808]

The only (tenuous) link I can come up with is that the man who owned the abandoned BMW was a diamond dealer, JC was a store robber, and the episode of Crimewatch you're referring to featured the robbery of a jewellery store by a well-spoken man in a suit--just three days after Suzy's disappearance.

If the jogger who claimed to have seen Suzy on Stevenage Road in a left-hand drive BMW was telling the truth, that's notable. Most cars in the UK are right-hand drive, and BMWs were readily available in right-hand drive at the time. A left-hand drive vehicle presumably had to be either an unusual import, or originally the property of someone from mainland Europe where left-hand drive is much more common.

The jewel robbery was reported to be worth £1 million back then. They were armed an gained access via the property next door. This was up for rent and you can see the estate agents sign during the reconstruction.
They needed to have reviewed the property to know only a stud partition separated it from the jewellers and that it wasn’t alarmed.
This robbery as you’ve noted happens three days after SJL disappeared, that’s a bit of a coincidence. Plus the Belgium diamond dealers name and his BMW (which he didn’t seem to be concerned about being stolen).
This has nothing to do with JC, well out of his league, but maybe SJL unwittingly helped this gang and paid the price.

 

[WiseOwl]

The whole Mr Kiper caper is explained perfectly well in AS book (pages 137 - 147).

The person who owned the car was called DR, Mr Kiper was the person who was the registered owner of the car, an elderly relative of DR. DR was not Belgian, he was an Israeli living in Antwerp, 33 years old and a diamond dealer.

The metallic blue two-litre BMW 518 was reported missing on 20 September 1986 in Knokke-Heist in Belgium. However, an english businessman called RW had noticed the abandoned car in Queens Grove, St Johns Wood in August 1986. Over the next few weeks RW became obsessed with the car, and eventually began to make enquires. In December, RW found out that the car was registered to a Mr Kiper in Belgium, remembered Suzy's case and the link to a Mr Kipper and a BMW possibly being involved, and contacted the police. After a few weeks of cutting through red tape, the police managed to interview DR in Belgium. He denied ever meeting Suzy or indeed knowing who she was.

However, he could not explain how his car came to be in London, why it was there in August but not reported missing until September and would not say how often he visited London. Also, he would not explain why the car was registered in Mr Kiper's name.

There were two main reasons however why DR was not considered a suspect.

1. DR's BMW was not the same model that RT had reported seeing in Shorrolds Road. RT had reported seeing a car that was similar to a 518 but was at least 10 years old, wheras DR's BMW was a 1980's model.

2. DR was able to produce a receipt from an Antwerp garage that showed his car was being serviced on Monday 28 July 1986 - the day Suzy disappeared. The police checked its authenticity with the garage's computer records and they confirmed the date.

Despite some mystery over the car, it doesn't look as if Suzy was involved with DR or any diamond heist.

 

[Terryb808]

The whole Mr Kiper caper is explained perfectly well in AS book (pages 137 - 147).

The person who owned the car was called DR, Mr Kiper was the person who was the registered owner of the car, an elderly relative of DR. DR was not Belgian, he was an Israeli living in Antwerp, 33 years old and a diamond dealer.

The metallic blue two-litre BMW 518 was reported missing on 20 September 1986 in Knokke-Heist in Belgium. However, an english businessman called RW had noticed the abandoned car in Queens Grove, St Johns Wood in August 1986. Over the next few weeks RW became obsessed with the car, and eventually began to make enquires. In December, RW found out that the car was registered to a Mr Kiper in Belgium, remembered Suzy's case and the link to a Mr Kipper and a BMW possibly being involved, and contacted the police. After a few weeks of cutting through red tape, the police managed to interview DR in Belgium. He denied ever meeting Suzy or indeed knowing who she was.

However, he could not explain how his car came to be in London, why it was there in August but not reported missing until September and would not say how often he visited London. Also, he would not explain why the car was registered in Mr Kiper's name.

There were two main reasons however why DR was not considered a suspect.

1. DR's BMW was not the same model that RT had reported seeing in Shorrolds Road. RT had reported seeing a car that was similar to a 518 but was at least 10 years old, wheras DR's BMW was a 1980's model.

2. DR was able to produce a receipt from an Antwerp garage that showed his car was being serviced on Monday 28 July 1986 - the day Suzy disappeared. The police checked its authenticity with the garage's computer records and they confirmed the date.

Despite some mystery over the car, it doesn't look as if Suzy was involved with DR or any diamond heist.

As you say there a lot about this in AS’s book and in the media of the time.
DR seems to have not answered an awful lot of important police questions. Plus there’s no evidence as to where Suzy went when she left the office and why she choose to put the Mr Kipper appointment in her desk diary.
So nothing (no matter how unlikely) can really be ruled out.
Some believe Suzy went:
1. To the PoW pub.
2. Others that she actually went to Shorrolds Road.
3. And Detective Barley that she went straight to Stevenage Road.
All are valid theories, but there’s no concrete evidence to support any of them.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

The whole Mr Kiper caper is explained perfectly well in AS book (pages 137 - 147).

The person who owned the car was called DR, Mr Kiper was the person who was the registered owner of the car, an elderly relative of DR. DR was not Belgian, he was an Israeli living in Antwerp, 33 years old and a diamond dealer.

The metallic blue two-litre BMW 518 was reported missing on 20 September 1986 in Knokke-Heist in Belgium. However, an english businessman called RW had noticed the abandoned car in Queens Grove, St Johns Wood in August 1986. Over the next few weeks RW became obsessed with the car, and eventually began to make enquires. In December, RW found out that the car was registered to a Mr Kiper in Belgium, remembered Suzy's case and the link to a Mr Kipper and a BMW possibly being involved, and contacted the police. After a few weeks of cutting through red tape, the police managed to interview DR in Belgium. He denied ever meeting Suzy or indeed knowing who she was.

However, he could not explain how his car came to be in London, why it was there in August but not reported missing until September and would not say how often he visited London. Also, he would not explain why the car was registered in Mr Kiper's name.

There were two main reasons however why DR was not considered a suspect.

1. DR's BMW was not the same model that RT had reported seeing in Shorrolds Road. RT had reported seeing a car that was similar to a 518 but was at least 10 years old, wheras DR's BMW was a 1980's model.

2. DR was able to produce a receipt from an Antwerp garage that showed his car was being serviced on Monday 28 July 1986 - the day Suzy disappeared. The police checked its authenticity with the garage's computer records and they confirmed the date.

Despite some mystery over the car, it doesn't look as if Suzy was involved with DR or any diamond heist.

Thank you. I haven't read AS book and absolutely none of what you've said was included in the Channel5 documentary I watched. Go figure. All the documentary says is that the car was abandoned near the time of SJL's disappearance, and that the detectives travelled to Belgium to interview "Mr Kiper", who was cleared of involvement. If they actually interviewed DR, not Mr Kiper, then the documentary got that wrong--or perhaps more likely, the makers were trying to craft a narrative.

 

[WestLondoner]

The number and type of BMWs seems to keep proliferating. While it's possible that a high end BMW 3 series was seen, it's surely just as likely that the car was an old shape LHD model someone was driving which because the wheel was on the wrong side of the car, was cheaper to buy. Meanwhile, the car found abandoned in NW8 was a 5-series, not a 3-series, and the witness who reckons he saw a BMW in Shorrolds and was a bit of a car buff seems to have been describing a 70s-vintage 1602 or 2002.

There seems no reason to think any of these sightings is of the same car. It is quite possible that all of these were seen. What I'd like to understand is when these reports came in, and in particular, what if anything was done to identify drivers / keepers of LHD BMWs and of 1602 / 2002s - which would not have involved tracing all that many cars.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

This is why, despite it being a big deal here in the UK, I've never really followed Suzy's case beyond the basics.

Nothing really seems to give any answers. It might be this type of BMW or it might be that type of BMW. It might have been seen in this location or that location, at this time of day or that time of day. Suzy might have been in it or she might not have been. Her white Fiesta might have been parked on Stevenage Road since 12:45pm or she might have been driving it on Fulham Palace Road at 2:45pm. She might have been seen on Shorrolds or she might not have been. She might have gone to the PoW or she might not have. She might have been seen arguing with a man on the street, in her Fiesta, AND in the BMW, or she might not have been seen arguing with anyone at all.

Which ultimately gets you a grand total of... nowhere.

 

[Terryb808]

This is why, despite it being a big deal here in the UK, I've never really followed Suzy's case beyond the basics.

Nothing really seems to give any answers. It might be this type of BMW or it might be that type of BMW. It might have been seen in this location or that location, at this time of day or that time of day. Suzy might have been in it or she might not have been. Her white Fiesta might have been parked on Stevenage Road since 12:45pm or she might have been driving it on Fulham Palace Road at 2:45pm. She might have been seen on Shorrolds or she might not have been. She might have gone to the PoW or she might not have. She might have been seen arguing with a man on the street, in her Fiesta, AND in the BMW, or she might not have been seen arguing with anyone at all.

Which ultimately gets you a grand total of... nowhere.

You’re spot on, as I’ve said before there’s absolutely no evidence for any of the things you highlighted above.
SJL left the office lunchtime, her car was found in Stevenage Road at 10.03pm and she was never seen again.
The police focus wasn’t on SJL’s disappearance, from their point of view she was an adult and she probably turn up with the next 24 hours.
Because of this the police lost vital time and many witnesses may not have come forward.
As I understand it (IIRC) before the TV appeal no one came forward saying SJL had been in Shorrolds Road apart from HR.
That demonstrates the problem really.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

As I understand it, the temporary secretary was also said to be from Australia her initials said to be KR.

Kathleen Reidy, are you out there?

 

[Eastend Eagle]

James Calvert?

 

[Eastend Eagle]

Marc Guerdon?

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