VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #12

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This particular statute appends a specific mental state to the above definition, that of the abductor doing the abduction with the intent to defile (commit rape, carnal knowledge, sodomy, object sexual penetration) or to place a child under 16 into prostitution.

The act of the abduction isn’t necessarily actually transporting the victim, and it would seem that the abductor could simply “deprive that person [the victim] of liberty” in the exact same spot where they met. The abductor can even transport the purported victim to an isolated location without any apparent protest from the victim. The prosecution must then prove the abductor’s mental state, i.e. the abductor took the victim to the other place for the purpose of being able to commit his sex crime without fear of being caught.

A specific example of “abduction with the intent to defile”: The abductor observes somebody at a convenience store in the process of shoplifting. The abductor approaches the victim and pretends to be store security, then transports the victim to an isolated location and commits a rape.

Abuction with Intent to Defile is a Class 2 Felony, punishable 20 years to life in prison and/or a fines of up to $100,000. This punishment would be in addition to the jury’s recommended punishment for the underlying sex offense, i.e. rape, carnal knowledge, sodomy, object sexual penetration). This offense can pertain to victims who are either an adult or a juvenile

The most horrible thing about this statute is that it can tack 20 years of minimum-mandatory prison onto what may have been a relatively-low jury sentence for the sex offense. For example, I once had a jury for a rape in one jurisdiction which found my client guilty and gave him 5 years of prison time, the absolute minimum sentence. Then, the second jury in the jurisdiction from which the victim was abducted found him guilty of the abduction and had to give him the 20 years minimum mandatory.

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What's horrible about the statute? I'm not a fan of rape. Or abduction.

I am curious, if this charge could be based on something a witness at tempo saw or overheard, or was told by the suspect after seeing him leave with an obviously inebriated HG.

Call me overly cautious, but I don't think they have anything more than this at the moment. If there was DNA, I would expect some acknowledgement of that. Not of course to the point where they reveal what DNA evidence they have or where it was located, naturally. I just find this odd.

That said. I don't doubt for a second that LE is sure this is their perp, or that these tactics will not only bring him in but also lead to finding HG. We'll just have to wait and see.

Those of us who obsess over these case and have for years know that it is not unusual for LE to refuse to give out specific evidence in advance of trial, before an arrest even.

Forgot to say...I am new..from TN and ANOTHER atty. thanks everyone for all the input these past few days. For whatever reason it has been a catharsis...

Welcome!!!!!! Stick around if you can.

Vulnerable, alone, pretty, young girl running with no buddies at 1am.............spells target. JMO

Not for sex trafficking. Not unless she was a runaway.

Could he be charged with abduction just by walking with her if a witness says she was in distress?

No.


Not one of the links you provided include the sex trafficking of middle class white adult women. It's all street kids and immigrants.

Hannah does not fit the profile of a person who has been trafficked into sex slavery or whatever.
 
And they never promised/are under no obligation to talk to the public about them :(.

Not holding my breath.

My family has been working with the FBI for nearly 28 years in my sister Cathy and her friend Rebecca Dowski's deaths as part of the Colonial Parkway Murders in Virginia. Trust me, laws enforcement will not likely announce the results of any forensics testing to the public, not before all charges have been filed, an arrest made, a trial, and possible conviction. And maybe not even then.

Bill Thomas
 
:loveyou: To our Mod/s tonight -> THANK YOU! THANK YOU! It's not even Halloween and the trolls are out in full force! :blowkiss:
 
Do they have JM's DNA? They may have found DNA that they believe is his and perhaps it matches something of interest (e.g. DNA from another case). But, I think they need to get a DNA sample directly from him (or something they observe him in contact with) to prove it is his DNA.

I believe 18.2-48 is a DNA Qualified Felony in VA - meaning they can collect DNA at the time of arrest (no conviction required).

Just throwing this out there.

excellent points
 
i generally agree although i know of one (these a discovery id on it) and have heard of it happening to a few other BUT none of them are upper middle class college students that have made straight As for six years in a row. The all had thing in there lives that made them especially vulnerable run aways, drugs, blah blah blah.

They are girls who live on the fringe of society who no one notices/cares/ or suspects foul play if gone. One woman held as a sex slave had an abductor who wrote her family (as if he were her) and told them she went to rehab and to not contact her. The rehab would neither confirm nor deny her admittance.

IMO, "this" is not "that"
 
imo, most likely JM didn't return to his apartment that night- he had 2 roommates, right?
 
Yes. I know of these cases and I have read this. I am not convinced we are there yet. This should never prevent LE from following their course and working their case. You are of the opinion that this is where this case is leading, yes? I am not convinced this is where it is heading. MOO.

That is not my opinion at all, but I'm not closing out the possibility. It may be your opinion, however your question of "If LE is being reckless it will never pass muster in a trial, will it?" is why I have linked the article. There is nothing to say it won't pass muster, because there are several cases in the past where reckless LE has led to convictions.
 
Forensics report could also mean that a drug they found was confirmed by the lab to be a date rape drug. I think the theory that they have something proving she got in his car and then found that type of drug in his possession could very well lead to this charge. Jmo.
 
Thank you for taking the time to update me

I have to come in late at times and I appreciate not having to scroll back when there has been an obvious development.
 
My family has been working with the FBI for nearly 28 years in my sister Cathy and her friend Rebecca Dowski's deaths as part of the Colonial Parkway Murders in Virginia. Trust me, laws enforcement will not likely announce the results of any forensics testing to the public, not before all charges have been filed, an arrest made, a trial, and possible conviction. And maybe not even then.

Bill Thomas

I'm glad to see you here, Bill. I read a comment post by you today (I think from 2012) on a different forum. I think you can add helpful insight.
 
What's horrible about the statute? I'm not a fan of rape. Or abduction.
<snipped>

That's a quote (the part about it being horrible) from a web page ostensibly belonging to a lawyer - I found it from a Google search of that charge as well.

Here's what I'm finding to help me understand what the charge means: https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/leg...00+cod+18.2-48

I *think* I'm finding that "intent to defile" likely has a lesser burden of proof and is more inclusive than something like a rape charge. If you scroll to the relevant spot on this page (http://www.rgmorganlaw.com/sexcrimes.html) it goes more into definitions of abduction and intent to defile, essentially it reads as though intent to defile includes rape but also includes other sexual acts/ crimes.

I'm not sure about that second source (it's the one that has the "horrible" statement), so here's the actual code that defines abduction: https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/leg...00+cod+18.2-47

ETA: I couldn't find anything that clearly defined the scope of "intent to defile"
 
Hannah Graham Case: New Charges for Suspect in UVA Student Case

Police have announced new charges against a man seen in a surveillance video with missing University of Virginia student Hannah Graham. The suspect Jesse Matthew, 32, was the last person to see Graham, 18, before she vanished early on Sept. 13.

At a press conference on Tuesday evening, Charlottesville Police Chief Timothy Longo said they are charging Matthew with abduction with the intent to defile. A warrant was obtained for his arrest on those charges earlier Tuesday afternoon, Longo said.

Previously, Matthew was considered as a person of interest in the case but was wanted on reckless driving charges for speeding away from a Charlottesville police station Saturday after a brief interview by investigators...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hannah-graham-case-new-charges-suspect-uva-student-case-n210141
 
Those of us who obsess over these case and have for years know that it is not unusual for LE to refuse to give out specific evidence in advance of trial, before an arrest even.

Yes, I realize this. Certainly there are also cases, Casey Anthony comes to mind, where too much was released too soon.
 
Forensics report could also mean that a drug they found was confirmed by the lab to be a date rape drug. I think the theory that they have something proving she got in his car and then found that type of drug in his possession could very well lead to this charge. Jmo.

IMO they would've charged him with possession of that drug as well..but they could be waiting for further testing to do so. JMO
 
My family has been working with the FBI for nearly 28 years in my sister Cathy and her friend Rebecca Dowski's deaths as part of the Colonial Parkway Murders in Virginia. Trust me, laws enforcement will not likely announce the results of any forensics testing to the public, not before all charges have been filed, an arrest made, a trial, and possible conviction. And maybe not even then.

Bill Thomas

Thanks, Bill. Needed more than the button.
 
Re: Jessie Matthews

I saw on NG a few days ago the pictures of, I think, 5 girls who all disappeared around the same area.

Now that we see the primary suspect in this case is Black, does it strike anyone that all 5 of these cases might be linked (as I believe 2 of the victims were also Black). We see previously that LE has said there is nothing to link them together, I think they are mainly saying that because some of the victims were Black and some were White.

I dunno but all of this is very creepy. Praying for Hannah, but unfortunately I doubt she will be alive at this point. Praying for her family.
bbm, I'm not following the logic?

What's horrible about the statute? I'm not a fan of rape. Or abduction.



Those of us who obsess over these case and have for years know that it is not unusual for LE to refuse to give out specific evidence in advance of trial, before an arrest even.



Welcome!!!!!! Stick around if you can.



Not for sex trafficking. Not unless she was a runaway.



No.



Not one of the links you provided include the sex trafficking of middle class white adult women. It's all street kids and immigrants.

Hannah does not fit the profile of a person who has been trafficked into sex slavery or whatever.
Amy Bradley?
 
Well since jm takes folks to surgery etc he may have or know of knock out drugs.
 
Perhaps that is the type of crime WG was watching for and he actually was undercover LE. That would explain why he quickly walked away when HG seemed to be friends with JM. In an obscure way that could provide hope that HG is still alive. JM could be the "strong arm recruiter" and might have turned her over to someone else. I know that is a an unlikely scenario, but I certainly would like to have some hope that HG could be found. My heart breaks for her family. jmoo

MOO
While I wasn't in the "WG did it" camp, I thought WG might well be intrigued by an attractive, drunk, disoriented woman in a (legal) opportunity-knocks kind of way. When WG sees JM take charge of the situation, he thinks someone else has grabbed the opportunity and leaves the field. I felt this was close to the story WG told, but a little more likely than a "white knight" interpretation.
MOO
 
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