VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #13

[snarkymalarkey]

I really don't think she was "lost" - she beelined downtown. It don't understand why she went to McGrady's...but I believe she wanted to go there (it's pretty isolated), and she must have wanted to go downtown after that.

Maybe she was "confused" and didn't have great reasons for going to these places? But...based on her route, I don't see evidence she was lost.

When you watch the McGrady video, if her goal was to be downtown... Why do you think that she was filmed walking away from downtown? She was walking towards campus.

Why do you think she then circled around the patio, walked off for two minutes and then walked to that little street. If you notice she stops for a period of time after she makes her circle, and then goes back the way she came. She had just come from that direction, and then she turned and went back!

If she wanted to walk downtown, why not just walk straight downtown? Where do you think was she coming from when she got to McGradys?

 

[Phoebeb]

Can we post things that we've heard through a "friend of a friend?"

I sure hope so! As long as you preface it with: this is from friend of a friend, but I'm not sure, I hope so

 

[bakerlady]

Is the trolley stop at the Tempo end of the mall? I keep speculating she could have been heading to a trolley stop to get back home...

The trolley doesn't run that late.

 

[Bravo]

What evidence do you think they have that establishes probable cause for intent to defile? (not just evidence or forensic evidence, but evidence of a crime?)

Can you list some likely examples?

Otherwise, is your confidence based solely on your belief in the integrity and procedures of LE?

I know you didn't direct this to me however thought I might jump in. IMO it's not just faith in LE. There are a whole host of others involved in getting to where we are today with the charges. LE including FBI. Judges who sign warrants. SA who increased the charges based on evidence. The evidence could be a whole host of things. Rape kit. Evidence Hannah was in the trunk. Blood evidence. Torn clothing. I don't think it's any one thing but the sum of it all. IMO

 

[Le Singe]

If I understand what you are saying, no. They would have already had probable cause for the round 2 search warrant even without results that just came back.

disregard quoted the wrong post 100 pardons

 

[katiewonders]

DavidC, that was before he knew the cops had the goods on him -- back when he told them HG wasn't in his car.

But he'd show up at the police station for legal advice?

Quote Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio View Post

Probably because he raped and murdered someone....but thats just my opinion.

 

[Justice101]

If he pleads not guilty, refuses to say a word, no body found, his chances are probably better that he is not convicted, particularly of Murder 1, depending on what forensic evidence is found. THough yes, it's possible, it's more difficult to get a murder conviction without the body. THe Alexis Murphy case did turn out that way, but there was a lot of evidence, and Randy Taylor talked ... a lot, and most of it proven outright as lies. If JM just stays quiet, lets his attorney do the talking, he can save some face with friends and family by later telling them his version of what happened which may not have certain detils. Like he picked her up, they went out, they got cozy, she got upset and wanted out, so he let her out, and that was the last he saw of her, and then he finds out she went missing and as a black man in a southern town, a townie, being with a white UVA student, he panicked and was scared to death realizing he could have no proof if she didn't show up, and he was hoping she would.

Just a quick run down of a sample story.

A lot of times, it comes down to being able to stick to a story that those you care about can swallow and hang on to, not one that will pan out if you tell the authorities, because, frankly, it many not be the truth. There are loved ones of criminals who believe with all of their hears what they've been told, some despite evidence to the contrary blaring in their faces, but some can have such stories without direct debuttals because the court, LE never got to hear the stories to debunk them, and so it stands on record. The jury could choose to reject LE's, the state's evidence and version of what happened to the defense's supporsitions and possibilities. Remember, the defendent is innocent until proven guilty, does not have to say a word, tell his story, do anything. Just let his attorney tear up the prosecution's theories, poke holes in the evidence, and not offer a thing in return. You get off, or a short dealt sentence and you tell everyone the "real story" that you knew would not be believed and that your attorney said just to keep under wraps.

That is also the case for some events that you can't prove even though it's the truth, and you just aren't sharp enough to take the questioning of a prosecutor tearing it to shreds, true or not.

Sort of like in Shawshank Redemption..."everyone is here is innocent"... just ask them.

 

[Le Singe]

Seems if there was DNA the Wanted poster would look a little different, just sayin.

how so?

 

[lateott]

didn't she say the trolley doesn't run late?

Nope, I think Wahoo123 provided that info and UVA confirmed.

I'm really grateful to hear 1st hand experiences from those who walk the same sidewalks, especially a current student.

 

[ToodieWorm]

New (ish) here...has anyone wondered about the comment that the Grandma (I believe) made about JM living with his girlfriend but she didn't know what happened to her? I wonder what that time frame was - I mean did they recently live together? Was it a year ago?

 

[Phoebeb]

No, that would be considered rumor. Sorry.

ETA: Members who see rumors posted in threads are expected to ALERT on them. If you're not alerting, you're part of the problem. Making jokes about rumors is neither amusing, nor helpful to the discussion.

That's too bad since there may be some important info that can't be linked or verified. Oh well...

 

[Dogkarma]

The trolley doesn't run that late.

What about the UVA bus system? It has been a while but I know it ran down 14th street until pretty late on weekends....I realize it does not go downtown. I'm just asking what the deal with it is today.

 

[ninij9]

I keep sifting the sand, unable to conclude that JM is hiding something. I would agree, his current behavior, after being questioned, didn't work in his favor. Wish both LE and JM handled that much differently. I think Longo's 'posturing' in the PC, created a contentions atmosphere. It backfired. But of JM concealing evidence? Not so much.

- Look through the windows of his car, to the interior. It's a mess. He definitely didn't take a fire hose to the interior, to scrub potential evidence.

- He parked his car in plain view. He could have ditched it, at a family member's house, with the excuse that it is not running, and he can't afford to repair it now. But there it was, in the apartment parking lot.

- He could have hung out at granny's house, for a very long time, and feigned ill health. He did not. Was found in his apartment.

I will be the first to eat a slice of humble pie, if JM is the man. Right now - I'm just not able to see that. Rather, I worry that HG was so overly confident, she set out AGAIN, on foot, only to be overtaken or picked up by someone else at that bewitching hour. Let's face it, does anything good come of being on the street, alone - at nearly 2am in the morning, when the bars disgorge their patrons? And consider the area in which Tempo is located. I would be hard pressed to go there at that late hour. I am considering that HG thought she would be safer, walking on the street (street lights, cars passing, etc.), than accepting a ride from anyone. Previous cases have shown us that it takes mere seconds, for a person to be grabbed from the sidewalk, and pulled into a waiting car. Guess I will continue to sit on the fence for a while.

I have a lot of the same misgivings. Except for the part where JM won't turn himself in or answer questions. I am on the fence and my toe has touched both yards at different times.

 

[DavidC]

I disagree. I don't think Jesse had any way of knowing where police were in their investigation. If he did this crime he took an awful big risk going to the police station. Jesse doesn't strike me as some kind of sinister, tactical mastermind. He strikes me as a big dopey kid who likes to chase girls.

DavidC, that was before he knew the cops had the goods on him -- back when he told them HG wasn't in his car.






Quote Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio View Post

Probably because he raped and murdered someone....but thats just my opinion.

 

[snarkymalarkey]

how so?

My guess is that the "reason" he is "Wanted" would be for a charge that was more substantial than a charge that could be brought against him without DNA.

 

[lateott]

DavidC, that was before he knew the cops had the goods on him -- back when he told them HG wasn't in his car.

I haven't seen any indication that he said such a thing to LE. His Grandmother said he told his mother, but that is about it.

 

[Wahoo123]

What about the UVA bus system? It has been a while but I know it ran down 14th street until pretty late on weekends....I realize it does not go downtown. I'm just asking what the deal with it is today.

Yeah, the UVA busses would be running (the ones around 14th/Rugby, at least)

 

[Tugela]

Yes, thank you, I should have used incapacitated, but unfortunately, in cases where this is an issue to their is no clear distinguishing point of being too intoxicated to consent whereas other alcohol related crimes rely on BAC. In this case, I think being drunk to the point friends noticed and then disorientated and lost shows she wasn't capable of making safe choices. JMO.

I think you pretty much would have to have evidence that someone was falling down drunk or incoherent to sustain a consent charge. Mostly that would come from witnesses, or video if that was around (people often take video of people they know making fools of themselves, for example). Not making safe choices isn't the criteria, it is the ability to make choices at all, that is what counts. Even after a few drinks you probably are going to make unwise choices (alcohol has that effect), but you would still be responsible for them.

In this case I don't see anything to support an incapacitated claim. It sounds like she was drunk, but still capable of making decisions.

 

[helpfindhannah]

The trolley doesn't run that late.

1132pm is the last stop near the mall.
http://www.charlottesville.org/Index.aspx?page=3625

 

[skibaboo]

Can we post things that we've heard through a "friend of a friend?"

I sure hope so! As long as you preface it with: this is from friend of a friend, but I'm not sure, I hope so

Bumping the answer to this question

No, that would be considered rumor. Sorry.

ETA: Members who see rumors posted in threads are expected to ALERT on them. If you're not alerting, you're part of the problem. Making jokes about rumors is neither amusing, nor helpful to the discussion.