**Verdict watch weekend discussion thread** 3/3-4/2012

[cody100]

The hush puppy witness who said they shoes in the pic are "consistent with" hush puppy orbitals was in CYA mode. He wasn't going to use more direct language because he couldn't be sure they were indeed hush puppy orbitals or the HPs in question.

What shoes did JY say he was wearing? Was he asked that when he testified?

Most definitely, he was in CYA mode. I think he might have used the words "could be" or "consistent." I think what he is saying is the rounded toes would be consistent with HP orbitals. I believe that to truly be consistent in the forensic definition more than just the shape of the toe would be needed to confirm that this is a HP shoe.

I don't remember JY being asked that when he testified. It would have been a good question.

 

[Grammy Jean]

No speculation at all !!

This is what it said, and I have posted this over and over.

The search warrant was issued because:

"Due to the situation with the child's bloodied footprints vs. the clean condition of the child's feet, when found,the confusion over the keys to the decedent's vehicle and how they came to be placed on the kitchen table, and MF's keys being found on the on the hood of the decedent's vehicle, it is believed that the 2000
Silver Lexus RX 300 could have been used to transport the child from the scene.
If this was the case, there may have been transference of blood from the scene to the vehicle using the child for conveyance"

So you have said you still believe someone took CY out for a comforting drive in MY's car. We know since they did a search of that car there was no blood from the scene. So how would you explain that? Are you saying you now still think because of MF's keys you think she was involved????

 

[Grammy Jean]

Most definitely, he was in CYA mode. I think he might have used the words "could be" or "consistent." I think what he is saying is the rounded toes would be consistent with HP orbitals. I believe that to truly be consistent in the forensic definition more than just the shape of the toe would be needed to confirm that this is a HP shoe.

I don't remember JY being asked that when he testified. It would have been a good question.

I agree Cody it would have been an excellent question and it wasn't asked during the first trial. I remember JTF saying BH should have been fired for not asking it. Well. DT did not give her a chance to ask it this trial grrr.

 

[Madeleine74]

Yes, and all on the same night that a security camera is tampered with twice at the hotel where JY was staying. How is even believable that these incidents are not related??

Yep those pesky "just coincidences."

So we have separate killers (maybe up to 10 or more?) who each left one finger print in the Young house. They all, individually, entered the home at the same time, without needing to use any force to enter the home, and committed the murder. But none of them touched more than one or 2 items the entire time. A couple of them made sure to touch papers laying on the printer in the office. Another one made sure to touch the top of the Tylenol Rapid Blast bottle in CY's room. One of them might have even run the vacuum upstairs, but missed one step (thoughtless). None of these people have ever had their fingerprints put in a LE database, so that's helpful!

Then we have a mystery hotel camera tamperer (and perhaps 2--one who only unplugs cameras and the other who only moves cameras to point at the ceiling), both staying at the same HI as JY the night his wife was murdered. Both were fixated on the same camera, covering the same west exit door that got propped by (two I guess) people. Convenient!

We also have a mystery door propper who likes and uses rocks or landscaping lava rocks to prop a door, staying in the same hotel the night as JY also props the same door but with a twig. I guess that person either knows or approves of the camera-moving mystery peeps.

All these various mystery people were able to keep themselves from being on camera on 11/2/06 - 11/3/06, so to add to the list, they have the power of invisibility!

The mystery HI peeps obviously stole JY's dark pullover, pants, and rounded toe shoes so that those items could not be found ever again. Boo. Not nice!

 

[cody100]

I think so, but here I don't think it means much because he was looking at a grainy photo where the shoes can barely be made out.

I think prosecution asked a couple other questions about square toe/other attributes and had him confirm those, which made the shoe "consistent with" the same attributes of HP orbitals, but I don't think we can take that as anywhere near certainty that JY was wearing the HPs in those pics.

Basically the square or round toe is a class characteristic meaning that shape is one of many class characteristics that would be used to compare two objects or to describe an object. To conclusively use the word characteris or consistent would require other characteristics to be identified. With that grainy pic, I could not say more than it has a rounded toe which means it has at least one characteristic of the HP Orbital shoe. Hope this helps.

 

[Cammy]

She also said that the weeks leading up to the murder that MY had completely withdrawn and she was not at all responding to any efforts by SS to draw out of her what was going on with her.

That, to me, sounds like something beyond anything SS had experienced with MY in the past.

ETA: let's also not forget that for a very long period of time that SS and MY were friends, MY was dating JY and then married to him. SS's observation of MY having a sad side to her could have stemmed all along from her relationship with JY. It is clear to me from the testimony that his infidelities and verbal abuse of her went back long before they were married. Their own friends thought they were headed towards breaking up, not getting married.

IMO

Shelly Schaad testified to MY having a sad side to her, long before she met Jason Young.

 

[borndem]

avoiOriginally Posted by Talina
There wasn't a trial. He did not respond to the lawsuit being filed so by default, he was found guilty.

He didn't even bother to file any response at all!!!

I wonder why. But I guess that fits with his behaviour after the crime. His not talking to LE, not taking the insurance money, not fighting for his daughter. It seems almost self destructive to me. jmo

Well, he was trying to save his own hiney -- he had to just take his licks on the $4 million insurance and testifying in his own defense for the WD suit.

Money vs. avoiding chance of going to trial/prison.... pick one and only one.


Yes, this was what it boiled down to.

 

[ndrew]

I am saying that after the murder happened, and if CY was crying and upset ,
that someone could have taken her from the home, take her fro a drive to calm her down.

That would also explain the car sightings with a car similiar, if not, the same as Michelle's.

In Michelle's car was CY's carseat.

The other person stayed behind and cleaned up, and when CY was brought back, the 2 people left the house together..

You may not understand the logic, but apparently LE did because they also thought CY was taken from the home, and issued a s/warrant for Michelle's Lexus.

Hope this helps.

Cammy I followed 98% of the first trial and only about 80% of the second trial so I don't have all the facts of this case. Was it stated in court that the Lexus was searched because LE thought CY was in that car the night of MY murder or could they have had other reasons to want to search the Lexus. Thanks for your help.

 

[heidisams]

Imo, the y's are such deceitful people. The humidor showing up in this trial is just plain manipulation, and it shows how far these people will go to get what they want. There is such a thing as having limits and boundaries, of which, none of the y's possess. The shoes and sweater go missing, but knock offs of them appear later. That makes me sick, especially when jy appears in the (staged) photo at cy's b-day party with the knock off sweater on. Once again, jy and py's little pawn comes in handy! It's not enough cy was witness to the brutal death of her mom, and left scared sh'+less for hours and hours all alone, but her own father purposely involved her in her mother's murder! They used that little girl's b-day party as an excuse to put jy on display, and made darn sure he and his sweater were front and center in her b-day pic. LF and MF, and other members of the Fisher family, were at this b-day party too! They had asked the y's if they could have a separate party for her, and of course, the manipulating, cruel, and controlling y's said no! So, the F's went to Brevard. And this is when he wears the sweater! I'm betting the F's knew the description of the missing sweater, and if so, that is such a slap in the face!!! Even worse, the y's probably took pleasure in this... Kind of like, "you're never gonna get us, we're way too smart for you!" He probably had the knock off hp's on as well... oooooohhh I PRAY they find him guilty tomorrow!!!!!

All JMO

 

[Grammy Jean]

Basically the square or round toe is a class characteristic meaning that shape is one of many class characteristics that would be used to compare two objects or to describe an object. To conclusively use the word characteris or consistent would require other characteristics to be identified. With that grainy pic, I could not say more than it has a rounded toe which means it has at least one characteristic of the HP Orbital shoe. Hope this helps.

Ok but doesn't it help you to lean a little to G side when you see even in grainy pic. he has on a round toed shoe and that shoe was never recovered and JY went out days later and bought a round toed shoe that looked like the round toed shoe in the grainy pic. Doesn't that mean a reasonable person could conclude something happened to those round toed shoes from the time he was pictured in them and when he returned to Raleigh, and JY got rid of those round toed shoes. Does that help you budge a little?

 

[borndem]

Yes, he is really a sociopath....textbook.
Not only that, they sometimes lose their cool and bludgeon people to death.

Hmmmm, Fax, sociopath..... Seems to me I remember another one.... Oh yeah, Ted Bundy. I think he, too, had been known to lose his temper from time to time ..... and something else..... oh yeah, didn't he kidnap, rape and strangle or bludgeon to death about 25 women??

 

[Cammy]

Cammy I followed 98% of the first trial and only about 80% of the second trial so I don't have all the facts of this case. Was it stated in court that the Lexus was searched because LE thought CY was in that car the night of MY murder or could they have had other reasons to want to search the Lexus. Thanks for your help.

I would think for 2 reasons, the one for the theory of CY being transported in, and the second, because Michelle's car closely matches the description given by Mrs. Beaver and Ms. Hensley of cars they testified to seeing at the Young home at 5:30 am and 6:15 am.

Hi, btw.

 

[SteelerGirl43]

Imo, the y's are such deceitful people. The humidor showing up in this trial is just plain manipulation, and it shows how far these people will go to get what they want. There is such a thing as having limits and boundaries, of which, none of the y's possess. The shoes and sweater go missing, but knock offs of them appear later. That makes me sick, especially when jy appears in the (staged) photo at cy's b-day party with the knock off sweater on. Once again, jy and py's little pawn comes in handy! It's not enough cy was witness to the brutal death of her mom, and left scared sh'+less for hours and hours all alone, but her own father purposely involved her in her mother's murder! They used that little girl's b-day party as an excuse to put jy on display, and made darn sure he and his sweater were front and center in her b-day pic. LF and MF, and other members of the Fisher family, were at this b-day party too! They had asked the y's if they could have a separate party for her, and of course, the manipulating, cruel, and controlling y's said no! So, the F's went to Brevard. And this is when he wears the sweater! I'm betting the F's knew the description of the missing sweater, and if so, that is such a slap in the face!!! Even worse, the y's probably took pleasure in this... Kind of like, "you're never gonna get us, we're way too smart for you!" He probably had the knock off hp's on as well... oooooohhh I PRAY they find him guilty tomorrow!!!!!

All JMO

I'm praying they come back with a not guilty. ..

 

[Cammy]

I'm praying they come back with a not guilty. ..

Make that 2 of us......

Man, I would not give in for a second if I was on the Jury.

Too much reasonable doubt and no motive.

I don't know if you know this, but as late as last Nov,
the state was still getting search warrants to check into
their financial affairs.

Desperate, or what?

:seeya: tomorrow, SG43,

Hope Mr. SG43 is okay from his shoe experiment!!

 

[Grammy Jean]

Ok night all I need to get some sleep and wait nervously tomorrow to see if there will be a verdict. I really want justice to be done. As much as JY is a low life,wife cheater dic-trick performer sex talking scum. IMO jerk and imp are way too mild in describing him. With all that being said if he is truly innocent I would not want to see him go to jail for life. However, I can not look at all this evidence and not believe he is truly guilty. I pray for this jury and that justice will be served.

 

[cody100]

Ok but doesn't it help you to lean a little to G side when you see even in grainy pic. he has on a round toed shoe and that shoe was never recovered and JY went out days later and bought a round toed shoe that looked like the round toed shoe in the grainy pic. Doesn't that mean a reasonable person could conclude something happened to those round toed shoes from the time he was pictured in them and when he returned to Raleigh, and JY got rid of those round toed shoes. Does that help you budge a little?

LOL, GJ, I think the pic is too grainy. I can tell the shoe toe is round, but that is it. It makes me suspicious. Maybe if I were there with all of the evidence and could see everything laid out.

 

[hindsight2020]

Odds are better for a Vegas Jackpot than a NG verdict, possible but not probable, however, a hung jury is more likely. . . . . . . . .g'nite all.

 

[Elisaa444]

Yep those pesky "just coincidences."

So we have separate killers (maybe up to 10 or more?) who each left one finger print in the Young house. They all, individually, entered the home at the same time, without needing to use any force to enter the home, and committed the murder. But none of them touched more than one or 2 items the entire time. A couple of them made sure to touch papers laying on the printer in the office. Another one made sure to touch the top of the Tylenol Rapid Blast bottle in CY's room. One of them might have even run the vacuum upstairs, but missed one step (thoughtless). None of these people have ever had their fingerprints put in a LE database, so that's helpful!

Then we have a mystery hotel camera tamperer (and perhaps 2--one who only unplugs cameras and the other who only moves cameras to point at the ceiling), both staying at the same HI as JY the night his wife was murdered. Both were fixated on the same camera, covering the same west exit door that got propped by (two I guess) people. Convenient!

We also have a mystery door propper who likes and uses rocks or landscaping lava rocks to prop a door, staying in the same hotel the night as JY also props the same door but with a twig. I guess that person either knows or approves of the camera-moving mystery peeps.

All these various mystery people were able to keep themselves from being on camera on 11/2/06 - 11/3/06, so to add to the list, they have the power of invisibility!

The mystery HI peeps obviously stole JY's dark pullover, pants, and rounded toe shoes so that those items could not be found ever again. Boo. Not nice!

:goodpost:


I wish more posters would * try* to dispute and/ or explain away all of the above as a whole instead of taking them one by one...bc taking one of them at a time ....sure you can twist it in JY's favor (well, not really in my opinion, but for arguments sake...) but I don't see how one can dispute ALL of it on a whole.

Because it just doesn't make sense .....unless an episode of the Twlight Zone is being pitched. Btw, a BIG thank you for all of your info on this case. You provided a lot of it. Thanks also for taking the time to correct any and all misinformation. That's important, so I appreciate you taking the time to do it.

I hope MY and her family get the justice they so rightfully deserve.

Moo. Moo. Moo.

 

[Elisaa444]

LOL, GJ, I think the pic is too grainy. I can tell the shoe toe is round, but that is it. It makes me suspicious. Maybe if I were there with all of the evidence and could see everything laid out.

I think you are doing a good job of trying to see both sides. You aren't closed off to at least entertaining a different perspective. I respect your opinion because of this and to me your reasoning for leaning towards a NG are understandable. I don't agree, of course, but I can see where you are coming from. Your explanation of doubt is reasonable to me. I enjoy your posts.

 

[Elisaa444]

Shelly Schaad testified to MY having a sad side to her, long before she met Jason Young.

I'm going to listen to SS's testimony again for this. I do not recall SS saying "MY had a sad side to her long before she met JY." I guess we all have " sad sides" at time or another. Before MY met JY she was a NC State college cheerleader and most people who knew MY testified to her always smiling, happy, fun, enjoyed life, wanted to be married and have kids. I will re listen though.



Moo.moo.moo.