WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #2

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scandi said:
Hi Outofthedark.

Lividity works with gravity which is why you can see the position of the body at death. So I think these 2 dark spots on his face are moles.

I just went back and looked at his profile from the left. I immediately thought he was Egyptian! The slope of his forehead is the same as his nose, and from all the Egyptian artwork I have seen it looked very posible.

Scandi
I know coldcaseman said there was a mole on his chin- which is small enough to look like a pimple and the other one looks like a dark colored freckle (which is what I have on my entire body and I naturally have them)- I'd have to post a photo of myself so that you would have an idea- unfortunatley I can't do that right now...
 
I thought I would point out some things that came to me whilst reading this thread. First it was obvious that this individual more than likely was from this general area. I am from the south and am familiar only with areas around me. For him to know that this was a nice secluded spot in which to commit suicide tells me that he either visited this area in the past or lived near enough to be familiar with it. Also the fact that he took pains to conceal his identity leads me to believe that any articles found in association with him probably were picked for the sole purpose of anonymity. This means that the belt that was located could very well have been purchased second hand to further perpetuate his unknown identity. All things about this man were 'average'. Even the earlobes which I assume by no earlobes it is meant attached earlobes (recessive trait) versus free lobes (dominant). I thought it would be prudent to point out that Asians tend to have the highest frequency of attached earlobes.

Another thought concerning the suspected weight loss. This man took a great deal of time researching and planning this suicide. He took pains to cover his tracks and to be unknown. Could this have included weight loss? One way to dramatically alter your appearance is to lose weight. If this man was known to others to have been on the heavy side he would appear to be significantly different in appearance having lost 30-40 lbs. Men especially tend to lose a good deal of weight quickly. This weight loss would not result in saggy skin based on his age, especially if he was combining the weight loss with exercise.

Lastly, the name that he used could easily been just a name that he picked up because it was the last book that he was reading. He would have been familiar with the character's name and thus used it because it was temporarily familiar. He may have shared the same name, or had someone in his life that did. Of course he could have just used it knowing that it was another way to stay unknown. The choice of book is interesting of course. Oates is a very popular author; however, upon speaking to a good friend of mine who works for a national bookselling company, she said that Oates' audience is normally women. That doesn’t mean that men don’t read them of course but that is the general audience. Perhaps this means that he was a married man or at least had a women whom he would feel comfortable enough to share literature with.

It is possible that this man recently lost a loved one. This has been discussed in previous postings. If the loved one was the only person this man had in his life it could explain the apparent inability to identify him. The sole person who could give him a name could be gone. If this man was an immigrant, than the rest of his family could be too far removed to do much about his lack of contact. In my personal opinion this gentleman looks Eastern European.
 
Has anyone discussed and objected to showing the autopsy photo here in the thread? The reason I ask is because I would like to do a side by side with the missing guy I think looks like him, so you all can either see or not see what I am talking about. I don't want to offend anyone with poor taste.
 
KJERVIS said:
I thought I would point out some things that came to me whilst reading this thread. First it was obvious that this individual more than likely was from this general area. I am from the south and am familiar only with areas around me. For him to know that this was a nice secluded spot in which to commit suicide tells me that he either visited this area in the past or lived near enough to be familiar with it. Also the fact that he took pains to conceal his identity leads me to believe that any articles found in association with him probably were picked for the sole purpose of anonymity. This means that the belt that was located could very well have been purchased second hand to further perpetuate his unknown identity. All things about this man were 'average'. Even the earlobes which I assume by no earlobes it is meant attached earlobes (recessive trait) versus free lobes (dominant). I thought it would be prudent to point out that Asians tend to have the highest frequency of attached earlobes.

Another thought concerning the suspected weight loss. This man took a great deal of time researching and planning this suicide. He took pains to cover his tracks and to be unknown. Could this have included weight loss? One way to dramatically alter your appearance is to lose weight. If this man was known to others to have been on the heavy side he would appear to be significantly different in appearance having lost 30-40 lbs. Men especially tend to lose a good deal of weight quickly. This weight loss would not result in saggy skin based on his age, especially if he was combining the weight loss with exercise.

Lastly, the name that he used could easily been just a name that he picked up because it was the last book that he was reading. He would have been familiar with the character's name and thus used it because it was temporarily familiar. He may have shared the same name, or had someone in his life that did. Of course he could have just used it knowing that it was another way to stay unknown. The choice of book is interesting of course. Oates is a very popular author; however, upon speaking to a good friend of mine who works for a national bookselling company, she said that Oates' audience is normally women. That doesn’t mean that men don’t read them of course but that is the general audience. Perhaps this means that he was a married man or at least had a women whom he would feel comfortable enough to share literature with.

It is possible that this man recently lost a loved one. This has been discussed in previous postings. If the loved one was the only person this man had in his life it could explain the apparent inability to identify him. The sole person who could give him a name could be gone. If this man was an immigrant, than the rest of his family could be too far removed to do much about his lack of contact. In my personal opinion this gentleman looks Eastern European.
I had always thought he was European after personally eliminating Native and Hispanic as Lyle doesn't fit their average apperance
 
Well, another country heard from, as my Dad always said when someone new popped in with something interesting. LOL Nice to meet you KJervis.

We agree on so many things. The possibility of a love affair finished, losing weight on purpose as part of the plan because suicide is easier when you weigh less, using a fake name that was recently familiar from reading the book and memorizing the address as part of the plan to throw investigators off and that he is from somewhere in the Northwest area. I also said today how he suddenly looks like an Egyptian to me by the shape of his head, but I need to look at more photos of different races.

What do you think of the idea in trying to get a big NW TV station to do a human interest story and Coldcaseman's retirement as the leadin to getting lyle's pic on the tube? Think they would do it?


Scandi
 
gardenmom said:
Has anyone discussed and objected to showing the autopsy photo here in the thread? The reason I ask is because I would like to do a side by side with the missing guy I think looks like him, so you all can either see or not see what I am talking about. I don't want to offend anyone with poor taste.

It doesn't bother me at all Gardenmom.


Scandi
 
scandi said:
Well, another country heard from, as my Dad always said when someone new popped in with something interesting. LOL Nice to meet you KJervis.

We agree on so many things. The possibility of a love affair finished, losing weight on purpose as part of the plan because suicide is easier when you weigh less, using a fake name that was recently familiar from reading the book and memorizing the address as part of the plan to throw investigators off and that he is from somewhere in the Northwest area. I also said today how he suddenly looks like an Egyptian to me by the shape of his head, but I need to look at more photos of different races.

What do you think of the idea in trying to get a big NW TV station to do a human interest story and Coldcaseman's retirement as the leadin to getting lyle's pic on the tube? Think they would do it?


Scandi
I hadn’t thought of it from this angle but it is entirely possible that he may be Egyptian. He certainly has the features. His skin is a bit lighter than the average but this could have been due to not very much outdoor exposure. I will tell you this; he certainly does not look Hispanic or Native American to me. Not by a long shot. I’m leaning more towards European (as outofthedark and I mentioned) or Middle eastern/northern African (as you mentioned).

I think TV would be a good idea; however, this may also lead to more work than expected. Many people have difficulty identifying people after even minor changes, much less autopsy photos. There is no doubt about it, this man is dead and looks it. This may be a problem in identification especially if he did indeed lose weight in anticipation of suicide. That having been said, I think it is worth a try. The right person may have seen him, someone who is good with faces and remembers them well regardless of small changes.

p.s. It’s nice to meet you too! :D
 
gardenmom said:
Has anyone discussed and objected to showing the autopsy photo here in the thread? The reason I ask is because I would like to do a side by side with the missing guy I think looks like him, so you all can either see or not see what I am talking about. I don't want to offend anyone with poor taste.
Ive seen much worse than this gardenmom. I would not have a problem with it. I think the photo is very tastefully done and is not scary in the least.
 
I’m leaning more towards European (as outofthedark and I mentioned) or Middle eastern/northern African (as you mentioned).
I tried looking up "northern african"- I didn't find anything on Google images...
 
outofthedark said:
I tried looking up "northern african"- I didn't find anything on Google images...
Thats just a polite way of saying anyone who lives in northern africa. They tend to have features that look more middle eastern than the typical african features. People from eygpt, algeria, libya etc. Do a search for any of these people and you will see what we mean.
 
KJERVIS said:
Thats just a polite way of saying anyone who lives in northern africa. They tend to have features that look more middle eastern than the typical african features. People from eygpt, algeria, libya etc. Do a search for any of these people and you will see what we mean.
Okay thanks!!
 
Scandi, the belt buckle was in the front of his throat, so the strap went up over his chin and in front of his face. Not typical, but very effective, with pressure being applied to both carotoid arteries, but not cutting off his windpipe. Livor mortis (lividity) and rigor mortis can help establish an approximate time of death. The signs begin to show about two hours after death. A better way to establish time of death is to obtain a liver temperature. The body cools at 1 1/2 degrees per hour (after a slight rise in body temperature). You can also check the potssium level in the eye fluid. There are a number of factors that can affect livor and rigor mortis (illness, room temperature or weather conditions, etc.) so, unlike what we see on tv, the best we can do is an estimate. If this had been a murder, it would have been critical to establish the time of death. Due to the circumstances, I recall we believed he had been dead around 8-12 hours, which would have been in the early morning hours. The lights were on in his room, and he put the bedspread over the window curtain so that no light was leaking out.
 
You guys have been coming up with some good theories. I'm the first to admit my theories may not be right. I always try to put myself in the dead persons place and imagine what I would do. It doesn't always work, as people preparing to take their own life are not thinking logically.
 
What do you think of this allegedly fiction post I found? The post is titled "the button" and you find it by scrolling about half way down the page or you can do a find-it search within the page for "the button". It is a post about attempting suicide in a method similar to our victem.
http://www.hotsandwich.blogspot.com/
 
docwho3 said:
What do you think of this allegedly fiction post I found? The post is titled "the button" and you find it by scrolling about half way down the page or you can do a find-it search within the page for "the button". It is a post about attempting suicide in a method similar to our victem.
http://www.hotsandwich.blogspot.com/
I think its a bit of a stretch doc, im sorry :(.
 
coldcaseman said:
You guys have been coming up with some good theories. I'm the first to admit my theories may not be right. I always try to put myself in the dead persons place and imagine what I would do. It doesn't always work, as people preparing to take their own life are not thinking logically.
But you guys still do a good job though
 
KJERVIS said:
I think its a bit of a stretch doc, im sorry :(.
Explain please. Why do you think I posted the link and what did you get from reading the piece? Thanks.
 
It appears that the article is written to entertain, but if you go to ash.spaink.net and read about Stevens suspension hanging (or search the web for steven suspension hanging), that was written to educate. Steven has carefully thought out his method of suicide, and the article was posted Sept. 11, 2001. It may have been written earlier. I can't help but wonder if Lyle is the Steven who wrote the piece.
 
I posted the link for two reasons:
1. I was concerned as to whether it is fiction or an actual description of the thoughts and attempt of someone. I can see elements that could make it read either way. I didn't think it good to ignore the possibilty of someone else having trouble and needing help. One dead young person is more than enough.

2. The article portrays some odd thinking patterns and someone in a previous post here on websleuths had said something to the effect that suicides don't always think they way you might expect so I thought it might make an interesting read from that standpoint. For example, it was interesting to me that a little thing such as placement of the note took on a life of its own in the article I lnked.

Edited to add:
I also noticed that our fictional person had failed at college more than once and I was wondering if our guy was perhaps also a college burnout or someone who had troubles in college. I did not think they were one and the same person but I noticed the similarities and paid attention to the thoughts expressed mainly to learn what little I could for future cases.
 
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