Was Burke involved?

[Jayelles]

wasn't solved?

Hardly.

It's not their fault the stun gun marks were missed at autopsy.

It's not their fault when they sought help after calling 911, that proper police procedures weren't followed.

It's not their fault that outside help such as the state and feds and Denver homicide detectives were turned away by the BPD.....along with the experts the Ramseys hired to help the police.

It's not their fault there was a lot of old baggage between the BPD and the DA's office.

It's not their fault that not one person involved in the case in the beginning had no homicide experience. (DA's office excepted--and even they had a hard time getting through to Ellers)

It's not their fault that at the best one of the lead investigators leaked false and malicious information to the media.

It's not their fault that they have no idea who could have done this.

ROFL!!!

Well for starters, I didn't say it wasn't the ramseys fault the case wasn't solved - I said IF they had co-operated it MIGHT EVEN have been solved. There is a difference.

Um Maikai - let us remember another example of your logic.....

Let us not forget that you also think that it's not Madonna's fault that she persistently blocks a road in England with her parked car - potentially obstructing emergency vehicles - despite the fact that the road has double yellow lines and that Madonna receives fines every time she does so (leaving her in no doubt about the illegality of her actions). Let us not forget that you think it's the responsibility of the people who live in that neighbourhood to address the issue of her persistent illegal parking there.
Let us not forget this reasoning when you say nothing is the Ramseys' fault.

If the locals aren't addressing the problems Madonna is causing, it's not her fault....perhaps they need to boot the car or raise the fines.

 

[Nehemiah]

ST's Depo?
Yes Cops can lie even under oath.
Remember our friend MF from OJ fame?

Yes, anyone can lie under oath. So, you are saying that you believe that any *evidence* that came from the mouths of the LE is a lie, even if it came out in a deposition? (even from Beckner and Arndt?) I'm asking this because anytime any evidence is produced, you state that it was fabricated. On the other hand, you are taking any statements made by the Ramseys to be the unequivocal truth, even though you cite no sources?

Just trying to understand where you are coming from in your thought processes.

 

[Jayelles]

Yes, anyone can lie under oath. So, you are saying that you believe that any *evidence* that came from the mouths of the LE is a lie, even if it came out in a deposition? (even from Beckner and Arndt?) I'm asking this because anytime any evidence is produced, you state that it was fabricated. On the other hand, you are taking any statements made by the Ramseys to be the unequivocal truth, even though you cite no sources?

Just trying to understand where you are coming from in your thought processes.

Listening to a radio programme about terrorism yesterday, at one point they were discussing the integrity of police. One minister warned that just because there have been occasions when certain police officers lied - it does not mean that all of them are lying all of the time.

There are some people who would have a murderer get off just because someone, somewhere didn't fill in a form correctly or missed out a word in a legal document. I find that very scary.

 

[Zman]

No, but it is not I making the accusations of fraudulent behviour in this respect. I don't think the BPD and DA are co-operating in any conspiracies or lies.


Still suspect them? Where have I ever said I suspected them? I think if they had immediately taken polygraphs and offered to co-operate unconditionally with investigators then it would have gone a long way to making them look less suspicious. Maybe the case would have been solved.

And like a RDI zealot you did not answer my question. This is like talking to politicians.
I asked if the R's took a polygraph test and passed the next day would you still consider them suspects?

 

[Zman]

Yes, anyone can lie under oath. So, you are saying that you believe that any *evidence* that came from the mouths of the LE is a lie, even if it came out in a deposition? (even from Beckner and Arndt?) I'm asking this because anytime any evidence is produced, you state that it was fabricated. On the other hand, you are taking any statements made by the Ramseys to be the unequivocal truth, even though you cite no sources?

Just trying to understand where you are coming from in your thought processes.

I can't make it any clearer then I have.

It's based on the repitition of questioning without any direction or hard follow up in the interviews.

They may not be lying but I believe they are slanting what they have.

For instance when ST says he hears BR's voice on the 911 call who could argue with him? He hears what he hears. But will the rest of us. Will the jury?

If ST says there was pineapple in the bowl then who can question him about it? Does he have proof? I don't know and won't unless there is a trial?

Pineapple, pictures in basement, fibers, voice on tape, fingerprints on bowl, dictionary, flashlight, stun gun....

Read those interviews and it just starts to leap out at you.

LE really has nothing and is grasping for straws.

 

[Nehemiah]

So you are saying that you completely believe everything that either the Rs, or their attorneys have stated? No slanting?

 

[Maikai]

ROFL!!!

Well for starters, I didn't say it wasn't the ramseys fault the case wasn't solved - I said IF they had co-operated it MIGHT EVEN have been solved. There is a difference.

Um Maikai - let us remember another example of your logic.....

is if they had co-operated Eller's way, the BPD would have started doing things by the book? Called in outside help? Followed the evidence? What would the BPD have done differently? They decided earlyon they didn't need any outside help, and IMO, that was their biggest mistake. The Ramseys gave them everything they asked for...supplied names of anyone they could think of that might have a grudge against them. The ground rules could have been negotiated---but the BPD wouldn't budge. The Ramseys didn't trust them, and they had good reason not to

Let us not forget that you also think that it's not Madonna's fault that she persistently blocks a road in England with her parked car - potentially obstructing emergency vehicles - despite the fact that the road has double yellow lines and that Madonna receives fines every time she does so (leaving her in no doubt about the illegality of her actions). Let us not forget that you think it's the responsibility of the people who live in that neighbourhood to address the issue of her persistent illegal parking there.
Let us not forget this reasoning when you say nothing is the Ramseys' fault.

The two are not the same! Obviously the penalty is not a deterrent to Madonna, so she keeps doing it. If she's creating such a potential safety issue, then why don't they tow her car and put it in an impound lot? The local jurisdiction must not think it's that serious, if all they do is fine her....and it's her neck if the car does someday cause a situation that she could be sued for. Apparently, she can have a prime parking space, and just pay a fine she doesn't mind paying. I've paid up to $100 a day in NYC for a legal parking space--what do they charge there?

 

[Zman]

So you are saying that you completely believe everything that either the Rs, or their attorneys have stated? No slanting?

Well I believe the R's lawyers would sure keep the R's from answering any questions they don't think they should. It's their job.

However because I don't think the R's had anything to do with their daughters murder I have no reason to believe they are lying about anything. Not to mention I can't find anything (thats not speculation) to prove a lie by PR or JR.

I sure believe their a bit on the odd side, but I think my brothers a bit on the odd side too.
Yea I know PR has a pretty bad memory but thats not the same as lying.

I'm willing to bet the GJ also found much of the so called evidence the BPD had against the R's to be suspect. Im sure their still waiting for that tape with BR's voice on it.

This is why we are where we are.

 

[Maikai]

The two are not the same! Obviously the penalty is not a deterrent to Madonna, so she keeps doing it. If she's creating such a potential safety issue, then why don't they tow her car and put it in an impound lot? The local jurisdiction must not think it's that serious, if all they do is fine her....and it's her neck if the car does someday cause a situation that she could be sued for. Apparently, she can have a prime parking space, and just pay a fine she doesn't mind paying. I've paid up to $100 a day in NYC for a legal parking space--what do they charge there?

was cut off--about the Ramseys cooperation. It might have made a difference as far as the smear campaign if they had cozied up to Eller's and stood before the media with him, saying what a great guy he is, and how competent the investigators were.....but that would have been a travesty. Eller would not accept outside help-----he's been called an obstructionist by some---that kind of personality isn't conducive to cooperation--and once the Ramseys lost trust in him, the BPD should have risen above the differences and tried to meet them l/2 way---used the DA's office as a facilitator, who the Ramseys did trust.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

once the Ramseys lost trust in him, the BPD should have risen above the differences and tried to meet them l/2 way---used the DA's office as a facilitator, who the Ramseys did trust.

Why should BPD cater to the Ramseys? Let's just have every police dept in the nation stop and cater to any suspects or family of suspects once they've lost trust in the police dept. Let's make police have to compromise in order to conduct investigations with suspects that outright refuse to cooperate with police. How ridiculous is that? Who are the Ramseys to get such special treatment?

 

[Maikai]

Why should BPD cater to the Ramseys? Let's just have every police dept in the nation stop and cater to any suspects or family of suspects once they've lost trust in the police dept. Let's make police have to compromise in order to conduct investigations with suspects that outright refuse to cooperate with police. How ridiculous is that? Who are the Ramseys to get such special treatment?

Gary Condit had his attorney with him........it most cases, it's not a big deal, and the police/DA work it out. If the Ramseys were arrested--they'd have the right to request an attorney. Even Alex Hunter said someone assigned a public defender would have legal representation. The police could have requested the Ramseys come with them that very first day, and they could have interviewed them separately. That wasn't done, because the BPD had to regroup once JBR's body was found. It was too late for them to go backwards, once Mike Bynum quickly figured out what was going on. Not unlike the DNA argument, they can't have it both ways. They can't call the Ramseys suspects and not allow them legal representation. The DA understood it--the BPD didn't get it, and refused to budge.

 

[Jayelles]

The two are not the same! Obviously the penalty is not a deterrent to Madonna, so she keeps doing it. If she's creating such a potential safety issue, then why don't they tow her car and put it in an impound lot? The local jurisdiction must not think it's that serious, if all they do is fine her....and it's her neck if the car does someday cause a situation that she could be sued for. Apparently, she can have a prime parking space, and just pay a fine she doesn't mind paying. I've paid up to $100 a day in NYC for a legal parking space--what do they charge there?

I'm not talking about the crimes. The crimes are irrelevant here. I'm talking about flouting the Law and about the fact that you have demonstrated a logic which supports rich people flouting the Law. I forgot to add that you said that if you had her money, you'd park where you liked too.

The principle is the same. Some people really do believe that laws are for other people and that they are above it because of the kind of people they are.

 

[Karole28]

it's not so much that Bynum figured out anything, I think it's that he didn't know what was going on and apparently entertained suspicions of his friend's involvement whether or not he said as much to John. IF in fact it was at his suggestion the Ramsey's "lawyered up"

 

[ellen13]

I think Condit had something to do with Shandra's disappearance-he just got lucky that 9/11 rolled around at the time and took him out of the spotlight. BTW, did Condit ever
take a lie-detector test????
Sorry, this is off the topic and I should put in the parking lot, but it seemed relevant here.

 

[Nehemiah]

it's not so much that Bynum figured out anything, I think it's that he didn't know what was going on and apparently entertained suspicions of his friend's involvement whether or not he said as much to John. IF in fact it was at his suggestion the Ramsey's "lawyered up"

The motivation could have been money, and he knew that JR had deep pockets.

 

[narlacat]

QUOTE>>I asked if the R's took a polygraph test and passed the next day would you still consider them suspects?<<

What does it matter?
They didn't take a polygraph the next day.
They didn't take a polygraph until it suited them and even handpicked their own polygraph expert.
The examiner the Ramsey's chose, administered the tests when Patsy was taking tranquilizer's. Tranquilizer's alter polygraph results because they interfere with the body's normal responses.
The main reason the Ramsey's shopped around was to obtain someone who would perform the tests with drug's in Patsy's system. They refused to take a polygraph unless it was performed by their expert. Even then Patsy had to be tested multiple times before given a pass.

The polygraph's were a farce, bought and paid for.
The fact that the Ramsey's passed the polygraphs does not at all change my opinion that they know what happened to their daughter.

 

[Zman]

QUOTE>>The fact that the Ramsey's passed the polygraphs does not at all change my opinion that they know what happened to their daughter.

Exactly my point.

 

[narlacat]

Exactly my point.

How could it change my opinon?
How can you think it's ok that the Ramsey's handpicked the examiner?
How can you think it's ok that the test was admininstered whilst Patsy was on medication?
I just don't have that much faith in polygraph's anyway.
Should inject them both with truth serum lol.

 

[Camper]

Nehemiah, Merry Christmas, I like your IF, it opens eyes of forum readers who sometimes read something as fact rather than a supposition. IF IF is a good thing.

NOW Then the BIG question about the Ramseys HONESTY and integrity.

WHY, would the Ramseys avoid the ONE MILLION DOLLARS offered by the National Enquirer IF IF the Ramseys would take a LIE DETECTOR test while CLUES were still hot?

IF IF they had 'flunked' then they could not have taken the media to task with lawsuits on behalf of their small son, could they? Well let me guess the answer. Nopey nope.

Again, by being open and honest and taking the test, the money could have been used for a JonBenet fund to HELP other families with actual MISSING children.

Can you spell HOGWASH?

Another biggie in my 'Wondering Book' is WHY all the lawsuits by the R's when Burke was zeroed in on in MEDIA etc. IF IF he were not prosecutable because of his age and IF IF he were the ONE?

Do you call that EASY money, or do you call it intimidation money, or just what do you call that ceremonial effort by way of LAWSUIT, and like Monopoly, just collect the money.

Can you spell coverup for another family member?

I personally would have great respect for a family that would have taken a lie detector test right up front.

It would have shown respect for little JonBenet as well, IF IF they had taken the test BEFORE she was buried. The result today would be that the Ramseys would be living a quiet respectful life, instead of remaining in their public and private prison, or would they?

What IF IF they had 'flunked' the test at the outset, they were loaded up with attorneys, and most likely no one would have been sitting in the Striped Jail Cell Spa today either.

IF they had flunked, they could not have filed lawsuits against the media for wondering in print about their small son.

WHo did IT, and how was it done, why was it done, most likely WE will never know, when all LE sits on their hands, 'they' donut know either.

Merry Christmas to all the regulars and to the irregulars as well.

=========================================

ellen13, yep I do think Condit knew a great big bunch in advance of 9/11, and that Chandra would have put the pieces together AFTER 9/11, because of their private activities, or names that were known to her. Therefore she had to be removed. Joyce Chiang also was murdered, she had LOTS of info being involved heavily with the activities of NHS, (memory is shot on the exact letters of the gov. agency involved in immigration status etc.)

 

[sandraladeda]

Should inject them both with truth serum lol.

right on! Now THAT is something I would LOVE to see!!