Was Burke involved?

[OpenMind4U]

I have grandsons too, 5 and 2. I hold my breath when they play rough. The little one is a ruffian, and pretty rough and tumble. But he is so tiny compared to his big brother. There will come a day when he will be bigger than his brother- you can tell that already- and then the tide will turn!

LOL...I know what you mean. I cannot watch them 'playing'! Both of them 'in sport' already (succer, baseball, wrestling...youngest one is not much participated but still watching and tries to immitate his older brother at home). When I said 'belt' I really mean the buckle of the belt. You know, the part in the buckle which is protruding to catch the hole on the belt. Anyway, I like girl's play better...at least they can sit still and play with their doll....

 

[rachaellouise]

I'd love to hear from someone who knew Burke. Maybe school friends, college friends, playmates etc.

 

[DeeDee249]

I'd love to hear from someone who knew Burke. Maybe school friends, college friends, playmates etc.

So would a lot of people. The long arm of the R attorneys reached very far. No one will talk. I think BR probably keeps a close circle of friends who he trusts not to talk about him. From what I read a while back, if he got the impression that people wanted to know him just because they were curious about JB, he shut them out pretty quickly.

 

[azwriter]

I can't give you a legal comment, but I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. When watching the videos of the Rs saying they didn't kill their daughter, it is very obvious to me that they are hiding something. If BR did this, then, yes, they can say publicly that they did not kill JB, but they of course KNOW what happened and know who did kill her. I am wondering how all the "inconclusive" polygraph tests were impacted by this. Because technically they'd be telling the truth, but they do have knowledge of the crime, so that would have to make difference as far as the results when compared to someone who was innocent of ALL knowledge of the crime.
And I think the Colorado law prevents BR from even being mentioned in relation to the crime. It can't be talked about.
It took me a LONG time (years) to get to BDI, but now that I see it that way, it makes so many pieces of the puzzle fit. It answers a lot of questions - the GJ is just one puzzle that seemed to have no explanation because they gave NO explanation for their inaction. They just did NOTHING- let it fade away. BDI explains why.

DeeDee, thanks for the comments. I am surprised that it took you years to settle on a BDI. That's surprising coming from a sharp chick like you. I regard your posts on this case as being above par and very insightful.

The BDI light bulb went off in my head when I look at the photos in the Ramsey's book Death of Innocence. I was surprised to see how much bigger Burke was than his little sister. And, that's when I began to see a clear picture of Burke being involved. There was also something about the parents when I saw them in interviews. They were not grieving for their daughter. They were not angry. There was a sense of arrogrance to them and how they discussed the case. I also got the feeling these two did not appear to want this solved.

And then, all the law suits filed whenever Burke's name was mentioned as a possible suspect. Why? When there weren't any legal actions take by the Ramsey's when their names were brought into focus as the guilty ones.

All of the legal actions by Ramsey's dream team and the shutting down by LE adds, for at least me, gave more evidence to strongly consider Burke as the number one suspect. Plus the idea that his parents did what they could to throw all suspicion away from their son, even if he was too young to be charged. The sexual abuse evidence on little JonBenet is what motivated the Ramsey to risk turning this case on its ear.

just my O

 

[OpenMind4U]

DeeDee, thanks for the comments. I am surprised that it took you years to settle on a BDI. That's surprising coming from a sharp chick like you. I regard your posts on this case as being above par and very insightful.

The BDI light bulb went off in my head when I look at the photos in the Ramsey's book Death of Innocence. I was surprised to see how much bigger Burke was than his little sister. And, that's when I began to see a clear picture of Burke being involved. There was also something about the parents when I saw them in interviews. They were not grieving for their daughter. They were not angry. There was a sense of arrogrance to them and how they discussed the case. I also got the feeling these two did not appear to want this solved.

And then, all the law suits filed whenever Burke's name was mentioned as a possible suspect. Why? When there weren't any legal actions take by the Ramsey's when their names were brought into focus as the guilty ones.

All of the legal actions by Ramsey's dream team and the shutting down by LE adds, for at least me, gave more evidence to strongly consider Burke as the number one suspect. Plus the idea that his parents did what they could to throw all suspicion away from their son, even if he was too young to be charged. The sexual abuse evidence on little JonBenet is what motivated the Ramsey to risk turning this case on its ear.

just my O

Thank you for an excellent post!....Of course, Ramsey is always Ramsey. They did sue everyone, regardless Burke or not. Look what they've done to ST! But you're absolutely correct: they never show any ANGER toward intruder. Only 'forgiveness' (by JAR statement). In JR recent book, he claimes that his strong believe in God makes him not angry, makes him to survive. Right.....

Some people saying that they would love to be a 'fly on the wall' during GJ. I want to be a 'fly' as well. In the room, during the fight between JR and FW. I think I would learn everything I need in this case....

 

[UKGuy]

Thank you for an excellent post!....Of course, Ramsey is always Ramsey. They did sue everyone, regardless Burke or not. Look what they've done to ST! But you're absolutely correct: they never show any ANGER toward intruder. Only 'forgiveness' (by JAR statement). In JR recent book, he claimes that his strong believe in God makes him not angry, makes him to survive. Right.....

Some people saying that they would love to be a 'fly on the wall' during GJ. I want to be a 'fly' as well. In the room, during the fight between JR and FW. I think I would learn everything I need in this case....

OpenMind4U,
FW is another candidate for Tricia, I'll bet he has a story to tell. I reckon FW knew it was all staged when JonBenet was found, thats why he took a second look.

FW got to see what we have never seen, stuff that has been deliberately redacted, removed from public view. I wonder why since in interview the R's discuss some of these objects? The pink barbie nightgown, partially opened gifts, and the barbie doll.

I think FW knew he was looking at the remnants of a previous crime-scene, but was still trying to figure it all out. It would be nice to see the wine-cellar photo will all the objects in place. This would allow us to decide what FW could and could not have seen when he looked in that morning.

In JR recent book, he claimes that his strong believe in God makes him not angry, makes him to survive. Right.....

The only god JR is acquainted with is the god of deceit. This is why JR ran for public office, he understands the fake persona politicians project, he knows to cite the bible, talk the righteous talk, etc.

Machiavelli once wrote it was one of the things a wise prince must do, e.g. be seen in church, cite christian scripture, wear sober clothes, and the public being ignorant will think the prince to be a sage, a man of cloth, who is humble enough to respect the church. Worthy of anyones vote. ... not.


.

 

[Sophie]

I have to say that the debate about Burke makes me horribly uncomfortable. He was a child when all of this happened and I have come to think that the family was badly damaged and attributing any blame to a child sits uncomfortably with me. But...too many innocent people are still being libelled and I have come to think that Burke needs to speak.

 

[Sophie]

OpenMind4U,
FW is another candidate for Tricia, I'll bet he has a story to tell. I reckon FW knew it was all staged when JonBenet was found, thats why he took a second look.

FW got to see what we have never seen, stuff that has been deliberately redacted, removed from public view. I wonder why since in interview the R's discuss some of these objects? The pink barbie nightgown, partially opened gifts, and the barbie doll.

I think FW knew he was looking at the remnants of a previous crime-scene, but was still trying to figure it all out. It would be nice to see the wine-cellar photo will all the objects in place. This would allow us to decide what FW could and could not have seen when he looked in that morning.

There's a debate on Topix about this with IDI quoting the illegally published FW deposition on Jameson's site. I'm not going to quote it here but the thread is worth looking at since there is some real vitriol still being poured on the White family.

 

[Maxymoo]

My children are grown up but a remember them at ten and my head is spining at the thought of a ten year old having the level of premeditation you describe. Get angry and hit her on the head maybe but grooming over a period of time is mind boggeling. I live in Australia and in my home and those of friends and family most time is spent in the living kitchen area of the home (until teenagers when they hide in their rooms) Why have a home so huge that your children live on an seperate floor and you cant hear them if they have a bad dream or a cough.....If Blake wasnt capable back them and has been told to cover for someone all these years it has got to have messed up his head....last thing I thought there was unidentified sperm identified in recent years

 

[DeeDee249]

My children are grown up but a remember them at ten and my head is spining at the thought of a ten year old having the level of premeditation you describe. Get angry and hit her on the head maybe but grooming over a period of time is mind boggeling. I live in Australia and in my home and those of friends and family most time is spent in the living kitchen area of the home (until teenagers when they hide in their rooms) Why have a home so huge that your children live on an seperate floor and you cant hear them if they have a bad dream or a cough.....If Blake wasnt capable back them and has been told to cover for someone all these years it has got to have messed up his head....last thing I thought there was unidentified sperm identified in recent years

I really don't think this was premeditated, at least not the way you'd apply it to First Degree Murder. Even if the parent(s) is the perp, this was not Murder One. If this case ever was prosecuted, I'd think they'd go for Manslaughter, Reckless Endangerment, something like that. Throw in evidence tampering, lying to police, etc.
There was NO unidentified sperm. NO sperm at all was found on JB, or her clothing. There WAS dried sperm that was sourced to JAR that was found on a comforter /blanket from his college dorm room. This blanket, along with a Dr.Seuss children's book, was found in a suitcase in the train room. The suitcase was identified by JR as one that his older son took back and forth to campus, about 15 minutes away. Because sperm can't be "dated" once dried, there is no way to link this blanket, the sperm, or book to the crime.

 

[UKGuy]

OpenMind4U,
FW is another candidate for Tricia, I'll bet he has a story to tell. I reckon FW knew it was all staged when JonBenet was found, thats why he took a second look.

FW got to see what we have never seen, stuff that has been deliberately redacted, removed from public view. I wonder why since in interview the R's discuss some of these objects? The pink barbie nightgown, partially opened gifts, and the barbie doll.

I think FW knew he was looking at the remnants of a previous crime-scene, but was still trying to figure it all out. It would be nice to see the wine-cellar photo will all the objects in place. This would allow us to decide what FW could and could not have seen when he looked in that morning.

There's a debate on Topix about this with IDI quoting the illegally published FW deposition on Jameson's site. I'm not going to quote it here but the thread is worth looking at since there is some real vitriol still being poured on the White family.

Sophie,
Thanks for your reference. Yes FW comes in for particular attention since he is a witness to different occassions when the wine-cellar door was opened. On one occassion John Ramsey was present, on the other he was absent.

I reckon Fleet White returned to the wine-cellar precisely because he remembered seeing something that was now absent or had magically appeared.

Much of the contents of the wine-cellar are the remnants of one or more prior crime-scenes. Nobody has really told us if the pink barbie nightgown is really JonBenet's or belongs to one of her dolls? Just what was one of her dolls doing in that wine-cellar, never mind all those partially opened gifts?

My take is that the wine-cellar is simply a last-minute dump-site, somewhere the R's had to place all the stuff that to any eyewitness would contradict their Abducton Scenario.

So partially opened gifts, dolls, blood-stained gowns, etc were all dumped into the wine-cellar along with JonBenet, but not her size-6 underwear or the remaining pairs of size-12 underwear, such a big mistake on either BR or JR's part, since Patsy would never make that mistake nor fabricate a story that could be demonstrated as false merely by looking into JonBenet's underwear drawer.

I reckon the brains behind the wine-cellar setup is JR and that he was revising whatever PR and BR and previously constructed. Were the partially opened gifts part of some fake crime-scene or were they part of the primary crime-scene, with BR and JonBenet fighting over gifts. Did BR promise JonBenet a doll as a pro-quid quo, then they fell out with BR whacking JonBenet as she tried to move back upstairs?

Two aspects to this case are simple to comprehend, i.e. the Sexual Assault and the Asphyxiation. Standing alone together the case would be solved, but the Head Injury complicates matters since it is truly redundant, particularly if you prefer one sequence to another.

I like the sequence Sexual Assault, Head Injury, Asphyxiation, since this allows for the Head Injury to also be a failed attempt at staging.

Patently someone has already spoken to FW, since he, alike PR, has become affected with amnesia. FW probably thinks he is being pragamatic, since once being informed about BR's legal status, and the likelyhood of litigation if BR were to be implicated on the back of FW's testimony, he had a severe loss of memory.

But the getout clause here is that memory can be recovered, it can return, possibly during some interview where questions regarding the contents of the wine-cellar act as an aide-memoire.

.

 

[UKGuy]

I'd love to hear from someone who knew Burke. Maybe school friends, college friends, playmates etc.

rachaellouise,
Burke Ramsey has schoolfriend who I think he is still friends with.

For those sharp enough to connect the dots, lets just mention the Ramsey's Christmas party Dec. 23, 1996, 5pm-8pm.

And lets toss in the stuff about JonBenet not feeling pretty and the 911 call.

Say no more!



.

 

[4Jacy]

I never thought BR was involved in this. From the very beginning (and I was on thus case, if not 24/7, but maybe 8/7), my theory has been this:

JR was molesting JBR. It happened again that Christmas night and Patsy was suspicous. She took the mother of all mag flashlights to JBR's room, saw JR molesting JBR and swung it at JR, missing him and hitting JBR, if not killing her, at least horribly harming her, never to be totally functional, let alone a "beauty queen" again.

Then, both of them were complicit in a horrid crime against their daughter. Thus came the staging. They had to become one with their stories.

Also, remember: JR had a picture of Beth in his shower; he requested someone to come to his room (when he was in a hotel) to dress as a beauty pagent queen!

Also, how can you have a flashlight in your home with no fingerprints on it and none on the batteries. Who the he// put the batteries in, a friggin alien?

And the "ransom note", again no fingerprints. How did they read it without touching it?

Well, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

God bless JonBenet, this little girl didn't deserve her life style as a beauty queen, the hair bleaching, false teeth (in case she lost one), customes, make-up, et. al. And this little girl didn't deserve to die..:banghead:

 

[midwest mama]

I never thought BR was involved in this. From the very beginning (and I was on thus case, if not 24/7, but maybe 8/7), my theory has been this:

JR was molesting JBR. It happened again that Christmas night and Patsy was suspicous. She took the mother of all mag flashlights to JBR's room, saw JR molesting JBR and swung it at JR, missing him and hitting JBR, if not killing her, at least horribly harming her, never to be totally functional, let alone a "beauty queen" again.

Then, both of them were complicit in a horrid crime against their daughter. Thus came the staging. They had to become one with their stories.

Also, remember: JR had a picture of Beth in his shower; he requested someone to come to his room (when he was in a hotel) to dress as a beauty pagent queen!

Also, how can you have a flashlight in your home with no fingerprints on it and none on the batteries. Who the he// put the batteries in, a friggin alien?

And the "ransom note", again no fingerprints. How did they read it without touching it?

Well, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

God bless JonBenet, this little girl didn't deserve her life style as a beauty queen, the hair bleaching, false teeth (in case she lost one), customes, make-up, et. al. And this little girl didn't deserve to die..:banghead:

Your theory makes me stop to think! Can you offer your thoughts on when and how the pineapple snack occurred before JB might have been finally in bed before JR joined her there?

I had read about Beth's photo in JR's bathroom - weird indeed - but had never seen the info about the gal called to his hotel room!:what: Can you source this??

 

[belimom]

I look at this with fresh eyes right now - as the parent of two children approx. the same ages as JBR and BR were at the time of JBR's murder. One of my theories has do with Burke and the partially opened gifts in the basement.

PR originally said that she had opened them b/c she forgot what they were or something like that.

Later it was said the BR opened them - that he had been down to the basement during the day. I find it hard to believe that he would wonder down to the basement during the day when he had presumably received numerous gifts upstairs to play with.

So I believe he went down later that night. I believe JBR was down there, too. Not sure of the details, but something happened between the two of them.

The rest was staging by PR. Not sure of JR's involvement. (Keep in mind that this theory is fresh in my mind after finishing Kolar's book about an hour ago)

 

[4Jacy]

Your theory makes me stop to think! Can you offer your thoughts on when and how the pineapple snack occurred before JB might have been finally in bed before JR joined her there?

I had read about Beth's photo in JR's bathroom - weird indeed - but had never seen the info about the gal called to his hotel room!:what: Can you source this??

The only "theory" I have about the pineapple is that someone, (JR?) offered her a treat, but I reallly don't know.

On you second point, sorry, I cannot source/link it.

Best I can give you midwest!

 

[UKGuy]

I never thought BR was involved in this. From the very beginning (and I was on thus case, if not 24/7, but maybe 8/7), my theory has been this:

JR was molesting JBR. It happened again that Christmas night and Patsy was suspicous. She took the mother of all mag flashlights to JBR's room, saw JR molesting JBR and swung it at JR, missing him and hitting JBR, if not killing her, at least horribly harming her, never to be totally functional, let alone a "beauty queen" again.

Then, both of them were complicit in a horrid crime against their daughter. Thus came the staging. They had to become one with their stories.

Also, remember: JR had a picture of Beth in his shower; he requested someone to come to his room (when he was in a hotel) to dress as a beauty pagent queen!

Also, how can you have a flashlight in your home with no fingerprints on it and none on the batteries. Who the he// put the batteries in, a friggin alien?

And the "ransom note", again no fingerprints. How did they read it without touching it?

Well, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

God bless JonBenet, this little girl didn't deserve her life style as a beauty queen, the hair bleaching, false teeth (in case she lost one), customes, make-up, et. al. And this little girl didn't deserve to die..:banghead:

4Jacy,
I think there was more than one person molesting JonBenet. This is why she has never recieved justice.


.

 

[4Jacy]

4Jacy,
I think there was more than one person molesting JonBenet. This is why she has never recieved justice.


.

I agree. Perhaps her maternal grandfather, and I always though the suitcase belonging to JAR with sperm on a sheet and a Dr. Seuss book inside was very strange.

I think JBR was molested the night of the pre-Christmas party at the Ramsey home, hence, the 911 call and JBR saying she didn't feel pretty. JMO

 

[belimom]

I have not seen official references to the suitcase that had the Seuss book and the comforter with JAR's semen. Is there hearsay, or have I just forgotten that piece of evidence? I just read Kolar's book and don't recall it being in there either. TIA for any links/references...

 

[otg]

I have not seen official references to the suitcase that had the Seuss book and the comforter with JAR's semen. Is there hearsay, or have I just forgotten that piece of evidence? I just read Kolar's book and don't recall it being in there either. TIA for any links/references...

belimom, I don't remember how the information first came out about the contents, but it has been discussed and referenced for a long time. I did find this discussion where it refers to original sources:

6. "The suitcase contained a pillow sham, duvet and Dr. Seuss book.
These items belonged to defendants, but they have indicated that the
items were not normally stored in the suitcase. (SMF P 146; PSMF P
146.) A lab report indicated that fibers from the sham and duvet were
found on the shirt that JonBenet was wearing when she was found in the
wine cellar. (SMF P 147; PSMF P 147.)" (Carnes 2003:Note 32).

Likewise on the semen stain. It has been accepted as fact, but I don't remember where/when it first came out (early onset old-age, CRS). [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=190972&postcount=89"]Here[/ame] is a reference to it by the wonderful koldkase. And here it is on pbworks under "Incriminating Evidence Related to JAR".