What do the profilers say?

[Holdontoyourhat]

Not to knit-pick, but...

The 'thingie' was manufactured in the Ramsey home as evidenced by the rope fibres found on JonBenets bed, and an olde broken Ramsey artists paint brush handle included in the manufacture of it.
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I agree with this part.

DO you really think that an outside perpetrator of unknown ethnicity from a foreign part of our world, would take the time to 'manufacture' this 'thingie right in the home of the murder victim?

Uh, yes. Doesn't making the garrote in the home and leaving it there minimize evidence on the perp both before and after the crime? Tell me that it doesn't..

WE donut know IF this 'thingie' was the actual murder weapon, or IF a scarf (perhaps the one that JR tucked around JonBenets neck in her little casket), or possibly the sweater that JonBenet had been wearing was involved in the strangling of her.

Of course the garrote was the murder weapon. It was left around her neck and there are pictures to prove it killed her. Why would anyone look at it any differently? It is reasonably safe for even a skeptic to assume that the garrote was the actual murder weapon, and not a scarf or sweater.

Put this case in the same file as the Lizzie Borden case, in that WE (the world) will be hashing it over FOREVER. Just like Lizzie, the Lindbergh baby, Jack the Ripper etc., OJ.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Camper]

HOH said:

Uh, yes. Doesn't making the garrote in the home and leaving it there minimize evidence on the perp both before and after the crime? Tell me that it doesn't..
Camper replies in red!

With a 2.5 page ransom note WANTING MONEY for kidnapping JonBenet Written by a kidnapper, WHY would he then search out materials to THEN make a garrot/EA/AEA device. OR better yet why would the perp make it at ALL? The perp should have taken the 'time' used to HUNT the materials and MAKE the thingie,to just TAKE JonBenet OUT OF THE HOUSE and get the money ASKED for in the ransom note.

HOH quoted me:
Originally Posted by Camper
WE donut know IF this 'thingie' was the actual murder weapon, or IF a scarf (perhaps the one that JR tucked around JonBenets neck in her little casket), or possibly the sweater that JonBenet had been wearing was involved in the strangling of her.

HOH responded: " Of course the garrote was the murder weapon. It was left around her neck and there are pictures to prove it killed her. Why would anyone look at it any differently? It is reasonably safe for even a skeptic to assume that the garrote was the actual murder weapon, and not a scarf or sweater.

Indeed that would be the 'staging', that is what the killer wanted us all to reasonably think!


I have always been willing to get on other trains of thought about this murder. My entire focus has always been justice for JonBenet.

Uncountable non typical behaviors of the R's surrounding this entire case make it UNIQUE at least. I did not start backing my bus up SLOWLY, to knock em down until about three months into the case. Turning down the one million dollars by the Enquirer to take a lie detector test, was a biggie for me.

.

 

[BBB167893]

Trouble with staging, Camper: if a person doesn't know what it's supposed to look like, it won't be consistent!

 

[Camper]

Trouble with staging, Camper: if a person doesn't know what it's supposed to look like, it won't be consistent!

------>>>Well lets just not call it staging, lets just say someone or several someones wanted to make the death appear to be something that it was not meant to be.

Welcome to our newcomer, SuperDave. Didn't you get run over on the Smothers Brothers show?

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[BBB167893]

------>>>Well lets just not call it staging, lets just say someone or several someones wanted to make the death appear to be something that it was not meant to be.

Welcome to our newcomer, SuperDave. Didn't you get run over on the Smothers Brothers show?

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Call it what you like.

Do you know how many people have asked me that? For the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been Super Dave Osborne, the stuntman you refer to.

 

[UKGuy]

Of course the garrote was the murder weapon. It was left around her neck and there are pictures to prove it killed her. Why would anyone look at it any differently? It is reasonably safe for even a skeptic to assume that the garrote was the actual murder weapon, and not a scarf or sweater.

Maybe, maybe not.

Holdontoyourhat,

It is reasonably safe for a skeptic to assume anything including that the sun will not rise tomorrow, since generalisation from induction is not conclusive, from memory I think its termed Hume's Fork.

The pictures look convincing, but she may have been manually strangled, and the ligature is simply additional staging.

That does not preclude some form of ligature strangulation, which is patently staging, including her hair being embedded in the garrote knotting, but her manual strangulation occured first.

The whole purpose of the staging is to influence your opinion on how JonBenet met her death.


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[BBB167893]

Holdontoyourhat,

It is reasonably safe for a skeptic to assume anything including that the sun will not rise tomorrow, since generalisation from induction is not conclusive, from memory I think its termed Hume's Fork.

The pictures look convincing, but she may have been manually strangled, and the ligature is simply additional staging.

That does not preclude some form of ligature strangulation, which is patently staging, including her hair being embedded in the garrote knotting, but her manual strangulation occured first.

The whole purpose of the staging is to influence your opinion on how JonBenet met her death.


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That's about how I'd say it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdontoyourhat,

It is reasonably safe for a skeptic to assume anything including that the sun will not rise tomorrow, since generalisation from induction is not conclusive, from memory I think its termed Hume's Fork.

The pictures look convincing, but she may have been manually strangled, and the ligature is simply additional staging.

That does not preclude some form of ligature strangulation, which is patently staging, including her hair being embedded in the garrote knotting, but her manual strangulation occured first.

The whole purpose of the staging is to influence your opinion on how JonBenet met her death.


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Influence my opinion on how JBR met her death?

JBR was brutally murdered. The perp used a killing device. A device designed to aid in the process of killing. IOW, a killing facilitator. My opinion on how JBR met her end has never wandered from this.

Neither scarves, sweaters, nor manual strangulation have any basis in evidence, do they? I mean, they were just made up, right?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Here is my original post from 2006

[size=+2]DIAGNOSTIC CONSIDERATIONS[/size]
The diagnosis of child sexual abuse often can be made based on a child's history. Physical examination alone is infrequently diagnostic in the absence of a history and/or specific laboratory findings. Physical findings are often absent even when the perpetrator admits to penetration of the child's genitalia.22-24 Many types of abuse leave no physical evidence, and mucosal injuries often heal rapidly.25-27 Occasionally, a child presents with clear evidence of anogenital trauma without an adequate history. Abused children may deny abuse. Findings that are concerning, but in isolation are not dianostic of sexual abuse include: 1) abrasions or bruising of the inner thighs and genitalia; 2) scarring or tears of the labia minora; and 3) enlargement of the hymenal opening. Findings that are more concerning include: 1) scarring, tears, or distortion of the hymen; 2) a decreased amount of or absent hymenal tissue; 3) scarring of the fossa navicularis; 4) injury to or scarring of the posterior fourchette; and 5) anal lacerations.1826-28 The physician, the multidisciplinary team evaluating the child, and the courts must establish a level of certainty about whether a child has been sexually abused. Table 2 provides suggested guidelines for making the decision to report sexual abuse of children based on currently available information. The presence of semen, sperm, or acid phosphatase; a positive culture for gonorrhea; or a positive serologic test for syphilis or human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection makes the diagnosis of sexual abuse a medical certainty, even in the absence of a positive history, when congenital forms of gonorrhea, syphilis, and congenital or transfusion-acquired HIV (as well as needle sharing) are excluded.

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;103/1/186

Please look at this chart:

Adams Classification Table, April 2003: Physical and Laboratory Findings​

Used with permission of Joyce Adams, MD




http://www.child-protection.org/CPT/Providers/Injuries.htm#PAimaging

and again:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11217168&dopt=Abstract

last one:

http://www.guideline.gov/summary/summary.aspx?view_id=1&doc_id=7583

 

[madeleine]

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/05/u...s-a-city-s-majesty.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm


''Typically, it is not difficult to get parents to come down to the station for an interview; it is hard to get them out,'' said Mr. McCrary, who has told of declining a job offer from the Ramseys after the murder. ''Typically, they are down there, banging on the desk, saying, 'What are you doing?' ''


http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/09161997vanityfair.htm

One day in early July, I was contacted by a source with firsthand knowledge of the investigation. I arranged to meet with him in a parking lot outside Boulder. Edgy and fearful, he said he was speaking to me only as a last resort. He said that a flow of privileged, confidential information critical to a case against the Ramseys has been leaked from the D.A.'s office to the Ramseys' lawyers with the efficiency of a sieve. He said that the Ramsey's have been provided with copies of all "the most sensitive and critical police and detective reports" as well as reproductions of both the ransom note and "practice" note found the same day. Haddon's team even persuaded Hofstrom and Hunter to give them "private viewings" of the original ransom notes and "the actual ligature and garrote." "The Ramseys' best defense attorneys are right inside Hunter's office," he mumbled bitterly.

The sharing of such information, says famed 25-yr FBI veteran Gregg McCrary, "is unprecedented and unprofessional and an obstruction of justice. It's criminal...It's possible you could make a case for prosecutorial malfeasance. It completely compromises the investigation." On Jan. 4, one of the R's private investigators left a message on McCrary's answering machine asking him to join their team as a profiler. McCrary had his secretary call to decline, he says, "because on a ratio of 12 to 1, child murders are committed by parents or a family member. In this case, you also have an elaborate staging - the ransom note, the placement of the child's body- and I have never in my career seen or heard about a staging where it was not a family member or someone very close to the family. Just the note alone told me the killer was in the family or close to it."

 

[Venom]

From that same article above:

Gregg McCrary adds that pedophiles and ransom kidnappers never overlap. "Pedophiles grab the child, molest them, and discard them. Ransom kidnappers are in it strictly for the money," he says.

 

[BBB167893]

From that same article above:

Gregg McCrary adds that pedophiles and ransom kidnappers never overlap. "Pedophiles grab the child, molest them, and discard them. Ransom kidnappers are in it strictly for the money," he says.

It wasn't just the profilers who said there was staging in this case. Pathologist Werner Spitz used that exact word.

 

[Tiffy2783]

I haven't read through all of this to see if the names are mentioned here but has anyone came acone came across the names Gary McNeil or Fleet White in the investigation. Or the fact that the true killer has committed many other crimes prior to and after her murder as well. Would appreciate everyone's input as to this as I have a source that claims he know the person responsible and that he his a serial killer and admits to subtly to another crime in the ransom note. Still trying to determine the creditability of my informant.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I haven't read through all of this to see if the names are mentioned here but has anyone came acone came across the names Gary McNeil or Fleet White in the investigation. Or the fact that the true killer has committed many other crimes prior to and after her murder as well. Would appreciate everyone's input as to this as I have a source that claims he know the person responsible and that he his a serial killer and admits to subtly to another crime in the ransom note. Still trying to determine the creditability of my informant.

IMO your informant is FOS


There is an abundance here on both the people mentioned above. Use the search feature here. Tons of info.

Hope that helps.

Welcome to Websleuths!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Let_Forever_Be]

What do profilers say:

Dale Yeager of SERAPH said it was a religious/ritualistic murder. And that Patsy did it.

Gregg McCrary says "in conclusion, the totality of the evidence is more consistent with an offender known to JonBenet — one who was comfortable in and familiar with the layout of the house — than it is with a stranger."

Pat Brown talks about how the touch dna is a marker of inclusion as opposed to exclusion. That is, Lacy should never have cleared anyone.

Anyway, there's just some info. Some of this might have been posted on the prior pages but just thought I'd quickly post some stuff off the top of my head.