You beat me to them, Beck!
What small foreign faction?
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You beat me to them, Beck!
HOTYH, there is a reason to get 'worked up here.' That reason is a little girl named Jon Benet. A little 6 year old girl that was killed on Christmas night. In a place where ALL 6 year olds should be safe. Her own home, in her own bed. I don't care if it was 50 years ago. There was NEVER justice for Jon Benet. That is the reason most of us are here.
She was a vibrant, young girl. Her autopsy showed she had been molested prior to her death. If you can NOT get excited by the lack of justice, concerning solving the case and finding her killer,, that is somewhat telling.
As for respecting John business, if that is true, they respect John and they would not have 'chosen him' as there are so many other 'fat cats' who are genuinely stepping over everyone to get where they are. I have also shown you, a few days ago, as have others since then, that 'Fat cat' is an AMERICAN term. Your argument has to be much stronger than an American terminology HOTYH.
Denied proper buriel, they left her in the HOUSE. Either they were totally idiotically STUPID, or they DON'T exist!
Use that 'good southern common sense' is a Patsy expression used against John, both by Patsy and her Father Don. Kind of insulting at that. Ver southern expression.
As for denying that America is NOT involved with Korea, please DO NOT put words in my mouth. I said that proves NO link to John Ramsey or the death of Jon Benet. THEY DIDN'T HOLD THE BODY FOR RANSOM.
As for DNA all over her body, I wont go there with you as all of your other arguments are unfounded. This one has been disproven to you MANY times, but you insist on invisible evidence, results of what has been determined to be mixed or degraded touch DNA and build a fantastically wild and crazy scenario that has NO basis in fact.
You also didn't answer the MOST crucial question I asked you. But thanks for your response as you convince me more with every passing day, that a RDI!!
"I don't know"
"Maybe"
"I don't know"
"Maybe"
"I don't know"
"Probably not"
"I don't know"
"Maybe"
And I'm putting words in YOUR mouth?
Holdontoyourhat
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Its when we admit what we dont know that we can move forward on what we do know: there was an international incident with Korea that culminated the same week.
Wow. Just...WOW!
Holdontoyourhat
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Nah. This never happened. JR wasn't even from the south, why would they say that. Its junk.
What does RDI have to show for 14 years besides intruder DNA and ill-gotten gains from trash books slandering good people who were already victimized?
Juxtaposing lipstick pageant photos of JBR next to photos of her dad and JMK. I wonder how much money was made with these false stories? Now THATS something to get worked up over.
At least the BPD made no false arrests. Smart.
Ugh. Spare me. My heart would bleed if I wasn't occupied with the REAL victim.
Can't say the same for Mother Mary.
Holdontoyourhat
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Uh, one thought I had is the international crisis involving Korea that culminated the same week as the murder.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Gangneung_submarine_infiltration_incident[/ame]
Right. NK lands a recon team, all but one of whom kill themselves or are killed within a few weeks. The obvious thing to do would be to send a small faction of NKs to Boulder to kill a 6 year old girl. Makes sense.
Holdontoyourhat
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All but one. Hmm....
In bold is your idea that you imply is mine and then ridicule it.
Confusing is right. Without knowing what the original intention was, whether the plan was aborted, its not going to be easy to figure out. The easiest thing to do is blame the parents. Heck they were there and everything and they act so guilty.
CathyR
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The Rn is telling us something about the perp. I think you are correct in your assumption of a "foreign" idea. The note writer changes styles several times, this is an effort to conceal which is actually revealing. We all perceive things from our own life experiences. Each time it changes the writer has to fall back on life experiences to know where to start again. The RN seems to have several
This person does have some knowledge of foreign matters and makes references that prove they are not that well informed-in other words it is second hand knowledge. Not life experience knowledge. He has observed others or read about the situations. Person claims to be a group and phrases things like a group is involved with words like we, they, etc. The letter writer proves they are acting alone however when they say" I will call." If a group is involved the reference would have been we will call. The idea a group is not involved occurs when the writer confesses in a singular form "I". He slipped up and forgot his own cover story when writing the note. The length of note also is telling. A great deal of it deals with direct threats to JBR. The note was written to justify (in the killers head) the reason the parents are going to have a dead child. There is a need to explain things. The writer claims to have the home watched and that also is to give the illusion of a group. A group would not ever allow a writer to use the 1st person reference in a note as it would place far to much credit or blame on a single person. While using pen and pad from the home might be used by a kidnapper to lessen direct evidence tying them to crime, it is unlikely such a lengthy note would have been memorized and then written as planned. It would get shorter not longer.
The RN is most definitely an after thought to the original crime-murder.
The more complicated the theory is and the more people involved the less likely it is true. Especially now 14 years later. This was a lone person and no group ever planned this or participated.
If you look carefully at the letter 'a' in the note I would say the writer was trying to disguise his writing. It changes several times from appearing like a typewritten "a" to a handwritten 'a' ( without the upward tail). The size of the 'a' is different and it even looks like they went back and added an upward curve to some of the 'a's. Writing the letter 'a" typo style is not the authors normal way of wring an 'a'. There is block print and even very messy script, shaky and slanted differently. Someone was trying to disguise their normal script and even vocabulary. I think the author used the word attache and was proud of himself as he perceived briefcase to be an American term and he was smart enough not to make that reference. He is a foreign faction remember. The word is very plainly, almost neatly written with the French ' in the proper place. They was no monitoring the house as the instructions are very hard to read and almost illegible the writing is so messy. If delivery of the money could be sped up those instructions would have been clearly written. The greed to get the money would have made sure the writer wrote legibly. There was no intent of ever collecting any money.
There was a plan to cover up and confuse.
This is where I have a problem with an RDI. If the parents are going to stage her body in the home they are going to look more guilty than ever if a RN is found.
The killer could have not written an RN and that would have made the parents look guilty.
If guilty and having some time to dispose of the body they are in a better position to claim their daughter was kidnapped before being murdered. The body being found at the home could not have been the plan if an RDI is true.
Why did the killer NEED to write an RN? What was satisfied by writing the note, what did the killer gain by doing this? I don't think after killing their daughter the killer became remorseful to the point that he didn't want the R's to be blamed so he leaves an RN to help them prove they are innocent.
This person does have some knowledge of foreign matters and makes references that prove they are not that well informed-in other words it is second hand knowledge. Not life experience knowledge. He has observed others or read about the situations. Person claims to be a group and phrases things like a group is involved with words like we, they, etc. The letter writer proves they are acting alone however when they say" I will call." If a group is involved the reference would have been we will call. The idea a group is not involved occurs when the writer confesses in a singular form "I". He slipped up and forgot his own cover story when writing the note. The length of note also is telling. A great deal of it deals with direct threats to JBR. The note was written to justify (in the killers head) the reason the parents are going to have a dead child. There is a need to explain things. The writer claims to have the home watched and that also is to give the illusion of a group. A group would not ever allow a writer to use the 1st person reference in a note as it would place far to much credit or blame on a single person. While using pen and pad from the home might be used by a kidnapper to lessen direct evidence tying them to crime, it is unlikely such a lengthy note would have been memorized and then written as planned. It would get shorter not longer.
The RN is most definitely an after thought to the original crime-murder.
The more complicated the theory is and the more people involved the less likely it is true. Especially now 14 years later. This was a lone person and no group ever planned this or participated.
If you look carefully at the letter 'a' in the note I would say the writer was trying to disguise his writing. It changes several times from appearing like a typewritten "a" to a handwritten 'a' ( without the upward tail). The size of the 'a' is different and it even looks like they went back and added an upward curve to some of the 'a's. Writing the letter 'a" typo style is not the authors normal way of wring an 'a'. There is block print and even very messy script, shaky and slanted differently. Someone was trying to disguise their normal script and even vocabulary. I think the author used the word attache and was proud of himself as he perceived briefcase to be an American term and he was smart enough not to make that reference. He is a foreign faction remember. The word is very plainly, almost neatly written with the French ' in the proper place. They was no monitoring the house as the instructions are very hard to read and almost illegible the writing is so messy. If delivery of the money could be sped up those instructions would have been clearly written. The greed to get the money would have made sure the writer wrote legibly. There was no intent of ever collecting any money.
There was a plan to cover up and confuse.
This is where I have a problem with an RDI. If the parents are going to stage her body in the home they are going to look more guilty than ever if a RN is found.
The killer could have not written an RN and that would have made the parents look guilty.
If guilty and having some time to dispose of the body they are in a better position to claim their daughter was kidnapped before being murdered. The body being found at the home could not have been the plan if an RDI is true.
Why did the killer NEED to write an RN? What was satisfied by writing the note, what did the killer gain by doing this? I don't think after killing their daughter the killer became remorseful to the point that he didn't want the R's to be blamed so he leaves an RN to help them prove they are innocent.
I'm not certain that there was a lone perp and that references in the RN to a group is just to confuse. It seems so, but there is some internal consistency in the note. As I pointed out in another thread a long time ago there is some rationale to the ransom amount. Yes, it conforms to JRs bonus, but note how it is divided up: 100,000 in $100 and $18,000 in $20. Why divide it up that way?
The answer is because there are three perps. The writer of the note (who will ring) and the "two gentlemen". We know from other ransom cases that perps will ask for a large amount AND a smaller amount of disposable cash for immediate use. That's what seems to be going on here. The ransom amount is actually $100,000. But each perp needs $6000 spending money - that is, get-away money - is a small denomination ($20 notes) for immediate cash spending. In other cases, kidnappers ask for an amount of immediate cash in small notes to help the immediate task of getting away (fly to Mexico, whatever) while the main sum (here $100,000) is stashed.
So the ransom amount would fit a scenario of three perps. And there is therefore another explanation for the sum other than it being JRs bonus amount.
It should be noted, however, that - interestingly - the Ramsey's then offered $100,000 reward. Not $118,000 or more, just $100,000 - which is, I would argue, the actual amount being sought. Plus spending money.
The note could be construed in that way, at least. It would explain the odd amount AND the division of the money into two lots. Otherwise, why not just ask for it all in $100 notes? The reason is, three perps needed spending money. My surmise.
The answer is because there are three perps. The writer of the note (who will ring) and the "two gentlemen". We know from other ransom cases that perps will ask for a large amount AND a smaller amount of disposable cash for immediate use. That's what seems to be going on here. The ransom amount is actually $100,000. But each perp needs $6000 spending money - that is, get-away money - is a small denomination ($20 notes) for immediate cash spending. In other cases, kidnappers ask for an amount of immediate cash in small notes to help the immediate task of getting away (fly to Mexico, whatever) while the main sum (here $100,000) is stashed.
So the ransom amount would fit a scenario of three perps. And there is therefore another explanation for the sum other than it being JRs bonus amount.
It should be noted, however, that - interestingly - the Ramsey's then offered $100,000 reward. Not $118,000 or more, just $100,000 - which is, I would argue, the actual amount being sought. Plus spending money.
The note could be construed in that way, at least. It would explain the odd amount AND the division of the money into two lots. Otherwise, why not just ask for it all in $100 notes? The reason is, three perps needed spending money. My surmise.
CathyR
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I also find it strange that the RN asks for 100,s and 20's as they were the first bills to receive the metal counterfeit strips in them. The killer doesn't even mention serial numbers on bills which would be a LE tactic to trace the cash. The RN doesn't mention new money as opposed to well worn money.
The instructions that the money is to be placed in a brown paper bag is also kinda weird. Do you know how large a stash of cash in 20's 18,000. would be.
Does anyone work in a bank where they could ( with permission) measure how large a pile of money in those denominations would be? I think the paper bag would need to be larger than standard grocery style bags. I don't think it would have fit into an attache.
Take all this in to account and I am left thinking, the money request was bogus,
The instructions that the money is to be placed in a brown paper bag is also kinda weird. Do you know how large a stash of cash in 20's 18,000. would be.
Does anyone work in a bank where they could ( with permission) measure how large a pile of money in those denominations would be? I think the paper bag would need to be larger than standard grocery style bags. I don't think it would have fit into an attache.
Take all this in to account and I am left thinking, the money request was bogus,
It takes 233 dollar bills to make a stack 1" tall. I'm going to assume that all bills are the same thickness -though it may not be true, it's probably close enough.
If we had 233 $100 bills in a 1 inch stack, we'd have
$23,300. We'd need just a bit more than 5 such stacks to pay the ransom all in $100s.
Of course the "kidnappers" wanted $20s as well, so we'd need 5 stacks of $20s to equal one stack of $100s.
$100,000/$100 would require 1000 bills, which would be a stack a bit more than 4 inches high.
$18,000/$20 would require 900 bills. A stack a bit less than 4" inches high.
Divided this way, two stacks, averaging approximately 4" high would probably fit in a lunch bag.
The main clue that the money request is bogus is that the body was left behind where (theoretically) it was relatively easy to find.
Holdontoyourhat
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I think we went thru this a few years back and it was maybe a 10" stack if new bills.
In my theory, money wasn't the driving factor. It was a ruse to keep JR busy and not calling police. Read the ransom note, how many times and how many ways the author didn't want JR calling the cops.
In and of itself, that's a clever take on the amount. However, I can't really believe that 3 people kidnap (well, actually don't kindap) a millionaire's daughter for a paltry $100K.
Holdontoyourhat
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President Bush on Friday said, "It is hard to believe that a country would foster abduction. It's hard for Americans to imagine that a leader of any country would encourage the abduction of a young child. It's a heartless country that would separate loved ones, and yet that's exactly what happened to this mom as a result of the actions of North Korea."
http://www.szone.us/f25/president-m...ctors-family-members-japanese-abducted-b-491/
On November 15, 1977, 13 year-old Megumi Yokota disappeared without a trace while on her way home from school. Twenty years later a newspaper revealed she was abducted by North Korean operatives and was still in North Korea. Megumi and at least 13 others were taken from coastal cities in Japan during the 1970s and 80s, shoved into holding cells on spy vessels, and shipped off to North Korea to train agents in Japanese culture and customs. The perpetrators of the Korean Air Flight 858 bombing in 1987 posed as Japanese nationals thanks to such training.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/North-Korea-Kidnapped-My-Daughter/dp/193428744X"]Amazon.com: North Korea Kidnapped My Daughter (9781934287446): Sakie Yokota: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]
North Korea has also perpetrated abductions in South Korea, which has the highest number of citizens abducted by the North. The number of South Korean abductees is put at 485[27] or 486.[28]
In December 1969, a Korean Air Lines YS-11 was hijacked by a North Korean agent soon after taking off from Gangneung.[29] The pilot was forced to fly to and land in North Korea. The passengers, crews and aircraft have yet to be returned. North Korea claims that this was an act of asylum by the pilot, but it is considered to be another case of abduction.
In the 1970s, many women were abducted from Lebanon and in July 1977 there was an attempt to abduct a Korean pianist/actress and her spouse from Yugoslavia.[29] There were also incidents in which South Korean high school students were abducted.
There are testimonies that several others have been abducted, including two Chinese (Macao), two Dutch, three French, three Italians, a Jordanian, four Malaysians and a Singaporean.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese#Other_abductions_by_North_Korea
http://www.szone.us/f25/president-m...ctors-family-members-japanese-abducted-b-491/
On November 15, 1977, 13 year-old Megumi Yokota disappeared without a trace while on her way home from school. Twenty years later a newspaper revealed she was abducted by North Korean operatives and was still in North Korea. Megumi and at least 13 others were taken from coastal cities in Japan during the 1970s and 80s, shoved into holding cells on spy vessels, and shipped off to North Korea to train agents in Japanese culture and customs. The perpetrators of the Korean Air Flight 858 bombing in 1987 posed as Japanese nationals thanks to such training.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/North-Korea-Kidnapped-My-Daughter/dp/193428744X"]Amazon.com: North Korea Kidnapped My Daughter (9781934287446): Sakie Yokota: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]
North Korea has also perpetrated abductions in South Korea, which has the highest number of citizens abducted by the North. The number of South Korean abductees is put at 485[27] or 486.[28]
In December 1969, a Korean Air Lines YS-11 was hijacked by a North Korean agent soon after taking off from Gangneung.[29] The pilot was forced to fly to and land in North Korea. The passengers, crews and aircraft have yet to be returned. North Korea claims that this was an act of asylum by the pilot, but it is considered to be another case of abduction.
In the 1970s, many women were abducted from Lebanon and in July 1977 there was an attempt to abduct a Korean pianist/actress and her spouse from Yugoslavia.[29] There were also incidents in which South Korean high school students were abducted.
There are testimonies that several others have been abducted, including two Chinese (Macao), two Dutch, three French, three Italians, a Jordanian, four Malaysians and a Singaporean.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese#Other_abductions_by_North_Korea
Agreed.
How would they know that, though? Like I've said in the past, the crime needs a criminal. Without the RN, all you have is a little girl in her own house strangled with sexual injuries.
True, but we've been over that.
I don't think it was, initially. The RN almost sounds like two people arguing.
According to the FBI experts, it provided a criminal to go along with the staged crime scene and a way for the killer to "undo" the crime in their mind; i.e., "I didn't do it. This BAD person did it."