Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

[DeDee]

Neesaki, it was reported here, by people who knew people that studied at the same school. It was not reported what he used to say about her, but it was pointed out he talked about her all the time. JAR's bedroom was left a mess the night of the murder, take s look at the JAR thread.

JBR was adorable and quite frankly possessed a pleasurable personality. Do you recall the innocent question JonBenet asked the gardener if roses know that their thorns hurt? It is likely JBR was constantly giving the family funny little lines to repeat in laughter with others. In no way whatsoever was JAR crushing on JBR.

JARs semen was stained on the blue comforter located inside the blue suitcase. It was not mixed with an unknown DNA. Doesn't that indicate he was alone when his semen made contact with the comforter? Perhaps he used the Dr Seuss book of nude drawings to get ready. It was not a child's book. JAR placed the blue suitcase in the laundry area on the 2nd floor while out for the holiday likely with intentions of washing the comforter before returning to college in Jan. '97. Only his suitcase got moved downstairs on the 23rd. What day did JAR fly to ATL? Was he in attendance at the R party? In a hurry to leave Boulder, after the Dec 23rd party, Paw Paugh left Boulder on Stand-By on Christmas Eve. Nedra was in AZ, iirc.

The reason, imho, that JARs room was messy is not only was PR using it as a catch all for the packing of the clothes for the children's Big Red Boat cruise but also b/c PR used his bathroom to color her hair Christmas Day. JB wasn't feeling well so she played or rested on JARs bed while PR colored her own hair. There is an evidence pic of the drawers open and gloves and stuff. This is why I feel the room and bathroom are in untidy condition.

:cow:

 

[singularity]

People can believe what they want, but it sounds like nothing more than a rumor to me. It's hearsay...we don't even know the original source...or what exactly JAR did (if anything) that made people think he was obsessed. with his sister. He could have mentioned her once...and then boom...he's obsessed. Or maybe after JonBenet was killed, someone started a rumor that JAR was obsessed with her and it took off from there.

Of course people can believe what they want. Hell, there's people who believe she was killed in some sort of satanic ritual.

What made people think he was obsessed is he talked about her a lot at school. After she was murdered, these people wondered if he was involved in it. This info finally made it to the internet.

Is the WS member whose daughter also heard this still an active member?

 

[DeDee]

The previous molestation may not have had anything to do with the murder. It that could be true, then they would have two separate investigations on their hands: one for the murder and one for the sexual molestation. If after that, the two investigations intersected, then they'd be connected. Basically put, I think the murder investigation was their main focus and they were trying to add the sexual molestation to her murder. What if the molestation had nothing to do with the murder? Now you're looking for clues that don't make sense because you're dealing with two different crimes committed at different times.

This is certainly plausible that the prior sexual abuse was not connected to nor conducted by the killer.

More than two dozen trips to see the child's doctor in the first three years of life should have been reported. Three ph calls in one evening but Patsy can't recall why she desperately needed the Dr Beuff?

JonBenet's vaginal assault with the broken artist brush was legally multiple charges of child abuse yet secondary to the crime of murder. Prior abuse would be only be difficult to pinpoint the abuser since JBR did not reveal it anyone who has told us.

We should be looking for a person who could bash JBs head hard enough to crush the skull, leaving a chunk knocked out and creating a hematoma. This would kill her within a few hours. She lived in that condition for 45 minutes up to two hours, according to Chief Kolar.

However, after cracking her skull, the killer rolled JB onto her back and fashioned the garotte over an unconscious body. At some point, JB expelled urine. Possibly, when the garotte was used to strangle the life out of this little girl.

Now, who could sit straddled on JB and strangle her from behind with a garotte? Then, move her tiny body along with a blanket to the wine cellar. The pink nightgown clinging to the blanket came from the dryer that way, according to the housemaid.

Further, the killer poked, not far, and prodded, not too much, JonBenet's vagina with a broken artist brush and wiped away her blood from her inner thighs. The Killer may have been sending a message to the sexual abuser: I know what you've been doing and now you can never do it again.

If Patsy was complicit in allowing others to abuse her daughter, it was religiously ritualistic in nature, celebrate the body, s*ft p*rn, that involved top officials in high offices. :dunno:

 

[DeDee]

RSBM :twocents:

Sexual abuse doesn't mean intercourse, but vaginal trauma doesn't mean that the abuse was necessarily sexually-motivated.

I have explored the idea that PR employed violent cleaning methods as punishment for JBR's toileting issues (such as wiping internally with a wipe-covered finger and douching). This also fits with the facts of the autopsy. Additionally, it explains the recurring vaginal infections and why JBR was having prolonged toileting difficulties. Bonus: it explains why PR seemed to think that JBR's frequent infections, doctor visits, etc. were nbd.

Once I started down that path, all the other confounding pieces of evidence began fitting together, but that's just me.

"I have explored the idea that PR employed violent cleaning methods as punishment for JBR's toileting issues (such as wiping internally with a wipe-covered finger and douching). This also fits with the facts of the autopsy."

Do you realize the cruelty involved in this highly invasive treatment of a 6yo girl? I cannot imagine placing a child into a tub to douche her due to her bed wetting issues. Someone with that mentality would be capable of punishing their child for something by killing them b/c they deserved it.

Wish we knew of any physical evidence that points to this.

* Hiya, maybe unless someone can provide a SMS link to the JAR infatuation with JonBenet perhaps that particular word or one similar should not be repeated. It does us no good to perpetuate a myth.

 

[singularity]

There is just one piece that doesn't make sense Singularity: Patsy Ramsey. Can you honestly picture her allowing JAR to molest her daughter? The pictures become even stranger: if JAR took them, where did he take them? Did he ask Patsy for permission? Who assisted in the creation of the photographs? Who applied the make up, picked out the outfits, etc...? Most importantly, in what part of the house were the pictures taken? This has never been revealed. If Patsy agreed to JAR taking those photographs, why did she not find anything wrong at him keeping them in his bedroom? And we know she knew they were there because she tried to dispose of them. It's just weird...if my step son asked me to take glamorous pictures of my 6 year old daughter I'd refuse and keep both eyes open on him. Unless he didn't take the pictures, but if so WHO did???

Some dysfunctional families can defy explanation. While I highly doubt Patsy advocated any abuse from anyone, she could have easily just looked the other way knowing something was going on. What is the alternative? Rock the boat and potentially piss off the goose laying the golden eggs? Patsy didn't seem like the most stable person in the world anyways.

I do agree that in the JAR-JB dynamic, pieces to the puzzle are certainly missing. I'm hoping these documentaries reveal more evidence on the case in general but I also hope they go into this aspect of the case and discuss JAR because very little is known about him.

LIke you, I want to know WHO was taking those pictures. It's very important whether there was abuse going on or not.

One other thing I never liked since we're on this subject is how close JAR's room was to Jonbenet's.

 

[singularity]

* Hiya, maybe unless someone can provide a SMS link to the JAR infatuation with JonBenet perhaps that particular word or one similar should not be repeated. It does us no good to perpetuate a myth.

People(including you) speculate on much worse things than JAR's potential infatuation with Jonbenet and I don't see you or anyone else demanding links or saying its off limits.

If Patsy was complicit in allowing others to abuse her daughter, it was religiously ritualistic in nature, celebrate the body, s*ft p*rn, that involved top officials in high offices.

religiously ritualistic.....top officials in high offices....*advertiser censored*? Is that a myth or a fact?

Maybe take your own advice instead of trying to censor others.

 

[BoldBear]

Do you realize the cruelty involved in this highly invasive treatment of a 6yo girl? I cannot imagine placing a child into a tub to douche her due to her bed wetting issues. Someone with that mentality would be capable of punishing their child for something by killing them b/c they deserved it.

I've read the threads where douching was discussed. I never approached it as though Patsy was using it as punishment or doing it with anger. I always viewed it as Patsy being aggravated with Jonbenet's yeast infections. It could have been a home remedy. Douching ads were common in the 80s and into the 90s. I don't know when those ads stopped, but I don't see them on TV anymore. (I think they were actually doing more harm than good but I won't go into the details.)

The idea of doing this to a 6 year old goes against what I consider appropriate. That doesn't mean it wasn't done. Something caused the bruising and all that has been discussed thoroughly so I won't rehash it. If it was done, it would have been uncomfortable and painful. If Patsy was doing it when she was angry, it could very well have appeared to be a punishment. There is a line here that isn't very clear. Children get shots or procedures at the doctor's office. A dental office can be painful. If the parent thinks it's best for the child, then a little discomfort or pain is okay. That doesn't mean that the pain or discomfort is okay with the parent either. The trade-off is what they believe is best for the child even when it hurts them to see their child in pain.

 

[DeDee]

People(including you) speculate on much worse things than JAR's potential infatuation with Jonbenet and I don't see you or anyone else demanding links or saying its off limits.


religiously ritualistic.....top officials in high offices....*advertiser censored*? Is that a myth or a fact?

Maybe take your own advice instead of trying to censor others.

religiously ritualistic - SBTC; Lord, please raise my daughter from the dead like you did Lazarus.

top officials in high offices - JR called the LT Gov. Mary Lacy exonerated the Rs. AH did not prosecute after True Bills were signed.

You changed my text. Please don't. I wrote s*ft p*rn. There is no other way to describe it. JBR was dressed only with a white boa in a glamor snapshot.

 

[BBB167893]

I have to go with what DeDee said earlier: whoever molested JB was careful about it, trying to acclimatize her to the experience. I can't see someone in anger being that careful.

 

[B00kw0rm]

You changed my text. Please don't. I wrote s*ft p*rn. There is no other way to describe it. JBR was dressed only with a white boa in a glamor snapshot.

What picture are you talking about? Because I'm 99% sure I've seen every picture that has been released and I can't think of any that match that description.

 

[singularity]

religiously ritualistic - SBTC; Lord, please raise my daughter from the dead like you did Lazarus.

top officials in high offices - JR called the LT Gov. Mary Lacy exonerated the Rs. AH did not prosecute after True Bills were signed.

You changed my text. Please don't. I wrote s*ft p*rn. There is no other way to describe it. JBR was dressed only with a white boa in a glamor snapshot.

I didn't change your text. Hell, I quoted your text. Spare me the faux outrage. For the record, I know what you meant by it. You're one of the very few here willing to bring up those extremely inappropriate pics. You get no crap for it yet the times I bring it up, certain people ask me for a mile long list of sources. One of the reasons I like you....you're willing to talk about some things many want kept quiet or wish to ignore. Its why I was surprised by your attempt to censor discussion on the JAR issue.

SBTC- No one knows what that means. Its a "myth" that its religious. Patsy begging Jesus isn't really "ritualistic" although I can see why you(or anyone) might say that. Might have been a spontaneous outburst for all we know.

If Patsy was complicit in allowing others to abuse her daughter, it was religiously ritualistic in nature, celebrate the body, s*ft p*rn, that involved top officials in high offices.

top officials in high offices - JR called the LT Gov. Mary Lacy exonerated the Rs. AH did not prosecute after True Bills were signed.

You insinuated top officials were involved much deeper than that in the first quoted post. You moved the goal posts in the second.

I don't want an argument with you or to start running in circles. I hate that crap.......and I like you. You're a valued member here no doubt. You post lots of information here which helps the newer members and comes in handy in discussions for those of us following the case for years.

Just because you may not agree that JAR had any interest in JOnbenet and nothing in the house can be connected to him does not make it fact. It also doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to discuss it.

If JAR is off limits, Tricia or some other admin needs to say it and sticky this info although if JAR is off limits, I'd imagine Burke should be as well since he was a child at the time. We can talk about Burke molesting her, bashing her over the head during a snack, etc. but mentioning JAR, pics, a suitcase, unexplained/redacted items in his room, and his chaotic room is somehow a no no? That dog don't hunt.

What picture are you talking about? Because I'm 99% sure I've seen every picture that has been released and I can't think of any that match that description.

Now I need to defend DeeDee.....


There are some people on these forums who know some info that is not common knowledge on the sites and know about certain pictures not discussed frequently. When I mentioned the controversial Charlevoix pics about a month ago, several people jumped all over me. I wanted my post about it and those quoting it deleted but it never happened.

Many years ago(especially on sites that no longer exist) certain people very close to the case posted on the various forums and even talked to certain members privately. Some things cant be sourced due to dead sites and no one saving conversations/messages. I don't doubt DeeDee's statement about those pics(s*ft p*rn) at all just like I have no doubt about the pics I mentioned seized in Charlevoix. I actually think DeeDee knows some of the same info as I do not discussed openly but due to the negative reaction mentioning such info causes here, I wont be bringing it up anymore.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

This is the only boa picture that I know of. Are people claiming that there is another one that would be considered highly inappropriate?

 

[singularity]

This is the only boa picture that I know of. Are people claiming that there is another one that would be considered highly inappropriate?

Yes and there's more than one. IMO it should be left alone. All bringing up those pics does is cause arguments about sources and other things. Even if anyone had access to those pics, they could NEVER be posted on a forum.

Example....say these documentaries have these pics, they will not show them......they will describe them.

 

[B00kw0rm]

Now I need to defend DeeDee.....


There are some people on these forums who know some info that is not common knowledge on the sites and know about certain pictures not discussed frequently. When I mentioned the controversial Charlevoix pics about a month ago, several people jumped all over me. I wanted my post about it and those quoting it deleted but it never happened.

Many years ago(especially on sites that no longer exist) certain people very close to the case posted on the various forums and even talked to certain members privately. Some things cant be sourced due to dead sites and no one saving conversations/messages. I don't doubt DeeDee's statement about those pics(s*ft p*rn) at all just like I have no doubt about the pics I mentioned seized in Charlevoix. I actually think DeeDee knows some of the same info as I do not discussed openly but due to the negative reaction mentioning such info causes here, I wont be bringing it up anymore.

I wasn't trying to be insulting, I was genuinely asking. Just because I'm new to posting here doesn't mean I haven't followed the case in a very in depth manner for just about my entire life, I really am almost completely certain that I have seen every picture that has been released in any manner. Including many that I know are consider very rare. I've seen many people ask about pictures on this website that I can tell you who took then, when, and what other pictures were taken that day. While I can think of a lot of pictures that would seem questionable, I can't think of any which fit that description. It was said to be a glamour shot, I was simply hoping that I might be told the photographer/approximate date of the shoot so that I could see if it might be a cropped version or a bad angle of a picture I have access to, or if it was really exactly as described.

 

[BOESP]

Earliest reference to a supposedly provocative boa photo that I could find comes from Jameson's website in 2003, post #5:

http://www.webbsleuths.com/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=1807&forum=DCForumID101

 

[eileenhawkeye]

So the photo was mentioned in Singular's book. It doesn't seem like it was ever made public though. Not sure how that would happen. Considering that we have the photo above where JBR is wearing a boa, that seems to point towards the other photo being real...we at least know that JonBenet was photographed with a boa.

 

[B00kw0rm]

I think I remember a swimsuit photo of her with a feather boa draped around her that was definitely from a type of glamour shoot. Let me see if I can find it. I wonder if things might have gotten blown out of proportion with that photo, if there was another of her where it looked like she was only in the feather boa, or perhaps there really is a picture like that. I think I remember hearing of this before now, and always just assuming it was really the swimsuit photo.

ETA: I can't find the photo I'm thinking of. Several other questionable swimsuit photos, but none with a feather boa. However, there were also feather boa pictures in the Randy Simons photo shoot, which was also certainly a glamour shoot. If it's not the swimsuit photo and such a photo really exists, I would bet it was from that photoshoot.

 

[singularity]

I wasn't trying to be insulting, I was genuinely asking. Just because I'm new to posting here doesn't mean I haven't followed the case in a very in depth manner for just about my entire life, I really am almost completely certain that I have seen every picture that has been released in any manner. Including many that I know are consider very rare. I've seen many people ask about pictures on this website that I can tell you who took then, when, and what other pictures were taken that day. While I can think of a lot of pictures that would seem questionable, I can't think of any which fit that description. It was said to be a glamour shot, I was simply hoping that I might be told the photographer/approximate date of the shoot so that I could see if it might be a cropped version or a bad angle of a picture I have access to, or if it was really exactly as described.

I should have worded that differently. I wasn't accusing you of anything....it was more a preemptive strike as I know how when someone(me) says something that's not discussed often or not at all, people can start piling on.

I know your question was genuine and you're another member I like. In a recent thread/convo when I responded to you, I said great minds think alike. You're one of the members who takes into account the potential abusers surrounding her and I also believe it to be a big part of this case.

While I cant say for certain, I doubt these specific pictures are in circulation to the point forum members have them. Having said that, there are pics being "hoarded" just like on music sites where rare music is hoarded among certain fans. For the record, I am not one of these hoarders. I don't want inappropriate pics of her. I can get by with descriptions of them as it can reveal a lot about the person taking those pics.

I've always wanted to see the last professional set where she's sitting on that rope wearing cowboy boots. Yes we've seen some of them but I am unsure if the entire set is out there.

Sorry if it sounded like I was criticizing you.

 

[B00kw0rm]

I'm sorry, singularity. Tone is so hard to read online! I certainly don't want inappropriate pictures of her either. I only meant that based on the original description I was thinking that maybe the picture was actually a cropped version of another photo and appeared to be something it wasn't.

I believe I have ... fourteen or fifteen photos from that last photo shoot, if that's more then you have seen. I've tried to save every photo I have found for reference purposes, but I just recently got a new laptop as my old one was dying, and not everything seems to have been transferred over. If I can get the old laptop running long enough to get the full folder moved over, I might have more then that. I don't see the point in "hoarding" pictures myself and I'm always willing to share if there's something someone is curious about. That's a big part of why I have them saved.

 

[Tadpole12]

If you google 'children feather boa, 'a lot of images of boas for 'dress up play', kinda dollar store boas etc come up and a glamor shot of a child beauty queen, must be a beauty pageant thing?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/08/article-2491888-19433D8600000578-429_634x629.jpg