GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #2

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Noticed this added to the court record for AW yesterday:

09-09-2014
Letters/correspondence

Additional Text:

filed by Attorney Joseph Smith, Jr. regarding competency and that the Court make ruling defendant's case be allowed to proceed.

...and today...

Attorney: Second Girl in Slender Man Case Unfit for Trial

Smith told Bohren he wanted to go ahead with the probable cause hearing and have the judge consider his client's mental state during a reverse waiver hearing that would follow. The reverse waiver hearing is where Bohren will decide whether the girl's case belongs in the adult or juvenile systems.

Smith has said repeatedly that he hopes to have the case moved to juvenile court. In his letter to Bohren, he expressed concern that if Weier was found unfit to stand trial before the reverse waiver hearing, she would be treated in the adult system and might not receive services appropriate for her age.

http://www.people.com/article/second-girl-slender-man-case-unfit-for-trial

The Preliminary Hearing for AW is scheduled for the 9/17 and 9/18.
 
There is a piece of the Slender Man mythos that is not immediately obvious. It accounts for the belief in something that is "obviously" made up. I thought at first it was just kids being "in character" with the genre, but it goes beyond that. Many of them REALLY do believe in Slender Man, think they have seen him and are certainly having nightmares about him. It is having a real impact on their lives.

Kids do know that Slender Man was made up in 2009. However, the mythos discusses the notion that Slender Man is a "Tulpa":Tulpa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Briefly, a Tulpa is a demon that can be brought into "existence" through belief. If people believe in it, then it is real. If you think about it, this is how every god, demon or other entity gained existence and acceptance. It doesn't matter that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of, say, Slender Man, in exactly the same way that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of (any) God. For those that believe, the Tulpa becomes "real". All that is required is a "seed", a picture and/or stories to which belief can be anchored and expanded upon.

I think this is an incredibly important aspect of Slender Man that has simply been overlooked (or ignored) by the media and the public. It goes long way to explain how someone susceptible could set aside common reason and do something as dreadful as attempting to sacrifice a friend. By "someone susceptible", I'm thinking about mental illness, loneliness, isolation, someone that has an important part of their life missing or damaged.

My fear is that the part that Slender Man has played in this affair will be simply dismissed, the girls will wind up in prison for the rest of their lives, and they won't get the psychiatric treatment they need. In the meantime, something like this will happen again, perhaps without the great good fortune of the victim surviving.

The following is a very interesting read about how Slender Man came about and evolved.

http://darklore.dailygrail.com/samples/DL6-IV.pdf

This gave me chills. I am in my late 40's, and here in Middle Tennessee, when I was in high school, one of my classmates was apparently possessed by a demon. It even made the newspapers. He went to our church, and he was supposedly researching satanism for a school paper and because he was reading about it he opened himself up for possession. His parents pulled him out of school for a year. A catholic priest actually perfumed an exorcism. I do remember when he came back to school he was a completely different person. He used to be a "cool" kid, hung out with partiers and when he came back he was like a "nerd", totally involved in schoolwork and kept to himself. I heard he could speak several languages afterwards. It scared the crap out of me, and I wouldn't even play with a Ouija Board after that so I wouldn't open myself up for possession. I can remember going on a church retreat and on the bus kids were laughing and talking loud about possession (the guy was in the bus behind us and I guess they were very viciously making fun of him) and he spoke up and said in a scary voice "I'm warning you, don't even talk about it". Seriously, it was like the voice of legions or something. And it did shut everyone up.
 
Thanks Renee110 - that's a very interesting story.

Arguably, whether any entity actually exists or does not exist (and I'm not taking any position here) doesn't really matter: its the belief in that entity and the human psyche together that makes it real to the believer(s).

One of these girls (MG) seems to have been developing a schizophrenic condition. This is rare in someone so young, and particularly rare in that it hadn't (supposedly) affected her ability to function on a daily basis.

The other girl also seems to have been questioning her own mental makeup. AW commented on several "are you a psychopath" tests on YouTube. In her comment, she joked that the result was positive for. In one comment she made a tragically ironic quip about "slap the cuffs on officer". I didn't make the connection at the time, but last week it occurred to me that the fact that she was NOT horrified by MG's suggestion that they kill their friend must have been deeply troubling to her. In her statement, she was "surprised, but excited...". At the end of her statement she said, "...the bad part of me wanted her to die, the good part wanted her to live".

AW clearly knew academically that what they were planning was deemed to be wrong by society. She also knew that she should have felt revulsion in response to MG's idea... but she clearly did not. I think her concern about psychopathy was spot on.

So we wind up with one girl who has lost her grip on reality, and the other who doesn't appear to have the normal empathy to nip the plot in the bud. It is likely that the relationship between MG and PL had become strained due to MG's increasingly bizarre behavior, while AW no longer has her mother living at home following her parents divorce last year. And then there's the appalling drama of middle school to add to the mix. And the possibility that AW wanted to please someone who would become her best friend, instead of PL.

My immediate thought when I first heard this story (and saw the pitiful spectacle of two 12 year old girls in court, cuffed and manacled) was "how the hell could this have happened??"

I still feel that way.
 
For those of you that may have missed it, 20/20 on Friday 9/26/14 is opening their season with interviews with the victim's family and the victim (I believe her face will not be shown).

May God bless this young girl and keep her safe. Thinking of her.
 
For those of you that may have missed it, 20/20 on Friday 9/26/14 is opening their season with interviews with the victim's family and the victim (I believe her face will not be shown).

May God bless this young girl and keep her safe. Thinking of her.

Wow - thanks for posting this! Took a quick look online and found this link:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fullpage/slender-man-stabbing-timeline-woods-25701340

... which is an elaborate setup for the show with some fancy graphics around some not-particularly-accurate information.

Given that this case has not been tried I highly doubt whether this show will offer new information about what actually happened. I imagine it will rehash what's already been reported, dramatize the suffering of the victim and her family with the usual media hyperbole, and perhaps solicit conjecture from various pundits. And have a lot of ad breaks. I certainly hope this is the case, or we'll wind up with another "trial by media" before the suspects have even entered pleas.

In particular, I'm sure that following won't be answered:

- who actually did the stabbing, MG alone (per AW's statement), or both of them, per MG's statement? The victim said, when questioned, "my best friend, Morgan Geyser".
- did the victim know that *something* was going to happen during their trip to the park, but not what she expected? Rather than "why did you do this", she yelled "I hate you! I trusted you!"
- what did the victim know about MG's beliefs regarding Slenderman and the idea of killing someone to become a proxy?

I don't mean to in any way to suggest that the victim could have truly known that she might be in danger. At that age in particular, differentiating between fanciful morbid play and schizophrenia would possibly be hard for a trained professional, let alone a 12-year-old friend. It may be that MG was able to intimidate her friends (consciously or otherwise) and that the friendship between the victim and she had already seriously deteriorated. In particular, I can imagine the victim having to take MG to task regarding her beliefs and interests because she didn't share them, and they were seen as "weird" by their peer group... apart from AW. I wonder if this sealed her fate?

I still believe there is considerably more to this case (facts and people) than has been hitherto apparent.
 
I agree with you, ICS. Given the nature of the case, I think there's quite a bit we haven't heard - and perhaps may never hear. Which is fine, I don't need the gory details.

I have a lot of the same concerns as yourself, that this case shouldn't be tried in the media. And frankly, I'm not sure it's the best thing for the victim to be doing media rounds. I'm seeing shades of the Sarah Maynard (OH) whose family's bodies were stuffed in the tree (check out her thread for how that media circuit went down, poor thing), and I don't like it.
 
Given the nature of the case, I think there's quite a bit we haven't heard - and perhaps may never hear. Which is fine, I don't need the gory details.

I was rather thinking of the factors that may have contributed to this terrible event actually happening, and the lessons that can be learned from these factors. In particular:

1. Sophistication and effect of social media and new Internet genres

It was immediately obvious that few parents (myself included) understood the nature and effect of the media genre of which "Slender Man" is a part. Thirty minutes browsing forums illustrates many kids of that age - and older - really do believe that Slender Man exists or at least aren't sure. Consider the effect of that coupled with a child who is developing an early-onset schizophrenic disorder. When there are Internet bottom feeders who think it fun to wind these kids up, even a slightly sophisticated Internet prank would seem horribly real.

2. Kids immerse themselves in the Internet to a far greater extent than parents realize

Both time spent and the nature and range of the content is staggering. AW in particular.

3. The Internet is not "read-only" it's interactive

MG was particularly naive about giving out personal details like her real name and age. In a post to YouTube last year using the pseudonym "Jenny Portmite":
I love star trek! By the way Jenny is not my real name, Morgan is. But I am 11 and could not make an account under my name.
.

The criminal complaint reads as though the notion of the Nicolet Forest came from an external source:

...they learned he lives in a mansion in the Nicolet National Park which they discovered was in Wisconsin.
Note "learned" and "discovered". From whom?

4. Education required to see and act upon red flags

While it's hard to distinguish adolescence from a mental illness, there were - I believe - specific behaviors that were unique to MG, and which should have attracted greater interest. (The sledgehammer incident, which was actually brought to the parents' attention, her eccentricity and aloofness).

I have no proof, but I feel it highly likely that the victim was aware that her friend's behavior was particularly odd. But at 12, what could she have done about it? This would be the "education for kids" part: if your buddy is acting weird - talk to someone.

5. Understanding and recognizing psychopathy AW's reaction to her MG's suggestion that they kill their friend was "...surprised but also excited..." This is NOT a normal reaction to such a suggestion. I believe she knew it. Her postings include results from 5 "online psychopath tests", which suggest that the thought had at least crossed her mind. She indicates that she scored highly on them,

Having had the personal experience of being on the wrong side of a psychopath, I've done an amount of research. Psychopathy isn't an illness, it's the way a person is wired. Saying that they are "bad" or "evil" is a bit like chastising an attack dog for biting your leg off. It's what they do. Psychopaths aren't always violent criminals or Wall Street bankers. They are also doctors, lawyers, astronauts, CEOs and top military commanders. The latest thinking is that psychopaths are capable of empathy, but they have voluntary control over it that non-psychopaths do not have. On the plus side, this enables them to make crucial, logical conditions at times of great stress or danger. On the minus side, they are not instinctively stopped from doing things that are considered wrong by society.

AW seems to be both intelligent and articulate. She MUST have known academically that attempting to kill someone would be wrong. But it just didn't register with her to be more concerned than - say - planning a robbery. It didn't seem to be a hell of a price to pay to attempt to prove that Slender Man was real. A psychopath with erroneous beliefs regarding what's real and not real is not good.

Contributing factors

These are IMHO, of course, and because I've neither seen nor ready anything that shows a simpler more readily understandable motive.

- The trauma of starting middle school
- A new immersive genre that many kids cannot differentiate from reality, with Slenderman as the central character
- A new friend (AW) who shares the same interests as MG and introduces her to Creepy Pasta and Slenderman
- MG developing schizophrenia and experiencing psychotic episodes believes that she can communicate with Slenderman and other fictional characters
- AW, also believing in Slenderman, has her belief reinforced as a result of MG's psychotic behavior
- PL questioning and perhaps criticizing MG's beliefs and behavior
- MG comes to believe that PL is the "enemy" and becomes the victim in the girls' attempt to become "proxies"
- The excitement of sharing and planning a clandestine plot
- The possibility of someone online "messing with the heads" of one or both of the suspects
- PL agreeing to go to MG's sleepover even though she has concerns about (and is perhaps scared by) MG's behavior (my conjecture based on "I hate you! I trusted you!")
- MG loses the final weak grip she had on her sanity and actually does stab PL, encouraged by AW who lacks the empathy that would have stopped
the whole affair before it started

If I'm right, what happened was due to an unfortunate concatenation of unusual circumstances... not willful cruelty.
 
20/20 is on now .. Thought I would remind you guys ..
 
His is a very good and respectful account so far. Well done 20/20
 
I didn't see the show, but ABC posted a very good article. While it has to repeat much of what is already known for the sake of completeness, there is important new detail:

- the issues and deterioration of the relationship between MG and PL
- PL wanting nothing to do with Creepy Pasta and Slender Man
- PL believed that MG actually knew Slender Man
- it sounds like MG alone did the stabbing

I agree with appleeye: Well done ABC. I did not have high hopes for the report, but I was wrong. And that's good.

Here's the link: http://abcnews.go.com/US/slender-ma...ts-describe-horrific-ordeal/story?id=25787516

Incredibly sad.

ETA

...pity about some of the the rabid comments posted under the article, though.
 
Thanks ICS, you are doing an amazing job staying on top of this.
 
Thanks ttcRider!

For some reason, even though the victim survived (thank God), this story really got under my skin and I'm not sure why that is. My immediate thought was "how on earth could this have happened?" and nothing that's come to light since the attack has really answered that satisfactorily. I feel like there's something missing that's terribly important to know to forestall future occurrences of this kind of violence.

It's astounding that TWO apparently intelligent 12 year old girls, with no prior issues reported attempted to carry out their plan at all. No-one noticed anything odd - not even PL - until it was suggested that they play in the woods.

PL came across on the show as a sweet and very trusting person, still a little girl. I think PL was dominated by MG who showed an utter lack of respect for PL's trust, which MG expected as her due. (From MG's statement: "...people that trust you are very gullible..."). In abc's text article, PL's mother mentioned that MG was "... becoming more controlling...", as well as there having been disagreements that had upset PL greatly. I got the impression that PL was then expected to be the one to patch things up when this happened.

At the beginning of 6th grade, AW is a new student, and introduces MG to Slender Man. MG becomes obsessed and expects her best friend to follow suit. PL wants none of it and tells MG so. It's not hard to imagine MG getting upset with PL for rejecting something important to MG, who then decides that she will kill PL.

I wonder if MG's relationship with AW had MG in a similar dominant role. AW seems to be (from reports) easy going and perhaps anxious to fit into her new school. When MG mooted the idea, I don't really think AW thought it would ever actually happen and wound up swept along in the momentum of events. AW may have been terrified of MG who only lived a short walk away. I think we'll know more about AW when her competency hearing is held.
 
According to the court records, it looks like MG is actually being treated at Winnebago Mental Health. The court entry following the judges decision to commit her for treatment (2 months ago to the day) had her returned to West Bend Secure Detention where she and AW had been held since the attack took place.

The fact that MG's daily functionality was not affected enough to be noticed by anyone is going to need some explaining. Schizophreniform disorder is related to schizophrenia, but (according to what I've read) can come on rapidly, may not affect normal functioning, but does include psychosis. Another possibility (that I hope has been ruled out) is a brain tumor.
 
According to the court records, it looks like MG is actually being treated at Winnebago Mental Health. The court entry following the judges decision to commit her for treatment (2 months ago to the day) had her returned to West Bend Secure Detention where she and AW had been held since the attack took place.

The fact that MG's daily functionality was not affected enough to be noticed by anyone is going to need some explaining. Schizophreniform disorder is related to schizophrenia, but (according to what I've read) can come on rapidly, may not affect normal functioning, but does include psychosis. Another possibility (that I hope has been ruled out) is a brain tumor.

I wonder if people didn't really notice, but chalked things up to a "phase" or didn't take it seriously?

Take it with a grain of salt, not a verified lawyer on here - we had a case with a teen who was a bit older than MG, where a lot of the significant symptoms of mental illness were chalked up teenage moodiness, or a phase, or being an "odd kid." Both parents and school saw some things, but not others, and didn't really communicate with each other because they were downplaying in their mind what they saw. A lot of things that were actually pretty big red flags were easily brushed off not only by the parents, but the school teachers and administration.

I think a lot of people are more likely to jump to pre-teen/teen phases, rather than mental illness, because mental illness still seems so stigmatized. It's not even a conscious choice, I don't think. So things like being fascinated by magic/vampires/whathaveyou, going by a different name, etc. are unfortunately downplayed, when if you add them all up, could be a sign of schizophrenia/multiple personality disorder/borderline personality disorder/etc.
 
I wonder if people didn't really notice, but chalked things up to a "phase" or didn't take it seriously?

AnaTeresa - I think that's exactly it: behavior at that age IS "normally" anything between a tad eccentric to worryingly bizarre... so it probably isn't surprising that what in hindsight will be seen as red flags went unnoticed. Seems like there must be an educational opportunity here. We have 4 girls ages 12, 12, 13, and 14, locked up in 3 different states, all of whom surprised their victims with their violent outbursts: is this some kind of new pattern or just random?

I totally agree about mental illness still being stigmatized, and in some cases held to be an excuse for "being evil" (whatever that means). In this case, there doesn't seem to be any suggestion (that I'm aware of) of the Slender Man stuff being a "cover story" for some other motive. The whole "plot" was nonsense, and the girls were actually setting out on what would have been a 300+ mile journey, had they made it. Given that both were reportedly intelligent, that really only leaves some severe mental disturbance - if it wasn't so improbable, it almost seems as if they were brainwashed, given their apparently normal behavior right up until the attack.

Not really related, but I was wondering about the legal notion of "parental responsibility" when children are charged as adults? Does that "go away" as the kids are deemed to be adults?
 
The fact that MG's daily functionality was not affected enough to be noticed by anyone is going to need some explaining. Schizophreniform disorder is related to schizophrenia, but (according to what I've read) can come on rapidly, may not affect normal functioning, but does include psychosis. Another possibility (that I hope has been ruled out) is a brain tumor.

Have any sources mentioned schizophrenia? If not, perhaps it could be bipolar disorder?
The description of her behaviour, such as believing she has special powers, babbling on about unicorns and laughing hysterically to herself, makes me think perhaps it could be a manic episode. I've also read that in children bipolar disorder doesn't usually follow the same sort of pattern it does in adults - the mood shifts can be very rapid and short-lived, so maybe as others have said the adults just chalked it up to normal preteen moodswings coupled with an overactive imagination. And obviously this is completely subjective, but when when I look at her mugshot she looks manic to me - she looks like she's away with the fairies, poor kid.
JMO.
 
It is very obvious these two girls are "disturbed", adopting fantasy over reality. I hope they get the help they need.
 
The competency reports for AW - unlike those for MG - do not appear to agree. The psychologist for the state did not agree with the assessment of the defense psychologist: the reasons for this are not public record. There will be a contested competency hearing which has been scheduled for 18th December.

My belief is that MG had existing mental health issues that were kicked into high gear due to her association with AW and the Slender Man stories. I think this led to tension and fights between her and the victim who seems to have what might be called mainstream interests for a girl of her age. In fact, MG - using a Google+ account under a pseudonym - teased the victim about being mainstream about 4 weeks prior to the attack. The victim did not respond.

The criminal complaint seems to indicate that MG was undergoing a psychotic episode at the time of the attack. AW refers to her having a "nervous breakdown" during the attempt to attack the victim in the bathroom. MG's testimony is very sparse and it almost reads like she was told what happened afterward by AW. In the information she did provide, there are major discrepancies between her statements and those of AW. Of particular note is her recall of the aftermath of the event:

"Geyser stated they ran up the road and they saw a police officer had come to the scene and they were hiding in the woods."

They were in fact arrested near an on-ramp to I-94 some hours later: by the time the police arrived at the scene the girls were long gone.

If AW is not found incompetent, her defense will have 2 major challenges to address:

Premeditation The stated reason for the girls being charged as adults (in which the judge has discretion) was the apparent long planning of the attack. The defense could argue that the "plan" was wholly impractical, and in reality was a macabre game of chicken in which AW and MG were seeing how far they could move the plan along before one of them got cold feet. Unfortunately, due to her mental issues, MG was not going to be the first to do so because she believed the plan and supporting motive to be real.

AW could have prevented the attackOnce she realized that MG was in earnest about killing the victim (which seemed to have happened only when they were on their way to the park: "I thought, dear God, this was really happening") AW could and should have done something to stop the attack. Why did she not do so? Perhaps she was terrified that MG (who had the knife) would attack her instead, although there is no indication that this is the case. The state could simply say that she had a vested interested in the demise of the victim - she could then have MG as her best friend exclusively.

MG has been undergoing treatment, and is due back in court court on 11/12. At the time the hearing was set (August) she was deemed to be "likely to become competent".
 
ICS, thanks from me also for keeping on top of this case and also your many astute thoughts and observations, with which I mostly agree.

My one major point of dissent is that I believe AW had a much bigger part in this, even if she did not do most of the stabbing. To me, she comes across as very possibly being the instigator - and we've all known people like that, who will egg others on and then sit back while they take the brunt of the blame. I think AW very probably was all about driving a wedge between MG and her former best friend, and it all rolled downhill from there - but yeah, without direct hands-on influence from AW, both prior to and during the crime, I doubt MG would ever have picked up the knife.
 
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