GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

[arielilane]

Who? The teens? I would say so. MOO

No, my question was about he (being NM) having a psychotic disorder? moo

 

[arielilane]

...

After some concerns over witness sequestration that prompted the judge to read instructions to the Spanish-speaking witnesses, Ariel Chaguez Leyet took the stand to testify. He is the 35th witness to testify, and the last of the witnesses who require an interpreter. Ariel is another witness called out of order by the defense to accommodate the interpreter. He's the second defense witness.

Ariel is cousins with Ernesto, and he has known Miu for a little over five years, he testified. He said Miu has a character of "peacefulness."



Ariel was part of Miu's tubing group on July 30, 2022. His girlfriend dropped his phone in the river while tubing down the Apple River, prompting Miu to go looking for it with the snorkel — swimming in the direction the water was flowing, Ariel testified. The phone wasn't found that day, but Ariel does have his phone now — police found it and it was returned to him, Ariel testified.


Ariel testified Miu's wife said Miu was in trouble, so his girlfriend told him to go look to see what was going on. Ariel said he walked downriver toward where Miu was. Ariel testified he saw Miu getting bullied by a group of young people, who were hitting him and threw his snorkel. Someone then pushed him down and hit him but then Miu "defended" himself, Ariel testified.


Ariel testified it happened quickly and there was a lot of blood, noting it was hard to make sense of what he was seeing and what was happening. Ariel made his way back to the group, and Miu eventually made his way back to the tubes as well.

...

Apple River stabbing trial Day 5: Miu's friend testified, he 'defended' himself

The trial of Nicolae Miu, the man accused of the deadly stabbing on the Apple River in 2022, continues Friday with witness testimony, a day after testimony that included the release of body camera footage and law enforcement accounts of the investigation.

www.fox9.com

Updated April 5, 2024 6:33pm CDT

 

[arielilane]

Link is a nice reference: slideshow of victims, groups, witnesses, seated (no pics, of course) jury

Apple River stabbing trial: Key players in Nicolae Miu's trial

The trial of Nicolae Miu, the man accused of the fatal 2022 stabbing on the Apple River, began on April 1. Here's a look at the key players in the trial.

www.fox9.com

 

[mickey2942]

Some have speculated that the older jurors may side with the defense. But I don't think they'll appreciate his lies to LE or how glassy-eyed drunk he got.moo Any thoughts?

I would say, that I was sympathetic to the perpetrator, after the first witness. But, as I read more about this case, I changed my mind.

But it wouldn't surprise me to have a split jury in this case.

 

[Kakidoll]

No, my question was about he (being NM) having a psychotic disorder? moo

from what i've read, he's never been in trouble before. Had the quad bypass a few years ago.

However the boys reputations from school and classmates were that they were entitled athletes and bullies. 17 and a BAC of over 2. is def. a red flag. I believe they were much more inebriated than the 52 yr old with health issues.

Had he not lied to police and played those games after, i'd have given him more credibility as to being in 'shock' of what he did. I want to hear from him on the stand... I do believe he was scared. I hope more comes out about how he 'stabbed'.. was it wild flailing or intentional towards certain people? Were some struck as he was falling? It all happened so fast. I also have not seen the part of the trial where each injury was described at the very start. I thought they said that the boy who has the horrible scar had multiple infections and had to go back into surgery. I'm wondering if the initial stab was much smaller. Locationwise a slice to the colon would cause all sorts of issues..

 

[bobbymkii]

Defense are definitely trying to introduce a character for peacefulness with the witnesses wherever they can.

I'm also wondering about the legality of the knife as there's no specific charge for possessing the pocket-knife, suggesting that him possessing that knife in that place at that time was not in itself illegal? As opposed to Kyle Rittenhouse who did have a weapons charge in his indictment, but that was dropped before the jury deliberated, which was (IMO) a gamechanger as the fact he was in legal possession of that firearm must have led the jury to believe he had a legal right to use it with deadly force in order to defend himself.

Apologies if any of you are getting fed up of me constantly comparing the US to the UK (where I am from) in this thread, but it is honestly the best way for me to understand this case!

If this crime had happened in the UK, NM would have almost certainly faced a weapons charge too. There is no way his excuse that he brought the knife with him in order to cut strings to tie the inner tubes together would make his possession of the blade legal. Our authorities would say he should have brought scissors or anything less liable to cause serious harm or death to another human being.

 

[mickey2942]

Defense are definitely trying to introduce a character for peacefulness with the witnesses wherever they can.

I'm also wondering about the legality of the knife as there's no specific charge for possessing the pocket-knife, suggesting that him possessing that knife in that place at that time was not in itself illegal? As opposed to Kyle Rittenhouse who did have a weapons charge in his indictment, but that was dropped before the jury deliberated, which was (IMO) a gamechanger as the fact he was in legal possession of that firearm must have led the jury to believe he had a legal right to use it with deadly force in order to defend himself.

Apologies if any of you are getting fed up of me constantly comparing the US to the UK (where I am from) in this thread, but it is honestly the best way for me to understand this case!

If this crime had happened in the UK, NM would have almost certainly faced a weapons charge too. There is no way his excuse that he brought the knife with him in order to cut strings to tie the inner tubes together would make his possession of the blade legal. Our authorities would say he should have brought scissors or anything less liable to cause serious harm or death to another human being.

Odd. Because basically everyone I know has a pocket knife. I have several, including 2 on my Keychain.

My son, has more knives on him, one in his pocket, a big one in his boots, good grief, I can't believe it when he empties his pockets!

Don't folks in UK carry knives? Even a Swiss army knife?

 

[bobbymkii]

Don't folks in UK carry knives? Even a Swiss army knife?

Knife crime is a massive, hot button political issue here.

A swiss army knife is probably OK, as long as it has a tiny blade. But a pocket knife like the one Nic had, absolutely no chance! If the police catch you carrying that in public you're going to need an incredibly good excuse for having it.

And this case perfectly demonstrates why knives can be more dangerous than guns, because it is a discreet, silent weapon. NM was surrounded by 13 people and none of them noticed he had a knife until 5 people had been stabbed, one of them fatally.

 

[bobbymkii]

Odd. Because basically everyone I know has a pocket knife. I have several, including 2 on my Keychain.

My son, has more knives on him, one in his pocket, a big one in his boots, good grief, I can't believe it when he empties his pockets!

Don't folks in UK carry knives? Even a Swiss army knife?

This is what happens when you get caught in the UK with a knife much smaller than Nic's:

"Oh hello Mr Niall!"

 

[Tippy Lynn]

from what i've read, he's never been in trouble before. Had the quad bypass a few years ago.

However the boys reputations from school and classmates were that they were entitled athletes and bullies. 17 and a BAC of over 2. is def. a red flag. I believe they were much more inebriated than the 52 yr old with health issues.

Had he not lied to police and played those games after, i'd have given him more credibility as to being in 'shock' of what he did. I want to hear from him on the stand... I do believe he was scared. I hope more comes out about how he 'stabbed'.. was it wild flailing or intentional towards certain people? Were some struck as he was falling? It all happened so fast. I also have not seen the part of the trial where each injury was described at the very start. I thought they said that the boy who has the horrible scar had multiple infections and had to go back into surgery. I'm wondering if the initial stab was much smaller. Locationwise a slice to the colon would cause all sorts of issues..

From what I’ve seen of the stabbings on video nobody was struck or stabbed as NM was falling.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Not a lawyer and not sure, but if it was the defense ‘unforced’ error (or who knows, maybe a deliberate act?), it would seem that they couldn’t raise it on appeal? IDK. MOO

Ineffective counsel comes to mind.

To prove a criminal defendant recieved ineffective counsel they must show two things:

1. Deficient performance by counsel
2. Resulting prejudice, in that but for the deficient performance, there is a "reasonable probability" that the result of the proceeding would have differed.

INAL - JMO

 

[bobbymkii]

Ineffective counsel comes to mind.

To prove a criminal defendant recieved ineffective counsel they must show two things:

1. Deficient performance by counsel
2. Resulting prejudice, in that but for the deficient performance, there is a "reasonable probability" that the result of the proceeding would have differed.

INAL - JMO

I don't really see how this particular issue would be ineffective counsel for Nic. If anyone benefited from this oversight it would be Nic's defense as the witnesses that did not observe the sequestration order were part of his group?

IA(also)NAL

 

[AnyNameIWish]

A swiss army knife is probably OK, as long as it has a tiny blade. But a pocket knife like the one Nic had, absolutely no chance! If the police catch you carrying that in public you're going to need an incredibly good excuse for having it.

If you hear the testimony of the nurse who aided and was giving CPR to the 17yo who died, she says her husband carries a similar knife. It's not unusual to have one on the river while rafting since you use paracord/rope to tie your inner tube together for the day on the water, you'll need one after the day is over so you can easily get the tubes out of the river. (Otherwise you have to lift all 8 tubes out together)

NM didn't have the knife with him with intention to kill someone that day.

Moo

 

[bobbymkii]

If you hear the testimony of the nurse who aided and was giving CPR to the 17yo who died, she says her husband carries a similar knife. It's not unusual to have one on the river while rafting since you use paracord/rope to tie your inner tube together for the day on the water, you'll need one after the day is over so you can easily get the tubes out of the river. (Otherwise you have to lift all 8 tubes out together)

NM didn't have the knife with him with intention to kill someone that day.

Moo

I guess I have the answer I need for now, so thanks for your help! Although I can think of numerous items with less potential to cause serious harm to a human being which would have done the same job of cutting the ropes, the jurisdiction of the state of Wisconsin will not be too hot on him for having the knife on his person in the first place.

But the facts of what he ultimately did with the knife and then tried to explain/lie away his actions are another matter entirely.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

Is this wrong? In chrono order:

1. Group of 17 yr old boys yelling at an unfit middle aged guy, laughing and mocking him and calling him a paedophile and "raper" (not rapper)
1a) thanks. Adding
At some point (seen on video), NM makes physical contact with inner tubes of the teen group, touching(?) legs of some of the boys. No words exchanged, the idea is that NM is looking for a cell phone in a plastic pouch.
2. Another group of 6 young adults approach this group of 8 to "check it out"
3. Adult Female is seen in video very close to NM, everyone seems to agree she was yelling expletives and at some point, she has her left hand on his right arm/shoulder, as seen on video.
4. Allegedly (no video) NM strikes female face (MC) with fist, even tho NM would at that point have a knife in his right hand(?) MC still has her beer and cell phone in hand, despite the alleged strike(?)
5. "You don't hit a woman" guy then hits NM multiple times, he falls into water, NM gets up, same guy hits NM again (seen on video). Laughing and cheering ensue.
6. NM begins to stab those surrounding him.

MC apparently didn't want to be on video or recorded so no one can see her testimony.
MC also deleted pic of her face/result of attack from NM, per testimony from PD. She submitted her phone for forensic download but deleted image was never found.

 

[bobbymkii]

Is this wrong? In chrono order:

1. Group of 17 yr old boys yelling at an unfit middle aged guy, laughing and mocking him and calling him a paedophile and "raper" (not rapper)
2. Another group of 6 young adults approach this group of 8 to "check it out"
3. Adult Female is seen in video very close to NM, everyone seems to agree she was yelling expletives and at some point, she has her left hand on his right arm/shoulder, as seen on video.
4. Allegedly (no video) NM strikes female face (MC) with fist, even tho NM would at that point have a knife in his right hand(?) MC still has her beer and cell phone in hand, despite the alleged strike(?)
5. "You don't hit a woman" guy then hits NM multiple times, he falls into water, NM gets up, same guy hits NM again (seen on video). Laughing and cheering ensue.
6. NM begins to stab those surrounding him.

MC apparently didn't want to be on video or recorded so no one can see her testimony.
MC also deleted pic of her face/result of attack from NM, per testimony from PD. She submitted her phone for forensic download but deleted image was never found.

The evidence that NM struck MC is not perfect by any means. I'd also add to that list the part where Nic approaches the 17 year olds (including "running" towards them as they described it) and trying to flip over their tubes including touching Jawahn and Landon (I think) somewhere in between 1. and 2. which is surely a provocative act?

Is it possible that NM could have briefly transferred the knife to his left hand to smack MC? No-one actually saw him with a knife during the incident.

I can't exactly blame Jawahn as his video has provided an extraordinary exhibit from which this entire trial has and will revolve around. But it missed one vital moment which is whether NM struck MC? All we see is that she is not wearing sunglasses that she was wearing before the alleged incident, and also when she first appears on police bodycam she says he punched her.

 

[mickey2942]

The first testimony, that I listened to, Landon W., he made it sound like they were all drunk, and saw this "pervert", old guy looking at girls underwater. So, they told him to stop.

So, he made it sound like they were the instigators of the altercation. It seemed to me, that if they had just continued tubing down the river, and ignored the perpetrator, everyone would have gone home alive.

That was my impression of the testimony.

 

[acutename]

This crime follows a similar pattern, where a drunk man approaches people, who then verbally tell him they do not like his behavior, so he responds with physical violence. He also blantantly lies to the police.

Drunk Florida man beat up after making fun of Disney World guest with Down syndrome: deputies

A Florida man was arrested after sparking a skirmish with four guests at a Walt Disney World resort bar that started after he made fun of a guest with Down syndrome, according to an arrest affidavit from the Orange County Sheriff's Office.

www.fox35orlando.com

Why are there so many older people who become physically violent when they don't like someone's words? And then feel confident lying to police about it? Is loss of impulse control related to age, or maybe pre-dementia? Or just entitlement to behave badly when upset and not take responsibility for how their actions affect others?

Are they even capable of empathy?

remember this crime?

Retired SWAT commander says man he shot dead in Florida movie theater was "out-of-control" and "looked like a monster"

Curtis Reeves, 79, testified he shot 43-year-old Chad Oulson because the younger, fitter man was cursing at him and about to attack him.

www.cbsnews.com

older person=more apprehensive and more easily threatened.... in the current case, I do not really understand why the knife wielding guy did not just say "I am looking for a cell phone," though if you are distrustful, I guess you believe the teens will just look for it themselves and then take it? IMO. It would explain why you are snorkeling in that area that you are not a pervert. IMO

 

[CrimeTheorist]

One of the teenagers in the video said that NM said he was "looking for a girl". That makes me think that he probably did try and tell them what he was looking for and they either misinterpreted what he said because of wanting to make a viral video or because they were just too drunk. JMO

 

[AnyNameIWish]

One of the teenagers in the video said that NM said he was "looking for a girl"

Yep! The teens were yelling to high heaven things like HE SAYS HE'S LOOKING FOR LITTLE GIRLS , calling him a Paedophile, Raper, over and over again to the point that the other group decided they'd intervene.

The opening statements are a good place to start. The defence are pros at this (C. Chirafisi was part of the Rittenhouse defence) and the prosecution has a lot of work cut out for them since their witnesses have varying levels of credulity.
It looks like NM removed the knife from his pocket a few moments BEFORE he was hit by Dante and fell down? I can't tell since the versions I see have that part blocked with station identification logos (angry face emoji)