GUILTY WI - Brittany Zimmermann, 21, Madison, 2 April 2008 *arrest in 2020*

[Patience]

Has anyone ever been to www.iaminvisable.com ? the reason I as is that I know of a sleuth who is very reputable named Des who posts on a site here re: serial killers etc. Apparently some think that the murders in Madison have something to do with the Zodiac murders. I warn the members here that the owner of the Cdn site is by his own admission a suspect in the murders of at least 8 sex trade worker in Alberta and has been arrested in the states for assaulting a sex trade workers there. Please be careful of the Cdn site (I would only lurk and with caution).

Anyway Des posted iaminvisable.com where there is info on the similiarities to the Madison timeline. I myself cannot view this site but maybe someone here can.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...in+madison+wisconsin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=ca


Similarity to Zodiac

Zodiac killed two people at a time with either a .38 or a 9mm, usually a couple, lovers on a lover's lane type scenario. His last in california was a taxi driver in 1969.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/river_1.html

The eight US cases in my database do not include the zodiac murders in California nor are they obviously gang related. They are from WY, TX, CO, NM and MT. Some of the ones I have may be speculated to being zodiac murders as some believe him to be active through the 1980's. Zodiac stabbed his first victim in 1966 but shot the rest. His continued writings suggest he's responsible for many more since 1966.

I recall someone on the Kare site saying that some murders in Edmonton, or one of the murders in Edmonton is on a point that lines up with Zodiac's first murder, I think the Mount Diablo murder. zodiac wrote something about radians, I still don't understand the radians thing. I read, for the first time, the large article at crime library website. Zodiac wrote a lot to the press.

Zodiac, in his writings, appeared to me to deliberately misspell many words, as if writing them pheonetically (shouldn't pheonetically some of the words have different, deeper meanings. www.iaminvisible.com is supposed to be a reported who's followed a killer since 1978 and feels the zodiac and madison, wisconsin are the same killer - and that the killer has been killing since 1912, and continues to kill. "One perpetrator, one purpose" he says. But, that's impossible to me, so how else could murders appear to be by the same person over a span of almost 100 years?

 

[mssheila]

Has anyone ever been to www.iaminvisable.com ? the reason I as is that I know of a sleuth who is very reputable named Des who posts on a site here re: serial killers etc. Apparently some think that the murders in Madison have something to do with the Zodiac murders. I warn the members here that the owner of the Cdn site is by his own admission a suspect in the murders of at least 8 sex trade worker in Alberta and has been arrested in the states for assaulting a sex trade workers there. Please be careful of the Cdn site (I would only lurk and with caution).

Anyway Des posted iaminvisable.com where there is info on the similiarities to the Madison timeline. I myself cannot view this site but maybe someone here can.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...in+madison+wisconsin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=ca


Similarity to Zodiac

Zodiac killed two people at a time with either a .38 or a 9mm, usually a couple, lovers on a lover's lane type scenario. His last in california was a taxi driver in 1969.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/river_1.html

The eight US cases in my database do not include the zodiac murders in California nor are they obviously gang related. They are from WY, TX, CO, NM and MT. Some of the ones I have may be speculated to being zodiac murders as some believe him to be active through the 1980's. Zodiac stabbed his first victim in 1966 but shot the rest. His continued writings suggest he's responsible for many more since 1966.

I recall someone on the Kare site saying that some murders in Edmonton, or one of the murders in Edmonton is on a point that lines up with Zodiac's first murder, I think the Mount Diablo murder. zodiac wrote something about radians, I still don't understand the radians thing. I read, for the first time, the large article at crime library website. Zodiac wrote a lot to the press.

Zodiac, in his writings, appeared to me to deliberately misspell many words, as if writing them pheonetically (shouldn't pheonetically some of the words have different, deeper meanings. www.iaminvisible.com is supposed to be a reported who's followed a killer since 1978 and feels the zodiac and madison, wisconsin are the same killer - and that the killer has been killing since 1912, and continues to kill. "One perpetrator, one purpose" he says. But, that's impossible to me, so how else could murders appear to be by the same person over a span of almost 100 years?

The Zodiac? That doesn't make any sense to me. I can't access the site either. It looks like they took it down..... Maybe someone else will be able to tell.

One more thing Patience.... One of the murder victims, Kevin Cobbins, was killed near- but not directly IN- the "Allied Drive" neighborhood. And Larry Gardner was killed in the heart of the allied dr neighborhood. Their stats are below. I'll explain why I think they aren't related to the other four below.
LARRY R. GARDNER, 56
Killed: Nov. 21, 2007
Cause of death: Gunshot.
Where: 2209 Cypress Way.
Arrests: None.
Status: Police are looking for two black men between 18 and 20 years old, both more than 6 feet tall. One has light skin, last seen in a dark jacket with cartoon characters on it. The other has facial hair and wore dark clothing.

AND

KEVIN K. COBBINS, 26
Killed: July 28, 2007
Cause of death: Gunshot wounds.
Where: Outside duplex at 1305 Loreen Drive on the West Side.
Arrests: None.
Status: James P. Bohanan named as suspect
______________________

The reason I think it very unlikely is..... and I wish I could be delicate about this... The neighborhoods where they were killed are near Allied Drive, Madison's "gang and high crime" area. Niether of them were killed directly in the Allied Drive neighborhood, but both areas were very close, and the neighborhoods they were killed in are almost as bad as the Allied Drive neighborhoods. These areas are considered offshoots of Allied Drive. It is not unusual, in this part of town, to hear about gunshots being heard, drive-by's, street fights/riots involving 100 people (sometimes more), and lots and lots of drugs. The reason I know this, is that- for a time- I was a dispatcher for Dane county. I took so many 911 calls from people hearing gunshots, reporting drive-by shootings, watching street riots. Every single day it was something.

But the most important reason that those two stuck out for me was that they died of gunshots. If the other murders are connected by anything, it's the way they were killed. They all died of blunt force. However, we are not sure that Kelly Nolan died that way- the police have never released her COD.

George Thomas, who died in the "motel" (if that's what you would even call the place, ick) seems like a far fetch to me too. I can't be certain, but I think I've heard that the police think the motive was drugs. But some people think there's a link. I just don't think so. That's nothing more than a hunch. He doesn't fit the general demographic of the other victims. Just a hunch though.

 

[mssheila]

Thank you MsSheila for all the work you are doing here. Yes I am sure this so called Fitzburg fella was in jail when Brittany way murdered.

I snipped your post to reply only to this part.

I read that this guy was let out on bond on sometime around September 18th, 2006, and his November 15th trial was a one day event. Aud decided to have a bench trial (no jury) and he was found guilty by Judge Markson. I would assume that means that he was not in custody from Sept 18th, 2006 to November 15th, 2007.

http://www.channel3000.com/news/9879599/detail.html
MADISON, Wis. -- Bail was set on Monday for a Madison man accused of attacking a woman in her Langdon Street apartment building last month.

Paul Aud, 33, was in Dane County Court on Monday afternoon to face charges of kidnapping, sexual assault and battery.

Bond was set at $3,000 on each count for a total of $9,000, WISC-TV reported.
<SNIP>



Here is his police sketch. I wish we had a sketch to compare it to!
http://www.channel3000.com/news/9740556/detail.html

He was just sentenced on April 25th 2008.
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/283238

FRI., APR 25, 2008 - 10:40 PM
Fitchburg man sentenced in attack on Madison woman
MATTHEW DeFOUR
608-252-6144
mdefour@madison.com
A Fitchburg man who attacked a stranger in the stairwell of her apartment building in 2006 was sentenced Friday to seven years and six months in prison.
Dane County Circuit Judge John Markson also placed Paul C. Aud, 34, on nine years and six months of extended supervision after prison. Markson found Aud guilty of second degree attempted sexual assault and substantial battery in November.
The parallels with recent unsolved homicides in Madison, apparently committed by strangers in the victims' homes, made Aud's sentencing that much more emotional.

<SNIP>

 

[nohwheregirl]

If this is true, it's a bombshell! From The Isthmus:

Four weeks after Zimmermann was murdered, her killer or killers remain at large, and little is known about the investigation. But Isthmus has been able to confirm several new details.
The most significant is that the 911 Center received a call from Zimmermann before she was killed, did not dispatch police, and then did not immediately or accurately inform the Police Department about the call after cops found her body, law enforcement officials tell Isthmus.
Sources suggest the center may have made a call-back to a wrong number, where the person who answered assured that no crisis was occurring. One source says cops might have been better situated to make a quick arrest had mistakes not been made by the 911 Center.
Over the past two and a half weeks, the 911 Center has refused requests for basic information about the calls. This week, Joe Norwick, director of the Dane County 911 Center since July, declined further opportunities to comment after being provided with a written summary of parts of this story.

I can't freaking believe this! How badly can these people screw up? This gives real reason to suspect that LE is covering up their own incompetence. ETA: It seems like The Isthmus is doing the only *real* reporting on this case lately and I applaud them. The whole article is worth reading and discussing.


Also, I realized last night that the Mental Health Center of Dane County is about a block away from Brittany's home. I had totally forgotten it was there. I don't remember any problems when I lived in that area, but there was a shooting there yesterday.
http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/284111

The Zodiac theory could not be more far-fetched, IMO.

Also, I didn't realize Aud was the suspect in that Langdon Street attack. I had wondered about that, because it was such a scary crime.

 

[MaddieSue]

Hi, everyone. This is my first post, but I've been reading these forums for awhile. I was shocked to read the article in the Isthmus this morning and wanted to post a link, but I see someone has already done that. This news is so sad and frustrating.

My understanding is that local law enforcement does not run the 911 center -- that it is run by the county. Does anyone know if this is true? If that's the case, then I don't necessarily think it's any sort of cover-up on law enforcement's part...but it sure sounds like the 911 Center doesn't want to admit fault. I do understand why a lot of people are frustrated with this case and law enforcement so far. Kudos to this investigative reporter. I completely understand that they cannot release some important details, but the lack of information can be frustrating. At the very least, they need to improve their PR to at least appease the public and keep the story out there.


ETA
Looks like there will be a briefing this morning:

http://wkow.madison.com/News/index.php?ID=21123

The Public Safety Communications Director will brief the media this morning addressing reports that the 911 Center mishandled a call from murdered UW student Brittany Zimmermann before her death.

A report in today's Isthmus newspaper reports the 911 Center got a call from Zimmermann before she died, but dispatch did not tell police, and they did not correctly tell the police about the call after her body was found by her fiance.

 

[Ang50]

http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=5/1/2008&id=39112

911 call should have triggered dispatch

Madison - A cell phone call placed by Brittany Zimmermann should have triggered the dispatch of a police officer, but police were not notified of the call, Madison Police Chief Noble Wray said today.

Zimmermann, 21, of Marshfield, was killed April 2 in her apartment in downtown Madison and later found by her fiance in the apartment they shared.

Police said they found out about Zimmermann's call while investigating her slaying, then brought it to the attention of Dane County 911 officials.


Much more at link...

 

[MaddieSue]

That police were not even notified is outrageous. If what he is saying is true, then someone needs to be held accountable.

Noble Wray contradicts Dane County 911 Center on Brittany Zimmermann case
Madison police chief says he's asked for probe into why officers were not dispatched, in violation of policy

But Wray released a statement saying “there is evidence in the call, which should have resulted in a Madison police officer being dispatched.”

Link: http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php?article=22515

The website for the Isthmus http://www.thedailypage.com and http://www.madison.com (WI State Journal and Cap Times) are good sources of information.

 

[nohwheregirl]

I cannot tell you how angry I am about this whole situation, especially after reading this article:

Norwick denied the 911 Center has tried to cover up the operator's oversight, despite the month that has passed since Zimmermann was killed.
"I don't think there is anything to apologize for at this time," he said.

Also, this is not just an isolated incident or just a 911 Center problem. This is a systemic problem:

In a 2007 memorandum to the dispatch center, the Madison Police Department said dispatchers should not notify police for routine 911 cellular hang-ups.
But "if the dispatcher has reason to believe that police services are needed, appropriate police resources shall be dispatched to the area the cell phone call was made from," the memo said.
Norwick said the dispatcher got busy with other calls and forgot to call back to Zimmermann's phone.
"Other 911 calls were waiting," he said.
"But had we called it back and got the same result — or if we got somebody's voice mail — we probably wouldn't have sent anybody anyway," Norwick said.
The center may be able to determine the origin of a cell call within a city block or several miles, he said.

This is a college town. Most students don't even have land lines in their apartments, including me!! I'm outraged that if I made a call to 911, it would be consisdered a low-priority at best.

 

[mssheila]

Hi, everyone. This is my first post, but I've been reading these forums for awhile. I was shocked to read the article in the Isthmus this morning and wanted to post a link, but I see someone has already done that. This news is so sad and frustrating.

My understanding is that local law enforcement does not run the 911 center -- that it is run by the county. Does anyone know if this is true? If that's the case, then I don't necessarily think it's any sort of cover-up on law enforcement's part...but it sure sounds like the 911 Center doesn't want to admit fault. I do understand why a lot of people are frustrated with this case and law enforcement so far. Kudos to this investigative reporter. I completely understand that they cannot release some important details, but the lack of information can be frustrating. At the very least, they need to improve their PR to at least appease the public and keep the story out there.


ETA
Looks like there will be a briefing this morning:

http://wkow.madison.com/News/index.php?ID=21123

Welcome to WS MaddieSue!
Local law enforcement does not run the 911 center, Dane County runs the operations center. I used to work there, and I absolutely CANNOT believe this.

If she called on a cell phone, the last I heard- dane county 911 doesn't have the capability to track exact locations of cell phones. But the policy is- if they call on a landline and hang up- an officer is sent no matter what the person says on a call back.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Nothing surprises me anymore about MPD and their incompetence. Now...because the callers are using a cell phone...they aren't going to respond?! When someone calls 911 on a cell phone....it didn't accidently happen. Outside of a child playing with a phone, my opinion is that someone actually put the numbers in and hit send with the specific purpose of reaching out for help. MPD appears to be one of the worst departments I have ever seen. Wray needs to be fired and they need to clean house!!

 

[KR2tonenow]

To no end...do we hear about fumble after fumble. It's important now for the citizens and the community to start getting some more competent persons in office. This seems to be an ongoing problem for WIS.

I think parents should send there UA students to another state. Maybe then with the impact hitting University enrollment, will the State realize that monies spent on LE and the DA's office need to be allocated ASAP, and furthermore the firing of person's who do not fulfill their duties whether emergency or 911 operators.

I heard the other day on NG, in another city, where the 911 dispatcher fell asleep!

 

[earthacademy]

This is just awful. My heart goes out for the family.
Hopefully the Denise Amber Lee Act will pass to all the states! they all need some major structure and accountability. :furious:

 

[MCDRAW]

I saw an accident the other day, I tried to call 911 on my cell phone. It kept telling me it wasn't a working number. I had to drive to a police department to tell them about the accident.

 

[nohwheregirl]

Here's where the confusion comes from on last weeks original report that the 911 dispatcher called Brittany's phone back. They actually did tell police that there was a call back on Brittany's phone and that two men answered. Here's the new info in an article from the Wisconsin State Journal:

The dispatcher had two other calls waiting and forgot to place a return call to Zimmermann's cell phone, as 911 center protocols require, Falk said.
What officials didn't say until today was that shortly after the incident the 911 center erroneously told Madison police the dispatcher called Zimmermann's cell phone back and reached two males. That led police to believe the two male voices were on Zimmermann's phone.
Almost two weeks later, the 911 center reviewed telephone company logs for that day and discovered there were two different calls, and the dispatcher had actually reached the two men while calling back on a hang-up call from another phone that came in after the one from Zimmermann's.
The two males who answered told the dispatcher the hang-up call was a mistake.
"In the initial stage of the investigation 911 officials told Madison investigators inaccurately that the call back to the two males had gone to Ms. Zimmermann's phone," Falk said.
"The police were extremely interested in finding the two male respondents and focused some investigative efforts on that call back and the two males. ... We now know this second call had no connection to the first call."
Police did not learn until April 15 that the two males were never on Zimmermann's phone, only discovering the fact after the 911 center reviewed telephone company logs.
Falk repeated several times that Madison police instructed her not to reveal any details about the noises in the call, its length or the time it was received.

At this point, it would be newsworthy if the MPD or Dane County didn't screw something up. Also, why would two men talk to the 911 dispatcher? Was this on one callback or two? I still think we're not getting the whole story.

MPD has probably spent countless hours on a wild goose chase looking for these two guys. I wonder if they thought these were the two crack addicts that keep coming up in the news paper articles.

 

[MaddieSue]

They are now reporting that the callback was made to a Middleton number, and those two men were not connected with the Zimmermann case. Sounds like the 911 Center sent MPD on a wild goose chase. I'm not sure how much resources were devoted to following this lead.

Although no connection to this case has been established, I thought I'd post this link to an article in the Isthmus re: the Marino murder (and it does mention Brittany). This is the same reporter who broke the Zimmermann 911 story.

Did Madison cops miss chance to catch Joel Marino killer?
Witness says he saw suspect again, but police didn't seem to care
Jason Shepard on Thursday 05/08/2008 http://www.isthmus.com/isthmus/article.php?article=22569#articleComments, (3) Recommendations

A key witness in the Joel Marino murder investigation says he saw Marino's killer walking along West Shore Drive six weeks ago, but he believes police did not take his call seriously.

http://www.isthmus.com/isthmus/article.php?article=22569

 

[philamena]

How are her parents surviving.
msshelia,
Kudos for doing a fine job keeping this case alive.:clap::clap:

 

[eve]

I cannot tell you how angry I am about this whole situation, especially after reading this article:



Also, this is not just an isolated incident or just a 911 Center problem. This is a systemic problem:

This is a college town. Most students don't even have land lines in their apartments, including me!! I'm outraged that if I made a call to 911, it would be consisdered a low-priority at best.

I agree, I am absolutely furious. Most kids don't have land lines anymore. In fact, the way people use cell phones today, there is no excuse for this whatsoever.

Eve

 

[mssheila]

Nothing surprises me anymore about MPD and their incompetence. Now...because the callers are using a cell phone...they aren't going to respond?! When someone calls 911 on a cell phone....it didn't accidently happen. Outside of a child playing with a phone, my opinion is that someone actually put the numbers in and hit send with the specific purpose of reaching out for help. MPD appears to be one of the worst departments I have ever seen. Wray needs to be fired and they need to clean house!!

Hi SS! Long time no see. And Philamena, thanks for the kudos! Since Kelly Nolan's murder, and the evidently botched investigation, I've been watching the MPD like a hawk.

Accidental 911 calls from cell phones are a multiple-times-a-day occurrance at any 911 center. People program 911 into their speed dial, and then hit it by accident. It actually happens more from cell phones than landlines.

I have been out of town for over a week, but I heard about this news in South Dakota (where I was). This is a big deal. And along with the news of the second sighting of Joel Marino's murderer (and getting no police response)... I'm really angry. I truly believe that because of these fumbles by the 911 center and the police, THAT is why we never hear anything about the investigations. I'm telling you guys- they're covering everything up. They're trying to hide their complete ineptitude from the public. They didn't ever want us to know just how much they've screwed up all these investigations.

Even after saying all that- I'm telling you- I can't help but feel bad for this dispatcher. Only because I worked there- and I know how they run things... I don't know how to describe what I really want to say, but this dispatcher is a product of her training. This giant mess is not something she should be 100&#37; individually responsible for. The Dane County 911 center's training program is a cluster-you-know-what. They teach one contradiction after the next, and then they expect perfect consistency. I've said this about the center for years...... This is why I'm not even about to blame this dispatcher completely and solely.

 

[mssheila]

You could have blown me over with a feather when I read this next article. Finally, it seems, people are taking notice of what appears to the public to be a cover-up by law enforcement. What are they covering up? All of their mistakes- from the 911 center to the street cops- and how they are in CYA mode now. I'm taking some quotes from the article and after each one, I will do this "......" Here's some snips from this article:

http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/article.php?article=22513

....And then, today, the press conference held in response to Isthmus’ article reporting that UW-Madison student Brittany Zimmermann made an unanswered 911 call for help on the day that she was beaten and stabbed to death.....
<SNIP>

....The speaker was 911 Center director Joe Norwick, a former high-ranking Sheriff’s Office official. But the show was the reporters in the room, and their clear collective sense that Norwick was trying to give us a snow job....
<SNIP>

....Not answered was the question of what, if anything, Brittany Zimmermann told the dispatcher before the line went silent, what time the call was received and how long it lasted, when the 911 center told Madison police that it had received this call and whether this disclosure was made voluntarily or in response to questions from police....
<SNIP>

.....The reporters in the room weren’t buying it. They conveyed a belief, in their every question and gesture, that details were not being withheld to protect the investigation but to protect the 911 Center.....
<SNIP>

.....At one point, Isthmus editor Marc Eisen asked if Norwick was concerned that the center’s handling of this matter and his refusal to be more forthcoming might be seen as a cover-up.
"I’m always concerned," he replied. "But that’s not the case."
You could have fooled the people in the room. Or maybe, for once, you couldn’t.
<SNIP>

 

[mssheila]

A bit of news in this case...

http://www.channel3000.com/news/16256610/detail.html

Media Outlets Announce Open-Record Suit Concerning 911 Case

Madison, Milwaukee Organizations Seek Compliance With Requests


UPDATED: 10:23 pm CDT May 13, 2008
MADISON, Wis. -- Four television and newspaper media organizations filed a lawsuit on Tuesday against Dane County, the city of Madison and Madison Police Department as part of an effort to obtain open records information concerning the county's 911 system and the investigation into a University of Wisconsin-Madison student's death.
<SNIP>