Identified! WI - Delafield, WhtMale, UP7632, car stolen, lighter, Sep'77 - John Lindberg Scott

[carbuff]

The detective told me that there weren't any escaped prisoners, patients, military, or missing persons that fit the description in '77. Not that it isn't impossible that someone slipped through the cracks...

A couple of things regarding Mr. Welsh that we need to figure out.

1. Uncircumcised
2. Scar on the backside of the right hand over the thumb.
3. Small scar on the upper, outer edge of the left knee.

The detective feels strongly that the John Doe was local, while they very could be wrong, Canada may be a stretch...though not impossible.

I didn't mean that he had escaped. I meant that after a period of treatment, he had been recently released.

 

[masnitram]

I didn't mean that he had escaped. I meant that after a period of treatment, he had been recently released.

My apologies carbuff, I wasn't trying to come off harsh.

And yes...that is entirely plausible that he was released from a mental heath clinic/center etc...

Just reiterating some things I brought up in threads way back based on my chat with the Waukesha Co. Sheriff.

 

[nerosleuth]

Unfortunately the finger print card was reportedly lost years ago.

I was thinking that if there was a unid body, wouldn't there be two sets of fingerprint cards?

Wouldn't LE would have one set and ME would have the other set?

I thought that depending upon the condition of the unid's body, it would have fingerprints, dentals, and morgue photos in the unid's ME's case file.

I was under the impression that the ME's case file of a unid body would have as much info as possible about the unid to aid present and future investigators in the unid's case.

 

[masnitram]

I was thinking that if there was a unid body, wouldn't there be two sets of fingerprint cards?

Wouldn't LE would have one set and ME would have the other set?

I thought that depending upon the condition of the unid's body, it would have fingerprints, dentals, and morgue photos in the unid's ME's case file.

I was under the impression that the ME's case file of a unid body would have as much info as possible about the unid to aid present and future investigators in the unid's case.

Yes, one would hope they would have kept both sets of cards. Unfortunately when I chatted with the former Waukesha CO. Medical Examiner, she stated she never had a fingerprint card.

The good news is that the current ME has begun the process of obtaining the funds, which they have had all along, to retrieve DNA from the numerous UID's buried in Prairie View Cemetery. The link below is the case slated first on her list, our JD here is allegedly second.


https://identifyus.org/en/cases/7548

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Wow, interesting case here and an impressive amount of work being done. I wish I had some ideas, but, don't. Just anger over the initially handling of the evidence.

 

[masnitram]

Just anger over the initially handling of the evidence.

I agree, it is too bad that this person has been reduced to a manilla folder and an unmarked grave as a result of shoddy work from the get go. Hopefully more sooner then later we'll have his DNA on file with a "hit".

 

[Needtoid]

Hi, I will be sending everyone involved in these postings a private message as well. If I miss anyone, please send me a msg or reply on here. I have been studying / following the UID Delafield man case for about 6 years extensively. I read something from someone about Bernard Bunny Ross on this post or another post. I just wanted to state that I have contacted Bernard's father and his reply to me (barbara) is on another post as well. I called him and we had a chat. He sent me a photo of Bernard and then his pic was updated online as well. The father said that the photo of UID Delafield is not Bernard. I don't know if he would know for sure of that, but I have alerted the police as well but never heard back. Anyway, this case can be solved. I think it just needs more media attention. I have made several websites for him. But we can do this. If you want to join my group, I am going to be taking a vaca to WI and IL and handing out flyers. If anyone wants to help please let me know. I will also be talking to others and arranging a social marketing agenda. I will be contacting as many news stations as possible. I have already contacted them, but I need your help to push the issue! I think if this case goes on TV, it will be solved sooner. Please help me push this topic to the media. Once I get a group together of people that want to join, I will be organizing the trip to WI. (I live in NJ.) If you live too far from WI or IL or cannot travel, please let me know if you still want to join, as there are other things we can do together, such as creating flyers, or anything really. I think if we all get together we can push the issue, get it on the news, and it will be solved. I'm writing my research paper on this for my current English class, and I'm hoping to send the paper afterwards to other sources. I have been reading others' theories on what happened to this guy. Many say that he could been disowned from his family, which is why he wasn't looked for. I think this may very likely. He was involved in crime. I do have the original police report too if anyone wants to read it. There is also the concern of data entry error. It happens far too often. Also, sometimes someone will fill out a missing person report, and it somehow never gets filed. This happened in the Tawni Mazzone case. I suspect this may be a possibility as well. Also, my biggest theory is that this guy was suspected to be killed by John Gacy. It's possible his family assumed he was a Gacy victim, so they stopped looking. Also, by now, his family may not be around anymore sadly. Hopefully he has family or old friends left. The longer we wait to try to identify him, the less hope there is, because if there is anyone left that can claim him, they are aging.

 

[masnitram]

I was doing a little research on Ancestry.com and looked up every John who ever married a Lauri. While I realize that their database is by no means complete, I was able to track down favorable proof that most were alive and well...or at least accounted for. I then came across something interesting about one of the couples. Using the same tactics (and several other websites etc) at my disposal I for the life of me cannot find any current record of one of the John/Lauri couples.


In a nutshell they were married in Minnesota in 1970 both at the age of 21. I found some info that they may have lived in Chicago at some point. I found some conflicting information that this John may have lived in Chicago as late as 1992, however the address given in the file doesn't actually exist.

Not sure what do from here, but I'd like to dig further because in all honesty I cannot find anything on this John or Lauri that I find credible anywhere (other than their marriage license on Ancestry)....if anyone wants to help, give shoot me a message.

 

[masnitram]

After more digging around and exhausting myself and resources, I forwarded my findings (links, pictures, etc) regarding the missing "John" from the post above to the detective I spoke to back in 2010. I figured it couldn't hurt. I seem to have contacted him once in 2010, 2011, 2012, and now 2013; maybe yearly contact will help my credibilitylease:

 

[masnitram]

Received word from LE that the missing "John" I found on ancestry.com was located alive and well in Australia. He moved from Minnesota to Australia in the early 70's...


Back to the drawing board :rocker:

 

[tamar]

Has John Lloyd Heflin been suggested for this UID? He's newly listed on Doe Network.

 

[nerosleuth]

Has John Lloyd Heflin been suggested for this UID? He's newly listed on Doe Network.

I took a look at the case file of John Lloyd Heflin on Doe Network. One of his pictures appear to be taken when he was serving in the military. His case file indicated that he had been arrested in two different states prior to his disappearance.

John Lloyd Heflin had an arrest record, so his fingerprints would be on file. The military would also have Heflin's fingerprints on file if he ever served in any branch of the United States military.

The system would have matched Heflin's fingerprints if he had been the Delafield John Doe.

It is my understanding that the fingerprints of the Delafield John Doe did not match any prints in the system when LE ran his fingerprints in 1977.

Due to the reasons I listed above, I don't think that John Lloyd Heflin is the Delafield John Doe.

 

[tamar]

Nerosleuth, as I understand it, the fingerprinting index "systems" at that time were very limited, time consuming, and the UID would have to be a "likely match" to be considered for a comparison. John Heflin went missing in '68/ UID was located in '77, was bit out of age range for consideration against UID, and he went missing far away from where the decedent was located-- which could possibly indicate that they were never compared?

this calls to mind Corporal Robert Daniel Corriveau's 1968 missing case.

 

[masnitram]

Nerosleuth, as I understand it, the fingerprinting index "systems" at that time were very limited, time consuming, and the UID would have to be a "likely match" to be considered for a comparison. John Heflin went missing in '68/ UID was located in '77, was bit out of age range for consideration against UID, and he went missing far away from where the decedent was located-- which could possibly indicate that they were never compared?

this calls to mind Corporal Robert Daniel Corriveau's 1968 missing case.

I thought I brought up John Heflin in this thread, but I guess I was mistaken.

I contacted awhile back Therese Apel who published an article about John "Buddy" Heflin and his disappearance. I too was looking for information about a possible connection to this Doe.

This was late 2011, but the reply was

"Thanks for your email. I'm still in touch with the family on this story, so I'll pass it along to them. Buddy Heflin had women all over creation, as I understand it, so Lauri could have been anyone. There is a definite similarity in their facial structures.

I'll let you know what I find out. Wouldn't it be weird if this was the answer they've been looking for?

Thanks again!!"

I sent out another email to follow up with her. I'll update you guys accordingly.

 

[Needtoid]

From what I was told it was reported stolen around the same time our JD crashed the vehicle. Apparently the gentleman who owned the vehicle started his workday rather early in the AM; from what I was told....the vehicle was reported stolen around 4am; the detectives feel JD stole the car around 3am based on the approximately 1hr drive between Gurnee and Delafield.

I thought about Gacy earlier a connection. I did find a John Mowery who was a victim of Gacy, but from my understanding he has been identified. I may be WRONG....but I thought I found out that he didn't match the physical description at all...but again I could be wrong!

To masnitram and cubby: Wow we are all on the same page! I have been thinking the same thing, that this JD was possibly thought to be a victim of Gacy. And cubby, you said it sounds like a long shot-- I truly think that this is what happened, and that's it is not a long shot AT ALL. I think we are onto something. Gacy struck in the Illinois and Wisconsin area. In fact, he killed a boy on September 16, 1977 I think it was (if I'm not mistaken, or it could have been off a few days)... and JD died on the 14th, just a couple days prior. Word was probably flooding the local areas of a serial killer, and when JD went missing, perhaps his family was told by authorities he was likely a Gacy victim. In fact, I feel that the entire Gacy case should be re-examined. The thing is, Michael Marino was misidentified! A body, for years, was told to be Michael and years later it was told it was not Michael. Michael Marino was said to be a Gacy victim for plenty years... not anymore! The media seems hush hush about this. But it's true. So that makes me wonder how many other bodies are misidentified in general, but particularly in this Gacy case. I think it's likely there are other misidentified bodies in this case. ALSO, another HUGE factor is that of Gary Lowell. He went missing around that time , and his family was told by authorities he was likely a Gacy victim, so no missing person report was filed! And then, 30 years later, Gary Lowell was found ALIVE. He was indeed NOT a Gacy victim, as suspected. There are still other Gacy victims' bodies laying unidentified, which means that anyone who went missing (esp young men) during that time, esp in that area, is probably "assumed" to be a victim. I truly feel this is what happened. I've looked into the Gacy case extensively, and there are a few of the supposed-victims who resemble John Doe. Also, I've watched an interview in which Gacy insisted he did indeed kill 3 boys but didn't kill the 1 John Butkovich. However, JB went missing in 75 so it's likely Gacy did kill him, or perhaps since he was a serial killer, Gacy's crimes were over-extended, or applied to any case during that time and area. There is so much flawed in the Gacy case. However, I know about the priority factor, and authorities can't just up and re-examine a case, due to funding, budgets, etc. But I hope they can fit it in someday soon. Because NOT ONLY Gary Lowell re-surfaced ALIVE, but there was yet another man who was found alive who was supposedly thought to be a Gacy victim! Two people went missing from the late 70's and no missing person report was filed for either one. This also makes me wonder if it was even a known thing to file a report back then. I wasn't alive in the 70's so I don't know. But nowadays of course we have amber alerts, and when someone goes missing it's like it's all over the media (well for some people, that is!... for some, they never make it to the media). But at least nowadays I think almost everyone knows to file a report. There was also the case of Tawni Mazzone in which the family supposedly filed a report, but it was never "filed" into the police station's system or records. So the report was never really created. So much of this relates to erred practices. We cannot avoid error, and I'm not criticizing the system, because we're always going to have error- it's inevitable. But I truly think something went wrong here along the lines... there was either an error in his case , perhaps the file wasn't actually entered in the system, or maybe it was entered with the wrong date so no correlations were found to match, or maybe the error was made that he was told to be a Gacy victim, or maybe even another body was misidentified of this John Doe's identity. Otherwise, if it's not error, then that would just be even sadder- that would mean that no one is truly looking hard enough for him. If his family member or friend typed online " missing since 1977 " this case would come right up. Either that or perhaps his fam / friends don't know how to search online, or never considered it. Or what if he was from another country and his people ARE searching for him, just in another language? I have typed in google in other languages but yielded no results.

 

[Cubby]

His family may have submitted DNA but because it did not match Gacy victims it's come up as no match against all UID's with DNA on file.

Keep in mind, if our UID's family has filed a MP case and DNA is on file, it is going to come up as no match, because this UID does not yet have DNA on file.

I'm going to remain hopeful that once that DNA is entered a match is found. May be a long shot, but.....

 

[tamar]

I submitted John Heflin as a possible match and received this email response today:

My name is Detective Michael Mudlitz of the Waukesha County Sheriff’s Department, Waukesha County, Wisconsin. I recently received an e- mail, which you authored relating to information on John Doe #8616. I wanted to express my appreciation in your efforts to help law enforcement solve this particular “cold case”. I have been in contact with the lead investigator from Mississippi regarding John Lloyd Heflin and did in fact provide the investigator a photograph of John Doe #8616. Heflin’s widow/estranged wife was allowed to view the photograph. Unfortunately, no match exists.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you can provide any other credible information.



Sincerely,

Detective Michael Mudlitz
Waukesha County Sheriff’s Department

 

[tamar]

With the long time span between disappearance of Heflin, and the death of John Doe, AND with the passing decades since, I question the ability of Heflin's ex-wife to identify a body merely based on a post-mortem photo. Seems a little weak to me. I would hope there would at least be a fingerprint comparison. I don't want to tell LE how to do their job though. *shrugs*

 

[masnitram]

With the long time span between disappearance of Heflin, and the death of John Doe, AND with the passing decades since, I question the ability of Heflin's ex-wife to identify a body merely based on a post-mortem photo. Seems a little weak to me. I would hope there would at least be a fingerprint comparison. I don't want to tell LE how to do their job though. *shrugs*

Mike's a great guy, he is the detective I have referred to numerous times here. I know for certain that he takes all the tips we give him seriously.

I understand the frustration Tamar, I'm right there with you. Unfortunately for Mike, all he has to work with is the photos and the file. The evidence was destroyed long before he joined the force. Hopefully they'll exhume him soon and we'll have a DNA hit.

Also I haven't received a reply from Therese, but maybe due to the information you received I can see why not.

 

[tamar]

Masnitram, I was more referring to the Mississippi LE. Mike was quick to act and and inquire, and I think if there was any dropping of the ball it's on Mississippi's side.