AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #12

[Lillymac]

After reading other posters questions, it’s got me thinking that the perp was not at the residence prior to DC & Jayme returning from the birthday party. Why? Because I am 100% certain that the perp would have had time to confiscate any cell phones they may have had if he had been in the home when DC & Jayme arrived.
We know one of the three victims were able to call 911 at some point during this crime. So one of them still had DC’s cell phone.
I think this crime began just before the neighbors heard gun shots.
I believe other posters thought maybe JC was followed home from work (something to that affect) or the perp was waiting for JC (parked somewhere out of the way) to return from work.

MOO

From the beginning and I do not know why, I have thought he was followed home from work...

 

[Lillymac]

Doesn't that sound different then the kind of gun a hunter would use? They said it sounded like the gunshots they were used to hearing. There were only two shots heard. Multiple means two or more. We don't know how many shots there were, but since the neighbors heard only two, that's all we have to go by. Unless another type of gun was used I don't know how they would not have heard any other shots. Or they fell fast asleep and after 15 minutes may not have heard anymore. Jmo

Didn't she say the second shot was different? Like a boom and louder...

 

[sleuther0192837465]

From the beginning and I do not know why, I have thought he was followed home from work...

I’m starting to see that as a very good possibility. Do you think this was personal? I keep thinking it is & I can’t shake it. I just don’t think this was a stranger. I think one of the victims knew the perp. MOO

 

[1987]

Doesn't that sound different then the kind of gun a hunter would use? They said it sounded like the gunshots they were used to hearing. There were only two shots heard. Multiple means two or more. We don't know how many shots there were, but since the neighbors heard only two, that's all we have to go by. Unless another type of gun was used I don't know how they would not have heard any other shots. Or they fell fast asleep and after 15 minutes may not have heard anymore. Jmo

there are a number of guns a hunter might use. to say the kind a hunter would use would be like guessing the brand of paper towels someone uses.

 

[MsBetsy]

Didn't she say the second shot was different? Like a boom and louder...

She said the second one was even louder. Which makes me think that one was outside. Jmo

 

[Gumbeaux]

thank you for this...an interesting read...

I’m not seeing what is remarkable in these reviews of an employer (Jennie O), especially for a factory environment.

 

[Raccoon]

I think the perp may have banged on the door and both James and Denise went to the door. Dad wouldn't open the door, so the perp broke in the door, and shot dad killing him and shot Denise only wounding her. She was able to run to another area, attempted the 911 call and died from her wounds.
I believe all was done in total rage. Perp was mad at someone, and I believe it was James. I do Not know why he was angry with James, maybe work related.

I don't feel like anything was planned. I believe Jayme was taken on impulse. jmo

This is what I’m thinking as well. I think James was the target and this was done out of rage. And as Lillymac said, I can’t figure out why either. Work related or-sounds far fetched-but possibly a road rage type incident. Maybe James was followed home after his shift.
The reason I’m leaning this way, and not Jayme being the intended target is this...if someone wanted her, why would you show up when her Dad is home? Wouldn’t that be more of an “obstacle” or risk having to get past him to get to her? I second Lillymac also in that this was a rage (meth?), and Jayme was taken on impulse. However, wouldn’t that make the murder “sloppier” if he/she was on meth and more likely to leave a messy trail?

 

[Scrapper18]

I’ve been having trouble with the door kicked in and James found deceased in the doorway. It just doesn’t make sense. If James had opened the door, no need for the door to be kicked in. If the Perp shot James through the door and then went to kick it in, James body would be in the way of the door and would have ended up behind the door. So, what really happened?

Did James hear someone outside and got up to investigate? Maybe he was just a step from the door when it was kicked in, then he was shot. Perhaps he was shot elsewhere and dragged to the door. I'm not sure of what I think happened.

I don't think James had opened the door. I'm also having problems with the physics of the perp shooting James through the door / door window and then kicking the door in. Anyone here good with physics? Opinions?

 

[Lillymac]

I’m starting to see that as a very good possibility. Do you think this was personal? I keep thinking it is & I can’t shake it. I just don’t think this was a stranger. I think one of the victims knew the perp. MOO

I think he made someone very angry. I believe it occurred that night and they followed him home. I think everything was done in a total rage. This violence only says to me intense anger..

 

[PommyMommy]

I was just thinking they weren't together when the door was kicked in and he was shot - but if they were, you are right- she would turn and run as soon as that door was kicked in. I would. Poor Jayme she had to hear this happening IMO

I'm leaning toward her being somewhere in the background at the time James was shot. Possibly seated on or near the chair that looks splintered at the time the first shot was fired. IMO, the first shot killed James instantly. The second shot was seconds later and I think it was meant for Denise. I am not at all married to this theory and opinion subject to change at any moment... MOO

 

[photographer4]

Did you post them yet? I think it's ok as long as you include the link the original MSM video where the photos came from in your post. But it's best to send a private message to one of the mods to ask first.



I think anyone could turn a phone in without their name being made public. LE waited a long time to even bring the family into a news conference in this case so it seems like they are being cautious and would not release the name of a good Samaritan while this is an on going investigation. JMO.

I did not post them yet no. I ended up deciding not to do so - but... upthread somewhere, someone did post one that they had used their cell phone to lighten the shadows etc and it made it easier to see what was in that area....

 

[MsBetsy]

there are a number of guns a hunter might use. to say the kind a hunter would use would be like guessing the brand of paper towels someone uses.

I just never heard of a hunter using a semi automatic. I've heard mostly rifles or shotguns, which are loud, and it sounds like that's what the neighbors thought since they said they thought it was a hunter. Every time I have heard hunters shooting it always sounds the same. Rifle or shot gun. In all my life I have never heard a semi automatic so I wouldn't know what it sounds like. Except in movies , and that isn't even close to what it sounds like in real life, in terms of loudness.

 

[SandyQLS]

Yes, I do think the time may have actually said 12:58. It's easy to make the mistake especially if you are tired and since she had no reason to be concerned she would not have double checked to make sure. Or even forgotten the next morning, thinking it was 12:38 instead of 12:58. Now that you bring up the 12:30-1:30 time that LE gave, it makes even more sense. Why wouldn't they say from 12:00 from 1:30? This would certainly rule out the mystery of the twenty- five minute time span between the shots and the 911 call. Jmo

I do not believe that the neighbor was wrong about the time. I consider them indirect victims as well. LE corrected for her clock read of 12:38 back to 12:31. The 911 hangup call per the log was at 00:53:26. Then the deputy patrol cars arrive, then Barron city PD, state troopers, fire & EMS, drones, dogs, supervisors, nosy teens driving by... all this going on right next door, on their street, all night long. I don't remember when the police came knocking on their door. I doubt they got any sleep at all. She said her dog was agitated at the window, that night. She said all the police arrived with flashing lights but without sirens. I believe, based on her multiple media interviews, that she and her husband were awake, and are capable of knowing whether the gunshots they heard were 20 minutes or 2 minutes before the arrival of LE.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I have a couple questions and not sure they've been asked:

I imagine the father went to the door, hearing noises and by starting to open it, got it kicked in further by whoever was there. Does the door have a window or peephole?

One thing that is gnawing at me is the weekend that it happened. Were they, maybe just D and J planning to go out of town and decided not to? Is it true that she didn't have school on Monday?

Maybe family members can shed light on this but there is so so much we don't know.

 

[Lillymac]

This is what I’m thinking as well. I think James was the target and this was done out of rage. And as Lillymac said, I can’t figure out why either. Work related or-sounds far fetched-but possibly a road rage type incident. Maybe James was followed home after his shift.
The reason I’m leaning this way, and not Jayme being the intended target is this...if someone wanted her, why would you show up when her Dad is home? Wouldn’t that be more of an “obstacle” or risk having to get past him to get to her? I second Lillymac also in that this was a rage (meth?), and Jayme was taken on impulse. However, wouldn’t that make the murder “sloppier” if he/she was on meth and more likely to leave a messy trail?

Actually I have read meth heightens your awareness, not in a good way probably. And I have thought of road rage too.

 

[VeryVeritas]

The type of gun narrows the profile. What is it?

 

[JaneEyre]

I attended Catholic school & church my entire life, and we never had "Sunday School Classes" in our Catholic church. However, there were CCD classes held for children who attended Public School, and wanted to make their First Communion.

When I say Sunday School, I mean CCD classes. No one but a Catholic would know that CCD is essentially the same as Protestant Sunday school classes, so I used a term everyone would understand.

 

[1987]

I just never heard of a hunter using a semi automatic. I've heard mostly rifles or shotguns, which are loud, and it sounds like that's what the neighbors thought since they said they thought it was a hunter. Every time I have heard hunters shooting it always sounds the same. Rifle or shot gun. In all my life I have never heard a semi automatic so I wouldn't know what it sounds like. Except in movies , and that isn't even close to what it sounds like in real life, in terms of loudness.

most all are loud. the same gun may be more or less loud depending on the load of the shell. I personaly would associate a semi auto with a more rapid fire than the loud.

 

[Raccoon]

I think he made someone very angry. I believe it occurred that night and they followed him home. I think everything was done in a total rage. This violence only says to me intense anger..

Agreed

 

[debirlfan]

I didn't see that, but it wouldn't surprise me. I know someone official--probably the sheriff--initially called it a really brutal crime scene or something along that line. I'm sure (as is true of any rural area), they've fielded their fair share of domestic disputes gone awry, suicides, hunting accidents, etc. Based on that wording, I suspect this was a really horrifying scene beyond the gunshot wounds , and they are perhaps keeping all the disturbing details quiet so that way they can ferret out tips or confessions that are genuine.

To the best of my knowledge, we've never heard whether the mother had other injuries besides gunshot wounds. I still think that whoever did this was looking for something in the house (they may well have been at the wrong house) and that perhaps they beat or otherwise tortured the mother trying to get the information.

 

[AbbeyBabbey]

A floor plan of the house would be helpful in this scenario. Window? Direction door opens? Bathroom near a bedroom where access to mattress would be convenient? FWIW one of our bathroom doors now opens outward, since we remodeled to make the bathroom seem bigger and give more space there.

I’ve tried to keep up but will admit that I scrolled through some comments. Has a floor plan of the house been posted? I’ve looked at the county website and checked Realtor.com, Trulia and Zillow but couldn’t find one (not even a reference to square footage). Appraiser, here. I have inspected, measured and sketched thousands of houses. I have looked at photos of different views of the house. In doing so, I pictured the lay-out of the house in my mind and my theory of how the crime went down is based on that and known/reported facts.

Does anyway have a cache of all pictures posted. If so, can you post them in the “Media, Maps and Timelines” thread and alert me? I can then make a sketch/layout of a “probable” floor plan based on my professional opinion/experience.

I will alert Mods on this post to make sure it’s okay to develop a theoretical floor plan.