AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

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In general cross country speak, varsity is usually a team's top 7 runners. JV is everyone else. So when it was mentioned that Jayme wasn't always listed in race results because she was probably JV, just means that she wasn't in the Top 7 on her team. Many meets only provide official results for the "varsity" race, especially at the middle school level, although some middle school races are "Open" and everyone runs in the same race. I think it is pretty much the norm for all grades to compete together in middle school (though in IL, they separate races by grade). Some states (MN and NM for example) allow middle school athletes to play for high school teams, but I do not believe that WI is one of them. There is usually no specific age determination for JV or varsity. It really comes down to who is fastest. My MVP this year was a freshman (obviously varsity) and I have a 4 year Sr who was JV. It makes team selection very easy. As we like to say, "the clock doesn't lie".

So really, the answer is that it varies...

Varsity in MN is high school where I lived. JV were kids not good enough in high school to be on varsity. Unless there was a standout middle school kid. Then they could be JV. I don’t think Jayme was JV. She does not sound like she had the top ability.

States have different amounts of money. And different focuses on sports.

In MN where I lived, no one cared about football as a school sport. But hockey! Kids were on traveling teams at age four. That means traveling to other cities.

I think Wisconsin is football because of the Packers, a publicly owned team.

I have no idea of the running and other things such as the hurdles, etc
 
  1. I live in Connecticut and there are uncanny similarities between this crime and the Petitt family home invasion. The random targeting of the females, the breaking in and incapacitating of the fathers, the escalating brutality. I'm not saying the two are connected because they are not. But, it does show that unplanned, short term targeting of victims and brutal outcome with no apparent motive is more than possible.
Exactly. I brought up the Cheshire case in a previous thread, in order to illustrate how a random crime could occur.

In that case, the perpetrators simply spotted the mother and daughter in the grocery store, and followed them home.
 
Posters have shared some of Jayme's race times and videos. It appeared that she was more of a novice runner. One of the great things about cross country is that it is usually an inclusive, no-cut sport. As a coach, that does pose some safety challenges. We may have dozens of kids out on a route at practice, separated literally by miles. The front runners are usually fine, but our back kids can be more prone to getting separated and lost. Many of them may walk a good deal as well. As coaches, we don't leave until everyone is back and we have periodically had to go back out in cars or on bikes looking for kids. Unfortunately you hear stories of women being taken while jogging all the time. That is certainly the biggest fear. We require all our kids to wear GPS devices when they run. Some parents opt to pay for premium subscriptions on some recording sites where they can watch their kid real time or get an alert when their child's speed varies too much (ie, if they speed up too much, the implication is that they may be in a vehicle--possible against their will--instead of on foot).

Interestingly, I have gotten a few e-mails from random bystanders (such as an uncle of a runner from another team, specifically) who have been to the same race as our team who feel compelled to wax poetic about some of my slower kids--how inspirational they are, how they keep chugging away, etc. They mention the kids by name, even though they have never met them. It is easy enough to figure out from results and/or bib number. I have never gotten an e-mail about any of my superstars, though, interestingly enough...
Love your post duckduck!
There is still a poster hanging in our rec room. “Everyone is invited, not everyone shows up” That sums up the heart of XC. Just doing it is an accomplishment.
(Btw: it’s a shame about your superstars. )

On topic: i truly hope that Jayme will see a new season of running and dancing. :(
 
Yes. Afraid (and tense). There’s also a cultural factor . . . “Wisconsin Nice”. Essesntially, it’s being polite and non-confrontational. (Google it!) People in WI have their own way of going about things and it’s old school values and etiquette. In the recent election for Governor, the campaign commercials were mercenary yet when Walker and Evers debated, it was so civil it put one to sleep. Even keeled. The Sheriff’s mannerisms - perfect example of Wisconsin Nice. Don’t underestimate it, though. :)

What! I always thought it was Minnesota nice! Has Wisconsin taken rhe term! Never!
 
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I mentioned this before, but I get stuck on the initial suicide call. I realize the situation is fluid and it takes a while to get a complete picture, but I thought LE always assumed the worst arriving on scene and then backpedaled if need be. In this case, it seemed like the opposite happened. They called suicide then escalated. Especially given that they knew there was a disturbance going on just minutes before and could very likely be coming to a situation in progress. Calling a suicide seems potentially dangerous until the entire house was cleared. I did come up with your theory myself, but where would Jayme be after all this time? It would seem that she would have to get someone very close to her to hide her and that would seem hard to keep from LE after all this time. Strictly my opinion, as well.
 
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That right there tells me more than likely nobody else was in the home at that time or her sister probably would have known. So, imo nobody was there at that time other than the family. What transpired after that? Because of the timeline given us by LE of looking for the cars to be seen in the area (12:30-1:30 a.m.) I believe LE knows the chaos didn't begin until at least a little after 12:30.
That Challenger needs to be found.

Agreed.
 
This case really reminds me of the Lauria Bible and Ashley Freeman kidnapping and murders. There were 3 perps involved who broke into the Freeman's home and shot Danny and Kathy Freeman and kidnapped, raped and murdered Lauria and Ashley. It was over money owed for drugs (presumably by Danny Freeman). I wonder if what happened at the Closs home was debt related? Maybe not drugs but perhaps money owed for something else? James and Denise were the target and they took Jayme for reasons of their own?
 
Just a theory, mind you. Not pointing fingers at anyone:

I’ve mulled the Closs case over in my mind since day one. The one factor that keeps bringing me back to a plausible theory is the horrific violence involved. Just my opinion, but at face value it “looks like” retaliation over an unpaid debt of some sort with Jayme’s kidnapping being collateral damage.

Some great sleuthers here have probably already posed this theory. I’m just saying it’s what I keep coming back to.

I think this was planned and meant to occur in the darkness of night.

IMHO
 
I don't get the unpaid debt theory as people want their $ back...not much chance of that if you kill the debtors. Or at least make it so others know that was the reason I.e mafia or something.
 
Are jv usually high school kids?
Nope. But the season for cross country- nation wide is in the fall. Track and field is in the spring.

Middle schoolers, intending to run in High school, are encouraged to run with a club team for events like AAU/Footlocker/USATF. (And off season year round conditioning.)
 
I think, & would hope, that LE would come right out & say they cannot rule out a murder/suicide....unless this information was crucial to the case for some bizarre reason....

I just really don't think so.....James being right at that kicked in door, plus Jayme being missing.....
 
Just a theory, mind you. Not pointing fingers at anyone:

I’ve mulled the Closs case over in my mind since day one. The one factor that keeps bringing me back to a plausible theory is the horrific violence involved. Just my opinion, but at face value it “looks like” retaliation over an unpaid debt of some sort with Jayme’s kidnapping being collateral damage.

Some great sleuthers here have probably already posed this theory. I’m just saying it’s what I keep coming back to.

I think this was planned and meant to occur in the darkness of night.

IMHO
Yes, I keep coming back to either debt or some type of SM connection.
The violence of the crime seems professional.The debt could be a sports betting debt . I know many really nice, normal people that unfortunately get in over their heads and resort to" borrowing "money.
The SM connection is possible and the violence could have been due to an argument and escalation .
My other theory is like someone mentioned earlier - a thrill killing .A perp who is almost use to this type of violence. Was on drugs and wanted to target a young girl. IMO
 
I understand.

Have you watched many other interviews in other American cases where they were also asked speculative questions by reporters and also received the same no comment answers?

Many of those speculative questions were nothing more than rumor and gossip and proven not to be true once the actual suspect was finally arrested.

I really found his interview pretty typical and inline with many other cases where rumors also swirled and LE refused to comment on any of them.

If it were true and if he was involved the police would have honed in on him from day one.

That would be a huge red flag immediately plus of course since Jayme was taken he would either be missing now and with her or he wouldnt have an alibi during the time it all happened either.

I think they would have investigated all of that if it truly existed and we wouldnt be almost a month in without even a POI.

As I am sure you well know cases which have a close link or relationship between any of the victims and suspect are the easiest to solve. There simply is no way for anyone to erase relationship history.

Since LE is still saying they need that one tip to lead them to who did this I think they have ruled out Jayme having a older boyfriend and any online connection.

Jmo though...

Yes I get where you are coming from and I am not saying that I’m right but what I am saying is that it’s a big red flag for me. Yes I have watched other press interviews in USA with many different cases. What makes this different IMOO is that he didn’t say NO COMMENT to lots of questions. He answered most questions with either an explanation/answer along the lines of the information that has already been released OR he answers with things like ‘I wish I knew the answer to that ‘ or ‘That question keeps me awake at night and I just don’t know the answer ‘ or ‘’I really don’t know ‘ etc etc etc
It was really telling to me personally that when it cane to this question about a possible older BF - his reply was NO COMMENT on that .
That is why it stood out to me and why I found it so interesting. And with all due respect, yes we are over a month in and yes he keeps saying just that one tip is all we need BUT none of us know what is actually going on behind the scenes and from my own personal experience and perspective, having been the OIC giving the press release and answering the questions on my own investigations, I would give out specific details , also whilst asking for people to call in, and often I read in the newspaper/s that we obviously have no leads yet I knew exactly who was responsible and I was just building my case and getting sufficient information and evidence to make that arrest and / or locate a victim. So my point is that you, I and the rest of us on WS , just don’t know what LE have or don’t have in relation to this case, Jaymes potential location and any offenders .
I sincerely hope that I am wrong and I would be the first to say so and apologise - all I want, like the rest of us, is to find Jayme, safe and well, and to get her on the road to healing and dealing with the loss of her parents and the loss of her inocence , but making the best recovery that she can with a view to living a great life and having a fantastic future where she can put all this behind her ( of course taking into account that sadly, she will never forget and will be reminded forever with the loss of her parents ).

#Lets get Jayme home!
 
I haven’t seen any interviews from her friends, classmates, etc. when Abby & Libby were murdered in Indiana (13 and 14 years old, for those who aren’t familiar with that case) comments from many friends and classmates were included in newspaper articles and television reports.
This story has an interview with Jayme's best friend. Watch the video.
Search Continues for Missing Wisconsin Teen, Investigation into Double Homicide Case Underway

There was also a video with a reporter outside the vigil talking to kids. Can't recall whose twitter feed that was in and I don't know if all or any of it is in a video accompanying a story.
 
I don't get the unpaid debt theory as people want their $ back...not much chance of that if you kill the debtors. Or at least make it so others know that was the reason I.e mafia or something.
Great point cluciano63! Maybe the “debt” was not monetary?? A promise not kept, or some other omission was committed?
 
I'm not going to discount this theory, however I find it to be quite unlikely. You'd have to find somebody that was both a stone cold killer AND a pedophile wrapped up in to one package. People don't tend to blur those lines, they are either one thing or another, seldom both. And as I've said from the beginning, if the motive was to abduct Jayme for sexual purposes, there would be a bout a million better ways to go about it. If this person came to the house specifically for Jayme, then the parents would only have been eliminated because this person was or wanted to be in a relationship with her. That suggests a long term plan, which is probably why I still believe she is alive somewhere.

But sadly they do exist. Approximately 150 children each year are abducted and the children are later on found murdered. It has continued to climb in recent years just like home invasions.

The number one motive for abducting them is to sexual assault the child or children. So pedophiles are also certainly capable of murder as well.

As for as those who were willing to murder others who lived with the child I think it may be far more cases of where its happened than we are aware. Not every case has made national news especially if they happened years ago. But posters here have linked several cases where it has happened.

Recently D. Alverez was abducted from her home and still remains missing.

The suspect turned a pot of cooking oil on high on one of stove's burners before he took the 9 year old with him. He had every intention of burning their home down and killing all of her family inside. Thank goodness he wasnt successful but his full intention to murder them all was obvious.

I think there may be more cases where a parent or parents were viciously attacked before their child was taken but they may have survived the violent assaults.

I wish there was someway we could find all of these past cases but many would be found only in local or state run media whether online articles or local or state television stations or print newspapers.

Therein lies the problem when trying to amass them all. I think there are way more cases than we know about.

I have found many criminal cases over the years in local news articles that never made the national news and couldnt ever understand why they didnt.

We even have a forum here about stories that are not national stories but should be.

Imo
 
If such (19 yo bf) exists LE would be well on that.

I agree but none of us know what LE have or don’t have, we don’t know what is happening behind the closed doors of the investigation room .
I just hope and pray that they do have leads that are being pursued with a view to locating and bringing Jayme home to where she belongs, safe and well so that her healing process can begin and she can be surrounded by those that love and care for her while she deals with the loss of her parents and her innocence.
#Lets bring Jayme home
 
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