WI WI - Robert Christian, 18, Madison, 16 Sept 1977

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buster23 said:
Bumping for Bob on his birthday..... Someone was asking me for contact info for Bob's relatives. I haven't had any contact with them for many years and don't know if they would want me to give out their information. I wish I could. I did send a message to his sister via facebook in 2012, but never got a response. I am not friends with her on facebook, so it went to her "other" mailbox and maybe she never saw the message.

For the people who are wondering if his disappearance is connected to his sister's disappearance.... Here is a link to an article about the sister's murder. http://http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-10-25/news/8503130210_1_ghost-riders-faulty-wiring-murder-charge

A lot of people have mentioned something that I didn't want to put on the board. I had heard rumors that Bob was using marijuana in the months before his disappearance (meaning I heard this before he disappeared). I don't know if it was true. The guesses that he stopped to buy some could be right on.

Edit: I guess the link doesn't work. If you search Catherine Christian, rosa's cantina, ghost riders and Alvin hegge it should come up. Maybe someone more tech savvy can post a link for me.....

http://http://strategis-one.com/News_Writing_-_Ghost_Riders.html
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I did have RLC's father's mailing address, but he's getting old. I hope he's still with us. It'd be nice for him to know the fate of his son, if it is ever solved. There are so many unsolved John Doe's from the late 70's. I wonder if he has already been found deceased. His case reminds me of the JD case from Delafield, WI, who was found on Sept. 14. RLC vanished on the 16th of Sept but JD died on the 14th. Is there a chance RLC vanished on the 14th and is the JD, and that it was reported wrong? Sometimes the missing date is a day or 2 off, just because people have to remember when they last saw the person. Anyway, if you're not familiar, Google the Delafield guy and let me know if you can find it. If not, I'll send a link. Do you see a resemblance? I have always thought they should be compared.
 
I think the Sept 16th date is accurate. I remembered it being a Friday and I just checked a 1977 calendar and the 16th was a Friday. I think the JD from sept 14 has a thinner face than Bob did. The one that always comes back to me is a JD from 1982 in Barron county, WI. The jeans waist size seems to fit, the height and age fit and so does the clothing style. Some things don't fit as well. If this is Bob, it would mean he was alive for 4 yrs after he disappeared, or they have the JD dod wrong. I don't know if Bob ever had knee surgery, like the JD. I also don't think the profile picture looks much like Bob.
I'm not sure which address you have for RLC's dad, but I know he moved out of WI to live w/his daughter in another state.

Thanks!

edit: right after I posted this, I remembered something. I believe I contacted a Barron County detective about this a long time ago and was told that Bob had already been previously ruled out.
 
acco said:
Robert Lewis Christian was indeed murdered. It was not a hunting accident as so many people seem to think. He did not slip and fall from his tree stand and had no disorientation episode. He was murdered. But Who? What? Why? Where?

Following his 2 errands (the bank and Walgreens), it was nearly 6 o’clock before Robert actually went on his way to Baraboo. His arrival time at Randy Griffith's home, had he gone directly there, would have been shortly before 7 o'clock. But he did not go directly there. This explains the missing hour or so until the 8 pm witness citing. But where did he go?

Robert had planned to buy some pot. That’s why he withdrew $25 from his bank account. He had never done this before and was not too sure how to go about it. Along the way, he stopped at a bar and made some inquiries. Someone overheard him. They talked and agreed to meet somewhere along Tower Road for the transaction.

Once there, the contact did not show up. This is why Robert said he was looking for his friend and thought he was in the wrong place. It was a set-up. After Robert drove off, he intended to forget about the pot and to go and check his tree stand. He parked his car in that driveway on Tower Road. He got out of his car but only walked a short distance before his contact showed up and picked him up.

Robert fell into the wrong hands. The murderer was not a local but knew the area as he had been here before. But why murder? Why Robert? There could be numerous answers to that. One would have to be inside the murderer’s head to know those answers. Robert was not a specific target. This was just a case of, as I said, falling into the wrong hands. The body was never found locally because the murderer took it with him. Where is it? Only he knows.

One last thing. Robert’s car was stripped by locals after his disappearance. They took the hunting bow as well. Hunting is a big thing in those parts so a hunting bow would surely be a coveted item. They did not know about the money in the glove box. Financial gain was not their objective. The hubcaps and old tires were dumped many miles from the scene so as to make it appear that the perpetrators were not locals. That’s why the license plate was also removed. A local would not do these things.

The pieces of the puzzle are all right there in front of us as are the answers to this mystery. The pieces just have to be put in their proper place. Consider the following :

1-Robert clearly had a planned engagement before heading to Randy Griffith’s place. Not planned in precise detail but planned nonetheless. This explains the missing time between his departure time and the witness citing 2 hours later.

2-Robert was clearly not known for his drug use. This is why it was so discreetly planned. Not because drug-taking was a regular habit of his, as I said. But simply because it was a new thing to him and he did not want it to be known, especially by his mother who even disapproved of his cigar smoking. Keeping this in mind, pot was an obvious choice. A beginner or rare user, especially one as smart as Robert, would not start with hard drugs.

3-Randy, Robert’s friend, knew about the planned pot purchase. When Robert turned up missing, he was terrified something very wrong had happened. He likely thought that if someone got Robert, they could get him too. This is why Randy Griffith is so absent from all the known information. Fear. Not lack of co-operation. Rather, lack of co-operation because of fear.

4-Bloodhounds tracked Robert’s scent from where the car was found to Tower Road, but only for a short distance. Then the scent disappeared. This clearly indicated that, one, Robert himself parked the car there and, two, he was picked by a vehicle on Tower Road. Hence the disappearing scent.

5-At five foot ten and 210 pounds, Robert was a big guy of fairly imposing stature. If Robert was killed by manual means, the murderer had to be likely a man who was large and powerful enough to overcome someone of Robert’s size. If Robert was killed by an object, such as a gun or knife, the killer’s size or gender does not matter. Such means do not require physical size and strength. Just the element of surprise or intimidation.
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Greetings!

Good points above. Just wondering if you have inside information that Robert was indeed killed over a drug deal gone bad? Or is this a very strong theory that you have always had? Regardless, thank you for the great points you have raised above. It helps us understand the case even more.

What sticks out to me is the possibility that Robert died over a pot deal. Pot was basically a recreational drug back in the 60's-70's, and I have often wondered about a bad drug deal being a part of this tragedy, but is there something even more involved here? Like Bob owed a ton of money for something? Was a more serious drug involved? Did Bob get into a fight or have a major conflict with some people over a girl or other drugs, and the buying of the pot was just "The final straw that broke the camel's back?"

Satch
 
Does anyone think this case may be linked to Ronnie Odell Davis? They both vanished around the same time. Ronnie is from Oklahoma, though.
 
Satch said:
Greetings!

Good points above. Just wondering if you have inside information that Robert was indeed killed over a drug deal gone bad? Or is this a very strong theory that you have always had? Regardless, thank you for the great points you have raised above. It helps us understand the case even more.

What sticks out to me is the possibility that Robert died over a pot deal. Pot was basically a recreational drug back in the 60's-70's, and I have often wondered about a bad drug deal being a part of this tragedy, but is there something even more involved here? Like Bob owed a ton of money for something? Was a more serious drug involved? Did Bob get into a fight or have a major conflict with some people over a girl or other drugs, and the buying of the pot was just "The final straw that broke the camel's back?"

Satch
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Thanks, Satch. I do not have any insider information or else I would have contacted the police. There are ways to do that anonymously, even in this day and age. But my theory, I feel, is very strong, as you put it. In fact, I am almost certain that it is exactly how it happened. The first tip-off is when Bob withdrew $25 from his bank account. This indicates beyond a doubt that he had a planned stop before reaching Randy's place. That planned stop was not to buy the cigars. Remember, in 1977, $25 was way too much money for a small pack of cigars. That money had to have been for something else. Randy had to have known about this purchase. It is highly unlikely that Bob would buy some pot just for himself and keep it hidden from Randy. Highly unlikely.

Bob had to have stopped somewhere along the way. It had to have been a fairly lengthy stop because too much time had passed from his departure time to the witness citing at 8:00 pm. There is at least one whole hour unaccounted for. There may have been something other than pot involved.

It is certainly not uncommon for a drug dealer to murder someone. It happens all the time. And we know for a fact that the car was indeed parked there by Robert. Tracking dogs have proven that. He walked just a short distance before obviously getting picked up by another car. He walked into a trap, I am almost 100% certain of that.
 
buster23 said:
The one that always comes back to me is a JD from 1982 in Barron county, WI. The jeans waist size seems to fit, the height and age fit and so does the clothing style. I don't know if Bob ever had knee surgery, like the JD. I also don't think the profile picture looks much like Bob.

edit: right after I posted this, I remembered something. I believe I contacted a Barron County detective about this a long time ago and was told that Bob had already been previously ruled out.
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Darn it! You burst my bubble. I also saw a lot in common between the Barron John Doe and Robert Christian; the age, the height, the weight, the brown hair, the flannel shirt, the blue jeans. The only thing that would be different is what was mentioned, the time of death. Either Robert was alive for several years, or, he was kept in a freezer until 1982, when the BJD was found. I wonder if DNA was compared with one of Robert's siblings and the BJD and that's how he was excluded. It would be nice to know why he was excluded.

Is it possible that someone could be kept in a freezer for several years and fool the forensic people into thinking that person died at a later date?

Barron John Doe:

http://canyouidentifyme.org/BarronWisconsinJohnDoeSeptember1982

Couple those similarities between the two victims with additional information that Robert Christian's friend, Randall James Griffith, just happened to have ties to Barron, WI. He married Karen Jean Clumpner in Barron County, and whose parents, Evelyn L. Clumpner and Loren A. Clumpner, lived there in Barron for many years. Loren grew up in Dallas, WI., as did Willard Lentz, on whose land the Barron John Doe was found on; Lentz Farms (which now belongs to his nephew)

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=9252200

Griffith/Clumpner marriage:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VJY7-267

Evelyn Clumpner's obit:

http://www.news-shield.com/news/obituaries/article_13f7fc9e-6f90-11e4-86ef-478bcff386dc.html

Loren Clumpner obit:

http://www.news-shield.com/news/obituaries/article_94241673-c49e-526c-b91d-375931d3a0e5.html

Both Loren Clumpner, Griffith's father-in-law) and Willard Lentz grew up in the same small town and worked in another. It would be no stretch of the imagination that they knew each other. I'm just showing here that several people are linked with two probable murders, not that they are responsible for either of them. Griffith, through his wife, for sure, is linked to both communities where someone disappeared and where another was found dead. They're now divorced. She's remarried.

Willard Lentz obit:

http://www.news-shield.com/news/obituaries/article_83e5daa1-2e06-50d3-9e8b-83dda9b206c4.html

Lentz Farms:

https://goo.gl/maps/fWPvE

I believe Catherine Christian was a bartender at Rosa's Cantina, which belonged to Hegge's sister. There's no evidence anywhere that links the death of Catherine with that of her brother Robert.

Catherine Christian, 22, died in the March, 1983, fire at Rosa`s Cantina, five miles southeast of Madison. Prosecutors contend the men planned to set the fire at the financially troubled tavern to collect insurance money and kill Christian, who the prosecutors say the three men believed to be a police informant.
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http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-10-25/news/8503130210_1_ghost-riders-faulty-wiring-murder-charge

101 Wisconsin Unsolved Mysteries By Marv Balousek writes that the tires and hubcaps were found shot full of holes:

https://books.google.com/books?id=j9RTJEGSoWIC&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=randall+j+griffith+baraboo&source=bl&ots=bPqCYcGMON&sig=XMEWZVg1jnRiWIeSigAV4ATshXg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEYQ6AEwCGoVChMIh8Sa6ruMxwIVBc6ACh1ThABd#v=onepage&q=randall%20j%20griffith%20baraboo&f=false

I also posted that another unidentified body was found about two miles east of where Robert disappeared. Robert was last seen traveling east from the retreat area. Maybe his body is located somewhere there?

https://goo.gl/maps/R2A2J

Caledonia (Columbia County Jane Doe)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?244072-WI-Caledonia-Female-Skeletal-Remains-45-60yo-May-82

I thought it odd that Robert's $25.00 was in the glove compartment and most everything else was stolen. When I get money from the bank, I put it in my wallet. He must have hid it there for safekeeping for some reason.
 
Is it possible that Delafield Doe is the person who Robert was supposed to meet? It would explain why this person Robert was waiting for in the driveway never showed. And if Delafield Doe had buddies who were upset that he hadn't shown up yet, they might have thought Robert had something to do with it and taken it out on him. Delafield Doe died in a car accident on September 14, 1977 on a route that could have been taking him to the Baraboo area.
 
Several thoughts after reading the thread. Please correct my memory of the times if needed. I was 6.

Handmade tree stands are still used here in ME. And they are sketchy. It is still very common here for hunters to "check the stand" before hunting season. I have no doubt this was the plan on the way to Randy's.

What would $25 get you in 77? Booze, weed, and snacks? I think the plan was to have a few drinks, smoke some weed, listen to music, what 18 olds did in 77? I don't believe either of them used any other drugs.

Why would Robert tell his mother he was buying cigars? Teenage boys avoid confrontation with mom at all cost. I suspect he was on the phone with Randy and she overheard. Phones were centrally located and had short chords. It's hard to escape the kitchen. I'm thinking cigar was their code word for weed. And he was picking them up on the way.

My phone is acting up so posting now. More thoughts though.
 
The fact that his money was left behind in his car made me remember trips to the bank. You had to go in and slips needed to be filled out for transactions. Could he have gotten his cash and tucked it in his checkbook. A thief would leave checks behind and may not have even seen the cash.

I don't see anything odd with the keys in the ignition. That was very common for the times and I think this still happens now in your smaller towns and communities. There are many places I still go and don't think for a second about leaving my keys in the car.

I think the stripped car was nothing more than an opportunity for some locals. Local kids/adults tend to know where the quarries/pits are. They have partied in those places for years. They have target practiced in those places for years and they have disposed of junk in those places for years. I think they took what they wanted, used what they could and shot up the rest. I don't think this has anything to do with his disappearance either.
 
I also don't believe this was a drug deal gone bad. I don't believe Robert or whoever he was planning to buy from thought this was anything more than a small transaction. Enough for 2 guys and a night of hanging out. I'm not sure where the motive would be.

I do believe he got out of his vehicle and somehow into another. He left the money in his car so I doubt this was the deal if there was indeed one. He'd have had his money ready in order to be done with it. I think he had done this before but it wasn't a frequent thing.

So. I now wonder why his scent ends at the road from his car? He had to have either gotten into, been forced or been placed in some vehicle. Why? And to where?

Most of my scenarios require him to either have cash or his checks on him when he left his car. Has it been mentioned whether or not Robert had a credit card?
 
I've been researching Catherine's murder for an article I'm writing about Robert's disappearance. Here's some additional detail as to why law enforcement ruled out a connection between Catherine's death and Robert's disappearance:


Robert's parents sued Geraldine Contreraz, the owner of Rosa's Cantina, for $300,000. The lawsuit was for negligence in operating the bar, resulting in the death of their child. Prosecutors in the case claimed the fire was set intentionally by the Ghost Riders as a plan to get insurance money. Scott Howard and Will Highfill were convicted for murder in Catherine's death (Howard remains incarcerated, Highfill is now under active community supervision).

According to the prosecutor in the case, the Ghost Riders intended for Catherine to die in the fire because they had become suspicious that she was revealing information about their group to the police. A witness in the trial testified that while they were incarcerated together, Scott Howard told him he had hit Catherine over the head before the fire was set. A pathologist testified that Catherine was most likely unconscious before she died, though the two bruises on her forehead did not seem significant enough to have knocked her out. The pathologist felt it was more likely that Catherine passed out due to hyperventilation during a physical struggle. The defense argued that Catherine consumed marijuana and alcohol and the bruising was the result of her falling on her head in the parking lot of another bar when a male friend picked her up and then slipped and fell.

Prosecutors alleged the fire was set under orders from Geraldine Contreraz's brother, Alvin Hegge, the national President of the Ghost Riders. The occupant of the apartment above the tavern was Geraldine Contreraz's ex-husband, Gordon Littel. Catherine was found by firefighters in the upstairs bedroom. Gordon Littel was not in the apartment on the night of the fire.
 
I just spent a ridiculous amount of time wracking my brain because I knew I had seen something somewhere about the nun's house having been robbed around the time of his disappearance, but I couldn't find it again.

I finally found it, there is another thread for him that I kept passing by in results, assuming there was only one WS thread that I'd already read.

Robert Lewis Christian - Missing since 16/09/1977 from Madison, Wisconsin

From what the poster is saying, it sounds as though the burglar may have still been occupying the nun's house when Bob was there? It's a little confusing

Perhaps if someone has access to news archives, there might be something about this incident?
 
Hello everyone. I am very interested in all that you all have said as Bob was my uncle. As family we were not aware of anyone trying to reach out so i wanted to post something on here for anyone to reach out with information/theories/leads/questions..... please feel free to email me at kekerose13@gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from you and know it is much appreciated you keep bumping and keeping the thread alive! -Crystal
 
Hi I'm from Texas and ran across the Christian missing person case about a year ago and saved it. I graduated from HS the same year as he wound up missing is why (maybe) I got fixated with the case.
So .. maybe he parked the car on Tower Rd. and walked into the woods to check his tree stand. When he returned to the car he came across the robbers stripping his car and they killed him to keep him quiet, then drove his body away in their vehicle and disposed of it somewhere. Just a guess, I dunno. Does not explain the mysterious missing hour though, or why he pulled into Durwood Glen.
 
Crystalrose1985 said:
Hello everyone. I am very interested in all that you all have said as Bob was my uncle. As family we were not aware of anyone trying to reach out so i wanted to post something on here for anyone to reach out with information/theories/leads/questions..... please feel free to email me at kekerose13@gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from you and know it is much appreciated you keep bumping and keeping the thread alive! -Crystal
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Hi Crystal.....and welcome!
I think it may help if you could post anything you know....such as was Randy his cousin (as has been suggested?)
The more 'facts' would eliminate much of the (sorry) but complete fantasy that has been posted on this thread.....i personally have never read a thread on this website which comes close to having so much guessing and presenting as facts, things that have absolutely no evidence whatsoever!
More than one poster has read one post (a complete guess) taken it as gospel and further fantasised and elaborated on it.
You would be helping simply by putting some of the nonsense to rest!
 
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