WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #3

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<snipped> Sadly, the story has started to die... even in this area. I have a few friends in Fayetteville who have never even heard the story.

Unfortunately, this is what we see happening all too often with cases such as this. Events turn into history...History to legend...And the truth is lost to faded memories.
Whatever one's view on what happened that December night so long ago, no one can argue that a horrific tragedy occured. At the very least, I would think the local or state government could erect some type of monument in the area to remember these children, and keep them in the minds of future generations.
 
Thanks to all who are still checking the board. My mom asks frequently whether anyone has posted something new.

The property is a couple of miles to the north of Fayetteville on Route 16. Please remember that the property isn't owned by the Sodders any longer, and we should all be very careful to respect the new property owner's privacy and enjoyment of their home.

... I was wondering if anyone had the exact location of the old Sodder property.
 
It sounds like I was given wrong information on the location - I apologize. I recognize the picture on the NPR article now but cannot place where that house is! I know that I would never bother the new owners out of respect for both them and also for the Sodders.

So many people on here have done wonderful research that I wouldn't even know how to begin to do. I am wondering if there is any way to find out more information on the coroner's inquest that was held about this fire? Are there any sort of public records about such things and where would one obtain them? I believe some very valuable information could be found there. We know that there were mistakes and/or cover-ups in this case (such as the beef liver incident). Why!?

Laura Bean asked some time ago if anyone else had any other ideas. My two are to explore and discuss this inquest more if it is at all possible. Also, I believe that someone out there must know the truth, and keeping up awareness about these children may one day bring someone forward.
 
It sounds like I was given wrong information on the location - I apologize. I recognize the picture on the NPR article now but cannot place where that house is! I know that I would never bother the new owners out of respect for both them and also for the Sodders.

So many people on here have done wonderful research that I wouldn't even know how to begin to do. I am wondering if there is any way to find out more information on the trial that was held about this fire? Are there any sort of public records about such things and where would one obtain them? I believe some very valuable information could be found there. We know that there were mistakes and/or cover-ups in this case (such as the beef liver incident). Why!?

Laura Bean asked some time ago if anyone else had any other ideas. My two are to explore and discuss this trial more if it is at all possible. Also, I believe that someone out there must know the truth, and keeping up awareness about these children may one day bring someone forward.


There wasn't ever any trial that I know of?? What was the trial suppose to have been for?? I still believe the mob was involved with this.
 
I have edited my post. It was a coroner's inquest and not a criminal trial. I am looking for the source I read that made it sound more like a criminal trial.
 
Has anyone ever talked to reporters in Italy's larger cities to see if a newspaper story could be done in several cities on the same day? I would think this would be something a journalist would be interested in doing and if it is an article, there would be no cost involved.

Human interest stories are often big draws, especially one like this, that could run on Christmas Eve or Christmas!!
 
Good Idea SunnieRN.

I allways thought this make a wonderfull 2 to 3 hour movie documentary to be shown around Christmas time.. Every Christmas time until the case is sloved then they have I would not say a nice ending but the family would have some type of closure ending to add to the movie and you still can play it year after year..

Only trouble this might be a little too sad of a movie to be play around Christmas time..

Shoot I settle for a spot on AMW... You lucky to get little bit of local coverage on this crime.. Yes I feel its a crime... It's sure a crime the way some govt. officals acted in this case that's for sure...

I came to think the kids was round up one by one during the first outbreak of the fire and basic kidnapped and hauled out of state or even maybe across ocean to the old country..

Why????

Go back to a stand Mr. Sodder made during the dark days of WW-2, If not a older grudge held against him.. Mr. Sodder was right on his stand...The end of the war proved he was right.....People behind this could not understand or accept they been wrong all this time..

There was some very strong threats aim at him during war time I read from a pretty good source from early 1940's..

Some local area offical's who's job was to help this family in time of need was not there at all and only a few show up way into the next day...I heard couple more excuse's ..But none sounded like they too interested in doing much at all in this case...

That's why we are all together right here and now some 64 years or longer later left with this same mystery that never was answered back then..

That's why Mr. Sodder went to his grave still looking for his kids... He know deep down they was still alive.... Poor man could not get no help from hardly anybody at all from the very people who duty was to help him..

Why??? After all the blood and death during WW-2, Everybody wanted to put all that stuff behind them and move on and the cost of this action is, In a few case's such as this one a great missjudgement was done....

Hope I am sure wrong on this...... But after years studing this case that is what I keep coming back to as what really happened that sad Christmas eve night..

I start out not believe this happened that way.. I thought it was a slim to no chance this happen..... But more I investigation more you see too much tip's and stuff happened I believe it did happen for real.... Kids was tracked for a while leaving WV ... What would be any gain for these people to come out and tell what they saw?? Some people did not even know these kids was missing in the first place...

Granddaughter :: Tell Mom I be thinking about her and the whole family this and every holliday season.. As I been doing for many - many years before..
 
Okay guys I think I may have something.

With this case, I kept asking myself over and over and over again,

Why would someone take so many children? I mean it's hard to keep 1 child in check when you are kidnapping a child so why in the world would you take more than 1? I think I have an answer.

Do you guys know what West Virginia is known for? Or was known for back when these kids were taken?

Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum - The LARGEST lunatic asylum in the NATION. Still is, just was closed down a while back. But why would this be important?

Because if you put your child there, (and by all accounts you did not have to have a crazy child), they PAID you. PER CHILD. They required no documentation to put your child or children there. Most children soon went crazy even if they were normal when they got there.

Because conditions were terrible. Not enough staff, patients being raped and beaten, dirty conditions, being around people who WERE crazy. Let's put it this way, according to old employees some who worked in the fifties and were alive when interviewed about the place, and some still alive now, said many children were put there by parents who could give a number of reasons for putting their children there. My child is lazy, my child is depressed, my child doesn't do well in school, my child gets sick a lot, etc.

So if they put these children here, think about this. They would get paid one time a week for EACH CHILD put there. If the child claimed they were stolen the staff would have ignored it saying the children were insane. And didn't know what they were talking about. Doctors did all kinds of harsh treatments, like shock therapy and labodimies, etc.

Sorry can't spell. But this would make sense. The hospital operated from 1864 to 1994. It would have been easy to control the children just until they got to the insane asylum.

This seems plausible given the staff would not have asked for birth certificates or anything else. And the parents would not have thought to look for the kids there, not in a million years.
 
This is a very good theory, Laura Bean - now the question is how can we look into it? There are so many good sleuths here I am sure someone can figure something out! If someone wanted to get some sort of revenge on the Sodders and have them pay up debts all at the same time, this would be a good way to have it done. Also, after being in a hospital for awhile the children may have been entirely unrecognizable even to staff who could have seen the billboard.

A long time ago [years I think], a member of the family that was on here was looking into a dig on the property. Does anyone know what ever happened with that?

I believe this mystery can be solved once and for all, but that the search needs to start once again from the very beginning.
 
This is a very good theory, Laura Bean - now the question is how can we look into it? There are so many good sleuths here I am sure someone can figure something out! If someone wanted to get some sort of revenge on the Sodders and have them pay up debts all at the same time, this would be a good way to have it done. Also, after being in a hospital for awhile the children may have been entirely unrecognizable even to staff who could have seen the billboard.

A long time ago [years I think], a member of the family that was on here was looking into a dig on the property. Does anyone know what ever happened with that?

I believe this mystery can be solved once and for all, but that the search needs to start once again from the very beginning.
If I remember correctly the dig was done and nothing was ever found. It's in an earlier post
 
Okay first off. Let's start with the photo. Granddaughter, the photo that came to your family the one that looked like Louis only as an adult. There was a background on the photo. Was he in a window? Can we possibly match up the window to one of the windows at the asylum? And beyond that, can you please put up the photo here, so we may look at that background?

This would also explain how and why the envelope had no return address.

The number on the back of the photo, this could be a patient's number, yes?

We need to get a hold of the people who own the asylum now and find out if there are records of patients and if anyone brought in five children at once.

Also we need to know if there are photos we can see of patients. We might be able to make an identification. I think we have something to go off of. Finally.
 
Oh, one more thing. Can someone find out what happened to the patients when the asylum was finally closed once and for all?
 
Way to go Laura Bean,, I like this new idea... Myself I would check childern who checked in that time period of 3 or more ... All them children might not went to the same place....

I know in WV, I can't say about rest of US for that time period.. But most family farms still depend a lot on children labor to help keep the family farm working... This was 1 of the main reasons for huge familys with 10 or more children back in them days.. This was common until late 1960's into 70's when low price heavy equipment replaced a lot of the manual labor on these farm's..

One or 2 kids could been sold or traded to one of these backwoods family farms somewhere and where they was real young growed up with the other family members just about like there own kids even going to school and church together .. This was done more often than most people think..

Our old personal family farm.. We allways had atleast 3 or more people staying with us all the time helping out working on the farm for board and food...Winter time Hunting and traping for meat and trade goods in animal pelts, plus they would get a little spending money right after harvest time..

Nice work Laura..
 
Okay so I did some more research. Granddaughter, I was told another hospital took over for the trans allegheny lunatic asylum. We need a court order to open records and to look for these children in their files. The older files were put in a warehouse. And it is available to be searched through, with a court order. Can you find out what you would need to attain that order, and how much it will cost to go before a judge and plead your case? Also, it is possible that the files may still be over at the new hospital. Now, it is possible for me to call them and ask them about these files, but I was told a "family" member would have better luck. Even tho you are unsure if they were there. If you call and give them info,

Tell them names but that the children could have been under diff. names
the fact that it would have been 3 girls and 2 boys or poss if split up any combination
the yr they would have been placed there would have been the day after Christmas Eve because it would have taken 4 hrs according to the WV historical society (they said it was before the interstate)
etc. The staff may have been told the children had no records because they burned in a fire.
Granddaughter, could u please look into these possibilities for us? Thank you so much and hope your fam. is doing well this yr.
 
Also tell them the children's ages, and send photos of the children to the hosp. Maybe they attached photos to the files or something, when those patients first came in.
 
The crew from the show "Ghost Adventures" on the Travel Channel did a live investigation of the Trans Allegheny Lunatic Asylum on Halloween night. Its possible the folks who own the place now might be willing to help, as much as they can.
I'm presently researching whether there were any planes in distress in that area at that time...It was a thought that hit me while doing some aviation history research. An object hitting the roof, an unknown object being found in the yard later---It happened fairly often in the early days of passenger flight.
 
I'm perplexed...why would a mental institution pay parents to bring their children there? Institutions like that are and were usually struggling for money, so why would they do that? I've been searching online trying to find a reason for it, but I can't even find a reference to them doing it.
 
I checked out that Ghosthunters thing. Now, I am not a big believer in ghosts, what I did like about the show was the history they talked of that happened there. In Ghosthunters, the new owners were interviewed and they spoke of the paying people to put their children there. Here is how it worked, and I don't know exact amounts of money, but here we go.

They said, the trans allegheny lunatic asylum started out being a "good thing". Basically, back than, when the place was started, people who had mental problems were put in prisons and things of that nature. So a woman who wanted to see a change in the way people were treated started up the asylum. She wanted a safe haven for the people, and it started out like that. Than the owners became greedy.

The hospital was meant to hold a total of 250 mentally ill patients. The state payed the institution to have the people there. Per person. So let's say back in 1945 the hospital was payed $100 per patient per month. I don't if that's the right amount but let's say that's what it was. And patients who needed more care and had more problems had more money coming to the institution so let's say a really bad off patient was sent $150 a month by the state.

So they began to spend almost no money on the patients, and they began to completely fill the hospital well beyond it's capacity. The money wasn't really being spent on the patients at that point. A facility meant to hold 250 people was suddenly swamped with over 1500 people by 1945. Why? Simple. The facility grew it's own food, encouraged patients not to even wear clothing, patients were not allowed in or out of the building and were never taken to town. People got murdered because there were not enough nurse's or doctors to care for them, basically the staff was meant to keep 250 people and had over 1500 people in it. One nurse was even murdered and was not found for weeks due to the largeness of the facility and her being killed on a stairway that was not used often.

So why would they fill this place to capacity? Money is the answer. If you were willing to put your child in this place, and claimed you had a farm and needed to hire someone now to do the work your child was doing, the place would pay you. Every week. So let's say you put your child there. The state was told a new patient had come in and the doctors could say yes this child needs help and the state would believe it. So, they begin paying you $100 a month. You send the parents $10 a week. Which comes out to $40 a month. You just made $60 every month on this patient. Because, really you aren't spending anything on the patient. They aren't wearing clothing, you grow your own veggies, fruits and meats. The place is kept fairly cold, the staff is overworked and underpaid. So even with everything, you just made $60 a month, PER Patient, every month. They even had their own cemetary and buried people who died of illness or old age or who were killed by more violent people or died due to a medical procedure. I would bet my bottom dollar that they neglected to tell the government about a lot if not all, of those deaths.

Meanwhile, the staff of the hospital is too scared to help the patients because several who tried to help were fired. They need the jobs. Several nurses on this show were interviewed and said this very thing. They needed their jobs, and could not lose them. So instead of helping, they let it go. Tried to see the patients as nothing more than a job. Very sad. Also, the doctors encouraged no outside contact, meaning if you went there, you could not get a visitor. Really they were keeping people out because of the terrible living conditions, for fear someone would stop the money from coming in.

So there you go. I like the idea of calling the current owners and seeing if they can help us.
 
So basically break it down easy here

If the hospital got $100 a month to care for a child patient
And they sent $10 a week to the parents or supposed parents
And grew their own food and never really purchased any tools
(in fact one way they dealt with bad patients was a labodomy which litterally took a dr 15 mins, no anestesia and only an ice pick, yes u heard me, an ice pick and a table with straps to hold someone down),
Than they just made $60 a week
If they had 1,500 patients that comes to $90,000 a MONTH and if staff cost them $5,000 a month, that leaves $85,000 a month unaccounted for. Let's even add in $10,000 in medications and other neccessities and that still leaves $75,000 a month, in 1945 which is a fortune. Even add another $10,000 a month and that still leaves $65,000 a month and is still a fortune.
 
And than you figure lots of them were not children, and so a lot of them they didn't have to pay out the $10 a week, so yeppers, we r talking tons of money.
 
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