IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

[VeryVeritas]

That was an interesting read but you made a ton of assumptions. I am assuming if she was already dead, a dog would have hit on a deceased persons remains in the apartment. I also would think LE would have been much more aggressive if they had video of LS appearing “dead” on camera.

Tons of assumptions?
Not many, its mostly deduction based on public statements and facts.

However, I appreciate the feedback and applying Occam’s razor, lets simplify:

There are only 2 basic theories because of the statements of Lauren’s “friends”.
They lied or they told the truth.
1) If they told the truth, she was abducted, walking barefoot taking an unusual 2 block path from 5N to Smallwood, walking past a restaurant frequented by LE. She was not captured on any known cameras in that incredibly short supposed journey.
It is simple, zero assumptions EXCEPT that CR,MB, and JR all told the truth. To me, thats a gigantic and provably false assumption.
2) They lied. In these threads the lies and inconsistencies of CR, MB and JR’s statements with each other and the known facts have been repeatedly discussed.
Key facts:
A) Lauren in multiple videos demonstrates that she cannot stand on her own.
B) It is established by witnesses that Lauren fell over to the side, while sitting down on concrete steps, slamming her head , audibly from a distance, into the concrete. For someone already impaired as shown on video, this would have clearly been a serious injury. It is also oddly corroborated by JR who said she had “black eyes”. But there is a problem with that, and that problem is not an assumption, its a deduction. If you look up how long black eyes take to form there is a problem here. You see it takes quite a bit of time in most circumstances, And happens faster under other circumstances. For example, a massive hemorrhage, or death.
Its not an assumption that the last proof of Lauren being alive is on video. She exits the alley as it comes to the gravel lot behind 5N, and falls face down, not blocking her fall at all. Under what circumstances does someone fall face down into gravel without trying to block their fall? Big assumption that she passed out? I don’t think so. Personally I think she died within minutes of that fall. But, lets not assume.
Now CR claims amnesia, he had been supporting her up to somewhere just before she fell face down.
Personally I think he is lying. The amnesia is just too convenient. Nonetheless, CR was the one with her at this point. No one has ever disputed that fact to my knowledge.
Now after this fall, we cannot assume she is alive or dead. We can work the hypothesis either way.
More facts…
She left some items at the bar, like her shoes!
Other items of hers like a purse/ wallet were found a short distance from this face down fall. Why?
Later JR says she had her ID and apt KEYCARD. Why?
I think its a fairly safe assumption given to the proximity of this lifeless face down fall, that her items were left near there because she could not carry them.
Now, how does CR get to 5N?
It was a walk through a gravel parking lot, then around to the front of 5N.
In the gravel lot were cars, and a dumpster.
Buried somewhere in these threads, someone said there was a cadaver dog hit near the dumpster.
I have no idea if that is true. I have never seen any reference to dogs going through 5N.
MB’s account of events (and/or statements by his attorney) paint a totally inconsistent picture. According to MB. CR is all messed up and vomiting (which I think may have occurred at some point). But he makes it seem like Lauren is fine and wants to party. Now that is a gigantic inconsistency.
But in this inconsistency, he is also placing her at 5N. Since this description of events cannot be accurate, we do not know all of what parts of MB’s account is true and which are lies. We can’t compare MB’s account to CR’s - yes amnesia.
So then MB involves JR. Why?
Hey, this is a clue. You see Lauren and JR were friends for a long time… way back to summer camp.
If she was raring to go, well she could just knock on JR’s door, like it was a few steps away.
So there is something odd about MB pumping up her condition against the known facts and then him having to reach out to JR.
Then its all handed off to JR…
He notes her condition as being very different from MB
There is the black eye thing.
He doesn’t take her to ER.
But he know exactly the only things left in her possession. A non operable phone, ID and Key Card. Complete inventory there.
He notes that she mistakes an ipod for a phone.
His description of Lauren’s condition would scare me if someone in my place was in that shape.
But he claims to wait a while then she’s suddenly good to go.
See I have problems with JR knowing those 2 very slim cards that she still had. When she left everything else behind. There is a reason those things remained. And there are not a lot of options on how they remained.
I have a serious problem with him not taking action for her condition, or to ensure she got back to smallwood safely.
It smells.
His account of her leaving and the way she went is inconsistent.
So, in this 2nd theory,
CR has amnesia
MB has inconsistent account vs JR and known facts from video and witnesses and other evidence.
JR does nothing to protect her
Someone, or all are lying.
So, have to consider that she died either in the gravel lot (possibly in a vehicle there) or at 5N
I do not know what LE did after the next day.
Clearly there was a lot of time for her to be moved, cleanup, misdirection, etc. Its not a lot of conspiracy… because CR is always mute. MB says inconsistent things then goes mute, JR carries the load. The buck stops with JR.
But if you believe he let her walk out that door and watched her turn the corner different than her regular route… then you are back to #1.

For me with no assumptions, JR is a liar.
And that means he knows what happened.
Its not a big assumption that she is deceased.
For me the question is, why torture her parents? Why not just send a tip of where she is?
Yes. It means someone took her somewhere.
That was probably not JR or CR or MB.
And the silence maybe to protect that person.

 

[Swick]

Yes. It means someone took her somewhere.
That was probably not JR or CR or MB.
And the silence maybe to protect that person.

Are you thinking DB?

 

[Ixchel13]

B) It is established by witnesses that Lauren fell over to the side, while sitting down on concrete steps, slamming her head , audibly from a distance, into the concrete. For someone already impaired as shown on video, this would have clearly been a serious injury. It is also oddly corroborated by JR who said she had “black eyes”. But there is a problem with that, and that problem is not an assumption, its a deduction. If you look up how long black eyes take to form there is a problem here. You see it takes quite a bit of time in most circumstances, And happens faster under other circumstances. For example, a massive hemorrhage, or death.
Its not an assumption that the last proof of Lauren being alive is on video. She exits the alley as it comes to the gravel lot behind 5N, and falls face down, not blocking her fall at all. Under what circumstances does someone fall face down into gravel without trying to block their fall? Big assumption that she passed out? I don’t think so. Personally I think she died within minutes of that fall. But, lets not assume.


above quoted from Very Veritas.

2 falls, one is on video and she falls before CR starts half carrying her in the alley and the investigators say she was very
much alive. The second fall was from some stePs and knocked her unconscious, and a man Picked her uP and carried her uP
the street. 2 falls. the second fall was witnessed by the bartender mgr from Yogis who saidshe saw this at 338, 45 min after Lauren was last seen on camera.

PeoPle insist that Lauren was incaPacitated after going uP the alley but a witness saw her almost an hour later fall again. Yes, I do believe after that fall Lauren was Probably dying and I do not believe she was sexually assaulted. Remote viewer saw her slammed hard against a wall this might have occurred right after she was carried uP the street by either DM or her BF. MOO it was DM.

 

[Veronica Sawyer]

I haven’t gone through any of the 35 threads yet but in skimming the first page of this one I saw quite a bit of talk about construction in the vicinity of the apartment complexes. It reminded me of a local rumor that still comes up from time to time… it was said her body had been disposed of in a newly cemented or about to be cemented part of a new building or one in the midst of a renovation by two of the guys she’d been with that night. (apologies if this rumor has already been shared in any of the 35 threads or if it’s against the rules of posting)

 

[Ibiz]

At about 4:30AM, Rose-Bombs saw LS leave his apartment and walk south on College Ave.

I believe a short time later at some point, she bumped into Messel who was probably wearing his campus security shirt and carrying his mag flashlight.

I can't see any reason why Rose-Bombs would have made up a story to protect the other individuals in which he had no involvement.

Any person with the tiniest bit of common sense would see that all of these friends ocrastrating such an elaborate cover up would just be plum rediculus.

Here is a DM time line with a very good investigative article about a monster named Daniel Messel.

Daniel Messel Timeline

July 11, 1997 Daniel Messel’s DNA collected by the state.

Aug 29, 2012 IU students file report with Bloomington Police. Say an older man approached one woman twice to offer a ride and yelled obscenities at her.

Sep 1, 2012 Woman reports attempted rape to IU Police. She reported being a vehicle with a man she didn’t know when he attacked her. DNA recovered from under her fingernails.

Sep 10, 2012 Bloomington Police speak again with women who made Aug 29 report.

Nov 3, 2012 Sexual Assault occurred but not reported until Nov 26.

Nov 15, 2012 Bloomington Police report they obtained new information about suspect in Aug 29 incident.

Nov 26, 2012 Young woman reports sexual battery to Bloomington Police. Says she accepted a ride from a man who attacked her in the vehicle. She escaped. Attack happened Nov 3.

Dec 2, 2012 Women report to Bloomington Police that suspicious man circled block then stopped to ask directions. They say they’ve encountered him several times over 6mo. BPD spoke with suspect, Messel, and released him. Officers found he had a camera with video of himself asking for directions from the IU students.

Dec 3, 2012 Bloomington Police speak again with woman who made Nov 26 report.

Dec 6, 2012 Bloomington Police make case of Nov 26 report inactive.

April 24, 2015 IU Student Hannah Wilson found murdered in Brown County.

April 27, 2015 Messel charged with Wilson’s murder.

Aug 10, 2016 Messel convicted of murdering Wilson

Aug 11, 2016 Victim in Sept 1, 2012 attack contacts IU Police. Believes Messel is the suspect in her attempted rape.

Oct 28, 2016 Messel charged with attempted rape for Sept 1, 2012 attack.

Oct 31, 2016 Victim in the sexual battery case (reported Nov 26, 2012) submits evidence to Bloomington Police.

Article Link: Questions swirl around history, DNA of Bloomington killer | wthr.com

 

[Ixchel13]

At about 4:30AM, Rose-Bombs saw LS leave his apartment and walk south on College Ave.

I believe a short time later at some point, she bumped into Messel who was probably wearing his campus security shirt and carrying his mag flashlight.

I can't see any reason why Rose-Bombs would have made up a story to protect the other individuals in which he had no involvement.

Any person with the tiniest bit of common sense would see that all of these friends ocrastrating such an elaborate cover up would just be plum rediculus.

Here is a DM time line with a very good investigative article about a monster named Daniel Messel.

Daniel Messel Timeline

July 11, 1997 Daniel Messel’s DNA collected by the state.

Aug 29, 2012 IU students file report with Bloomington Police. Say an older man approached one woman twice to offer a ride and yelled obscenities at her.

Sep 1, 2012 Woman reports attempted rape to IU Police. She reported being a vehicle with a man she didn’t know when he attacked her. DNA recovered from under her fingernails.

Sep 10, 2012 Bloomington Police speak again with women who made Aug 29 report.

Nov 3, 2012 Sexual Assault occurred but not reported until Nov 26.

Nov 15, 2012 Bloomington Police report they obtained new information about suspect in Aug 29 incident.

Nov 26, 2012 Young woman reports sexual battery to Bloomington Police. Says she accepted a ride from a man who attacked her in the vehicle. She escaped. Attack happened Nov 3.

Dec 2, 2012 Women report to Bloomington Police that suspicious man circled block then stopped to ask directions. They say they’ve encountered him several times over 6mo. BPD spoke with suspect, Messel, and released him. Officers found he had a camera with video of himself asking for directions from the IU students.

Dec 3, 2012 Bloomington Police speak again with woman who made Nov 26 report.

Dec 6, 2012 Bloomington Police make case of Nov 26 report inactive.

April 24, 2015 IU Student Hannah Wilson found murdered in Brown County.

April 27, 2015 Messel charged with Wilson’s murder.

Aug 10, 2016 Messel convicted of murdering Wilson

Aug 11, 2016 Victim in Sept 1, 2012 attack contacts IU Police. Believes Messel is the suspect in her attempted rape.

Oct 28, 2016 Messel charged with attempted rape for Sept 1, 2012 attack.

Oct 31, 2016 Victim in the sexual battery case (reported Nov 26, 2012) submits evidence to Bloomington Police.

Article Link: Questions swirl around history, DNA of Bloomington killer | wthr.com

yes to everything you wrote...

DM used the same area between Yogis and Kilroys. His work
was exactly between these two bars. He was with a coworker earlier in the evening before he stalked and killed Hannah.

As I always say, something about the bartender manager witness is way off. She circled the building because she said she saw Lauren fall headfirst into the concrete and saw a man take her and start walking. She did not come forward right away and IMO LE found her through video ID of license.

That she was also a witness in Hannahs death is just too weird.
She was questioned about knowing DM as a regular at Yogis which she confirmed. This info I received from source close to her.
In Laurens case, she was allegedly going to see a boy as she described him, as someone younger than herself. As she was leaving, she saw Lauren being abducted. and circled the block, but didnt call LE until days later after she had already told friends who allegedly urged her to.

DM was working a sPecific area and as you Point out, he was doing it regularly even after most likely abducting Lauren in 2O11. The way he did it, by observing the dynamics of the situation and knowing he would have others to take the blame. DeeP into the threads, we were discussing the assaults and near assaults in that exact area...still ongoing after Lauren and before Hannah.

Just like in SFK, the killer chooses drunk individuals who have been acting strangely, with their own friends and have gotten the attention of someone such as waiter, or bar manager to notice that, thereby throwing everyone off from the get go. Suddenly everything the victim and drunken friends have done all night including drugs and drug deals and being blacked out, becomes the target.

 

[Ixchel13]

just finished the article Ibiz posted, if anyone goes to our interactive map somewhere in the middle of this thread we had the kill zone mapped out a year before this detective.

IMO, all along, right after Lauren was abducted, LE knew about this guy IN CONNECTION with Lauren. The bar manager witness , in Hannahs case is the same woman who saw Lauren carried away! When Hannah was killed, LE interviewed her and she told them she knew DM, that he was a longtime regular at Yogis and that yes, DM had been there the night Hannah was killed.

Did she also tell LE that DM was the one who carried Lauren away I wonder. I am thinking she did.
The minute he became a suspect harassing women and being a convicted felon for crimes against women, and in possession of a video of him harassing them, he should have been apprehended, I mean Good Lord! FUBAR.
He was a violent felon ex con running around that 4 block area, the detective should have extended it west to College Ave, though, after 8th street because thats the street where they all lived such as 1th and C. 5N, and Smallwood where Lauren lived, and this monster was watching the same girls every night. Lauren would go up the street to JRs very late at night, and then back down to her building many times, they all did, and walk the 2 or 3 blocks home in 3 minutes, never thinking anyone was taking note of this.. In the article above, the girls on the porch on Grant Street, see Grant is right around the corner from Yogis. It gets a little spooky deja vuish, but Hannah and JW, Laurens bf, lived less than a half block away from each other , but more than 3 years apart . DM probably also saw Lauren there at Yogis with JW. He followed the girls around 2 or 3 blocks and figured out where they lived. Those girls on the porch, he had already seen them out!

But, he always waited for the blacked out girls. And now I see why after reading
Ibizs article. LE found he had blacked out *advertiser censored*. Lauren was also blacked out.
This is how all of these women suddenly realize they are in a car with a strange man, DM. Blacked out people are highly suggestive. But then they suddenly come awake, as these women did, even to the extreme of saving themselves at the last minute.



It never fails that when we find out about these evil creatures, we find out how horribly clever they can be because we do not think like they do. But they get caught because evil
has a way of eventually wearing down their caution. They need to put the mack down on this guy in prison until he confesses about Lauren.

I need to go way back into the threads, and find the articles I and others including Ros, were posting from mostly the Indiana Daily Student, about the assaults and attempted rapes, especially the attempted rapes outside of bars, that were
rampant during those 3 years after the 2O12 girls reported him. Maybe he can be connected to some of those and they can pressure him.

 

[Ixchel13]

just finished the article Ibiz posted, if anyone goes to our interactive map somewhere in the middle of this thread we had the kill zone mapped out a year before this detective.

IMO, all along, right after Lauren was abducted, LE knew about this guy IN CONNECTION with Lauren. The bar manager witness , in Hannahs case is the same woman who saw Lauren carried away! When Hannah was killed, LE interviewed her and she told them she knew DM, that he was a longtime regular at Yogis and that yes, DM had been there the night Hannah was killed.

Did she also tell LE that DM was the one who carried Lauren away I wonder. I am thinking she did.
The minute he became a suspect harassing women and being a convicted felon for crimes against women, and in possession of a video of him harassing them, he should have been apprehended, I mean Good Lord! FUBAR.
He was a violent felon ex con running around that 4 block area, the detective should have extended it west to College Ave, though, after 8th street because thats the street where they all lived such as 1th and C. 5N, and Smallwood where Lauren lived, and this monster was watching the same girls every night. Lauren would go up the street to JRs very late at night, and then back down to her building many times, they all did, and walk the 2 or 3 blocks home in 3 minutes, never thinking anyone was taking note of this.. In the article above, the girls on the porch on Grant Street, see Grant is right around the corner from Yogis. It gets a little spooky deja vuish, but Hannah and JW, Laurens bf, lived less than a half block away from each other , but more than 3 years apart . DM probably also saw Lauren there at Yogis with JW. He followed the girls around 2 or 3 blocks and figured out where they lived. Those girls on the porch, he had already seen them out!

But, he always waited for the blacked out girls. And now I see why after reading
Ibizs article. LE found he had blacked out *advertiser censored*. Lauren was also blacked out.
This is how all of these women suddenly realize they are in a car with a strange man, DM. Blacked out people are highly suggestive. But then they suddenly come awake, as these women did, even to the extreme of saving themselves at the last minute.



It never fails that when we find out about these evil creatures, we find out how horribly clever they can be because we do not think like they do. But they get caught because evil
has a way of eventually wearing down their caution. They need to put the mack down on this guy in prison until he confesses about Lauren.

I need to go way back into the threads, and find the articles I and others including Ros, were posting from mostly the Indiana Daily Student, about the assaults and attempted rapes, especially the attempted rapes outside of bars, that were
rampant during those 3 years after the 2O12 girls reported him. Maybe he can be connected to some of those and they can pressure him.

 

[Ixchel13]

I will never forget Lauren, although I realize that other missing women are just as sorrowful. But she vanished in my town.

When her mom and dad and sister came here, they showed their broken hearts for everyone to see. They, and Laurens friends, told us about Lauren. She was the adored daughter of wealthy parents. And she was also a kind and thoughtful young woman who was nice to a middle aged woman who sat beside her in a class, sharing notes. We saw through the Spierers as if it were our child and I knew if it were my son, I would feel exactly like she felt, lost, despairing, hopeless, nothing.

But yet never forget this will be resolved.

 

[anthropos]

yes to everything you wrote...

DM used the same area between Yogis and Kilroys. His work
was exactly between these two bars. He was with a coworker earlier in the evening before he stalked and killed Hannah.

As I always say, something about the bartender manager witness is way off. She circled the building because she said she saw Lauren fall headfirst into the concrete and saw a man take her and start walking. She did not come forward right away and IMO LE found her through video ID of license.

That she was also a witness in Hannahs death is just too weird.
She was questioned about knowing DM as a regular at Yogis which she confirmed. This info I received from source close to her.
In Laurens case, she was allegedly going to see a boy as she described him, as someone younger than herself. As she was leaving, she saw Lauren being abducted. and circled the block, but didnt call LE until days later after she had already told friends who allegedly urged her to.

DM was working a sPecific area and as you Point out, he was doing it regularly even after most likely abducting Lauren in 2O11. The way he did it, by observing the dynamics of the situation and knowing he would have others to take the blame. DeeP into the threads, we were discussing the assaults and near assaults in that exact area...still ongoing after Lauren and before Hannah.

Just like in SFK, the killer chooses drunk individuals who have been acting strangely, with their own friends and have gotten the attention of someone such as waiter, or bar manager to notice that, thereby throwing everyone off from the get go. Suddenly everything the victim and drunken friends have done all night including drugs and drug deals and being blacked out, becomes the target.

Hi, it’s been a long time since I’ve been on this thread, and I’m not totally caught up. Where’s the info on the bartender being the person driving the truck and witnessing LS with someone else? If anyone has an easy link to the reported crimes around that time, that would also be interesting to see. That’s compelling info to me.

Not remembering the direction she was walking, is it plausible she was heading to JW’s because she (if I remember correctly) didn’t have her keys, phone, or wallet? That’d be interesting.

Personally, I just find it hard to believe these guys could be tight lipped for this long, especially when they don’t owe anything to one another. MB, for instance, always seemed like a weird neutral party mixed into most of this. There would be no benefit to him staying quiet or being complicit in a cover up.

 

[jamicat]

I tend to 'flip flop' on this case between two scenarios :

1.Her 'friends' somehow being responsible

or

2.Her being abducted off the street after leaving the apartment.

I think both are good theories, but have potential holes in them also.

I always believed that the simplest explanation was that she was abducted or voluntarily went with someone in a vehicle on the way home. Her body could have been dumped anywhere, anytime after that and there is nothing to tie the vehicle or driver to Lauren or the area

I think it’s too complicated to assume that those wasted college guys were able to somehow collide and smuggle to body into their vehicles leaving no scent or trace, dump it somewhere and not be noticed or missed during all of that. Or that they could have all kept it quiet.

I go with the simplest explanation.

 

[Ixchel13]

Hi, it’s been a long time since I’ve been on this thread, and I’m not totally caught up. Where’s the info on the bartender being the person driving the truck and witnessing LS with someone else? If anyone has an easy link to the reported crimes around that time, that would also be interesting to see. That’s compelling info to me.

Not remembering the direction she was walking, is it plausible she was heading to JW’s because she (if I remember correctly) didn’t have her keys, phone, or wallet? That’d be interesting.

Personally, I just find it hard to believe these guys could be tight lipped for this long, especially when they don’t owe anything to one another. MB, for instance, always seemed like a weird neutral party mixed into most of this. There would be no benefit to him staying quiet or being complicit in a cover up.

bartender witness was not driving the white truck. Cops never said she was driving the white truck. But that she came forward almost a week later to say she saw Lauren hit the sidewalk and be knocked unconscious then carried up the street by man, so she circled the block. All this info with all links and cross references etc is in back threads.

LE really played us with this witness. First of all, she gave a different time and place for Laurens fall, and everyone on here was quick to reference the alley video and call her a liar. LE just said her story did not match the alley video. True. But they never said there was not another fall nor did they deny it. Bar witness saw a second fall and different man an hour after first fall.

That she was working at Yogis the night DM was there and left to stalk and kill Hannah and was questioned by LE about it has been ascertained by someone close to her I cannot name. But Vidocq did question her concerning Lauren and this is all in back threads and way before Hannah was murdered.
Also in the years between Lauren and Hannah, we posted many many times about assaults occurring around and in these bars on women usually rufied, in the same exact crime zone as DM. Turns out during this time almost a dozen women came forward to reort the same guy stalking them.

When you take our map and superimpose Laurens crime area with Hannahs, its chillingly similar both starting there at Kilroys and going north towards Yogis.
It is a real horrible deja vu when you see that Hannah only lived right around the corner from JW bf of Lauren...and so did the women who reported DM to LE in between the two murders.

Business as usual as the assaulted murdered students are replaced by new victims in the same areas located around these callous clubs and bars.

 

[LongTallTexan]

Once again, it could be either and I don’t understand why people are so passionate one way or the other, both are reasonable.

Most logical statement I've heard in a while...we don't know, yet some are still trying to convince others of their viewpoint....I love the passion, but we have our own perspective and opinions. Let's focus on the sleuthing more than the convincing....unfortunately for Lauren and Family, not much here to sleuth.

 

[Ixchel13]

Most logical statement I've heard in a while...we don't know, yet some are still trying to convince others of their viewpoint....I love the passion, but we have our own perspective and opinions. Let's focus on the sleuthing more than the convincing....unfortunately for Lauren and Family, not much here to sleuth.

at first glance you may be right but we may be dealing with a 2-almost 3 decade serial killer, we'll see.

 

[vgulbridi]

That was an interesting read but you made a ton of assumptions. I am assuming if she was already dead, a dog would have hit on a deceased persons remains in the apartment. I also would think LE would have been much more aggressive if they had video of LS appearing “dead” on camera.

This also makes assumptions: 1) That police dogs are infallible, 2) that her body was not moved quickly enough to avoid being detected, 3) that the boys did not have someone powerful helping them, with means to help conceal the scent of the cadaver, 4) that there isn't actually footage of Lauren appearing "dead," because there is. The Bloomington Police Dept. just hasn't released it.

 

[vgulbridi]

After Lauren Spierer’s last recorded fall, there is no indication that she ever was conscious again. Only the inconsistent statements from MB and JR claim that she was alive. CR had the convenient amnesia. JR's houseguest(s) statements are known only to LE (assuming they ever talked with them). It appears to me that she may have died right there after that last recorded fall. It's possible that she was alive but unconscious and CR had ill intent. That would be a significant reason to hide her body as it might contain evidence of rape. The story that MB gave about CR being in such bad shape isn't consistent with the video record of him or witness statements. However, it might have actually happened later; if for example CR decided to take advantage of Lauren, and she died in his room. Then CR might have freaked out and MB might have indeed called JR to for help, Only then does MB's story of mothering CR almost seems plausible. As discussed hundreds of times before, JR had no choice but to cover it up because it would lead back to him anyway. My first inclination is to think that she actually died after that last recorded fall. To me, the explanation for most of her things being found many feet away is that she was picked up and / or dragged over there. She was unconscious and since she couldn’t walk on her own, she either couldn’t get up or was dead right then. That would have been CR doing that. He was with her at the time, but why he stopped supporting her is noteworthy. If she went into cardiac arrest after that fall, she would have needed immediate CPR and 911 call. Assuming that CR was drunk / high but still somewhat conscious his actions might be delayed and his judgement impaired. That's the best case scenario for him. I think someone made the conscious decision to get her keycard and ID right there OR she had those 2 items concealed on her body like in a bra OR CR purposefully took those things from her earlier for no good reason. The fact that JR knows about those 2 items is a clue, a powerful one to me. I think it's most likely that CR had those 2 items, and that she died where those other items were found. Realizing that she was not breathing and that he could not wake her, CR brought her to or near to 5N and got MB to get JR. It is possible in the panic of that moment that MB did not know if she were alive or not, and CR were he not to have amnesia, could argue the same thing. OF course the obvious question is why not call 911? This is the whole problem here. They failed to call 911 and then when it became clear that she was
Dead, the cover up ensued. A fairly simple and fast moving chain of events. Based on all of the publicly known facts I think this is the most likely thing that happened. Some twists on it perhaps, like maybe she actually died on the way to 5N or at CR/MB's place. But I don't think she made it to 5N and not alive if she did. I think the stories of CR/MB and JR are contrived, calculated and orchestrated by JR. And so the idea that JR actually let her leave after all of what happened before, isn't believable at all. His own admissions of her condition destroy his story. Between the video and JR’s description, no way she walked out of his place on her own, going a different way than she came. But you see, when JR made up the story of her leaving, he did not know cameras recorded not only her condition, but also the way she came. I hope that someday they will reveal where she is, so that her family can get some relief. The fact that this has not happened by now, indicates how sociopathic they all are. no guilt, no conscience. They might rationalize that it was an accidental death. But tormenting her family this way is not an accident. It's too bad that LE and the FBI are taking so long to get somewhere.

After careful review of the case, this is where I stand as well. Her condition after leaving Kilroy's, and then after striking her head on the concrete steps, left her in no state to be up and walking around. CR was practically carrying her around the area before she had her falls. After the falls, she was, well, lifeless. There was no way she was waking up again that night, if ever again.

 

[Ixchel13]

This also makes assumptions: 1) That police dogs are infallible, 2) that her body was not moved quickly enough to avoid being detected, 3) that the boys did not have someone powerful helping them, with means to help conceal the scent of the cadaver, 4) that there isn't actually footage of Lauren appearing "dead," because there is. The Bloomington Police Dept. just hasn't released it.

1.cadaver dogs are usually infallible
2.doesn't work that way, cadaver is cadaver
3. just no, this wasnt a movie
4. balderdash.

 

[Ixchel13]

After careful review of the case, this is where I stand as well. Her condition after leaving Kilroy's, and then after striking her head on the concrete steps, left her in no state to be up and walking around. CR was practically carrying her around the area before she had her falls. After the falls, she was, well, lifeless. There was no way she was waking up again that night, if ever again.

She was seen in the alley video at around 25O am being half carried and described by the hired investigators that viewed it as very much alive. It is the fallacy that Lauren was entirely unconscious that has skewered this investigation from the git go. It has always been MOO that Mike Beth gave her a snort of whatever he was snorting to study, most likely adderall. This was enough to start her into a blacked out state AGAIN. In that state she demanded to go home. MOO they called her bf and ut her out on the street. But before lazy, stoned bf got there, DM grabbed her.

Yes, its obvious she did too much. But right when she needed them, her friends didnt make sure she got home.
And her roommates wouldnt let her in. With the right civil suit, her folks would win. Focus should be on why her roommates refused her entrance to her own door where she would have then been safe from harm, and, why when she insisted on going home, after they had sold her the drugs that made her so vulnerable, wouldnt they have called a cab at least, and make sure that she got home safely instead of kicking her out the door.

No matter what, these friends never get a break from realizing they abetted killing a friend .

 

[cargyle305]

Most logical statement I've heard in a while...we don't know, yet some are still trying to convince others of their viewpoint....I love the passion, but we have our own perspective and opinions. Let's focus on the sleuthing more than the convincing....unfortunately for Lauren and Family, not much here to sleuth.

Did you listen to this episode where the private investigator opens up?
‎Finding Lauren: Episode 6: The Private Investigator Speaks on Apple Podcasts

 

[LongTallTexan]

Did you listen to this episode where the private investigator opens up?
‎Finding Lauren: Episode 6: The Private Investigator Speaks on Apple Podcasts

I have. Not sure I understand the reason for the question....I don't question anyone's perspective/opinion, but there are plenty of posts here trying to 'convince' others of their perspective, but no one really knows....I thought the statement/post that I quoted made about different possibilities was appropriate...even the investigator says 33 1/3. I don't think that the Podcast confirms anyone....could be 5N guys, could be Jesse, could be DM, could be stranger or could be other....no one really knows. So yeah, I do understand the scenarios and passion, I don't understand why the convincing one way or the other.