Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[layer]

I think the crimes points to one man who was completely disorganized and overly excited and didn’t know what to do fully as it was the first time he had committed a crime. Thats why the crime scene is chaotic.

This oddly makes sense.
In effect, the CS is a big mess because the killer was a big mess.

 

[vinayd]

This is the PCA for the arrest warrant. In it, he uses a modified version of the PCA for the search warrant. In this one, he does not use military times. I have no idea why one is different from the other.

It's my understanding from the Indiana Supreme Court decision that there should be only one version of a document in the CCS. If there is information in it that's not for public viewing, then those parts are simply redacted, not changed.

The unredacted version of the PCA for the search warrant should be the original. AND all final docs should have a filed date on them. IMO

Now I need to back to the contempt hearing. I do think the D was arguing about two PCAs being leaked. Maybe they mean both of RAs and not one for RL.

ETA: It was located in the 3/25 POST HEARING MEMORANDUM

 

[layer]

This is the PCA for the arrest warrant. In it, he uses a modified version of the PCA for the search warrant. In this one, he does not use military times. I have no idea why one is different from the other.
It's my understanding from the Indiana Supreme Court decision that there should be only one version of a document in the CCS. If there is information in it that's not for public viewing, then those parts are simply redacted, not changed.
The unredacted version of the PCA for the search warrant should be the original. AND all final docs should have a filed date on them. IMO

When I said Onward Thru The Fog you took it literally. Very informative!

 

[FrostedGlass]

I cant help with the Military info but I have in my notes the Alias
richard allen alias
RE: Abby and Libby / Arrest: Richard Matthew Allen
Alias: Craigh Ross Rentfrow
His alias has a handful of drug charges and more.

JMO but maybe RA was using this person's name with all the charges as a screen name for the CSAM sites he was using.
IDK, just my guess.

Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase

That whole thing was kind of strange. The alias was notified by friends and he was going to call whomever to get it straightened out. I don't know if he ever did.

Since it's never been mentioned by either side, I'll assume it was an error.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Now I need to back to the contempt hearing. I do think the D was arguing about two PCAs being leaked. Maybe they mean both of RAs and not one for RL.

ETA: It was located in the 3/25 POST HEARING MEMORANDUM
View attachment 498827

Beginning on Page 53/84
They begin talking about 2 versions which I think are the PCA for RA's arrest.
One of the YTers claimed he had the unredacted PCA filed in support of the charges against RA. He claimed there were two versions of it - 1.0 and 2.0. The public was given the 2.0 version.

3.18.24 Contempt - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[justtrish]

I think RA purposely went there for Abby & Libby

I am leaning this way also. If he was after any random person, then why not BB? Sure she didn't go on the bridge, but she was 50feet away from him and nobody else was around. She then passes Abby and Libby as they walk toward BG/RA. He got really lucky (and I hate that work to describe this, but I can't think of another one to use) or he knew they would be there.

Now HOW did he know they'd be there. That is the question. Seems he knew before they arrived because he was there before them so I don't think it was just he could see them on an app because he arrived long before they did (like 15 minutes before they did if I'm remembering correctly).

 

[justtrish]

Or, to your last point, he reversed his jacket. Tan lining. Possible.

OR he took the jacket off and the hoodie he had on under it was tan? He could have wrapped the jacket around his waist or been carrying it over his arm.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I'm still tangled up in the dots in the time lapse video.

The times above play right into that.

Where was I that day? Two girls murdered, seems like the whole world -- everybody's world -- should stop. But it didn't. Except for those two dots. In some ways they're still at MHB, locked in time.

And if a dot represents each of us, I think of the dots moving around Delphi that morning. Dressing, brushing teeth, having pancakes. Others going to work, with plans for a lunch hour walk. Still another pocketing a gun, knives....

The chanceness of some of it.... yet each dot moving forward unaware of the movement of other dots or the impact they'd have on theirs.

Turn-around lady -- she turned away from BG, then watched A and L walk toward death. With no way of knowing. It would not surprise me if animals went quiet and the air dropped 10°

Had she been minutes ahead or minutes behind, how would that have impacted the day? Had she skipped her walk? Had she gone onto the bridge?

So many ways those dots could move.... so many for them to continue moving... if BG had stayed home.

He should have.

JMO

I don't give GH any views so I didn't watch his video.

There's a timeframe that I've been interested in; do you recall seeing any of these on his video?
If so, I'll bite the bullet and to watch it.
1. I'm curious what time the girls claimed to have seen RA and their location.
2. I want a pinpoint where they are on the old bridge (where BB saw them)
3. BB's timestamp for when she passed the HH cam (which we have)
4. The distance between where the girls saw RA and where they were when BB saw them
5. The distance between where BB saw the girls and where she passed the HH video.

 

[vinayd]

I don't give GH any views so I didn't watch his video.

There's a timeframe that I've been interested in; do you recall seeing any of these on his video?
If so, I'll bite the bullet and to watch it.
1. I'm curious what time the girls claimed to have seen RA and their location.
2. I want a pinpoint where they are on the old bridge (where BB saw them)
3. BB's timestamp for when she passed the HH cam (which we have)
4. The distance between where the girls saw RA and where they were when BB saw them
5. The distance between where BB saw the girls and where she passed the HH video.

I understand but please watch as I want to see your thoughts. It lines up with the PCA and will give you an overhead view of surrounding areas. All witnesses are time stamped and marked on the video.

ETA- all that you asked is on there.

 

[katydid23]

This is why I question what was leaked by whom. I have not read this document yet and do believe MW and RF did leak something - the F tree photo was discussed allegedly by them in messages that were screenshot. “Leaked” photos of clothes in the creek had been out for awhile before this IIRC. Who took photos and who disseminated them. I am not convinced MW or RF is to blame for the photos of the girls’ bodies that were purportedly leaked. Given that we are now discussing a tripod (and we know LE was searching for recording devices at RL’s) I wonder if the perpetrator(s) are responsible for the more serious leak which was then blamed on MW and RF. I’d really like to see what exactly MW admits to re: specific leaked photos.

Even if that had happened, and the perps leaked photos awhile ago, that does not exonerate MW or RF from their mess. IMO

 

[vinayd]

Even if that had happened, and the perps leaked photos awhile ago, that does not exonerate MW or RF from their mess. IMO

Yes because the entire fiasco is that they were under a gag order. We had a lot of years of speculation and I'm sure things got out that shouldn't have.

 

[katydid23]

not only were searchers first to come upon the CS, but they were the first to photograph it
WTF?
Just when you think you can't be shocked by this case, this pops up.

These are allegations by the D though, right? Has it been confirmed by LE?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Here is a PCA link with witness names redacted:

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Yes this is the one I used. It does not match the one <modsnip> showing military time throughout.
But thank you.
Perhaps there is more than one version. One is blue ray and the other is regular dvd.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

BTW -- It's the only link to the Probable Cause Affidavit that I possess.

ETA: I just noticed it is not signed so wth? It is from Fox59.com

This one also does not match the excerpts you sent earlier where military time was as used throughout. I am asking you to link that document.
The document you sent was page 9 of PCA per your notes. This document has only 8 pages and is labeled as such in the lower left hand corner.

Thank you. Since the discussion has been about RA using military time in his narrative with DD then you sent a couple pages of a document that showed military time throughout the document. I am asking for you to link the document that you cited as the PCA.
Or if not the PCA then please cite the document and link. Thank you.

 

[katydid23]

Part I Page 74 "Some guy had taken photos of some clothing and other things" was the statement.

EBM: Added Part 1

IMO, there's a big difference between a searcher taking photos of evidence they've seen, versus taking photos of a dead body.

I don't believe any of the searchers took pictures of the girls. They may have taken photos of clothing in the creek or on the bank, etc....but not of the bodies. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Apparently not the big deal I was at first imagining. Photos of clothing in or being recovered from water. Don’t see how this helps the D much at any rate.

The truth of it doesn't help the D, but the distorted and exaggerated rumours, like 'searchers took pix of the bodies' helped the D. And that's what they wanted, IMO.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I am leaning this way also. If he was after any random person, then why not BB? Sure she didn't go on the bridge, but she was 50feet away from him and nobody else was around. She then passes Abby and Libby as they walk toward BG/RA. He got really lucky (and I hate that work to describe this, but I can't think of another one to use) or he knew they would be there.

Now HOW did he know they'd be there. That is the question. Seems he knew before they arrived because he was there before them so I don't think it was just he could see them on an app because he arrived long before they did (like 15 minutes before they did if I'm remembering correctly).

Yes it bothers me that he seems to have known his targets would be there. But I waffle on it. He may have seen the other group of girls on the trial as he drove his car westbound on CR 300N but by the time he got on the trails they may have been too close to possible witnesses ( highway) or perhaps one too young or just too many for him to control to his desired location.
I doubt he saw BB and she should be grateful for that because it appears by the video he came prepared to carry out his plan.
He arrived before Abby and Libby and went to the bridge and lingered.
Perhaps he was just waiting on the right victims to fall into his trap. I believe he saw them passed them and then he waited for them to start across MHB then he went to see if there were anymore potential witnesses coming - saw there wasn’t and sprung the trap.
I do believe he planned and executed this crime alone. His wife stated he walked the trails often.JMO
Whenever anyone brings in doubt that a grown man armed with a loaded gun and knife could commit this on his own I am reminded of 911 and the the enormous tragedy that occurred from men armed with box cutters as weapons outnumbered 10/1.
Fear+isolation=compliance.

All my opinions

 

[layer]

He may have seen the other group of girls on the trial as he drove his car westbound on CR 300N but by the time he got on the trails they may have been too close to possible witnesses ( highway) or perhaps one too young or just too many for him to control to his desired location.

It seems odd that he would be coming from the east, doesn't it? What's to the east of Delphi?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Yes - this is what I was getting at. The first indication that MW was involved on strategy and not just a friend who 'snookered' the defence came in Rozzi's memo to the Court around the time of the dismissal IIRC. But it was never backed with any evidence - just an assertion. And critically Baldwin never said any of this in the multiple communications with the Judge in the lead up to the pivotal chambers hearing.

Then at this recent march hearing it is the same thing. MW did not testify. Baldwin did not testify. Yet DH asserted MW was a consultant, and tried to assert privilege over the communications.

So I've always wondered what the actual evidence for the idea that MW was a consultant - and it seems it is based on some statements by Baldwin to law enforcement in his 2 hour interview.

Honestly I don't know why the Judge should accept that contention, given Baldwin didn't make it when he had the chance to take the Judge into his confidence about the whole MW incident. Instead he pretty clearly sought to conceal things from the Judge. Say what you want about whether he should cooperate with law enforcement but it is pretty outrageous to deceive the Judge.

Unfortunately we can not see the screenshots of the messages between Baldwin & MW, but I think further things here speak against the defence version. Baldwin could of course have testified as to what his real relationship with MW was, and how it was legit per the attorneys who gave evidence in support of collaboration with 3rd parties. But IMO he could not do so, because then he would have been cross examined about the messages e.g. apparently telling MW to contact the media.

The Judge is not an idiot here. If Baldwin won't say it in court, why should she believe it?

Yes pick your lane then pick your poison. IMO

IMO, there's a big difference between a searcher taking photos of evidence they've seen, versus taking photos of a dead body.

I don't believe any of the searchers took pictures of the girls. They may have taken photos of clothing in the creek or on the bank, etc....but not of the bodies. JMO

Yes a searcher is not an officer of the law or court. A citizen. Ridiculous place blame on LE or prosecution for the random acts of searcher whom BTW seemed to give more reverence and respect to the victims than the defense team. IMO
To AB/BR and now DH the spread of crime scene photos are just collateral damage for them to get strategy in front of Joe Public.
All mooooo

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It seems odd that he would be coming from the east, doesn't it? What's to the east of Delphi?

A more scenic route. Less cameras more country. In the winter you can see people on the trail and bridge through the trees while on the road.
He could see if RL was home and if anyone was at the cemetery, he could see It anyone was parked at the trailhead entrance at Mears. (Adults)
Or another theory - he left equipment such as a tripod or tarp too cumbersome and obvious to carry. Just a few ideas there for you.

He basically almost circled the trail before deciding to execute his plan.
JMO