Clouddown
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Where, when and who was this?
Found Deceased Canada - Kathleen Rose Ferraz-Duchesneau, 25, car found abandoned, Devon, Alberta, 6 Jan 2019
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Moriarty
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I think Kryanna is referring to Tommy Lance Harrington noted above in post #6. Harrington went missing the day before near Grande Cache, AB, which is approximately a 4.5 to 5 hour drive from Devon.
Clouddown
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About one hour south of Grande Prairie which should put him on that long, long list of missing persons from the Grande Prairie area. I'm not trying to jump the gun here, but to be stuck and visible from the highway anywhere in the Grande Prairie area could be considered risky business.
Clouddown
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It's not so far to travel from there to Devon for someone who makes a living driving. It is odd that these two occurrences were one day apart and yet not so odd that they involved a male and a female. I think if we open our eyes we'll see that it's happening all around us and seemingly in every direction to both men and women. A prayer for both of them.
Moriarty
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I just posted an opinion over on the Amber Tuccaro thread (CANADA - Canada - Amber Tuccaro, 20, Nisku, AB, 18 Aug 2010), that I thought I should share here as well in case some of you don’t look in over there.
To be clear, my opinion only.
If Kathleen’s disappearance turns out to be something sinister and horrible, and I really hope this is not the case, then perhaps we are looking at a predator of opportunity. I have a strong feeling this is the case with Amber’s disappearance and murder nine years ago not far away in Nisku, AB.
There is a possibility of a connection to a person in the Onoway, AB area in Amber’s case who frequents the Edmonton International Airport. If he travels there often, I would suspect that to get from Onoway to the airport, this person would likely travel south and east, eventually taking Highway 60 through Devon, crossing that bridge.
I live in that area, and that’s the way I go!
If this person is the predator the courts have said he is, could he have perhaps passed Kathleen spun out in the island between lanes by the bridge on 60? Or could he have done more to ensure that Kathleen spun out?
Complete conjecture of course. But too many, far, far too many, young women have gone missing in the area. Could this person be involved?
To be clear, my opinion only.
If Kathleen’s disappearance turns out to be something sinister and horrible, and I really hope this is not the case, then perhaps we are looking at a predator of opportunity. I have a strong feeling this is the case with Amber’s disappearance and murder nine years ago not far away in Nisku, AB.
There is a possibility of a connection to a person in the Onoway, AB area in Amber’s case who frequents the Edmonton International Airport. If he travels there often, I would suspect that to get from Onoway to the airport, this person would likely travel south and east, eventually taking Highway 60 through Devon, crossing that bridge.
I live in that area, and that’s the way I go!
If this person is the predator the courts have said he is, could he have perhaps passed Kathleen spun out in the island between lanes by the bridge on 60? Or could he have done more to ensure that Kathleen spun out?
Complete conjecture of course. But too many, far, far too many, young women have gone missing in the area. Could this person be involved?
Gypseygirl
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The first poster states, "she may have wandered off in a disoriented state ".
That seems to be a bit of a odd statement considering no evidence of her having accident?
I thought the average young person these days cling to their devices, not leaving them at home?
So many odd variables to this story.
I was born and raised on the other side of the Country but moved to Alberta in the mid 1990's, so many missing women between Calgary and Edmonton although in my humble opinion Kathleen does not fit the profile.
That seems to be a bit of a odd statement considering no evidence of her having accident?
I thought the average young person these days cling to their devices, not leaving them at home?
So many odd variables to this story.
I was born and raised on the other side of the Country but moved to Alberta in the mid 1990's, so many missing women between Calgary and Edmonton although in my humble opinion Kathleen does not fit the profile.
Moriarty
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Welcome Gypseygirl!
I think you’re right…there seems to be a bit of misinformation/confusion between the different news sources.
In the CTV news article I noted above (Post #16), Kathleen’s brother-in-law states that the police came to his house and he went “right away to the bridge where she crashed her vehicle” (emphasis mine). I got the impression that her brother-in-law was told by LE that she had crashed.
Also, I agree that Kathleen does not fit the general profile of so many of the other missing women in the area. However, if something nefarious did occur here, it could simply be a circumstance of opportunity. I really hope not though.
I think you’re right…there seems to be a bit of misinformation/confusion between the different news sources.
In the CTV news article I noted above (Post #16), Kathleen’s brother-in-law states that the police came to his house and he went “right away to the bridge where she crashed her vehicle” (emphasis mine). I got the impression that her brother-in-law was told by LE that she had crashed.
Also, I agree that Kathleen does not fit the general profile of so many of the other missing women in the area. However, if something nefarious did occur here, it could simply be a circumstance of opportunity. I really hope not though.
Moriarty
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Further to the above posting:
I live about 15-20 minutes NE of Devon, and I drove over to volunteer in the search two Saturday’s after Kathleen disappeared, only to find out they had closed the HQ and were organizing via the Facebook page from that point onward. But even two weeks later, Kathleen’s tire tracks were still visible in the meridian between the north- and south-bound lanes.
For those who don’t know the area, the highway is divided by a meridian approximately two and half to three car widths across at the widest section. The highway is 80 km/h through Devon, then turns roughly westwards and heads down a long hill until it gets to the bridge and then heads northwest across the bridge. The speed limit is 100 km/h down the hill, but having driven this route many times, I can tell you it is really easy to go much faster!
Two weeks after she disappeared, I could see Kathleen’s tire tracks in the snow of the meridian. She had clearly been driving down the hill on the northbound lane and instead of making the slow turn of the highway northwestwards towards the bottom of the hill, her tracks entered the snow of the meridian. The snow was approximately 35 cm deep (a foot or more)…maybe a little more.
From the looks of her tracks, Kathleen’s car continued in the meridian for quite a ways (approximately 5 to 6 car lengths), and then it looked like it must have spun around and stopped facing southeastwards closer to the southbound lanes. When her car was towed away, they took it out on the southbound side.
It’s just my opinion here, but I think the snow was too deep for any car to have pulled out of the meridian on its own once in it, unless it’s a 4x4.
Of course, what the tracks don’t tell us is what happened for Kathleen to have driven into the ditch in the first place.
In my opinion, it can be one of three possibilities:
1) Kathleen accidentally drove off and got stuck. This could easily happen. The road has a slow bend on that hill, and the tracks entered the meridian approximately where the highway starts bending. It’s dark…the highway is fast and on a hill…it’s winter and possibly slippery…it’s very easy to accidentally hit the soft snow of the meridian and get pulled into it.
2) Kathleen deliberately drove into the meridian to park. Again possible, but not really a practical or common sense first choice. There is an access road running parallel to the northbound lane that leads to a large parking lot for the park/picnic area/campground along the river under the bridge. If someone wanted to head to the bridge at night, I think one would most likely be inclined to head to this area and then climb the embankment to the highway/bridge. The highway is not pedestrian friendly in any way. And if Kathleen wanted to head to the bridge for her own reasons that night, why not pull over on the right hand shoulder, the open side of the bridge, and most natural pull-over side for drivers in North America?
3) Kathleen was nudged off the road by someone else. This may seem a little far-fetched. I am no traffic investigator and certainly don’t know what sort of tracks would have been made if this had occurred. Also, we have no idea about what shape Kathleen’s vehicle was in, if there was a dent or collision marks, etc. But I seem to recall someone in Saskatchewan years ago who used to have “accidents” with single women drivers along country highways in order to force a contact with them/offer assistance or ride.
Again, just my speculation.
I live about 15-20 minutes NE of Devon, and I drove over to volunteer in the search two Saturday’s after Kathleen disappeared, only to find out they had closed the HQ and were organizing via the Facebook page from that point onward. But even two weeks later, Kathleen’s tire tracks were still visible in the meridian between the north- and south-bound lanes.
For those who don’t know the area, the highway is divided by a meridian approximately two and half to three car widths across at the widest section. The highway is 80 km/h through Devon, then turns roughly westwards and heads down a long hill until it gets to the bridge and then heads northwest across the bridge. The speed limit is 100 km/h down the hill, but having driven this route many times, I can tell you it is really easy to go much faster!
Two weeks after she disappeared, I could see Kathleen’s tire tracks in the snow of the meridian. She had clearly been driving down the hill on the northbound lane and instead of making the slow turn of the highway northwestwards towards the bottom of the hill, her tracks entered the snow of the meridian. The snow was approximately 35 cm deep (a foot or more)…maybe a little more.
From the looks of her tracks, Kathleen’s car continued in the meridian for quite a ways (approximately 5 to 6 car lengths), and then it looked like it must have spun around and stopped facing southeastwards closer to the southbound lanes. When her car was towed away, they took it out on the southbound side.
It’s just my opinion here, but I think the snow was too deep for any car to have pulled out of the meridian on its own once in it, unless it’s a 4x4.
Of course, what the tracks don’t tell us is what happened for Kathleen to have driven into the ditch in the first place.
In my opinion, it can be one of three possibilities:
1) Kathleen accidentally drove off and got stuck. This could easily happen. The road has a slow bend on that hill, and the tracks entered the meridian approximately where the highway starts bending. It’s dark…the highway is fast and on a hill…it’s winter and possibly slippery…it’s very easy to accidentally hit the soft snow of the meridian and get pulled into it.
2) Kathleen deliberately drove into the meridian to park. Again possible, but not really a practical or common sense first choice. There is an access road running parallel to the northbound lane that leads to a large parking lot for the park/picnic area/campground along the river under the bridge. If someone wanted to head to the bridge at night, I think one would most likely be inclined to head to this area and then climb the embankment to the highway/bridge. The highway is not pedestrian friendly in any way. And if Kathleen wanted to head to the bridge for her own reasons that night, why not pull over on the right hand shoulder, the open side of the bridge, and most natural pull-over side for drivers in North America?
3) Kathleen was nudged off the road by someone else. This may seem a little far-fetched. I am no traffic investigator and certainly don’t know what sort of tracks would have been made if this had occurred. Also, we have no idea about what shape Kathleen’s vehicle was in, if there was a dent or collision marks, etc. But I seem to recall someone in Saskatchewan years ago who used to have “accidents” with single women drivers along country highways in order to force a contact with them/offer assistance or ride.
Again, just my speculation.
Moriarty
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One other thing, related to the above posting…
The CTV article I linked to in Post #16 also quotes Kathleen’s brother-in-law as saying “…I couldn’t even see his [police officer] footprints. And within the hour, I couldn’t see my own” when he went to the scene of Kathleen’s vehicle the night she disappeared.
It was lightly snowing that night. But as I just posted above, the car tracks in the meridian were very visible two weeks later, as were the numerous footprints all over the area from search parties from the previous two weeks.
So while it may be true that whatever footprints were made on the plowed and clear highway were quickly covered over with the light snow, any footprints/tracks made in the deep snow of the embankments or in the meridian were not filled in.
Like I say, that highway is not really pedestrian friendly. If I were stuck in that meridian, I would want to walk back up the hill into Devon for help. I would not want to walk on that highway though, especially at night. I would likely climb down the embankment to the access road for the park which has a footpath running alongside it, with stairs to assist in climbing the hill.
If Kathleen had done this, her footprints should have been visible as the snow was at least mid-shin deep on me when I went there to volunteer for the search party two weeks later. Light snow would not have filled those in.
In my opinion, if there really were no visible footprints from Kathleen that night, she either stayed on the highway or got into another vehicle.
The CTV article I linked to in Post #16 also quotes Kathleen’s brother-in-law as saying “…I couldn’t even see his [police officer] footprints. And within the hour, I couldn’t see my own” when he went to the scene of Kathleen’s vehicle the night she disappeared.
It was lightly snowing that night. But as I just posted above, the car tracks in the meridian were very visible two weeks later, as were the numerous footprints all over the area from search parties from the previous two weeks.
So while it may be true that whatever footprints were made on the plowed and clear highway were quickly covered over with the light snow, any footprints/tracks made in the deep snow of the embankments or in the meridian were not filled in.
Like I say, that highway is not really pedestrian friendly. If I were stuck in that meridian, I would want to walk back up the hill into Devon for help. I would not want to walk on that highway though, especially at night. I would likely climb down the embankment to the access road for the park which has a footpath running alongside it, with stairs to assist in climbing the hill.
If Kathleen had done this, her footprints should have been visible as the snow was at least mid-shin deep on me when I went there to volunteer for the search party two weeks later. Light snow would not have filled those in.
In my opinion, if there really were no visible footprints from Kathleen that night, she either stayed on the highway or got into another vehicle.
Gypseygirl
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Was she by chance coming from the brother in laws home? Did she reside there?
Was there an argument that caused Kathleen to leave in a hurry and caused her to forget her phone?
Did she have a purse or was that left at home as well?
Why leave the vehicle running if walking away from the scene?
Is it normal procedure for police to immediately pick up a family member and take them to the scene of what might be considered even early on a possible crime scene?- this is really bugging me....
These are questions I will be pondering this evening...
Was there an argument that caused Kathleen to leave in a hurry and caused her to forget her phone?
Did she have a purse or was that left at home as well?
Why leave the vehicle running if walking away from the scene?
Is it normal procedure for police to immediately pick up a family member and take them to the scene of what might be considered even early on a possible crime scene?- this is really bugging me....
These are questions I will be pondering this evening...
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Gypseygirl
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There is a sadness in those eyes that can't be denied....
Gypseygirl
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I am just going to throw this out there - there have been statements made that aren't sitting right in my stomach.
I know I am being a little vague because I am trying to follow the rules, but what if Kathleen wasn't the person driving?
Moriarty help me here, as you were a volunteer at the scene, in your opinion, could this have been staged?
I know I am being a little vague because I am trying to follow the rules, but what if Kathleen wasn't the person driving?
Moriarty help me here, as you were a volunteer at the scene, in your opinion, could this have been staged?
Moriarty
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That is a really interesting idea, Gypseygirl. I have to admit, that possibility hadn’t occurred to me. I’m going to have to re-read what info is out there today, but there are definitely some strange things like you mentionned: the car left running, the phone left behind...
A quick question that your idea has brought to my mind: in a previous career I had to use the Alberta motor vehicle database and the Canadian criminal record database (CPIC) occasionally. If anyone out there knows, when LE finds a car and looks up the registration from the license plate, how do they so quickly find the phone numbers of a family member? I don’t remember family relations being listed on vehicle registration but it has been a few years.
Just to clarify: I wasn’t part of the official search. It was closed down the day before I went over there. I just poked around and walked along the river for a few kilometres and tried looking in parts of the woods where there weren’t obvious paths from searchers.
A quick question that your idea has brought to my mind: in a previous career I had to use the Alberta motor vehicle database and the Canadian criminal record database (CPIC) occasionally. If anyone out there knows, when LE finds a car and looks up the registration from the license plate, how do they so quickly find the phone numbers of a family member? I don’t remember family relations being listed on vehicle registration but it has been a few years.
Just to clarify: I wasn’t part of the official search. It was closed down the day before I went over there. I just poked around and walked along the river for a few kilometres and tried looking in parts of the woods where there weren’t obvious paths from searchers.
What if she was being hit on by a family member...
What if she decided to disappear because of the discomfort of dealing directly with the situation ...
What if it was,easier to "disappear" to Quebec where family had connections....
All my "What ifs."
I pray Kathleen is alive...trying to find a way to reconnect with family.
All My Opinion Only
What if she decided to disappear because of the discomfort of dealing directly with the situation ...
What if it was,easier to "disappear" to Quebec where family had connections....
All my "What ifs."
I pray Kathleen is alive...trying to find a way to reconnect with family.
All My Opinion Only
Clouddown
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Was there debris at the scene and damage to the car that indicated she had been hit? It's easy to stray of course with disappearances and it's highly unlikely that foul play wasn't involved if there had been damage to the vehicle at the scene.
I was referring to this. It’s so strange! There was no other vehicle involved in the accident and her cell was left at home. I drive that bridge to go to work everyday. It is quite busy. I find it odd I have not seen any report of any witnesses. The roads were not bad that day so shouldn’t have been a cause for her to go off the road.
I find it very odd there is no mention of where she was heading specifically to or from. I have seen no talk about who was the last person to see her or what her mental state was when they last saw her. It seems to have been complete silence from the RCMP since the first initial missing person release. Seems way to quiet around here about her disappearance.
ilovematt
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Wow. Where could she be. We’re the marks that remained visable indicative of an accident where air bags would deploy or where she could have a concussion? I live in Alberta and the snow just won’t stop. I think the news coverage had been so dodgy.
Moriarty
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@Clouddown: I haven't seen any photos of the car or anything, so couldn't say about any possible damage. I didn't see any debris in the meridian between the north and southbound lanes though.
@ilovematt: I'm no traffic/accident expert by any means, so I couldn't tell you if the car stopped abruptly enough to set of the airbags. It definitely traveled for quite a ways before stopping.
For what it's worth: Someone drove into a ditch near my home this past weekend and went down a long bank before stopping. I was looking at his tracks...you could see where he was cranking on the steering wheel trying to turn the car back onto the road because the tracks aren't just two straight lines but waver and the snow fans out wider. I didn't see that at all from the tracks left by Kathleen's vehicle. Her tracks were just two pretty straight lines in the snow down the meridian for approximately 6 car lengths before a flattened area of snow at the bottom. It's hard to tell if the flattened area was caused by her car spinning around or is the result of people and tow trucks pulling her car out after.
Just what I observed...may not mean anything or contribute in any way.
It has been over two months now and nothing new beyond what was reported that night. It's very sad.
@ilovematt: I'm no traffic/accident expert by any means, so I couldn't tell you if the car stopped abruptly enough to set of the airbags. It definitely traveled for quite a ways before stopping.
For what it's worth: Someone drove into a ditch near my home this past weekend and went down a long bank before stopping. I was looking at his tracks...you could see where he was cranking on the steering wheel trying to turn the car back onto the road because the tracks aren't just two straight lines but waver and the snow fans out wider. I didn't see that at all from the tracks left by Kathleen's vehicle. Her tracks were just two pretty straight lines in the snow down the meridian for approximately 6 car lengths before a flattened area of snow at the bottom. It's hard to tell if the flattened area was caused by her car spinning around or is the result of people and tow trucks pulling her car out after.
Just what I observed...may not mean anything or contribute in any way.
It has been over two months now and nothing new beyond what was reported that night. It's very sad.