GUILTY UK - Maria Rawlings, 45, murdered, Romford, Essex, 3 May 2021 *arrest*

[Splash The Fly]

BBM

Well, quite. Correlation is not causation. Lots of excellent points in your post, @Splash The Fly. Thank you.

Ah, thanks. I just got that class, so it was a great coincidence. I've been following your posts and they are really good, you have good points too!

 

[Marg from Oz]

Duplicate

 

[Marg from Oz]

he seems to have a few profiles, all used around the same time as each other but with different locations. There’s one which has his location as Papua New Guinea

His profile says he is in Manus Papua New Guinea. Manus Island was used by the Australian Government to house illegal immigrants. Wonder what that is about.

 

[sleuthheywood7]

Interesting debate though this is, and we should be able to keep it a friendly debate. I used to agree with you on this, but now I think there are people who are just nasty, however people can have psychopath traits but not kill anyone, but problems in childhood can push someone with those sort of traits into becoming a risk to other people. That is my completely amateur view.

Yep I agree. There are huge numbers of people that have incredibly traumatic childhoods that live life as well-adjusted members of society. There are huge numbers of people that had traumatic/difficult childhoods that suffer with mental illness as a result and live healthy and fulfilling lives. There are people that have psychopathic tendencies/traits that go on to become incredibly 'successful' (depending on how you define success) lives (interesting book called the psychopath test by Jon Ronson which discusses this). Then there are individuals that may be born with anti-social traits and childhood events, as DFR says, push them into becoming a risk to other people. The vast majority of people with severe mental illness (such as schizophrenia) etc. are non-violent, it's also important to remember. Just posted this in the JJ thread but this is a good article that explains why the term psychopath has been heavily criticised and is no longer really used in psychiatric/psychological science.

Psychopaths: The Worst People Who Don’t Exist

 

[V347]

Also seems strange he created a new facebook profile on the 7th May. Who needs so many facebook profiles and why create more ways of yourself being identified after you have committed a murder? JMO

Could this be to say he wasn’t in the UK when this occurred? I know someone said that he had changed his location to London after the murder? So a case of “I wasn’t there, only moved to London and set up the account after”?


Edited to add: just my opinion

 

[proclee]

Could this be to say he wasn’t in the UK when this occurred? I know someone said that he had changed his location to London after the murder? So a case of “I wasn’t there, only moved to London and set up the account after”?

Edited to add: just my opinion

He has other profiles which state he moved here in 2020 (which seems unlikely with the pandemic) chances are he has actually lived here a while and when creating each account would put his location as his birth place/original town and then update after to say moved to London (and I think when you do that Facebook automatically does it as if you’ve moved there in the month that you update it)

 

[sleuthheywood7]

Of course Like I say I wasn't disagreeing and in most cases you are right. It's the old nature versus nurture argument isn't it, I just tend to fall on the side of nature these days. It's fairly safe to assume a troubled background of some sort when it comes to a perpetrator like this, but there is something that makes this guy kill that others with all manner of problems and perversions do not have. JMO though and I'm no expert.

I agree somewhat - the most prolific serial killer in US history - Gary Ridgeway - he had siblings brought up (presumably) in a very similar way and in the same household and they did not go on to murder over 50 women. I do think however that in many ways what are perhaps innate tendencies/traits are then brought to the fore by a dysfunctional childhood/traumatic event/abuse/dysfunctional relationships with parents etc. Most people that go on to commit crimes have had some sort of dysfunctional childhood - but only a tiny portion of people that have had a dysfunctional childhood go on to become murderers. So I think it's a combination. I also think its in society's best interests to provide support to people with anti-social personality disorder/illnesses such as schizophrenia with aggressive tendencies...children are born into this world through no choice of their own - and I think appropriate and well funded mental health services/social services are key to preventing violence etc. later on in life.

I remember watching a documentary ages ago about a man that was serving a life sentence in a jail in the U.S - he had dealt with absolutely horrific and totally unimaginable abuse as a child (locked in a room by his parents who told his other siblings not to interact with him because he was possessed by the devil, set on fire, sexually abused by his parents friends etc). He went on to murder someone in their home in a robbery in his teens - he was assessed in prison as knowing the difference between right and wrong but having no concept of why this difference was even important - as obviously he had never learnt why it was important. Also an interesting case as it shows that siblings can be treated very differently within families. Sorry for the (potentially slightly off topic) and very long post! All MOO.

 

[sleuthheywood7]

And what came first? If you have a disorder, you'll probably start to develop it in your teens, but there is one disorder that can show from a very young age: antisocial PD. If its that, then the childhood could be troublesome because of that (getting punished a lot, getting in trouble, etc.). I've JUST had a class about personality disorders (I swear, this thread just complimented my class so well) and I know that there could be comorbidity (one disorder can be paired with another disorder, it isn't uncommon, just like you said, it could be paired with a narcissism PD). You should have a read about Cluster B (most common types of disorders in prisons and can lead to criminal behavior).

A LOT of the PDs in that cluster say something about risky behavior and addiction (the weed references on his fb pages, as @JuicyLucy said in a post on this thread).

It doesn't always mean that his family or his situation was bad, a disorder (IF he has one) could have other causes (biology, genes, bad friends maybe). With some cases it isn't clear what came first: Cause or Consequence? What was first? If the forensic psychiatrists will talk to them, they'll figure that one out. Its an interesting topic (as my teacher said, lol).

If you wanna know the classifications of a disorder, just search for DSM-V (a very big online pfd) for the psychological criteria (search in the pdf: Cluster B). Its very interesting and if you're interested in psychology, you'll be interested in that. There is a chance that he has a PD, but there are so many other psychological disorders and all that, that you can't know for sure unless they test him (the test for PD in Belgium and the Netherlands is called DAPP-BQ, if you wanna know).

That all said, its all with ifs and buts as the guy can just be a regular guy that's just a bad person. It needs to meet certain criteria (see DSM-V) and be tested. There can be a hunch, but all that is because of talking to the person. You've probably seen a lot of questions in my reply and that is why. You do have a point, but like many things: its situational. We nearly don't have enough info to put a name on a possible disorder that he possibly has. Psychology (sadly) isn't black and white.

I do like it that you're interested in psychology, keep up the curiosity!

Great post Splash

 

[sleuthheywood7]

Could this be to say he wasn’t in the UK when this occurred? I know someone said that he had changed his location to London after the murder? So a case of “I wasn’t there, only moved to London and set up the account after”?


Edited to add: just my opinion

good point...

 

[DFR3217]

Yep I agree. There are huge numbers of people that have incredibly traumatic childhoods that live life as well-adjusted members of society. There are huge numbers of people that had traumatic/difficult childhoods that suffer with mental illness as a result and live healthy and fulfilling lives. There are people that have psychopathic tendencies/traits that go on to become incredibly 'successful' (depending on how you define success) lives (interesting book called the psychopath test by Jon Ronson which discusses this). Then there are individuals that may be born with anti-social traits and childhood events, as DFR says, push them into becoming a risk to other people. The vast majority of people with severe mental illness (such as schizophrenia) etc. are non-violent, it's also important to remember. Just posted this in the JJ thread but this is a good article that explains why the term psychopath has been heavily criticised and is no longer really used in psychiatric/psychological science.

Psychopaths: The Worst People Who Don’t Exist

That's a very interesting article, thanks for sharing it. such a complicated issue, I'm a total amateur in this area, but I find it interesting.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I guess all we can do here is speculate aloud, and maybe some people have more expert knowledge than others etc. I would speculate that there was a pathological need in that man to do what he did. Considering the 'price' or risks in committing such an act, it can surely only be pathological. I don't think bad people exist, just people with complex psychological make-up, from a combination of genetics, early childhood experience, and whether or not the person can overcome any ingrained psychological challenges before they become pathological.

SBM/BBM

I would add neurodevelopmental insult to that list, but otherwise I agree 100%.

 

[JuicyLucy]

He has other profiles which state he moved here in 2020 (which seems unlikely with the pandemic) chances are he has actually lived here a while and when creating each account would put his location as his birth place/original town and then update after to say moved to London (and I think when you do that Facebook automatically does it as if you’ve moved there in the month that you update it)

Just to follow on from this discussion, it's really unclear imo how long he's been here. I thought I'd found him on the electoral roll from 2018-2021 but once the FB profile was found I thought I must have the wrong person, even though the address was spot on for the bus journey he was making. Now that lots of FB profiles, all with conflicting, and in some cases nonsensical, information have popped up, I've been wondering if I was right all along.

But then I've just read that he needed an interpreter in court, even though all he was doing was confirming his name and address, so maybe he really hasn't been here long - or maybe that's a belt and braces thing, so as to minimise the likelihood of any grounds for appeal?

Barking man appears in court charged with mother-of-two's murder

Always more questions than answers!

 

[DFR3217]

Just to follow on from this discussion, it's really unclear imo how long he's been here. I thought I'd found him on the electoral roll from 2018-2021 but once the FB profile was found I thought I must have the wrong person, even though the address was spot on for the bus journey he was making. Now that lots of FB profiles, all with conflicting, and in some cases nonsensical, information have popped up, I've been wondering if I was right all along.

But then I've just read that he needed an interpreter in court, even though all he was doing was confirming his name and address, so maybe he really hasn't been here long - or maybe that's a belt and braces thing, so as to minimise the likelihood of any grounds for appeal?

Barking man appears in court charged with mother-of-two's murder

Always more questions than answers!

You could be right, but in 2018 he would have been quite young, but does seem a strange coincidence. Though Valentin Lazar does seem to be quite a common name. I think there's quite a large Romanian community in Barking, which might explain firstly why he moved there, and also why there could be someone else there with the same name.

 

[Dotta]

I think that all emigrants get an interpreter at court. Relowicz did. Its legal language so even if a person speaks the language it is better to have an interpreter, just in case. Maybe its even obligatory? You know - Human Rights etc

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

I think that all emigrants get an interpreter at court. Relowicz did. Its legal language so even if a person speaks the language it is better to have an interpreter, just in case. Maybe its even obligatory?

It's not obligatory but it is a right, as long as there is a genuine language barrier.

 

[Dotta]

It's not obligatory but it is a right, as long as there is a genuine language barrier.

I think it is advisable to provide an interpreter for a foreigner. He cannot later claim that he didn't understand sth or understood wrongly. I bet his school English isnt good enough for police / court matters.

 

[SocksKitty]

His profile says he is in Manus Papua New Guinea. Manus Island was used by the Australian Government to house illegal immigrants.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

I think it is advisable to provide an interpreter for a foreigner. He cannot later claim that he didn't understand sth or understood wrongly. I bet his school English isnt good enough for police / court matters.

Quite, but the procedure is that an interpreter must be requested. If the police/prosecutors see for themselves that language is an issue early on, that will be noted, and then the request will be made for him. If not, and he feels he needs one, he has to request it. That's according to the criminal court procedure in England & Wales.

 

[SocksKitty]

His profile says he is in Manus Papua New Guinea. Manus Island was used by the Australian Government to house illegal immigrants. Wonder what that is about.

I am just having a quick look on the Australian site Trove but haven't come up with anything yet.

 

[SocksKitty]

Also seems strange he created a new facebook profile on the 7th May. Who needs so many facebook profiles and why create more ways of yourself being identified after you have committed a murder? JMO

That reminds me of Luca Magnotta in the Netflix don't F with cats documentary and all the profiles he had.