GUILTY UK - PC David Carrick, 46, Met Officer, charged with rape, St. Albans, Hertfordshire, 4 Sept 2021

[Dotta]

Depends on whether she has any corroborating evidence & potential witnesses like hotel employees & guests in nearby rooms, CCTV, audio/video recordings made on her or his phone etc. It doesn't say when she came forward-it could have been last week or six months ago-so it is unlikely there is any CCTV evidence even if it was earlier in the year. These cases are very hard to prosecute at the best of times, when there was no physical examination of her & any evidence has almost certainly been lost to the mists of time the chances of a conviction are slim. Even if untrue his defence will just say she is an attention seeker looking to profit for compensation off the SE case & that either it never happened or it was consensual.

I just thought a woman was attacked in the street and raped.

 

[jimbob5]

I just thought a woman was attacked in the street and raped.

Apparently it was a Tinder hook-up, they were both drinking & they ended up in the hotel room he was staying at. So yes, this one will be very hard to prove.

 

[elliefant]

It might be a language barrier thing, Dotta, sorry (your English is excellent though by the way). If you mean you’d assumed/read that this case was a street attack, then it seems not. If you mean you thought only street attacks count as rape, then no. Absence of consent is rape whether it’s a stranger or not and regardless of where it happened.

eta proving rape in a court of law can be a different matter of course, if it comes down to who does the jury believe.

I too expect him to say it was consensual

 

[elliefant]

Hopefully Whitehall or Angleterre will chime in but I think for it to have got to this stage CPS have to say there is a reasonable chance of conviction?

Also, maybe she told friends or family about it at the time

 

[Dotta]

It might be a language barrier thing, Dotta, sorry (your English is excellent though by the way). If you mean you’d assumed/read that this case was a street attack, then it seems not. If you mean you thought only street attacks count as rape, then no. Absence of consent is rape whether it’s a stranger or not and regardless of where it happened.

eta proving it in a court of law can be a different matter of course.

I too expect him to say it was consensual

I agree with you absolutely.
If she didnt consent - it is a rape.
But a shrewd lawyer might be able to help him get scott free.

 

[MrsWatson]

No means no. End of.

Doesn't matter where it happened or the circumstances of their meeting.

No means no.

 

[jimbob5]

Hopefully Whitehall or Angleterre will chime in but I think for it to have got to this stage CPS have to say there is a reasonable chance of conviction?

Also, maybe she told friends or family about it at the time

Yes, although how much the current furore & the government wanting more rape/sex convictions has influenced them is anybodies guess.

There was a similar outcry in the mid 2000's to lessen the bar & secure more convictions & we have seen a lot of horrible cases hauled before the courts since where guys have been named & had their photo all over the media, the CPS have charged, it has got to a trial & then suddenly the defence & incredibly in some cases the prosecution counsel have bought to light that the defendants phone or computer has been sitting in a police storage room with hundreds of texts etc that made it clear it was a consensual relationship-either the police & CPS knew about it but felt under pressure to convict a certain number of people for sexual offences, or the lack of police resources for looking at electronic media has been exposed. Without these last minute disclosures these guys would have spent years in jail & had their lives totally ruined-even more than they actually were.

Can remember one case from a few years back where some morbidly obese female fantasist had for a long time been accusing guys of rapes & sex assaults & some had even been convicted. She was eventually jailed for her false claims, but by that point she, the police & the CPS combined had ruined the lives of many innocent men.

 

[Skigh]

Pictured: Met Police officer from same unit as Wayne Couzens charged with rape | Daily Mail Online


Indeed he showed the injured party his identification card. He said he worked for the Metropolitan Police firearms division and that he guarded a number of important people including the Prime Minister.

'He confirmed he lived in Stevenage and also owned a snake.

'He told her he wanted a ''submissive woman''.

 

[jimbob5]

It might be a language barrier thing, Dotta, sorry (your English is excellent though by the way). If you mean you’d assumed/read that this case was a street attack, then it seems not. If you mean you thought only street attacks count as rape, then no. Absence of consent is rape whether it’s a stranger or not and regardless of where it happened.

eta proving rape in a court of law can be a different matter of course, if it comes down to who does the jury believe.

I too expect him to say it was consensual

Apparently he has gone down the line of nothing sexual happened-so if any of his DNA turned up on a forensic examination of her clothing then he is screwed.

 

[Ched]

Apparently he has gone down the line of nothing sexual happened-so if any of his DNA turned up on a forensic examination of her clothing then he is screwed.

would it still be there from last year ?

 

[jimbob5]

would it still be there from last year ?

Possibly, they only need microscopic amounts these days to get a profile & if she just chucked it in a cupboard/stuck it in a bag & didn't wash it then yes-remember Monica Lewinsky & her dress?

 

[Stella123]

"It is alleged the couple then went to a hotel in St Albans that Mr Carrick had booked earlier where he raped her."

This could be significant in showing intent to take her to a hotel for the night. He had booked it earlier (presumably before the date).

Met Police officer from same unit as Wayne Couzens remanded in custody after rape charge

 

[Stella123]

Thanks to Skigh for pointing me to this thread

 

[Stella123]

Apparently he has gone down the line of nothing sexual happened-so if any of his DNA turned up on a forensic examination of her clothing then he is screwed.

Maybe there is other evidence if the alleged crime was actually committed - eg if she saw a Doctor afterwards.

 

[MrsWatson]

If the victim had reported the rape at the time, which, do we know if she did? If she did, a rape kit would have been administered. That would preserve any evidence.

 

[Sayrah]

If the victim had reported the rape at the time, which, do we know if she did? If she did, a rape kit would have been administered. That would preserve any evidence.

Also possible she visited a sexual assault referral centre (SARC) where evidence can be collected without a report to the police being made. What is a Sexual Assault Referral Centre (SARC)? | Rape Crisis England & Wales

I'm so wary of saying too much due to the case being sub judice, but it's interesting he has been remanded. Many accused of rape are let out on bail.

"At the bail hearing, the magistrates decide whether bail is appropriate after they have heard representations from both the prosecution and the defence. A defendant has a right to bail. The court may only refuse bail if it is satisfied that the defendant would fail to surrender to custody, commit an offence while on bail, or would interfere with witnesses or otherwise obstruct the course of justice. Bail can also be refused if the offence was committed while the defendant was already on bail for another serious offence, or for the defendant's own protection. There is an exception to the right to bail for some serious repeat offenders including those previously convicted of rape. Then the court can only grant bail in exceptional circumstances."

CPS Policy for Prosecuting Cases of Rape | The Crown Prosecution Service

 

[MrsWatson]

Also possible she visited a sexual assault referral centre (SARC) where evidence can be collected without a report to the police being made. What is a Sexual Assault Referral Centre (SARC)? | Rape Crisis England & Wales

I'm so wary of saying too much due to the case being sub judice, but it's interesting he has been remanded. Many accused of rape are let out on bail.

"At the bail hearing, the magistrates decide whether bail is appropriate after they have heard representations from both the prosecution and the defence. A defendant has a right to bail. The court may only refuse bail if it is satisfied that the defendant would fail to surrender to custody, commit an offence while on bail, or would interfere with witnesses or otherwise obstruct the course of justice. Bail can also be refused if the offence was committed while the defendant was already on bail for another serious offence, or for the defendant's own protection. There is an exception to the right to bail for some serious repeat offenders including those previously convicted of rape. Then the court can only grant bail in exceptional circumstances."

CPS Policy for Prosecuting Cases of Rape | The Crown Prosecution Service

Thanks for that helpful info, @Sayrah! I am still learning UK stuff (ex-pat) and I had no idea those centers even existed. A very good idea, I think.

I think he was remanded because people would have rioted in the streets if another serving officer turned out to be a possible criminal and was let out on bail. MOO

 

[Stella123]

Thanks for that helpful info, @Sayrah! I am still learning UK stuff (ex-pat) and I had no idea those centers even existed. A very good idea, I think.

I think he was remanded because people would have rioted in the streets if another serving officer turned out to be a possible criminal and was let out on bail. MOO

Agree that might have been part of the reason. But have also heard of many innocent Dads (in custody cases) who are accused and held on remand (although usually overnight and then bail).

 

[Stella123]

Occurred to me that it could be brave to come forwards if the alleged act took place - thinking he could go on to do the same with someone else. The WC case has been huge and women are often advised to report to prevent other women having the same experience.

 

[MrsWatson]

Agree that might have been part of the reason. But have also heard of many innocent Dads (in custody cases) who are accused and held on remand (although usually overnight and then bail).

What do custody issues have to do with a serving officer being charged with rape?

ETA
Not trying to be snarky, but apples and oranges, IMO.