NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #3

[CADwrest]

Has he even been a appointed a lawyer yet?

Yes, a public defender.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Is a random/coincidental crime so difficult to believe? Is it really more plausible that one of Faith's friends, in a fit of pique, spontaneously reached out to someone she had no connection with and arranged for him to kill or rape her?

Why is it either/or? You're assuming that people who don't believe this was random are automatically thinking that KR or someone else arranged for this to happen. I'd argue neither are correct. The perp could easily be someone Faith rejected at the club or someone she rejected on campus or someone she pissed off at some other time. The vast majority of people are killed by people they know, not random strangers twisting door knobs at 4:30 in the morning.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Robbery can actually turn into rape frighteningly fast, if the robber happens to encounter an attractive young woman in a vulnerable situation. This guy went into the apartment hoping to commit theft, but when he saw Faith, lust took over. When she woke up and started fighting back, he was enraged and bludgeoned her to death in retaliation.

This wasn't premeditated. This wasn't something planned out in advance. This was something reckless, impulsive, and stupid.

My opinion and all speculation, of course.

Rape isn't a crime of lust.

 

[fluffypaste]

Why is it either/or? You're assuming that people who don't believe this was random are automatically thinking that KR or someone else arranged for this to happen. I'd argue neither are correct. The perp could easily be someone Faith rejected at the club or someone she rejected on campus or someone she pissed off at some other time. The vast majority of people are killed by people they know, not random strangers twisting door knobs at 4:30 in the morning.

It's not impossible that this is a Lauren Giddings-Stephen McDaniel type situation where MESO was stalking Faith or Karena from a distance for a long time before striking. That is something that I've considered for this case, for a possible scenario of a premeditated killing.

I still think a random break-in is more likely at this point, especially since it seems like MESO didn't live close enough to Karena's apartment to enable stalking.

 

[Sikkim]

Why is it either/or? You're assuming that people who don't believe this was random are automatically thinking that KR or someone else arranged for this to happen. I'd argue neither are correct. The perp could easily be someone Faith rejected at the club or someone she rejected on campus or someone she pissed off at some other time. The vast majority of people are killed by people they know, not random strangers twisting door knobs at 4:30 in the morning.

Most doesn't mean at all. The reason it took so long to solve this case is because she was murdered by a stranger and not by someone she knew with an obvious motive. Stranger murders are harder to solve, which is why so many of these cold cases that are solved with genetic genealogy turn out to be committed by strangers

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Most doesn't mean at all. The reason it took so long to solve this case is because she was murdered by a stranger and not by someone she knew with an obvious motive. Stranger murders are harder to solve, which is why so many of these cold cases that are solved with genetic genealogy turn out to be committed by strangers

I didn't say that most meant all. As far as I know, this case isn't solved. An arrest doesn't mean solved.

 

[CADwrest]

Most doesn't mean at all. The reason it took so long to solve this case is because she was murdered by a stranger and not by someone she knew with an obvious motive. Stranger murders are harder to solve, which is why so many of these cold cases that are solved with genetic genealogy turn out to be committed by strangers

This. Why I eventually landed on stranger crime was because how wide a net LE was casting and still coming up empty. They stated that they thought the killer was one degree separated, a friend of a friend, but when they talked to thousands of people, many of whom never knew Faith, I figured that meant he wasn’t even that close to her.
I think it’s still possible there was a tenuous connection, but I have my doubts it had anything to do with Thrill. The club visit happened in such close proximity to her death that I’m sure LE dissected every moment of her time there. If she interacted with him there and she rejected him, I’m sure they would have followed up on that.
That said, I’d believe that they could have said hi to each other a couple of times at the bus stop or something like that.

 

[Skigirl]

Meanwhile, I did check recently just to confirm Olivares is still being held in jail, but I haven’t thoroughly checked for any new court dates… anyone else keeping up on that? Again, so bizarre, no word in over a month since last scheduled hearing was cancelled in a high-profile murder case....

We aren't allowed to link to social media here, but there has been some local chatter by members of LE that he was on their radar for petty crimes and they were familiar with him. MOO, the reason that the court date hasn't been resceduled is that his counsel is trying to work out a deal.

 

[Skigirl]

Why is it either/or? You're assuming that people who don't believe this was random are automatically thinking that KR or someone else arranged for this to happen. I'd argue neither are correct. The perp could easily be someone Faith rejected at the club or someone she rejected on campus or someone she pissed off at some other time. The vast majority of people are killed by people they know, not random strangers twisting door knobs at 4:30 in the morning.

It's possible that it was someone she rejected, but it wasn't one of the *hundreds* of people that they DNA tested before the current arrestee. His DNA matched to the DNA found on her body and on the murder weapon. The only thing we don't know is if he was acquainted with her somehow, or not. Websleuths isn't a court of law, so we do not have to presume him innocent until a jury finds him guilty. The DNA is enough for me. The only outstanding question in my mind is how he came upon her. This case is solved, in my opinion, with just questions about the particulars outstanding, and we may or may not ever know the answer to those. MOO.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

We aren't allowed to link to social media here, but there has been some local chatter by members of LE that he was on their radar for petty crimes and they were familiar with him. MOO, the reason that the court date hasn't been resceduled is that his counsel is trying to work out a deal.

I wonder if ICE and federal custody issues are also a factor in the delay. He could have been on their radar after the Wake Co. DUI arrest. Both Raleigh and Durham, however, have been termed as "sanctuary cities" recently for lack of coordination with ICE.

In case there's there's any doubts, though, he's still sitting in the Durham Co. Jail

OLIVARES, MIGUEL, ENRIQUE
Date Confined Date Charged Date Released Statute Description Bond Type/Amount Court Docket Days In Jail/Charge
9/16/2021 9/16/2021 [incarcerated] FIRST DEGREE MURDER NO BOND $0.00 21CR054671 56
Inmate Population Search | Durham County Sheriff

 

[Webthrush]

Since we’re still in this highly speculative phase (and since I lean toward believing there were 2 perps involved), I’m wondering if the court delay could be because police are on the verge of a 2nd arrest, and it will turn out that the 2nd individual is actually charged with 1st degree murder, while Olivares is charged instead with assault, attempted rape, and accessory to murder, but the first degree murder charge must be dropped… (I realize HIS DNA is on the murder weapon, but there could be alternative reasons for that).
Also, I believe the police were SOOOO focused on Takoy Jones early in the case they actually didn't do a thorough investigation of The Thrill until months later (if I remember correctly, virtually all the film recording from inside the club had already been wiped clean, or recorded over, by the time LE looked into it at all).

 

[Skigirl]

Since we’re still in this highly speculative phase (and since I lean toward believing there were 2 perps involved), I’m wondering if the court delay could be because police are on the verge of a 2nd arrest, and it will turn out that the 2nd individual is actually charged with 1st degree murder, while Olivares is charged instead with assault, attempted rape, and accessory to murder, but the first degree murder charge must be dropped… (I realize HIS DNA is on the murder weapon, but there could be alternative reasons for that).
Also, I believe the police were SOOOO focused on Takoy Jones early in the case they actually didn't do a thorough investigation of The Thrill until months later (if I remember correctly, virtually all the film recording from inside the club had already been wiped clean, or recorded over, by the time LE looked into it at all).

I've seen the security camera footage of her from inside the Thrill, so not sure what they wiped, it's described here in the police reports: DocumentCloud

 

[borndem]

Rape isn't a crime of lust.

It's a crime of violence, IMO.

 

[CADwrest]

Since we’re still in this highly speculative phase (and since I lean toward believing there were 2 perps involved), I’m wondering if the court delay could be because police are on the verge of a 2nd arrest, and it will turn out that the 2nd individual is actually charged with 1st degree murder, while Olivares is charged instead with assault, attempted rape, and accessory to murder, but the first degree murder charge must be dropped… (I realize HIS DNA is on the murder weapon, but there could be alternative reasons for that).
Also, I believe the police were SOOOO focused on Takoy Jones early in the case they actually didn't do a thorough investigation of The Thrill until months later (if I remember correctly, virtually all the film recording from inside the club had already been wiped clean, or recorded over, by the time LE looked into it at all).

Regarding the footage, several sections in the released documents talk about the detectives going over Thrill footage with various of the NCCU law guys. We’ve only seen a bit of it but there’s apparently lots more. (You’re right that they didn’t seem to look into Thrill until March 2013, but they still had leads to follow.)
The footage you’re thinking of that got erased was the tow yard footage, which would have possibly shown the girls returning to their car.

 

[Webthrush]

Regarding the footage, several sections in the released documents talk about the detectives going over Thrill footage with various of the NCCU law guys. We’ve only seen a bit of it but there’s apparently lots more. (You’re right that they didn’t seem to look into Thrill until March 2013, but they still had leads to follow.)
The footage you’re thinking of that got erased was the tow yard footage, which would have possibly shown the girls returning to their car.

"...but there’s apparently lots more" -- I don't know where you're getting that from (but would be happy to see a source); my understanding is that indeed they went to look at footage, incredibly, in MARCH 2013, 6 mos. after the murder, and had no available film from inside to view (just people's very shaky memories); all they ever got was film from the parking lot including the entryway, where they did catch the women leaving, but little else. But by all means point me to any discussion of film from inside the Thrill during the women's presence. And really the "leads" they had were incredibly few considering how many males may have encountered the women in the hours they were there.

 

[CADwrest]

"...but there’s apparently lots more" -- I don't know where you're getting that from (but would be happy to see a source); my understanding is that indeed they went to look at footage, incredibly, in MARCH 2013, 6 mos. after the murder, and had no available film from inside to view (just people's very shaky memories); all they ever got was film from the parking lot including the entryway, where they did catch the women leaving, but little else. But by all means point me to any discussion of film from inside the Thrill during the women's presence. And really the "leads" they had were incredibly few considering how many males may have encountered the women in the hours they were there.

Ok.
I don’t know if the footage is limited to the incoming/outgoing section or if they have more of the interior. Just FTR, what I said was we’ve only seen a little (the part where Faith and Karena leave), but LE has access to a lot more.
The section of the report just begins by saying “Recently, Lt. Smith and I have been reviewing the video footage from The Thrill” without being any more specific.
The “more” they have access to is described in detail in the report. It references people coming and going and people having conversations. It also at one point mentions a “better angle” which leads me to believe that there’s more than one camera in play here.
In the narrative, they start not knowing who most of the men are but quickly get them identified, isolating ones (David Bell, for instance) they believe to be of greater interest. Also, notably- the report specifically mentions that Chris White, an employee at Thrill, has been interviewed prior to this, so it may not actually be the case that this is the very first time they’re exploring the Thrill angle.
Again, remember- we have access to a tiny fraction of the stuff LE does, and the fact we’ve seen a single camera feed and read a single report they chose to release doesn’t mean that’s all there is.

 

[fluffypaste]

Since we’re still in this highly speculative phase (and since I lean toward believing there were 2 perps involved), I’m wondering if the court delay could be because police are on the verge of a 2nd arrest, and it will turn out that the 2nd individual is actually charged with 1st degree murder, while Olivares is charged instead with assault, attempted rape, and accessory to murder, but the first degree murder charge must be dropped… (I realize HIS DNA is on the murder weapon, but there could be alternative reasons for that).

Also, I believe the police were SOOOO focused on Takoy Jones early in the case they actually didn't do a thorough investigation of The Thrill until months later (if I remember correctly, virtually all the film recording from inside the club had already been wiped clean, or recorded over, by the time LE looked into it at all).

I really don't blame police for focusing so much on Takoy in the beginning. He was a good suspect, until he was cleared by DNA. If I had been in charge, I would have focused on Takoy as well. He had motive, he'd threatened Faith Hedgepeth prior to the murder, he was physically abusive towards Karena, and he'd broken into the apartment before. Oh, and those weird Facebook posts from before and after the murder.

All of those things would have caused me to believe that Takoy was probably the guy, and I would've focused on him just like the police did.

I absolutely do blame irresponsible true crime documentaries and podcasts for continuing to present Takoy as a suspect after he'd already been definitively cleared. And for irrationally insisting that Karena would suddenly conspire with a man who'd beaten and abused her to murder her own best friend, for no discernable reason.

 

[Webthrush]

I really don't blame police for focusing so much on Takoy in the beginning. He was a good suspect, until he was cleared by DNA. If I had been in charge, I would have focused on Takoy as well. He had motive, he'd threatened Faith Hedgepeth prior to the murder, he was physically abusive towards Karena, and he'd broken into the apartment before. Oh, and those weird Facebook posts from before and after the murder.

All of those things would have caused me to believe that Takoy was probably the guy, and I would've focused on him just like the police did.

I absolutely do blame irresponsible true crime documentaries and podcasts for continuing to present Takoy as a suspect after he'd already been definitively cleared. And for irrationally insisting that Karena would suddenly conspire with a man who'd beaten and abused her to murder her own best friend, for no discernable reason.

Totally agree... the focus on Jones early on made absolute sense, especially given a somewhat small police force with limited resources (to this day I wonder what his explanation was for the very incriminating statements he made prior to the crime). But with that said, other avenues that needed to be explored (as it turned out), got bypassed and memories and evidence fell by the wayside until too late... and I just think the Thrill (as well as Faith's workplace, campus life, hometown, etc.) all took a relative backseat in early weeks of the investigation. [Again, it's a bit unfortunate that we are spending so much time debating over things which by now LE has almost certainly established one way or the other, but just not made public. ]

 

[Skigirl]

"...but there’s apparently lots more" -- I don't know where you're getting that from (but would be happy to see a source); my understanding is that indeed they went to look at footage, incredibly, in MARCH 2013, 6 mos. after the murder, and had no available film from inside to view (just people's very shaky memories);

I linked to the source. The source is the police notes, reports, and warrants that were released to the public. There's a description of footage from inside the club, people she interacted with, etc. They never released that part to the public. That's why it is accurate to say that there is apparently lots more.

They rewatched the footage in 2013. It had been preserved, and presumably watched before that. It's all in the police docs that I linked to.

 

[Skigirl]

Totally agree... the focus on Jones early on made absolute sense, especially given a somewhat small police force with limited resources (to this day I wonder what his explanation was for the very incriminating statements he made prior to the crime). But with that said, other avenues that needed to be explored (as it turned out), got bypassed and memories and evidence fell by the wayside until too late... and I just think the Thrill (as well as Faith's workplace, campus life, hometown, etc.) all took a relative backseat in early weeks of the investigation. [Again, it's a bit unfortunate that we are spending so much time debating over things which by now LE has almost certainly established one way or the other, but just not made public. ]

This is just simply not accurate if you look through the police docs. Did they investigate Jones and think he was a likely suspect based on his own statements online and to her friends? Yes. Did they only investigate him in the early days, absolutely not.