Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022 - #2

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I believed Terri in the beginning. I was on her side. It was as more information and facts came to light that I began to change my mind.
The fact that she was a step mother wasn't an issue for me.
it's based on who she has shown herself to be...you can't cover up her history and literally all of it points to some kind of character issues . She shows a lack of empathy and a willingness to break the law and threaten people in a violent manner. I mean you don't put out a hit on someone..you don't steal someone's gun..like why would you do these things?

odds are she can be somewhat dangerous and she was the last person who ever saw Kyron or so she says..others say they saw her leave the school with him...I think to understand Terri, you have to understand what she was craving to get for herself. Sadly there is a motive, a person of questionable character and a child who was never seen again.

There is a full hour of time Terri cannot account for...was she drunk? she doesn't know where she was in this critical hour?

Terri showed meanness to Kyron. She punished him for made up reasons so he would be in his room and out of her way.
She wasn't someone I would call a good step mother...more of a resentful stepmother who is a liar and tells the father lies about his child.

If I was on a jury I would vote for a conviction based on all the circumstantial evidence, including the totally fabricated doctors appointment. mOO
 
I'm so glad for you and your children that you are an amazing stepmom. You are not Terri.
Nor is Terri Leticia; the evil fairytale that is Leticia has yet to manifest in Terri beyond lay-persons allegations. Certainly neither the justice system nor LE have yet to take legal steps to indicate otherwise.

It all reminds me of the cases where they take parents, or step parents, into custody on other chares when they are convinced the individual is invloved in a child's disppearance. Such as "custodial interference", Allegedly Terri has done this; aka Harmoney Montgomery (whose carer then went on to be charged with 2nd Degree Murder despite no remains) or drugs (Ron & Misty Cummings) ...

Apparently they also had a murder for hire that they could have used in this case ... yet did not. That speaks volumes to me.

Terri? Nada. Why is that.
 
I believed Terri in the beginning. I was on her side. It was as more information and facts came to light that I began to change my mind.
The fact that she was a step mother wasn't an issue for me.
Nor for me, I'm a step Mom also.

One thing that is rarely discussed - in March 2010, Terri's son J was sent to live with his Grandparents. Later he moved in with his Dad. No reason has ever been given, but I'm curious why that happened. Sending your kid to live elsewhere is a bid deal in my opinion. Was this around the same time Terri sent emails to Desiree, regarding Kyron coming to live with her?

 
it's based on who she has shown herself to be...you can't cover up her history and literally all of it points to some kind of character issues . She shows a lack of empathy and a willingness to break the law and threaten people in a violent manner. I mean you don't put out a hit on someone..you don't steal someone's gun..like why would you do these things?

The hits have never been proven or substantiated in any way. One of them relies on a prison snitch whose testimony came in 2011, almost a year after Kyron's disappearance. And she was acquitted of stealing the gun.

odds are she can be somewhat dangerous and she was the last person who ever saw Kyron or so she says..others say they saw her leave the school with him...

No, people (i.e. Desiree) claim others say they saw her leave the school with him. Said "others" have never publicly said so themselves. In fact, the sole witness we have who has gone on the record as having seen Terri leave, said he saw her leave without Kyron.

I think to understand Terri, you have to understand what she was craving to get for herself. Sadly there is a motive, a person of questionable character and a child who was never seen again.

There is a full hour of time Terri cannot account for...was she drunk? she doesn't know where she was in this critical hour?

That is not correct. Terri has always accounted for that time between 10:10 and 11:39. She sat with her daughter in the car for a bit, then drove on rural roads up to hwy 30 trying to get the baby to sleep. Then she went to the gym. Since there are no cameras along those rural roads she can't prove it, but it has never been disproven either. And the idea that she was drunk makes no sense, since people at the gym and then Kaine saw her soon after, and she wasn't drunk then.

It is also not a critical hour. Kyron went missing some time between 9 and 10, and said "critical hour" began at 10:10 according to police. Between 9 and 10 Terri drove through urban areas, parked for lengthy periods in public parking lots at major stores, and not a single witness saw Kyron in the truck or otherwise with her. There was no time and no location for her to have done anything to him.

Terri showed meanness to Kyron.

No such meanness has been demonstrated.

She punished him for made up reasons so he would be in his room and out of her way.

Not evidenced.

She wasn't someone I would call a good step mother...more of a resentful stepmother who is a liar and tells the father lies about his child.

And yet everyone - Desiree included - thought she did a fantastic job with Kyron. If Kyron actually had issues, it seems to me that Terri was the only one who took it seriously, with the bioparents scoffing at the idea:

"After Kyron Horman didn't come home on the school bus June 4, investigators focused on his stepmother Terri Horman. Kaine Horman and Desiree Young were surprised when Terri suddenly mentioned that the boy might have a form of autism. "Kyron never had any learning disabilities," Young said. "He was a talented and gifted child."

If I was on a jury I would vote for a conviction based on all the circumstantial evidence, including the totally fabricated doctors appointment. mOO

What fake appointment? Terri says Kyron had an appointment on June 11th, and given that the doctor would have a record of that, it makes no sense why she would lie about it. So the appointment on the 11th almost certainly was real. The appointment that didn't exist was the one Kyron's teacher believed Terri had taken Kyron to on June 4th, but there the question is - why did the teacher believe that? The common notion popularized by Desiree and others is that Terri told the teacher about it before taking Kyron out of the school, but that has never made sense. After all, if Terri's whole plan was to disappear Kyron from the school - as it would have to be, given her later denials of having taking Kyron from there - then telling a teacher exactly what she was going to do would defeat that whole purpose*. Then there is the witness statement - on the record - that the teacher's initial reaction when Kyron didn't appear at 10 wasn't "oh, his stepmother took him to a doctor's appointment", but rather "oh, he's probably in the bathroom". If Terri had told her she was taking Kyron, why would she say that? The only way this makes sense is if the teacher, realizing Kyron wasn't in the bathroom, searched for a reason for his absence and misremembered her earlier talks with Terri about an appointment.

* Yes, I realize this is because if Terri had disappeared Kyron from the school at 9, the school should have sounded the alarm immediately, and so Terri needed to make them believe Kyron was gone for a reason, as she couldn't plan for their sloppiness. In the end it doesn't make sense and we just end up with two completely different theories welded together.
 
it's based on who she has shown herself to be...you can't cover up her history and literally all of it points to some kind of character issues . She shows a lack of empathy and a willingness to break the law and threaten people in a violent manner. I mean you don't put out a hit on someone..you don't steal someone's gun..like why would you do these things?

odds are she can be somewhat dangerous and she was the last person who ever saw Kyron or so she says..others say they saw her leave the school with him...I think to understand Terri, you have to understand what she was craving to get for herself. Sadly there is a motive, a person of questionable character and a child who was never seen again.

There is a full hour of time Terri cannot account for...was she drunk? she doesn't know where she was in this critical hour?

Terri showed meanness to Kyron. She punished him for made up reasons so he would be in his room and out of her way.
She wasn't someone I would call a good step mother...more of a resentful stepmother who is a liar and tells the father lies about his child.

If I was on a jury I would vote for a conviction based on all the circumstantial evidence, including the totally fabricated doctors appointment. mOO
This is a great comment. My #1 favorite for the day!

May I add - holding a knife to someone's face?
Snipped quote: [December 9, 2016] “She was trying to put a knife – a kitchen knife to my face and then she was telling me that if I talked to law enforcement that something is going to happen to me or my family,” explained Cristobal.
...
Her domestic partner said he just recently learned about the Kyron Horman case. Cristobal said Moulton explained she was the victim of corrupt police in Oregon.
Cristobal said he has become suspicious of Moulton because of her behavior.
“She has two phones. One that she calls a burner phone and one that she normally uses for her personal stuff,” said Cristobal.
Cristobal said he met Moulton while working as an adult caregiver in the Sacramento area. The two lived together until recently.
The temporary restraining order requires Moulton not to “harass, attack, strike, threaten, assault,” her domestic partner. A judge will consider other possible conditions during next week’s hearing in Sacramento County.


Snipped quote: [Feb 25, 2017] The former boyfriend of Terri Horman told KOIN 6 News he was granted a 2-year restraining order against her on Friday.
Horman, who is now known as Terri Moulton, did not appear in the California court. But her attorney, Sara Anderson, was there.
Joseph Cristobal originally filed the domestic violence charge on November 28, 2016.
 
Snipped Quote: Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.
Finster said that when Kyron didn't show up at the bus the afternoon of June 4, Horman talked to the teacher who said she thought that Horman had taken Kyron to the doctor that day. Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said.

Snipped Quote: [Pg 59] The police also wanted to clear up the confusion about when attendance was taken. At 10 a.m. Kyron was marked absent by his teacher, Miss Porter. The school office was told it was an excused absence. That’s because Terri had sent the teacher an email days before saying she was taking him to a doctor’s appointment. That’s why his backpack and jacket were left in the classroom. He wouldn’t be gone all day. Later, Terri said it was all a mistake. It was the following Friday Kyron had a doctor’s appointment.
"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris
[Pg 67] “I want you to tell Kaine… and the police… that Kyron has a doctor’s appointment next week.” [June 11, 2010]

[Pg 68] “Kyron has a doctor’s appointment coming up. If the teacher hadn’t mixed up the dates, maybe someone would have realized Kyron was not at school.” Terri was creating a scenario whereby she was absolved of anything to do with his school day.

"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris
 
Harmoney Montgomery (whose carer then went on to be charged with 2nd Degree Murder despite no remains

In Harmony's case there was forensic/blood evidence of murder, though. There were also witnesses to prior severe violence against Harmony. It is very clear what happened to her, IMO.
How sad it is that the evidence in Kyron's case is lacking.
 
In Harmony's case there was forensic/blood evidence of murder, though. There were also witnesses to prior severe violence against Harmony. It is very clear what happened to her, IMO.
How sad it is that the evidence in Kyron's case is lacking.
I'd say the way to solve this one is to look for prior acts. Much like with the murder of Jacob Wetterling, I think it's clear this is not the first time this abductor has struck. In that case you had a cluster of assaults and attempted abductions a few years before in Paynesville, where the killer lived. Then an abduction and assault in early 1989 in Cold Spring, some 15-20 minutes away, then Jacob abducted later in 1989 from St Joseph, 15 minutes further away, in the same direction. Jacob was taken back to Paynesville where he was killed and buried. So for our Suspect Zero, I'm thinking he probably has some assaults or abductions (successful or not) close to home, and expanding outwards, getting more brazen the further away from the place where he lives and is known. He owns a vehicle so he really could be anywhere in the Pacific Northwest. Now I've checked, and there are only a handful of unsolved abductions I could find that fit, but it could be worth it to look into assaults.
 
I'd say the way to solve this one is to look for prior acts. Much like with the murder of Jacob Wetterling, I think it's clear this is not the first time this abductor has struck

Oh, I don't think Kyron was abducted by a stranger. I trust his biological parents' opinions about what they believe happened.
But I also understand the need to keep an open mind at this point.
 
Oh, I don't think Kyron was abducted by a stranger. I trust his biological parents' opinions about what they believe happened.
But I also understand the need to keep an open mind at this point.

Understandable. As for me, I have experienced far too many relatives of victims whose conviction was as strong as it was wrong.
 
Sweet, sweet Kyron. In my opinion, he was subjected to manipulation, bullying, and emotional abuse during the years he lived with Terri. It’s so sad. Justice for Kyron!

[Pg 109] Kyron’s greatest fear was being lost and not being able to find his way home. In the months leading up to his disappearance, Desiree thought Terri was messing with his head and might be enlisting the help of her son [J]. According to Desiree, [J] took Kyron for a walk in the woods on Kaine’s five-acre property, then pretended they were lost, and he didn’t know how to get home. “Kyron was so scared,” Desiree said later. He had nightmares for weeks. On another day, [J] and Kyron were playing at the old shed. Kyron frequently went in it to feed Bootsy, the cat. [J] got on the roof, and it collapsed around Kyron. Desiree felt Terri was trying to scare and intimidate Kyron.
"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris
[Pg 109] At least once Terri hid Kyron’s favorite books and toys, including his copy of Love You Forever, a book sentimentally important to Kyron and his mother.
"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris

[Pg 110] She threw herself into activities at Skyline, zealously policing Kyron and his schooling. Desiree was told that Miss Porter used a system of color-coded cards to rate students daily on their behavior. Green was good, yellow signaled moments of inattention, blue indicated trouble, and a red card was serious. “Everyday she wanted it,” Kaine said later. “That, to me, is extremely excessive. The child is in second grade.” If Kyron received anything but a green card, Terri wanted Kaine to discipline him by grounding him, banishing him to his room for the evening, eliminating playtime, or restricting his movie watching. “There was no room for error,” Kaine told the Oregonian.
...
But the code of conduct and the colored cards may have only existed in Terri’s playbook. Mothers of other children in Kyron’s class said it didn’t exist.

"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris

[Pg 112] One time, at a Mother’s Day brunch in Medford that Kathy [Desiree's stepmother] graciously invited Terri to, Terri asked Kyron if he needed “Mom” to go with him to the bathroom. She took his hand and led him down the hall. Desiree’s family was horrified and stared wide-eyed at each other.
"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris

[Pg 112] Terri, who had impeccable timing, called Desiree as she was dressing for the wedding. Terri said Kyron couldn’t stop crying. Desiree could hear him. Out of the blue, Terri asked if Desiree would take Kyron permanently. Now, as in today. “Of course!” Desiree said. She talked to Kyron and said she would be up to get him. She and Tony made plans to drive up immediately. They were elated. But when Kaine, who was out of town on business, learned of Terri’s offer, he said a firm no.
Later, Tony asked Desiree, “What would you do if I tried to give your kids away while you were out of town?”
“It would be the last thing you ever did on this earth,” she said.

"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris

[Pg 177] Kyron fretted most of the weekend. He cried; he didn’t want to go back to Portland. He had trouble sleeping and wet his bed.
Kyron’s bed-wetting was not uncommon. Desiree knew it happened at Kaine’s house too. Terri complained to Kaine about it. Kyron told Desiree it was because he had bad dreams.

Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris
 
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Snipped Quote: Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.
Finster said that when Kyron didn't show up at the bus the afternoon of June 4, Horman talked to the teacher who said she thought that Horman had taken Kyron to the doctor that day. Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said.

Snipped Quote: [Pg 59] The police also wanted to clear up the confusion about when attendance was taken. At 10 a.m. Kyron was marked absent by his teacher, Miss Porter. The school office was told it was an excused absence. That’s because Terri had sent the teacher an email days before saying she was taking him to a doctor’s appointment. That’s why his backpack and jacket were left in the classroom. He wouldn’t be gone all day. Later, Terri said it was all a mistake. It was the following Friday Kyron had a doctor’s appointment.
"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris
[Pg 67] “I want you to tell Kaine… and the police… that Kyron has a doctor’s appointment next week.” [June 11, 2010]

[Pg 68] “Kyron has a doctor’s appointment coming up. If the teacher hadn’t mixed up the dates, maybe someone would have realized Kyron was not at school.” Terri was creating a scenario whereby she was absolved of anything to do with his school day.

"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris
oh but there was never an appointment on the books for Kyron on the following week, was there? mOO
 
oh but there was never an appointment on the books for Kyron on the following week, was there? mOO

The police has never denied it, and Desiree has been a bit vague, but I would argue it's highly unlikely there wasn't. Why make up something you know will be disproven within seconds?
 
The adorable little boy talking about teddy bears, candy, and hope will not be Terri’s savior in a criminal court of law.

In June 2010, he was 8 years old. Not only was he confused and traumatized by Kyron’s absence, but his grandmother put words in his mouth. What his grandmother says he said cannot be used at trial for the truth of the matter. If he takes the stand and “remembers” what his grandmother said he said as his own words, the prosecutor will impeach him. They have all his media interviews, plus their interviews.

I’m pretty sure law enforcement would have interviewed the adult who supervised the group Kyron was supposed to be in; they would have interviewed the three other children in the group, plus the teacher. Had Tanner’s stories about 1) passing Kyron in the hallway, and 2) not seeing Kyron as the group of five (reduced to four) returned to the classroom been verifiable we would not be where we are today.

Tanner does not give a time for passing Kyron in the hallway. There is no doubt Kyron was inside the school that morning.

Law enforcement states that Terri is the last known person to see Kyron.

In my opinion.

Unofficial transcript/snipped portions:
[2:02] Reporter:
Wendy says Tanner has told her he saw Kyron’s stepmom, Terri, leaving the school building. Kyron was not with his stepmom when she left school.
[0:30] Tanner: I went down the stairs and that was the last time I saw him; I never did see him after that.
[0:51] Tanner: And she was like Oh, no. Where is Kyron? There is only five. And Ms Porter is like it’s alright, calm down, calm down. He’s probably in the bathroom, or getting a drink of water. She’s like alright. I’m gonna leave and she left.
[1:14] Tanner: It’s hard because people are just writing notes and giving him candy and gummy bears and teddy bears and everything. Trying to hope and hope that he’s coming back. And sometimes we always sit on the carpet and hold hands and pray that he will come back.

Snipped quote: [June 9, 2010] Tanner [redacted], Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.
"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.' I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."
As the search for Kyron enters its sixth day, Tanner said his friend's disappearance is all he can think about.
"I'm feeling really sad. For the last five days, I haven't gotten much sleep," he said. "I'm hoping that my best friend will come back."
Classes at Skyline School continued as scheduled Tuesday. Tanner said he and fellow students have spent time in class writing letters to Kyron and piling them on his desk.
"If we ever do find him, it's going to be hard for him to go on the bus with all of his stuff," Tanner said. "He has a pile of stuff with a great, big teddy bear."

Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back' - Portland News Story - KPTV Portland

Snipped quote: [June 5, 2010] Parent-led groups of about four students walked among the classrooms, said Gina Zimmerman, president of the Skyline PTA.
"You were supposed to stay with your group," Zimmerman said. "I don't know what group he was in."
However, the sheriff's office news release says school staff did not see Kyron after 8:45 a.m. and that he did not make it to his classroom.

Kyron Horman disappearance: Skyline school parents and students will be interviewed Sunday | OregonLive.com

[Pg 40] Terri, who said she’d seen Kyron enter his classroom, told a different version too: she said that when she left Kyron, he’d been with a “chaperone” leading the children around to see the various science projects. The school said there were no adults acting as chaperones.
Later, a parent involved with the PTA explained that there were parent-led groups of students walking between the classrooms to see the science exhibits. She led the group made up of Kyron’s classmates. He was not in it.

"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris
Snipped quote: [July 16, 2010] Authorities are asking media to give them copies of any video interviews with students, parents or others who said they saw Kyron Horman after 8:45 a.m. on June 4.
Horman disappeared that day from Skyline School in rural northwest Multnomah County.
In addition to the footage, the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office is asking for contact information for those who were interviewed. …
The sheriff's office already has conducted interviews twice -- and in some cases four times -- with parents, students, school officials and others since Kyron disappeared almost six weeks ago. But some of those interviewed have given different stories to TV crews, he said, and the sheriff's office wants to follow up on any information that may have been missed.

Police ask media for footage of interviews with potential witnesses in Kyron Horman case

[June 21, 2010] Capt. Jason Gates of the Multnomah County sheriff's department issued the following statement Friday on the decision to request information on Kyron's stepmother:
"Detectives work in this case is exhaustive and they, along with Kyron's family, are asking for the community's assistance regarding anyone who saw not only Kyron, but also who may have seen Terri Horman and/or the truck she was driving that morning. Terri is the last person known to have seen him before he disappeared."
Kyron's mom: 'So sorry that I was not there to protect you' - CNN.com
 
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The adorable little boy talking about teddy bears, candy, and hope will not be Terri’s savior in a criminal court of law.

I'd say Terri not being charged anytime soon is what's likely to be her savior. Three successive DAs have neglected to charge her in 14 years, no Grand Jury has indicted her despite being first empaneled only two months after the abduction. No new incriminating information has emerged, no new leads and no aspiring DA has promised to charge her. So I don't think young TP will be call upon to save her.

In June 2010, he was 8 years old. Not only was he confused and traumatized by Kyron’s absence, but his grandmother put words in his mouth. What his grandmother says he said cannot be used at trial for the truth of the matter. If he takes the stand and “remembers” what his grandmother said he said as his own words, the prosecutor will impeach him. They have all his media interviews, plus their interviews.

We have no reason to believe it was his grandmother who made him say what he said. For one, why would she? For the other, why this particular story? Why make him say the bit about the electrical exhibit?

I’m pretty sure law enforcement would have interviewed the adult who supervised the group Kyron was supposed to be in; they would have interviewed the three other children in the group, plus the teacher. Had Tanner’s stories about 1) passing Kyron in the hallway, and 2) not seeing Kyron as the group of five (reduced to four) returned to the classroom been verifiable we would not be where we are today.

Where we are today is without an official suspect, without an official PoI, without a body and without any physical evidence. Perhaps the police disregarded TP's story to their own detriment?

Tanner does not give a time for passing Kyron in the hallway. There is no doubt Kyron was inside the school that morning.

And yet, it makes no sense for the story to take place any time with Terri still in the building. She kept Kyron with her at all points (we have no testimony from anyone seeing Terri alone in the school, only Kyron) except their ascent via different stairways.

[Pg 40] Terri, who said she’d seen Kyron enter his classroom, told a different version too: she said that when she left Kyron, he’d been with a “chaperone” leading the children around to see the various science projects. The school said there were no adults acting as chaperones.
Later, a parent involved with the PTA explained that there were parent-led groups of students walking between the classrooms to see the science exhibits. She led the group made up of Kyron’s classmates. He was not in it.

"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris

I like this bit, as it directly contradicts the facts as we know them. Terri's leaked email shows that she didn't claim she had seen Kyron with a chaperone, she said she had heard that from someone else:

“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits - how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...”

But even in this excerpt Terri is doubted only to have been proven right - there were chaperones leading groups of children. Why would the school deny it?
 

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