MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #4

[themonk]

Whatever the outcome, if this trial doesn't make someone think twice about the 'system' and power and the people that wield that power, what will?

 

[jepop]

Yes! ^… and on the latter candidate, possibly a plow scarping the arm across an asphalt, concrete, or gravel / stone surface? When he was perhaps already prone?

I mean all the gouges / furrows are parallel and of varying depth and length! Seems there can’t be a single surface or structure on or under a Lexus of that type to cause that? If I was working with the defense, I’d try to have Toyota model those cuts / furrows with all know structures and surfaces of that vehicle! (Oh wait, NVM….. that is already part of the prosecution’s case, right?/sarc.)

I earlier asked if known whether JOK was clad in either a coat or sleeved shirt, and seems that is not known. And the follow to that was, if he was clad with some clothing before / during the incident how was it affected? Torn, sliced, other? Were those clothing items (if used) ever recovered or part of evidence? And if not investigated that is appalling IMO. As we have already indicated, no apparent testing of JOK wounds for canine DNA, nor do I expect oil, dirt, grime? How about gravel? MOO

I'm with you. Whether or not (and seems likely it is not?) autopsy or medical examination preserved any proper evidence from JO's wounds, I'm open to all of those as possibilities (plow scraping, dragging of arm and possibly facial cuts) at present. Given that at the very least, wounds were not swabbed/sampled for animal dna testing, waiting to hear what happenned to JO's wounds contamimation wise between JO being at the hospital and then transported to ME's office. Because atm not swabbing wounds for dna just does not compute. Were they swabbed or sample taken at all? I need an explanation. Moo

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I thought for sure BH was a prime suspect in this case but he really “won me over” with his testimony.

I agree his texts with KR are mostly a nothing burger - both of them seemed pretty ambivalent about it. When he was telling the story about the one time she came over his house, she stayed for not even one drink then left and nothing happened - that rang very true to me. I’ve had similar things happen where you do too much of the flirting via text beforehand then when you finally meet up there’s no flirting left to do and it’s just awkward. Lol.

So I don’t think it goes to a motive for either of them. It is most definitely terrible for KR’s character though - some people really hate cheaters with a vitriol that shocks me, and if anyone on the jury feels that way, it’s tough to come back from.

He just really didn’t strike me as a killer, idk. He seemed like a not super bright, sensitive guy.

That said - I think it’s totally possible he participated in some kind of cover up, possibly out of loyalty to BA. He obviously holds the thin blue line (going to NY for the funeral of a cop he didn’t even know, mentioned to KR going to another cop’s funeral). Maybe he felt it was a lesser evil to help cover up the crime than to see a good cop (BA) taken off the street.

However, I’m still not convinced this wasn’t an accident. JO would be far from the first man to die from misadventure due to a combination of drinking and poor weather. A theory I’ve been kicking around is this:

-KR drops JO off and he slips, hits his head, passes out, something happens. Possibly gets hit by a plow or other vehicle afterward to cause some of his other injuries.
-The next morning when the McAlberts are gathered at Fairview, JM relates the “I hit him” story.
-The attendees decide they need to get justice for JO and that they won’t let KR get away with it. The “cover up” begins - but from their perspective they’re just helping LE uncover the truth and thinking they’re making an ironclad case against KR.
-The last point could also be true even if KR did hit JO, that they tampered with the scene and evidence to ensure her arrest and conviction.

All moo!

I'd like to see photos of the ground where JO's head was to see if there were rocks which could have made the 2 to 3 inch straight laceration mid occiput IIRC, with a smaller thinner semi circular laceration perpendicular to the larger laceration and on the upper right occiput. That bugs me.

 

[Wishbone]

I can see the Histories of the future '...and so arose an entirely new industry, eventually spawning a plethora of experts seeking to comprehend these ununusual phenomena'

And so the battle of the experts begins and one can bet there will be opposing conclusions. Select the one you choose to believe and base guilt or innocence on it. Not me. What has come to light so far during this trial, and when looking at the initial investigation, is enough in my opinion to cause reasonable doubt. This investigation was not thoroughly and competently conducted. Add to that, if KR is guilty then why all the lying and interfering with evidence? The botched investigation aside, the simple answer is that KR is not guilty and there is a cover up happening. At least that would be my take on it. And as this trial progresses that point is being driven home piece by piece. As for the truth of what happened ever coming to light, I hope that it will.Those involved make up a big circle and just one break in it could bring it down. JMOO

 

[turaj]

Higgins said in the texts he is not married and has no kids. Also, KR got his number from a friend at the Hillside bar, so I seriously doubt their texts were on his work phone. JMHO.

he also referenced having been married and divorced years before and she had a child before they married. That did not seem to go well for him.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Anyone have any thoughts as to why Higgins told the Federal grand jury he caught a glimpse of a tall, dark haired man entering the house after he arrived? He had to admit to it yesterday and it clearly made him uncomfortable.

It wasn't Colin because Colin had arrived long before Higgins did.

Tristan Morris, Caitlyn Albert's boyfriend, didn't arrive until long after Higgins left to log on to work at the CPD. (As one does after driving four hours from NY and then drinking Jameson and gingers all night.)

Who else could it have been?

 

[turaj]

Anyone have any thoughts as to why Higgins told the Federal grand jury he caught a glimpse of a tall, dark haired man entering the house after he arrived? He had to admit to it yesterday and it clearly made him uncomfortable.

It wasn't Colin because Colin had arrived long before Higgins did.

Tristan Morris, Caitlyn Albert's boyfriend, didn't arrive until long after Higgins left to log on to work at the CPD. (As one does after driving four hours from NY and then drinking Jameson and gingers all night.)

Who else could it have been?

that is a great question...who was that? I am still trying to get beyond not one person in that home seeing anything going on outside and a man is dead. In fact they still hear nothing in morning as people are screaming as they find the body. I hope this case falls into place as well as the Murdaugh case did but I don't think it is KR.

 

[themonk]

that is a great question...who was that? I am still trying to get beyond not one person in that home seeing anything going on outside and a man is dead. In fact they still hear nothing in morning as people are screaming as they find the body. I hope this case falls into place as well as the Murdaugh case did but I don't think it is KR.

Maybe someone said "Anyone asks, you didn't see anything. Got it?"

 

[Wishbone]

Anyone have any thoughts as to why Higgins told the Federal grand jury he caught a glimpse of a tall, dark haired man entering the house after he arrived? He had to admit to it yesterday and it clearly made him uncomfortable.

It wasn't Colin because Colin had arrived long before Higgins did.

Tristan Morris, Caitlyn Albert's boyfriend, didn't arrive until long after Higgins left to log on to work at the CPD. (As one does after driving four hours from NY and then drinking Jameson and gingers all night.)

Who else could it have been?

All I can think of is that BH was covering himself and trying not to out and out lie to the federal grand jury. He appears to be very careful in the manner he answers questions and does his best to evade getting caught in a blatant lie.He can say that all he noticed was the man was tall and had dark hair and he didn't get a good look at his face because the instance was very brief. That way, if it's ever proved a certain individual was in the house that night he can just say he didn't get a good look. I am leaning toward the the tall dark haired man being JO.

 

[turaj]

Maybe someone said "Anyone asks, you didn't see anything. Got it?"

what is the working theory of people here. JO came into the home and a fight took place downstairs...he got roughed up pretty bad...and they took him outside? Or did he just leave and then stumble down by the road and they thought he had left. I guess I just wonder what the most logical theory is. I believe he was beaten up and dog got at him...who saw what inside don't know. Hard to say with so much alcohol being consumed all night.

 

[turaj]

All I can think of is that BH was covering himself and trying not to out and out lie to the federal grand jury. He appears to be very careful in the manner he answers questions and does his best to evade getting caught in a blatant lie.He can say that all he noticed was the man was tall and had dark hair and he didn't get a good look at his face because the instance was very brief. That way, if it's ever proved a certain individual was in the house that night he can just say he didn't get a good look. I am leaning toward the the tall dark haired man being JO.

timing wise it could have been JO. KR drives him over there...they argue in car and she does not want to go in so he gets out of the car...she leaves...BH leaves the house at same time JO is arriving?

 

[HarmonyE.]

what is the working theory of people here. JO came into the home and a fight took place downstairs...he got roughed up pretty bad...and they took him outside? Or did Hard to say with so much alcohol being consumed all night.

Just a quick point on the alcohol because I know people raise it a lot.

This wasn't an actual celebration of anything. BA Jr. was turning 23. Not a big deal for anyone. This is how they drink every weekend, and for some/most of them, probably every night. It's how they live as functional alcoholics. So while the amount of drinking may seem extreme to those who don't live this sort of life, it wasn't anything new for them and probably had a minimal impact on their overall behavior. They function on that amount of alcohol all the time.

 

[turaj]

Just a quick point on the alcohol because I know people raise it a lot.

This wasn't an actual celebration of anything. BA Jr. was turning 23. Not a big deal for anyone. This is how they drink every weekend, and for some/most of them, probably every night. It's how they live as functional alcoholics. So while the amount of drinking may seem extreme to those who don't live this sort of life, it wasn't anything new for them and probably had a minimal impact on their overall behavior. They function on that amount of alcohol all the time.

I do agree...way of life for them. The whole thing about going to Waterfall to celebrate the 23rd birthday when the kid was never even going to come was silly...he is at home drinking with friends. These people don't care but boy sure presents them in such a poor light....underage drinking seemed routine, drinking and driving routine and as mentioned just a way of life. I was particularly impressed with KR carrying the glass right with her under coat during a blizzard. I think her family are decent people that live a much different life than the Canton cartel and it has no doubt been a struggle to see the crowd their daughter was involved with. As a parent those texts must have been tough to listen to. It was also mentioned that she has spoken with her family about the parent role she took on and I imagine they cautioned her to get out if she had doubts about the whole relationship. I also remember comments by someone that JO was not happy that the rest of the family did not help more. Lots of stress there. Those poor children.

 

[Wishbone]

This little tidbit was buried way down this article because so much of it was regurgitating the texts between KR and BH

Jackson then pressed Higgins on previous testimony he made concerning the night of O’Keefe’s death, focusing in on testimony Higgins gave about a male who showed up at the house. Higgins maintained that he wasn’t sure if the male he saw – who he described as tall and dark haired – actually entered the house. The defense pushed this point, trying to get Higgins to give a yes or no answer about whether the man came inside,apparently trying to call his previous testimony into question. The judge eventually shut the line of questioning down.

ATF agent Brian Higgins testifies in Karen Read trial

ATF agent Brian Higgins testified in the Karen Read trial Friday, spending hours on the stand between the prosecution and defense questioning.

www.nbcboston.com

 

[nodamselindistress]

I have been searching and searching for the time that Higgins clocked in at Canton PD that morning and all I can find for a stated time is from TB News which I am sure is not an approved source. IF it was 1:30 am, and IF it only takes 10 mins at the most to drive from 34 Fairview to Canton PD, then he left 34 Fairview after 1:00 am in spite of his 12:30-1:00 am "guess" about his departure time. That means he was there when JO arrived and he was there for whatever went down. I feel like this is key information and it frustrates me that I can't find an approved source for it.

 

[Wishbone]

I have been searching and searching for the time that Higgins clocked in at Canton PD that morning and all I can find for a stated time is from TB News which I am sure is not an approved source. IF it was 1:30 am, and IF it only takes 10 mins at the most to drive from 34 Fairview to Canton PD, then he left 34 Fairview after 1:00 am in spite of his 12:30-1:00 am "guess" about his departure time. That means he was there when JO arrived and he was there for whatever went down. I feel like this is key information and it frustrates me that I can't find an approved source for it.

Brian Higgins said when he left 34 Fairview Road between 12:30 and 1 a.m. on Jan. 29, 2022, snow was falling harder than before, but not enough to need his plow. He said he began driving his Jeep but heard the plow grinding on the ground, so he stopped and lifted the plow before driving away.

Higgins said he drove back to Canton Police Department before going home so he could move his government issued and surveillance vehicles, which were parked there, to allow the parking lot to be plowed. He said he had left the key to the surveillance vehicle on his desk within the police station, because he hadn’t expected to be back in Massachusetts until the following day, but had come home early because of the storm.

Higgins used his key card to access the parking lot as well as the police station, moved the vehicles into the center of the parking lot, and drove home to West Roxbury, arriving between 1:30 and 2 a.m.

Karen Read trial: Read kissed Brian Higgins 2 weeks before O’Keefe’s death

In bombshell testimony Friday, special agent Brian Higgins spoke about his romantic relationship with Karen Read in the weeks before her boyfriend's death.

www.masslive.com

 

[HarmonyE.]

I have been searching and searching for the time that Higgins clocked in at Canton PD that morning and all I can find for a stated time is from TB News which I am sure is not an approved source. IF it was 1:30 am, and IF it only takes 10 mins at the most to drive from 34 Fairview to Canton PD, then he left 34 Fairview after 1:00 am in spite of his 12:30-1:00 am "guess" about his departure time. That means he was there when JO arrived and he was there for whatever went down. I feel like this is key information and it frustrates me that I can't find an approved source for it.

If Turtleboy said it was 1:30 I'd take that to the bank. Not because of his journalism skills but because his primary source was Karen Read who got it from her attorneys who probably got it from the FBI. Everything so far has checked out at trial. In addition, I think Jackson may have said it yesterday?

 

[nodamselindistress]

Brian Higgins said when he left 34 Fairview Road between 12:30 and 1 a.m. on Jan. 29, 2022, snow was falling harder than before, but not enough to need his plow. He said he began driving his Jeep but heard the plow grinding on the ground, so he stopped and lifted the plow before driving away.

Higgins said he drove back to Canton Police Department before going home so he could move his government issued and surveillance vehicles, which were parked there, to allow the parking lot to be plowed. He said he had left the key to the surveillance vehicle on his desk within the police station, because he hadn’t expected to be back in Massachusetts until the following day, but had come home early because of the storm.

Higgins used his key card to access the parking lot as well as the police station, moved the vehicles into the center of the parking lot, and drove home to West Roxbury, arriving between 1:30 and 2 a.m.

Karen Read trial: Read kissed Brian Higgins 2 weeks before O’Keefe’s death

In bombshell testimony Friday, special agent Brian Higgins spoke about his romantic relationship with Karen Read in the weeks before her boyfriend's death.

www.masslive.com

Ok thanks! No specific time for when he clocked in at Canton PD given but I guess if he was way off the Defense would have brought it up. If he got home in West Roxbury between1:30 -2:00 am then he is tracking.

 

[Wishbone]

Ok thanks! No specific time for when he clocked in at Canton PD given but I guess if he was way off the Defense would have brought it up. If he got home in West Roxbury between1:30 -2:00 am then he is tracking.

Well, that's what the media says.Could be right or could be wrong. I would wait for proof from the trial when they show the key card records if they do.

 

[housewife]

Just a quick point on the alcohol because I know people raise it a lot.

This wasn't an actual celebration of anything. BA Jr. was turning 23. Not a big deal for anyone. This is how they drink every weekend, and for some/most of them, probably every night. It's how they live as functional alcoholics. So while the amount of drinking may seem extreme to those who don't live this sort of life, it wasn't anything new for them and probably had a minimal impact on their overall behavior. They function on that amount of alcohol all the time.

I was also struck by the peer pressure to drink by ADULTS. Texts encouraging and taunting people to gather and drink.
It sounded like high-schoolers. I swear I heard some of them use the word "p*u*s*s*y" for someone who wouldn't drink with them as requested.

In my experience, I'm not surprised all the kids were drinking underage inside the home.